I read on a post a where you and Cat were going back and forth. Here is the quote:

"But if a woman feels she DOES want to continue than MMs should do the right thing financially and morally."

My question is just what Catnip's was at the time, Why does the woman get to call all the shots, if she can decide to keep it why can't he decide not to be involved?

Please know I am not starting an argument but have always believed both Men and Women have a right to choose. It's ultimately a woman's decision whether or not to have a baby but does that really mean that what she decides is what everyone should adjust their lives around. I'm not feeling that at all.
Bridgette

Bridgette

Hi LT
That's a good question, Like Cat said befor women are in control and if she's manipulating like the chicken head, My H was involved. They soley make decision based on what benefit them and them alone.

"Manipulating like the chicken head"??? Malc, I have no idea what that means, but I think it is definitely something I will add to my collection of interesting things to say at parties. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
-cd

LOL CD, I think in that capacity, "Chicken Head" is an "ethnic" term pretty much meaning dumb/stupid/psycho broad. At least that's what I intend it to mean whenever I use the term. Correct me if I'm wrong MALC.

NC4U

"Like the chicken head" LOL--that's funny.

Well Ladyterry--if the U.S. government followed your argument there would be A LOT of men dodging CS pyments based on "she (W, GF, OW) wanted this child, I didn't." So, no, it's not fair per se, but there does exist A CHILD no matter HOW it was conceived and it does have a mother AND a father no matter what the father's situation or how much he did or didn't want a child.

In ancient Rome after giving birth the mother would place the child on the floor before the father--if he picked the child up it would live, if he let it sit on the ground the mother was obligated to put it outside to die of exposure--perhaps that would be a more "fair" system? It gave fathers the right to determine whether a child had a life or didn't.

My H's cheating has sickened me beyond words, I think I'm having a harder time w/recovery and forgiveness than a lot of ladies here. But it would sicken me even more to aid and abet him in dodgeing his responsibilities to his own flesh and blood. Did he use protection? NO. Did he choose to have sex outside our M w/an OW? YES. Should he bear the consequences of his actions? YES IMO. That's why although I adore CDCollins, her answer to Angelica really got me--she was coaching Angelica as to how to pawn off Angelica's H's child on another man, xOW's xH. How irresponsible and cowardly can people get--Angelica if you see this I hope you don't go that direction!!!

Tim McGraw song "red rag top" "you do what you do and you pay for your sins"--Ladyterry to me that includes doing what is right by an innocent child you helped create even if you made it clear you didn't want your W/GF/OW to continue her pregnancy.

And as furious as I am w/my H right now, I would be too sickened to stay w/him if he didn't do the right thing by his child. So you see I would NEVER enable him to ditch his responsibilities as a father as so many men have done over the centuries.

I think we are lucky in that DNA testing proves beyond any shadow of a doubt that a child's father is a child's father--no doubt people in our situations used to always wonder if they were paying for a child that wasn't really theirs. Now we can know FOR CERTAIN so that makes it a lot more fair.

mobe,,,, sorry to jump in here but i wanted to try and show another path here. what happens when a married woman becomes pregnant from a married man has her child and both marriages remain intact. is it in the best interest of the c to be thrown back and forth from family to family every other weekend. these little children have no idea what the emotional difficulties of the adults are in this type of circumstance. i am talking about c's produced by an affair not c's who are the victims of divorce. the social stigmas are completely different in these 2 situations.

if the w/woman's h is willing to stay in the m and he is willing to raise that c why would you throw conflict on the c with the second family. and likewise in this scenerio the w/man's w stays in their m what is wrong with the man paying his cs and leaving the other couple alone.

surely if the c's father was to force take visitations his mother would undoubtedly have problems and arguements in her m from a flahback of the spouse. nad vise versa with the other m. these conflicts would cause decension in the m and could quite possibly cause bias towards the c.

the whole point is the wellfare of the c. i agree that the bio dad should always be financialy responsible. but if the c can be raised in a loving 2 parent home with no interference would that not be the best thing for him/her? this in no way incinuates that the bio dad is shirking his responsibilities. on the other hand he can be considered as sacrificing his physical rights to his c for the best interest of the c.

you see all the time where bio dads start visitation as an "i want to see the kid because i have to pay". this tpye of relationship is not sincere from the start any usually fades away in time leaving a c with feelings of rejection and abandonment with no explination why. that to me doesn't seem fair to an innocent chaild.

i hope this all makes sense as i had a hard time finding these words tonight.

