Ok I got issues, I got questions. First, we are not married so this is just for his benefit.

1)Can she give oc his last name without his permission or any DNA test? That really pisses me off because we had to go through paternal acknowledgement forms and crap and she just gets to put his name on there without his knowledge, please someone tell me that she can call him whatever she wants but legally his name is hers.

2)What kind of child support can be put on him if he is in school and not working or just not working? The reason I ask this is because he has a full time job and also does comedy, but is planning to quit his job so he can do comedy full time. Guidelines state that if he doesn't make more than $600 per show he doesn't have to file taxes (that's what he said or was told I'm not concrete on that will look it up though).

3)If (BIG IF, IF YOU ASK ME) he is able to convince her to sign something saying she will never file for support will it hold up in court?

He and I have two children of our own and he is also fathering my daughter from a previous relationship, we know he made a mistake, but we have chosen no contact and because of the antics of OW we feel it is better not to be involved in any way.As far as support I'd be willing to give it to her myself if I thought she'd stop there but she won't she only wants him, I don't think she even wants the child, only to hook him. There is a long story behind this.

So any thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks guys.

Lady terry,
1. It depends on state law as to whether she can give oc his name without his permission. Most states allow a woman to give the child any name she wants. So probably she can.

2. As far as income - domestic relations will probably "impute" and income to him, regardless of what he actually earns. They will base it on his earning capability - so take his highest paying job in the past. Whatever he earned there, he will probably be held to that standard. Again, there is some variation according to state law, but typically that is what is done. As to his standup comedy - I believe if he makes over $500 a year at any job, he is required to report it for tax purposes.

3. NO, NO, and again NO. DO not be suckered into any agreement with ow that states she will not file for or collect child support. It is a nationwide concept that a parent cannot bargain away the child's right to collect support, so those kind of agreements NEVER hold up in a court of law. The child support system firmly believes that it is not the parent, but the child who collects child support. ( I know how frustrating that is). But an agreement from ow not to collect simply will not hold up. It is by nature invalid. Even if your h agreed to sign away his rights in exchange for her promise not to collect child support, she could hold him to giving up his rights, but he could not hold her to her promise not to collect

Any more questions, let me know. I'll do the best I can to help.
-cdcollins

also, if you have not filed yet for child support yourself, please do that very quickly. It will reduce the amount ow is entitled to recieve.
-cd

I knew it I knew it! I told him all these things but he didn't believe me. As far as her giving the child his name well that just plain sucks. We did not do testing b/c there was no reason too, but still there was a process to it. If she can just give her child anyones name that she likes well thats just not right. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

I have told him we should just go to her and offer her an amount and pay it whether she wants it or not. But even if we did and she still filed then we could still be stuck paying more right?

One more thing..I've seen in divorce cases where the NCP makes alot of money the CS is excessive because they are doing something where they (I mean the courts) are determining what the child's lifestyle would have been had the parents stayed together. Well if they were never married or lived together or anything but he starts making (he only does ok right now with comedy) alot of money do those same rules apply? I'm not talking Eddie Murphy bucks just a meager comedian who still gets paid by check but not from the same place everytime. Am I making sense? Right now he makes about 300$ for Wed-Sat and sometimes its cash and sometimes its a check but not a payroll check. I know what I'm trying to say here but it's not coming out very well. So I'll stop here for now and maybe when I get it together I'll ask. Thank you so much for your help we were reading one of your replies to a poster when we decided to post ourselves.

Lady Terry,
It doesn't matter how he gets paid by check, cash, or magic beans. It will still count as income. And yes, it is true that most states operate under the theory of providing the child with a lifestyle similar to what he/she would have enjoyed had the family been intact. They do not care that your h and ow had no family or marriage. It is irrelevant. Some states use what is called a "shared income" formula, while others use strict percentages. There is a lot of variation from state to state, with some being kinder than others. In just about every circumstance, however, it is wise to enact a faux separation so that the betrayed spouse can file for child support, which then reduces the amount that the other woman is entitled to get. In some states, if the betrayed spouse files AFTER the ow does, she loses the opportunity to impace the amount. Other states go by birth order. Just depends. Anyway, when you are ready with questions, fire away. Child support issues are my thing.
with love,
cdcollins

And yes, it is true that you could go offer her an agreed-upon amount, but that she could always come back later and file to get the state-set amount. If there is any reason for her to want to avoid the court system, however, it might be worthwhile to approach her. You may just get a bit of a break. Keep in mind, though, that you MUST keep a paper trail of what you have paid and make sure it is clearly designated as CHILD SUPPORT and that ow acknowleges that it is too. OTherwise you could get stung if she claims it was just a "gift" from the ffather. I have seen that happen.
-cd

