I stumbled upon this site while looking for information on child support. I read a few posts and went away, but for days I’ve been stewing over something that I read. JustAGuy1 wrote:

“Given that, the child deserves the love and support (emotional and financial) of a father. I would hope that any father gives to all his children the deserved love and support.”

I feel I have something to contribute to this board, in the form of a point of view from the other side.

A few years ago when I was single, I dated a woman for eighteen months. I never considered it a serious relationship, but she was always available for sex so I didn’t exactly run from her. I never once considered pregnancy a possibility because I’d questioned her closely about birth control before we began having sex and she assured me that she was on birth control pills. During the last six months of our relationship she began pushing harder and harder for a commitment, dreaming of rings and wedding bells. I had no intention of ever marrying her and told her so. It didn’t seem to get through to her, as she just increased her efforts to get me to propose.

I was stupid. I continued a sexual relationship with her right up until the time she told me she was pregnant. She made herself so available and I didn’t have anything better to do, I suppose. After she became pregnant she was determined that we’d marry and I’d be a father to her child. I consulted an attorney and told her that I’d pay child support after DNA testing, but that was as far as my obligation went. I had no interest in her or any child of hers. She hounded me for months, insisting I go on doctor’s visits and be present for the birth of her child. I ignored all of her demands. She called when she went into labor and I listened as she left the message on my answering machine, then went out the door on a date with the woman I later married. I saw the baby once when he was about a month old. She was waiting outside my workplace and demanded I at least look at him. I felt nothing.

I got married less than a year after my ex-girlfriend’s son was born. My wife and I are now the parents of a beautiful two year old daughter. During the time I’ve been married, my ex-girlfriend has never ceased to demand I be a part of her son’s life. I recently received a letter by certified mail from her attorney offering to cut the amount of child support I pay in half if I’d agree to visit her son once a month and buy him birthday and Christmas presents. Of course the visitation was to be on her terms – supervised, at her house or a place of her choosing, in her presence. She stipulated that my wife and child were not to be at the visitations. I shredded the letter and never replied. As attractive as paying less money seemed, I know if I were to accept her offer, she would never cease her efforts to get me involved with her again. She’s not as much interested in me being a father to her son as she is keeping me in her life. I’d rather pay the money and not have to tolerate her. I despise her.

I may sound cold and uncaring, but I’m not. I’m just very bitter. I never wanted a child with that woman. When my daughter was born, I realized what it means to be a father. I’d die for my child. Nothing and nobody on this earth could ever keep me from her. But I don’t feel that way about the child born to my ex-girlfriend. My wife and I made a decision together to have a child, one that was born of the love between us and I am fully committed to our daughter. I feel I was tricked into fathering the child born to my ex-girlfriend. She claims to this day that she took her birth control pills faithfully and never missed one, but I’m not buying that. The way I look at it, the DNA tests showed that there was a 99.9% chance I was the father of her child. Birth control pills are 98% effective. Therefore if the pill actually failed her, maybe there is a possibility I’m NOT the father of her child. After all, the margin of error DOES exist! She proved that by getting pregnant.

All I know is that I resent each penny of the extortion money I have to send her each month. I think how I could use that money for my wife and child and yet I’ll be paying for eighteen years for something I never wanted. It’s strictly no contact for me, I wish her child well and I hope and pray that one day she’ll find a man who’ll marry her and be a father to her child. I have no interest in the position myself.

So, JustAGuy1, maybe every child *does* deserve the love and support of a father. But the sad fact of the matter is, life doesn’t happen that way. Very few of us get what we deserve. And maybe that’s a good thing for some, because if women that deliberately get pregnant and use the child to try to trap an unwilling man got what they deserved, I think they wouldn’t like it too much!

