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#81804 03/19/05 02:22 AM
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Post deleted.

<small>[ March 20, 2005, 03:01 AM: Message edited by: TiredOut ]</small>

#81805 03/19/05 03:39 AM
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Uh, OK. Not to belittle what you've said, but you don't want to talk about the issues, and just made statements.

So what is it that you are wanting? W/o specifics, it is difficult to offer specific suggestions.

As to telling you you don't understand male bonding, that's just invalidating. Regardless of the bonds of men, the bond between H and W is supposed to supercede that.

Let alone defending the woman he loves.

WHat exactly are you afraid of again? Perhaps a specific example. I am just not seeing what you are saying.

The claims about jumping buildings and stuff, are obviously grandiose, so there must be something else that you're trying to say w/o saying it.

I would just encourage you to share some specifics, and perhaps a specific conversation, so that it's possible to get a better idea of what to suggest.

As to boundaries, well, your H may not have them, but there's little or nothing you can do to force him to have them. YOu can establish boundaries and work within that framework with your H.

If it truly is ADD, has it actually been diagnosed by a therapist or somebody w/o a vested interest in writing some prescriptions? There are some treatments that may help, if your H can handle the side effects.

It really sounds like you and your H need more professional help. IT may be that you have to lay out that you cannot continue in the relationship unless he agress to get some help or see a therapist or whatever.

Anyway, that's the shotgun approach to a first pass at offering something to sink your teeth into.

#81806 03/19/05 04:10 AM
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Jaye Mathisen:
Uh, OK. Not to belittle what you've said, but you don't want to talk about the issues, and just made statements.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Correction. I never said I dont want to talk about 'these' issues. I don't want to talk about issues that are in the past, issues that I all ready talked to a professional marriage counselor about, and issues I have too often found regular folk prefer getting lost in than focusing on current needs of the marriage. When I said we've come a long way, I wan't covering anything over or kidding around. We have.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So what is it that you are wanting? W/o specifics, it is difficult to offer specific suggestions.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I felt it was clear what I wanted, but for clarification please reread the my last post. Most importantly, I could do without judgement or criticism, as I get plenty of that at home, and could use heart and feelings (positive ones).

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">As to telling you you don't understand male bonding, that's just invalidating.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Here, we agree.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Regardless of the bonds of men, the bond between H and W is supposed to supercede that.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Exactly.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Let alone defending the woman he loves.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I can't even imagine him defending me.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">WHat exactly are you afraid of again?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Again, boundary issues.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Perhaps a specific example. I am just not seeing what you are saying.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The lack of boundaries, as explained in my post. Him opening up our door, our phone, our life, to any Tom, [censored] or Harry that helps him feel this male bonding, that puts our family, our children, at risk. That I dont want to give details and re-live it, should not be a requirement to make my point, as the basics are explained.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The claims about jumping buildings and stuff, are obviously grandiose, so there must be something else that you're trying to say w/o saying it.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">(sigh) I've gone to message boards in the past, and all too often folks want every gory detail or be childhood shrinks. :-)No disrespect meant, and I do give some info, but don't see why I have to repeat therefore re-lieve the crap over and over with each new person. Its what makes me stop wanting to reach out or ask for help, when I have to say: "He took my kid away from me once" or "He let some lusty old man be so inappropriate around my (at that time) 14 year old kid (cuz again ... my husband HAS to belive no one would dare do anything bad) ... that the man nearly tried to have sex with her." Happy now? I aint. And no, the guy never had sex with her, and no, my husband is NOT a pervert. I'd like to move forward now to more pressing, current issues.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I would just encourage you to share some specifics, and perhaps a specific conversation, so that it's possible to get a better idea of what to suggest.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Ok, its not as huge as the previously posted things, as I only posted them cuz you wanted info on the past. But today some men came to the door, and I didn't mind that as it was business related anyway. But they started to disagree with something I wanted, something I had even told my husband I wanted, and suddenly in front of them, he changed his mind. Even tho we are paying them, he got on the mens side and tried to change what it was I wanted done (which we are paying for), to what they wanted. Even talked as if I didn't understand what they were saying to me, tho that part I think in his own head he actually thinks you dont 'get it,' when in truth, you have a different opinion. But after 25 years it just makes me feel stupid, tho I know I'm not. So this may all sounds small, but at this point in time I now notice it fast. And it does make me feel 2 inches tall even tho I dont let it get to my intellect. My intelligence tells me I'm not stupid, this part is more about feelings. And the other part (siding with any man who comes to the door or phones, etc) is about safety. That especially needs correcting, and that about boundaries.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">As to boundaries, well, your H may not have them, but there's little or nothing you can do to force him to have them. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I never said force. I want therapeutic help or educatal ideas or recommendations.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> YOu can establish boundaries and work within that framework with your H.

If it truly is ADD, has it actually been diagnosed by a therapist or somebody w/o a vested interest in writing some prescriptions? There are some treatments that may help, if your H can handle the side effects.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">As described in my last post, he won't admit it, so of course its not diagnosed. That doesn't mean he doesn't have it. I've lived with him, his kids have lived with him, he has the symptoms. But he wont take alopathic meds. I have him (finally) on something natural, and it appears to have helped, Not sure to what degree, but I'll take anything I can get.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It really sounds like you and your H need more professional help. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No kidding. Pretty hard to do when he wont go in to the counselor again, as originally posted.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> IT may be that you have to lay out that you cannot continue in the relationship unless he agress to get some help or see a therapist or whatever. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Been there, done that, and did that. We went in, for as long as he would. Once things improved, he felt that was sufficient.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Anyway, that's the shotgun approach to a first pass at offering something to sink your teeth into. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well, thanks, I know you tried and know you meant well, but I kinda got this. Hope someone who has been there/done that and come out the other end successful can give me some "tips," as I'm not one to quit the marriage if I can avoid it, OR I have seen on these message boards somewhere (after I posted here) some doctors/professionals offer personal advice sometimes. That would be nice.