Gosh, I really ought to try to put all my thoughts into one post!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Depending on what state you live in, you may not have to pay arrears on any child support prior to the time ow decides to file for it. For example, here in PA, child support is only retroactive to the date of the filing, not to the child's birthdate, so it would be worth it NOT to give ow a dime until she goes to court - under the theory that the longer you hold out, the less you have to pay. In other states, it would be wiser to pay some child support right away so that you didn't get smacked with outrageous arrears. What state are you in?
-cd

cd,
I have a CS question. If the state has a percentage guideline of 28% for 2 children and the father is a;ready paying 24% for one child, how is the CS computed for second child? Does the second child get 4%? Or does the judge order 24% for that child and then it is then dependant upon the father to get the initial order reduced, or what? Thanks, tew

I have to caution you that I am not from a state that uses the percentage system. BUt from what I have seen in my research on child support in other states that DO use the percentage system, the way it works is that second child support order is based on the amount that is left over from the father's pay once child support for the first child has been taken out. It varies from state to state, but generally the second child gets a smaller percentage than a first child, and it is calculated from what is left over from the pay after the first child's support is taken out. Now, there has been some recent developments in some Western states in that some courts have held that all children are entitled to equal protection under child support guidelines, and thus in those limited areas, a second child would be entitled to the same amount of support as a first child. It works the same here, in PA, where if there are two children, the court calculates what the father should be paying for two children and then divides the amount between the two kids. I hope that doesn't sound confusing. At any rate, the short point is that in most states, the first child gets the lion's share, and subsequent children get less, although there is a movement to change that, but the change is slow in coming. If you tell me what state you are talking about, I could give you a better answer.
-cdcollins

Ga, thx. tew

tew,
From reading the georgia child support statutes it appears that the amount would be divided between all children to whom support is being paid. The georgia guidelines are somewhat interesting, as they are more flexible than other percentage based guidelines I have looked at. They go as follows:
1 child - 17-23% of non-custodial parents income
2 children - 23 - 28%
3 children 25-32%
4 children 29-35%
5 children 31-37%

ANyway, it appears that you would take all children for whom child support has been filed and divide between equally. keep in mind that children for whom child support has not been filed STILL do not figure into the calculation whatsoever.
hope that helped
-cdcollins

CD--my state is similar to GA. So you mean b/c my H and I have an intact M the ONLY child figured for CS is going to be his OC? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> We have one now and a second due soon--his OC was born this past summer--I know that they are NOT going to calculate my income for his OC's CS, but are they not going to give us any credit for our two Ds? (one born years before the OC and the second just months later--his way of recommitting to me and our M <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> He wants to dodge CS altogether but I have convinced him NOT to waste our time and money--I know he can't win this one nor do I think it is right to turn his back on his own child.
I think the OW is going to use his last name for his OC--frankly I don't have a problem w/this--it IS his child after all and a child should have his or her father's name and financial support IMO

Hi Mobe,
Sadly enough, generally the child support calculations DO NOT take into account the children that exist besides the oc unless a separate child support claim is filed on their behalf. Children for whom child support has not been filed are invisible as far as the system is concerned. That is why I promote the idea of "faux separations" so that the children of the marriage can be considered in the calculations. Like I said previously, there is a movement in the legal world to change that view, but unfortunately, change is slow in coming, and at this moment, the trend seems to have stalled somewhat. I'm very sorry to tell you that your children will probably not count in the eyes of child support collectors unless you too file for child support. It's a very unfair and confiscatory system. The child support laws do not care if your children starve as long as the child support is paid.

If there is anything I can do to help, please let me know.
-cdcollins

and just for the record, I do believe that parents owe a duty of support to their offspring - I just feel it should be a fair and just system that takes into account the other children as well. That's all.
-cd

thank you cd, it's good to have you on the boards, I have been up and down the arkansas (thats where I am) child support boards and am getting nowhere.

I don't know who said it but I don't like the idea of her giving her kid his last name. I have a daughter from a previous relationship and she has my last name. Her father has never paid a dime, I have never asked him too. I'm fine without him and his money, and though I'm sure he would like her to have it, he does see her sometimes and I know he loves her, he doesn't deserve to share a name with her.
Two, where oc is concerned OW was going to abort until she realized he wasn't going to leave me. Even now, she never has this child with her, last time I saw her she was drunk as a skunk and driving through the streets checking to see if he was home. He told her he did not want any more children when they talked about other options, but she had it anyway to spite him or maybe because she thought he'd change his mind when oc was born. Well she was wrong, so she has to deal with decisions she made on her own, that's my opinion.