When I first saw your name I was thinking 'is someone trying to use a play on my screen name?' I realize i may get flamed to a burnt crisp for this one but I don't care, I'm going to say it anyway: the first thing that came to mind when I read your post was SELFISH [censored] COWARD. Sorry but it's the truth. I just feel that it is something totally different when a married man chooses NO CONTACT in order to protect a wife and family that were already in tact BEFORE the other child was born or conceived. Both you and your exgirlfriend were single and when she started pushing for more than you wanted to and knew that you could give you should have BACKED AWAY THEN! But oh no, because the woman was available for you whenever you had the urge you USED this woman for a booty call and then have the nerve to complain that she is EXTORTING money from you? I say this for all WS as well but you know DAMN WELL where babies come from and NOTHING short of ABSTINENCE is 100% so if you TRULY wanted nothing to happen then you should have took it upon yourself to WRAP IT UP buddy! I don't know HOW many times I had to drill/scream that into WH head but I'm saying the same thing to you. It is not HER child it is YOUR child too! As much as I don't LIKE it, I won't DENY that OC IS H's child but exOW and I would NEVER be able to get along...even for the sake of the child...so there can be no peaceful contact for H as long as we are married. I'm sure your W appreciates your devotion to her and your daughter, but that child by your exGF came FIRST. I just don't see the comparison. I swear if I didn't think I would literally KILL exOW (we have fought before and YES, I hate her that much) I would have no problem with contact with OC. I wish everything were as easy to discard as children because people just don't want them. "Oh I like having sex, especially when it's always available. Damn the consequences. Oh, there's a kid now? So what, I don't want it, YOU take responsibility for BOTH our actions." To me it's almost like saying "Oh i love these credit cards with the $50,000 limits--especially when I can buy EVERYTHING I want on them whenever I want to cause they are always available. Damn the fact that I can't afford any of this stuff. Oh, they have an 18.9% interest rate and now they want a monthly payment? So what, I don't want to pay for my actions, it's the credit card companie's fault for thinking I was mature enough to make intelligent decisions about what's right and wrong." <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> I'm annoyed because now I am seeing Hubby in a different light and I am actually feeling sorry for OC. I'm done. Go ahead and flame away.

You sound way to proud of the fact that you used a woman and created a child and dumped the child, I wonder how proud your child will be when he or she grows up.
seems the maturity should have come before you started using the woman. I would guess on both parts.
I would bet in time, this woman if she doesnt already would teach her child that you were just not a good person and that he or she has many people who love and support her son.

I also think it is natural a mother would want her child to know his father, , only your right about one thing sperm does not make you a father or a good father for that matter.
extortion, pretty strong word, just because you didnt know how to take extra precaution and now have the responsibility of child support. So she was on the pill, big deal, You were playing with her emotions and using her and knew it. You also knew you should take extra precautions to protect yourself not only from pregnancy but from disease as well.

so I am not sure hat point your trying to make, but you just proved ot me, your a selfish imature man, and I would thank God if I were that woman that you were no where around.

sad sad sad

Let this thread be treated with the contempt it deserves. Let this be the very last post.

Dont give him/it the time of day.

Hi to all,
I think he has a point here. I do feel that there is a BIG difference between having an OC from an A and being a player like he seems to be. BUT come on people......do you HONESTLY believe that she was taking the pill (99.9% effective) the way SHE claims she was. We ALL know that some women think that the way to get a man is to produce him a child and then he will attached to you for life, right. WRONG!! ALL men and women should be financially responsible for the children they produce but why FORCE someone to try love someone else under any circumstances? Do I think its sad that a child is growing up w/o a mom and dad together- HELL YES its sad. But that is why WOMEN need to be the responsible ones when it comes to getting pregnant and THINK about the outcome. This is PROOF of that. She WANTED to get knocked up so she could trap him and you all know it. Could he have worn a condom and protected himself, YES!!! But since a woman gets to choose weather or not to HAVE the child or KEEP the child then it is HER responsiblity to protect herself from a pregnancy she doesn't want. He should pay CS and its NOT extortion money, it is the price you pay to hopefully learn a valuable lesson about himself and life in general. Its sad that the lesson comes at the price of a fatherless child but that is the lesson the mother will have to learn too. Women need to stop thinking that MEN feel the same way about children we do. I CAN'T imagine having a child and not being a part of its life but that is b/c it comes from and lives in me for 9 months. I think single women need to THINK before a having a child and if you can't handle the possibility of raising that child alone then take percautions before hand. I don't believe that there so many "unplanned" pregnancy out there. If you can look me in the eye and tell me that you took the pill 100% AND used a condom or another form of BC and STILL got pregnant then MAYBE you can call it "unplanned" but I would call it a miracle. ALL children need love in any form from parents, grandparents and anyone else in their lives. If she loves her son then he will grow up knowing that he is loved but if she focuses on this man, that is when the son will truely suffer!!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by nocontact:
<strong>...I feel I have something to contribute to this board, in the form of a point of view from the other side.

A few years ago when I was single, I dated a woman for eighteen months. I never considered it a serious relationship, but she was always available for sex so I didn’t exactly run from her. I never once considered pregnancy a possibility because I’d questioned her closely about birth control before we began having sex and she assured me that she was on birth control pills... </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So the point is that you didn't take responsibility for your part in birth control even tho you never intended to commit to the woman nor a child that might be produced with all this free, unprotected sex happening?