I agree w/you pops 100%!! I am talking about an
OC born into a divorcing family or an OC born to a single mom. However the issue is a MOW because a single OW would simply get the CS and there would be NO WAY the MM father could fight it. So MMs who don't pay CS to an OC born during a D would basically get off on a technicality. Plus only some states use this "presumption" rule so in other states they would have to pay anyway. For example your situation where your M is intact but the OM pays CS could not happen in FL where I live unless it was uncontested by the
OM. I do think that if an intact couple accept CS then they are opening the door to the OM seeking visitation. It is probably better for the OC to be raised by his mom and adoptive dad w/out XOM visitation, but XOM does have a right to visitation--and who is to say that couldn't work out? Something like 40% of all U.S. families include step and half siblings and there is visitation, joint custody etc. As long as all parties really love the child and can cooperate the child might be better served being shared. Isn't momo5 doing something like that w/her xOM?

Hi Everyone

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Chicken Head" is an "ethnic" term pretty much meaning dumb/stupid/psycho broad. At least that's what I intend it to mean </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

You are correct NC4U, and they will also stoop to any degree to get what they want. I agree with you POPS about causing problems.

Mobe I logged on to a site where people are told to take more than one DNA test, because some test have been fabricated depending on the stakes.

So depending on circumstances, it depends on what a person is willing to sacrifice, some people will go to the extent of paying for a fabricated DNA test to get what they want. I'll find the site and post it ok.

Mobe: I agree with your feeling of being "sick" at what our H's have done.

As far as CD's advice and the attorneys we've hired....there are some issues at hand but basically my H's name is not on the birth certicate...WHY? OW told him that she put her H on the birth certificate - again WHY??? And I don't believe in FL that you can just put someone's name on a birth certificate. The attorneys say that the certificate has to be signed by whoever's name is on there.

In addition - they were not a happy home that my H broke up as you suggested earlier - they were separating at the time my H met her - her H thought she was a loose woman (go figure so my H jumped on that one <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> ). But in a divorce, children must be listed and accounted for...That's just a simple fact.

Our attorneys are just requesting based on these two things those documents and the presumed paternity. Wouldn't you assume that if she was married to the guy at the time and his name was on the birth certificate that maybe he IS the father? Just a question....

Anyway, we are all prepared for this to come down to a paternity test. And my H will take the test and we'll deal with the results. If he is the bio-dad then cs will be paid and we'll figure out how to deal with that financially.

I am torn truthfully about how I feel about the oc. On one hand I feel like the child (IF) if it my H's being part of our family - our kids at home love babies and they would accept the kid into our life. However, on the other hand, I feel like that child could easily be raised by a single mom - women do it all the time and as long as cs is paid then we are doing our obligation.

I don't feel any obligation to raise her child. But, funny, that I'm raising my H's child from a previous relationship. Is it the fact that this child was born of an affair that I can't deal with? Possibly. However, at this time I'm just gonna leave that alone and time will tell me if it's his and where we go from there.

I'm not even sure if the ow would want me in the kids life and truthfully....we both know (you know it and I know it) that it's not a good idea for a MM to have another life with an ow and /oc without the current wife being involved. Not sure if that came out right but I'm sure you wouldn't want your H at the ow's house playing daddy with oc without YOU involved. Right? So, for now, again, I'm gonna leave it alone. Time will tell.

No harm done, no offenses taken, all is good in our happy MB world. We're all in a SUCKY <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> situation. We shouldn't be on this board at all...but we are and we all have to deal with it in our own way.

Take care girl....Angelia

Hi Mobe, here is the information, I was telling you about.

BETTER to use money orders, checks or Income Deduction Order to paying child support.

Do not use blood group type testing alone, it can be used for limited exclusions. 1Man prefers to DEMAND DNA Paternity tests using an impartial third party lab (1Man has received reports from men alleging their DNA reports had been altered to name them as the biological father. In one case, there were three DNA tests done before the whole truth was discovered.