Anyway CD, I'll tell him what you say and I'll write back with more questions I'm sure, it seems the dreadful cs thing is never over, unfortunately.

Thanks again,
Bridgette

Again, thanks. tew

Ok, told you I'd be back CD. Question, when I file for support for my two kids will we have to go to court. He is deathly afraid of child support just because he will become a "marked man" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> and even though I have told him all the reasons we should do it and he's read them here I'm afraid he'll thinking I'm going after him and not doing it to help? So what's the process in Arkansas? Thanks so much for all your help.
B.Bass

Lady-terry,
Most child support hearings take place in front of a hearing master. Sometimes the hearing master is an attorney and sometimes it is just somebody appointed by the court to handle such matters. Tell your guy that it would jsut be a matter of showing up and agreeing to give you the highest possible award of child support that the master recommends. After all, the child support checks will come right to you, and therefor right back in his pocket. You don't lose a dime of it, and it definitely works to prevent ow from getting the lion's share of his paycheck. You have to be very reassuring to your h that this is just part of a team effort by the both of you, and you both must be strong and confident and committed to putting on a "good show" for the child support demons. and if he feels strange about having you file for child support, perhaps you can point out how strange he would feel if the ow was awarded the primary part of his wages, without even taking your own children into consideration. Trust me, that is what will happen. Explain to him that while this does seem a rather outrageous tactic, it is the only way to protect your children's rights. Additionally, it is a very effective technique, one I used myself and one that I have helped some others put into action. Has not failed yet. Around the law office they call it the "donna sue screw the child support system plan." My middle name is not sue, but I guess the stafff thought it sounded nice that way.

I am not immediately familiar with the arkansas process but can access the court rules and statutes online for you if you like. But it will be a day or two until I get to it. Tonight, I am going out for a nice dinner date with my new guy, and must make every effort to look smoking hot. Or at least as close to it as I can manage, hahaha.

Anyway, will get back to you about arkansas law in particular. What specifically do you want to know about the laws there?
-cd

Ok, correct me if I'm wrong, would a 'faux separation' be considered fraud? What happens if the OW were to find out about this and take you back to court or notify the proper parties of this? It sounds to me like this could be a huge risk to take and may backfire on you if you went through with it. You can always file for a modification if you need to, so why take the risk of getting caught? Seems too risky to me, and a little shady at that.

Tara

Moved on,
Hmmmmm....is filing for a faux separation more "shady" than taking a large portion of a man's paycheck for one child while the children of the marriage are near starving? I'm not sure how most people see it, but I can tell you that when my four children were eating ramen noodles and eggs for a week because ow was taking 55% of my h's wages for one child, I really did not have a problem with the moral aspect of it. And as to fraudulent, I was always very upfront with the domestic relations people about the fact that my h and I were still living in the same house. I just told them that we were separating because we were having problems, but that since neither of us had enough money to live solo, we were splitting the house for the time being. And if my idea of "separation" included sleeping in the same bed with my h, if it included having absolutely no real issues whatsoever, I figure that was MY business,eh? Sure, on a ethical level I would have much preferred to do something other than, shall we say "mislead" the child support system. But I did not have a lot of other choices, and the system certainly would NOT modify the amount. Usually men are stuck with it unless they can show extremely devestating changes in circumstances, and apparantly having to support four children born in the marriage doesn't really count. Moving On, you have to understand that I never took anything from the oc, nor did I take anything my children were not entitled to have to begin with. I ALWAYS wanted my h to provide support for the oc, just not in the outrageous amount the court ordered. My h was brining home 1200 per month, and child support was taking damn near half of it for one child. What were we supposed to live on? Not only that, but ow got state funded medical and food stamps, in addition to child support. Meanwhile we qualified for NOTHING b/c H made "roo much" and they did not factor in the child support he was paying out to ow. This kind of thing happens, sadly enough, ALL THE TIME. All my filing for child support did was protect my children's interest. All it did was force the child support system to give my children the same portion of their father's wages that they would be entitled to if we split up. Anyway, as with any defense tactic, there are going to be people who look down their noses with disapproval. Short answer is, sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do when your back is against the wall. If you don't like my little plan, you are certainly not under any obligation to enact it yourself. But save the finger-wagging for somebody else, b/c it is wasted on me.
-cd