Maybe your ex-girlfriend is kind of psycho, but you picked her, right? What does that say about you, regardless of your reasons, this is a person YOU chose to have unprotected sex with in an ongoing situation. And you did this all while you were single and free to choose any fish in the sea... THIS is what YOU chose? hmmm....

I'm sorry but your lack of character and your indiscretion has now affected an innocent life. Just because you reject the child doesn't make right what you did to the mother of the child and how you are handling yourself now. I mean refusing to take responsibility for your choice not to protect yourSELF.

And gosh, your wife knew all this about you, your dating philosophy and your past and yet she married you anyway? Wow!

<small>[ January 23, 2003, 08:40 AM: Message edited by: BINthereDUNthat ]</small>

NC, I believe you got what you deserved, however your children did not.

I think NoContact has a right to his feelings, although I disagree with his perspective. All in all, this little story is a lesson in consequences.

FACT: He never promised his exG marriage, but he did use her for sex
the moral of that story is that when you use someone who is emotionally involved with you for sex, you can get trapped. Moral of the Story: BE CAREFUL OF WHO YOU HAVE SEX WITH- it's an entanglement, it's not just sex. Men don't always get that.

CONSEQUENCE: He now has to pay child support for the child he fathered.

She however, apparently knew he didn't want to marry her, got pregnant, accidently or not, and chose to have the child- SO
CONSEQUENCE: She's raising the child without the involvement of the bio-father. That's the consequence of the choices SHE made, since she did have other choices- abortion, adoption etc.

But it DOES strike me, that if this mother cared about her child, and truly wanted him to be involved with his bio-father- she would allow visitation with the father at the dad's own home with the dad's family. To OFFER to give up child support (money the child is entitled to- even if she can live without it now she can bank it for college, car etc.)- in exchange for DRAGGING this man into HER life, in the form of visits at HER house- is at the very least manipulative.

He never made a commitment to this woman, and now she won't let go.

Too bad. The child does deserve a father. NoContact should get visitation (at his house, with his wife and child) which he is no doubt entitled to- since he does pay child support.

But I can understand that he would be leery of any involvement with his exgirlfriend. Still perhaps he should offer visitation at his home with him and his family- if only so he will have no guilt regarding the child. No doubt the XGF will turn that offer down, since her conditions (him visiting alone) tell us what her true intentions are.

<small>[ January 23, 2003, 09:06 AM: Message edited by: espoir ]</small>

This is one of the worst cases of complete and total abdication of responsibility I have read yet.
You are a classic example of the type of person trying to rationalize a very serious issue.
While your ex-girlfriend may be trying to "get it" back together with you, you must try to be a man in this circumstance.
First, no further development in your relationship with this woman will occur if you DO NOT allow it.
Secondly, you CANNOT abdicate your responsibility for this child. While you may not be to be a full-time Father, this child deserves to know you.

Try to imagine in your pea sized brain that if this was the child that you have had with your wife,would your treatment of this child be the same ?

The clock on the all is ticking. Want to know what it says?
Time to GROW up.

Gosh, I think you all are being really harsh here. I have to agree with Espoir on this one. No Contact, I believe it's great when a child knows where he came from, but it doesn't ruin his life if he doesn't. I don't know my biological parents, and I have not suffered from it at all. They for whatever reason chose to give me up,and I know it's not the same as your situation, but the ending is. The fact that you're paying CS says you're taking responsibility for your actions, I don't think you have to get to know this child if you don't want to. BUT, maybe if you open your heart a little bit, you'll come to realize that there is love for this child buried somewhere under the contempt for his mother. And if she really loves her child, she'll eventually get the fact that you and she will never be together, and let you be involved with your child. Just think on it okay? What harm could it do for you to just try it?

Bridgette

I personally feel that the child that you helped to create with your xGF is far better off having never known you. How sad that someone like you is raising another little person in this world with your selfish and hypocritical beliefs. The xGF is the winner here, at least she never married you.

CM

Well, I just think NC sounds like a young (very young) man who is kind of taking it for granted that he was fortunate enough to witness two full-term pregnancies and participate in contributing to the birth of TWO HEALTHY babies which, to me, is not to be taken lightly. Procreation is such a miracle in and of itself!

Some happily married people cannot conceive and have been trying for years to have babies. Some happily married people have babies but things go wrong. Some happily married couples get pregnant, but can't sustain those pregnancies for whatever reasons. Some couples pay thousands and thousands of dollars to get pregnant... Some people think that they are happily married until their wayward spouse goes out and makes a baby through an affair--which is what this particular discussion forum is all about. From your story, you are not recovering from adultery, you just seem to be rejecting your own flesh and blood out of your disdain for the mom (whom you picked)!!??