This means it would be a defensive strategy to select a genetic lab that meets your states accrediting guidelines. The American Association of Blood Banks (AABB) does not have any relationship with your state or child support agency. The paternity test results are prima facie evidence in many states!

IF you're innocent then tests from two or more genetic labs should report the same results. If the results are different, somebody may be altering your final report to create the illusion of paternity.

If this happened to you, it may be considered as "conspiracy to commit fraud". SEEK IMMEDIATE help from a competent civil or tort lawyer, notify the local District Attorney in writing and the State Attorney General. If this type of fraud and cover up happens to one man, it is a danger to the public at large!

DNA test results have been consistently used to free the innocent man accused of rape or murder. Paternity Fraud and Child Support Fraud is FINANCIAL RAPE! If you're innocent of the alleged crime, then decency and humanity warrants your freedom!

If the DNA paternity test results indicate that you are excluded as the biological father, immediately seek to vacate or set aside all child support orders, arrearage and obtain a court order of non-paternity. Get your name removed from all of the minor child's records including birth certificate, medical records, school records, State's Putative father registry and anything else.

DO NOT ACCEPT verbal agreements from anyone, that everything is OK to leave "as is" with you named as responsible for child support for the mother's child. You can be stripped financially, held in contempt, and even jailed for non-compliance with a court order by some judges. It actually happened to a non-bio Dad in Ohio! He's suing for fraud and restitution since Ohio passed a law in 2000 that "FREEs" the non-Dad from the child support money trap.

There are double standards in child support fraud. The Law demands restitution for fraud involving DHR, Child Support Enforcement, social security, Medic-Aid, Temporary Assistance for Needy Families (TANF) and other public assistance programs.

The mother will be required to payback any fraud against a public or private agency -- but she can keep the money stolen from the wrong man?

Could a child's life could be at risk for medical needs, when the duped Dad does not match genetics in an emergency room?

NATIONWIDE Paternity FRAUD ALERT -- (I NEED A DNA TEST )Warn all males, especially teenagers. Tell them DO NOT SIGN any documents in CALIFORNIA nor any other state relating to paternity (especially Hospital Paternity Acknowledgement Forms) until after he has DNA proof of biological paternity from an impartial genetic LAB: 10 or more genetic markers, typical paternity Index of 1000 to 1 and probability of paternity greater than 99.95%. * Danger* We have several men reporting false positive paternity tests with the local child support agency in several states. Plus these men are saying that the family courts are refusing to allow an independent DNA paternity test, even at the guy's expense. Why?? See the Suggested LifeSaver Points!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://stop.paternityfraud.com/
scroll down to <I need a DNA test> then click on <lifesaver points>
I hope this will be useful.

Nah Mobe, you have not connvinced me. I know what is the law and why it is the way it is, and I'm not trying to change it for that very reason. But I still can't grasp the concept that women hold all the cards and everyone else involved just play what they get dealt. If OW had had an abortion and H really wanted that baby there wouldn't be a thing he could do about it, it's her decision, so if he says he doesn't want it and she decides to have it, he should just go along? Because a child needs a father? Because he made a mistake? Because he didn't use protection? Well OW made a mistake too, and she didn't protect herself, now she's decided she wants the baby, so she got what she wanted. What she won't get is a lot of support from the other side just because she decided she wanted to have a baby.

But I do understand the law, and technically you're right, but I'll find a way around that.
Bridgette

Mobe: Just wondering why you are so insistent that you be in your oc's life? I think it's admirable but if your husband doesn't want to be then why are you pushing it?

Is it to punish him?

You also said that you would never ENABLE him to ditch his responsibilities? What are his responsibilities - to provide for his child.....provide what? If you're already paying CS then you are providing.

I agree with Bridgette in her posting that if the OW did want an abortion then her H or any of our H's for that matter wouldn't have a say in it at all. But because the OW decided to go through with the child then everyone has to play by her rules. Mobe, in your case if the OW had decided to have an abortion would you be preaching to her about her moral responsibility?

Just wondering.... please do not be offended...CD says you make a good debater so, your opinions please!