<small>[ March 19, 2005, 03:55 AM: Message edited by: TiredOut ]</small>

#81807 03/19/05 06:42 AM
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by TiredOut:
I'd like to move forward now to more pressing, current issues.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You are living in the situation, so you obviously have more information than anybody here could possibly have. I was not asking for sordid details, nor attempting to cause you to relive some pain, only to get enough of an example to comprehend what you were describing as boundary issues.

I am sorry that I did not telepathically pick up on all the associated known-by-you-but-uknown-to-anybody-around-here details. I'll adjust the tin foil.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
... My intelligence tells me I'm not stupid, this part is more about feelings. And the other part (siding with any man who comes to the door or phones, etc) is about safety. That especially needs correcting, and that about boundaries.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I can see how this would be disconcerting.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">As described in my last post, he won't admit it, so of course its not diagnosed. That doesn't mean he doesn't have it. I've lived with him, his kids have lived with him, he has the symptoms. But he wont take alopathic meds. I have him (finally) on something natural, and it appears to have helped, Not sure to what degree, but I'll take anything I can get.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">While it certainly may be true that your H will not go to a shrink or therapist to get diagnosed, certainly nothing keeps you from going to one and saying, look, here's the specific behaviors, specific conversations, specific responses. As much as you are able, give me your best shot at a diagnosis. A good therapist can give you a pretty good estimation, assuming you're objective.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> IT may be that you have to lay out that you cannot continue in the relationship unless he agress to get some help or see a therapist or whatever. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Been there, done that, and did that. We went in, for as long as he would. Once things improved, he felt that was sufficient. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well, this part I don't quite get. At what point did *you* agree that it was sufficient? Because via whatever mechanism brought the original visits to the MC or IC, what kept it (the original motivation/mechanism) from continuing until the two of you had a mutual agreement that the problem was resolved?


IN any case, since you and I seem to have started off on the wrong foot, I will defer to somebody else wandering by and seeing if they want to pick up this thread.

#81808 03/19/05 08:38 AM
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TiredOut,

Sounds like you have been drinking from a fire hydrant - (faster than you are able). That would make anyone tired out.

I have seen a somewhat recurring theme - here and in my own efforts to get to the place of a satisfactory reciprocative relationship. Yes, I want to meet the needs of my spouse, no - I don't want to remain being the giver the predominant amount of the time - further.

BUT - (the recurring theme) if there is an addiction, or unresolved issue that is growing like an irritating grain of sand to the oyster, full resolution to the one sided relationship seems like it will never get to the clear solution. Always another layer on the grain of sand - especially when attention is directed anywhere close.

I was wondering if you had, over the years, taken the position of "be submissive, he is your husband." Or, let him have his way, he will come around motivated by your kindness? Or think more highly of him than you do yourself? Or "sacrifice for each other, and your time will come?"

Now, out of respect for yourself, come near the end of your proverbial rope?

I don't think that is all bad, if that is the case. When bearings in machinery are overloaded and run dry of grease, they fail. Replacing and regreasing the bearing will mask the problem... the overload.

Keep thinking and trying to understand - yet with a sharper perspective of regard for yourself.

The overloaded giver has usually taken the subserviant position out of a love for the other...but that doesn't work forever.

What will it take to get a third person involved? Professional help, mutual friend that can bring in issues, and at the same time difuse the emotional stuff? Don't know. working on that myself.

Keep thinking, maybe even praying - and searching... read all of Dr. Harley's material you can...

c

#81809 03/20/05 03:20 AM
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Tihs is my last post. Dont get me wrong, I do appreciate the good advice but it is mixed in with accusations of drinking rather than seeing someone is upset, or sarcasm of telepathy instead of seeing a need for privacy and trust. Guess its my mistake as I need to stick with professionals. My counselor never acused me of any of the above, or saying things to make the all ready abused spouse feel it was their fault to begin with, or making them feel worse than they all ready do, all or most marraige responsibilities put upon their shoulders. Then again our counselor tried to get on the same page I was experiencing, understanding that it is natural for the person he is speaking to to sometimes be defensive after all they've been thru, rather than become defensive himself. So the mistake is mine. I have finally learned my lesson of reaching out on message boards. Good bye.

EDITED: I went back and deleted my post. I feel I am being misunderstood and I don't have it in me to keep explaining it to each newcomer, etc. I should have never posted in the first place. Its too complicated a situation for online. Plus 25 years of marriage can't be explained in a simple post, yet that is what's demanded. So online is not for me. But next person who posts like I do, please first take a look at your own marriages and the way you run them (good included), and if that is seeping over to what you think the other person needs, rather than hearing what they are acutlly in need of in their 'efforts' while going thru stress, to explain. Humility and less ego goes a long way to help others. Yes, for myself too. Therefore I need a professional who knows how to guide me with kindness and understanding. Thanks anyway.

<small>[ March 20, 2005, 03:11 AM: Message edited by: TiredOut ]</small>

#81810 03/20/05 09:57 PM
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I understand the desire not to have to go back and dig up what had been buried...

But to CLARIFY: I was not referring to what might be your addiction but his - and not limited to alcohol. I was referring also to the unresolved issues that are wider in scope.

I would hope with a slower reading of my post that might be evident.

With regard to what I have learned that I need to unlearn in the realm of living as a Christian -
I could write quite a bit.

Sorry if I wasn't clear enough.

C


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