I am not convinced either. See, the decision of the OW to have a child conceived by a MM does not just affect her, the child, and the MM. It affects the MM's family. What started out as a decision between two people-i.e. the affair- by the single OW and the MM-- is now a problem for the MM's family to deal with.

what if it is better for the MM's family or wife or marriage or children of marriage to not have contact? Why is it presumed that contact for the OC will always be beneficial to that child? I don't agree. I think it is a sick system for the OC to deal with. I think it is sick to think the oC has to deal with various people's hurts as a result of the selfishness of OW and MM. I think that is not a place to encourage a child to go into and grow and feel nurtured.

Further, I am auite sure, with many OW, they do not have a positive feeling toward MM's wife. They will not act as if that woman is a great stepmom to that child. I am quite sure, as well, I would be hard pressed, as other BS may feel, to say nice things about the OW. Why?Because she didn't care about my kids when she was screwing my H and sleeping in my bed and acting as if she was a friend to my family.She lied to my kids over and over.And I have no desire to have her around my kids, ever.They likewise have no desire to be around a woman who has harmed the woman they call Mom.

I don't think it is natural for all their relationships to be so cozy. I don't liken stepparent families to be the same as a family blended through adultery. I think it borders on dysfunctional, Mom of five no direct accusations, please. In stepparent families, at least the families started with a relationship having been ended.ANd even in those cases, the children also don't get along usually well and marriages are often doomed even in the best cases.Why? Because some children are hurt. I think in cases where adultery bred another child, that child and children of the other family do not benefit from this blending. I think it is confusing and odd.

I know legally that child is owed CS by the father. But if that father had wanted to give the child up for adoption, as my H had wanted, he had no choice. He had to accept the wishes of the mother.

In my case, the OW could not afford to pay for her own care, rent, food, etc.But she decided she wanted a child so much, she would keep the child, for her own needs.

I resent that. I waited a long time to choose to have children, while married, because I didn't feel emotionally or economically ready. Then, when I did, I became ill with a chronic disabling condition. I could have gotten pregnant,but chose not to, and thought I never would have kids, because I didn't want to be a mother who could not provide for her kids. NOt economically, not emotionally, not be able to nurture them in the way I wanted to. Despite desperately wanting children, I wanted to be a mother to my kids that they deserved, that I owed my unborn children. I didn't have kids for 7-8 years after I wanted them.

IF OW would only think in these terms, these children would have been adopted out. Every child deserves an intact two parent family. But just because the oW wants my H to be her child's father, doesn't mean I should change my life for her and the oC. I have plenty to do to protect what my H and OW have ruined for my kids. ANd I won't do something that hurts my kids.

enough said.

See that's what I wanted to say, but she said it better than me. So Ditto!!!So good to be understood and not feel like what I'm feeling is wrong or that I should change. Thank you.

I wish I could think through all my thought before I click reply but I must add that I have decided to give the "chicken head" her child support just so that everytime she gets the check she knows its coming from me too. I know her [type] well enough to know it will hurt her more to only get the money when she really wants him. And it will just eat her up that I am helping to support her kid. Chances are when he quits his job I'll be supporting him for awhile and probably paying anything he owes so if he can't come up with cs guess where it's coming from? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
Yeah, I think I can do that.

Well I was never convince about any of this Contact with OC and etc.

I agree with LT, Angela, UHW 100% I've said this all along women are in control they make major decision concerning OC it doesn't matter who it hurts.

angela,,, you should not confuse raising a child of your spouse from a previous marriage to that of raising a child from an affair. it is the difference between blended and disfunctional. blended means that all the cards are on the table when you go into the marriage. the disfunctional family in these instances are the ones created through deception. not that a disfunctional family can't survive this and even thrive. but that is unfortunately the exception rather then the majority. mo5 is proof that all can live in somewhat of a congeanial fashion. they have their problems as she has stated but they all try to do the best for the child. they will also undoubtably have more serious roads to travel as the child grows older but they all seem to be centered on the young ones best interest.

as far as women holding all the cards. they most certainly do as far as whether or not to abort, adobt or keep the child. but i feel the man holds the cards in regards to whether he persues an active roll in the childs life. he most likely will be responsible for paying cs but that doesn't mean he has to persue visitation. just as a woman has her own reasons for her choice a man may have his own reasons for his decision. sometmes it doesn't make him less of a man but actually more. you have to look at each situation on it's own merits.

for me i would like to see om pay his cs and stay away. fh says this may not happen. we will see and i will either adapt or not. what ever the outcome all cards must be placed on the table.

Pops: Thank you so much for your reply.
I guess somehow in my head I was confused about those two situations - and your posting was right on the mark.

I also have issues in my head. I am caucasion and my H is african american. I have stereotypes (and it is a stereotype because there are many men in many different races that choose not to be in their child's life) in my head of the man never being around to raise the kids so in my head I have been struggling with this oc thing.

Like I said, we currently raise his son from a previous relationship and we raise my daughter from my previous marriage. We are a truly blended family and no it's not always easy but we have 10 years into this and we work at it daily.

I like this.....

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> just as a woman has her own reasons for her choice a man may have his own reasons for his decision. sometmes it doesn't make him less of a man but actually more. you have to look at each situation on it's own merits.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">His reasons for not wanting anything to do with ow and oc are because of our family. He made a horrible mistake but he loves us - and he wants to be with us. He doesn't feel like it would be beneficial to our family to have her or the oc a part of our lives. Right or wrong in some people's eyes that's his choice.

Anyway, thanks again for responding. I appreciate your words. We are just waiting for the courts. We are prepared to pay cs if the oc is his. We are also working at repairing our marriage. The recovery is the most important thing for me right now.

We are reading, doing our homework through questionnaires and other exercises we've found and we're talking. We do lots of talking - we also do lots of crying and yelling but in the end, we know that we love each other and we want to be together. We both know he made a mistake. We both know that he finished his A long before I found out. We both know that there were lies and deceipt which are very difficult to get over but we both know that recovery is first and foremost in our minds.

I wanted to add this... I recently was talking to Stacia that you don't realize on this board what ethnicity someone is and this board is helpful to everyone regardless of their skin color. We are all in a horrible situation and don't deserve to be here. I hope that the help and assistance won't stop because of an ethnic issue. I am not here in any sense to start a flaming war....I am here because my H had an A that potentially produced an oc. I am here to build my marriage and to recover. I am here because God led me to be here. God directed me to this website months before I found out and I believe now that He did so in preparation for d-day. God had wanted me to be protected and he did it through you wonderful people on this board!

Pops: Thank you so much for your reply.
I guess somehow in my head I was confused about those two situations - and your posting was right on the mark.

I also have issues in my head. I am caucasion and my H is african american. I have stereotypes (and it is a stereotype because there are many men in many different races that choose not to be in their child's life) in my head of the man never being around to raise the kids so in my head I have been struggling with this oc thing.

Like I said, we currently raise his son from a previous relationship and we raise my daughter from my previous marriage. We are a truly blended family and no it's not always easy but we have 10 years into this and we work at it daily.

I like this.....

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> just as a woman has her own reasons for her choice a man may have his own reasons for his decision. sometmes it doesn't make him less of a man but actually more. you have to look at each situation on it's own merits.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">His reasons for not wanting anything to do with ow and oc are because of our family. He made a horrible mistake but he loves us - and he wants to be with us. He doesn't feel like it would be beneficial to our family to have her or the oc a part of our lives. Right or wrong in some people's eyes that's his choice.

Anyway, thanks again for responding. I appreciate your words. We are just waiting for the courts. We are prepared to pay cs if the oc is his. We are also working at repairing our marriage. The recovery is the most important thing for me right now.

We are reading, doing our homework through questionnaires and other exercises we've found and we're talking. We do lots of talking - we also do lots of crying and yelling but in the end, we know that we love each other and we want to be together. We both know he made a mistake. We both know that he finished his A long before I found out. We both know that there were lies and deceipt which are very difficult to get over but we both know that recovery is first and foremost in our minds.

I wanted to add this... I recently was talking to Stacia that you don't realize on this board what ethnicity someone is and this board is helpful to everyone regardless of their skin color. We are all in a horrible situation and don't deserve to be here. I hope that the help and assistance won't stop because of an ethnic issue. I am not here in any sense to start a flaming war....I am here because my H had an A that potentially produced an oc. I am here to build my marriage and to recover. I am here because God led me to be here. God directed me to this website months before I found out and I believe now that He did so in preparation for d-day. God had wanted me to be protected and he did it through you wonderful people on this board!

Hugs to all

Angelia

oops double posting! sorry!