I'm not judging you NC, I don't have room to judge you considering my past, but perhaps a little more life experience will put things into perspective for you regarding all those involved in your circumstances.

You may not feel this way in the years to come... but you might wish to consider your darling daughter's reaction to the fact that she has a sibling out there in the world. I mean, suppose you guys can't have any more children for whatever reason??? Just suppose?

<small>[ January 24, 2003, 01:45 PM: Message edited by: BINthereDUNthat ]</small>

OK. This is not going to be a popular opinion but here goes anyway.

The simple fact of life is MANY people have casual sex. Right or wrong it is a fact of life.
If a woman engages in casual sex, gets pregnant and then decides to put the baby up for adoption we would all be falling all over ourselves talking about what an unselfish gesture it is.
Why is it we hold men to such a higher standard ?
Why is sex consent to parenthood for men but not for women ?
Why do we think it honorable when a women admits she is in no position to be a parent or simply does not wish to be a parent at that time, but we think a man is a SOB if he does the same ?
It makes NO difference if a man is married or single. He should have the same opportunity to walk away from an unwanted pregnancy as a woman. And please don't anyone give me the line about how it is a woman's body. If it is her body she needs to take responsibility for what happens to it.
I find it EXTREMELY hypocritical to cast stones at nocontact. If he never led that girl to believe he was interested in a long term relationship then he didn't lie to her. If she was willing to let herself be used then that was her choice. As adults they both made a choice for casual sex. Maybe she was hoping for more but that was her mistake.
I think it all comes down to the same thing. Men should not be forced into parenthood in ANY circumstance.

I know there are women out there who trick men and get pregnant. It is unfortunate for all involved, especially the child. It doesn't have to be the end of the world for the child, but they do miss out on some things not having a father around.

If she really did trick him she got what she deserved. Hopefully she's learned her lesson. If NC is just a cold *******, they child is probably better off not knowing him. Even though the OC came from a different woman, it is still his flesh and blood. I'm surprised you haven't persued your OWN visitation, it would piss her off royaly to have to hand him over to you.

Do you really think pursueing visitation for the sole purpose of pissing someone off is a good enough reson to bring a child in your life, that seems a very cruel use of a child who is innocent.

Children are by far better off not having someone in their life who is not healthy and is not capable of loving them unconditonally.

Children need love and stability and it is capable of giving them that in two seperate house holds, unfortunately you have to have all people involved willing to act in a mature way to raise the child. If they can not do that they dont need in that babies life, it is hurtfull and pointless.

before i married fh my exgf got pregnant for the same exact reason. to trap me into a marriage. i told her goodbye the same day she told me she was pregnant. but i did not turn my back on my son. i paid my cs and had the courts set up visitation. there were some very hard times as my ex was very bitter that i was moving on with my life. in the long run it paid off and i have a great son with a great relationship with him.

the point is although i didn't want any children at the time it had no bearing on the fact that i was responsible for createing one. i played the game believeing that she was on birth control. my mistake not to assure myself to take care of myself. now of course there was one major difference in that casual sex in the 70's rarely resulted in death. i still don't understand how anyone today could have sex outside of a marriage and not consider the possibility of std's. not with their life and the life of their spouse on the line.

That poor chld. I feel so sorry for him. He is being rejected and he doesn't even carry the stigma of being the result of an EMA.

The child was conceived and born before NC met and married his wife, so she was never betrayed by NC.

I would think this in itself would make it far, far more palatable to incorporate this child into your and your Wife's life, NC. You could be missing out on somehting very special with this child you are rejecting. I see no reason to reject this child because it does not represent betrayal nor should it's existence hurt your Wife in any way since this all happened before she was in the picture.

Personally, I cannot even consider contact with the OC in my situation, but I willingly and gladly raised my husband's two children from his previous marriage for over a decade because his children were produced before I knew him and were not a product of betrayal. You and your Wife might have the ability to open your hearts and your home to this child without the burden we carry here.

But, I agree with Just Learning, too. No one should be forced unwillingly into parenthood, under any circumstance. I wonder how much your reluctance is directly a result of your dislike for the former GF.

It might be nice for your daughter to know her sibling and have a relationship with this boy...it could be rewarding for all of you.

Catnip =^^=

I’m just very bitter. I never wanted a child with that woman.
Then you shouldn't have had sex with her.

BUT come on people......do you HONESTLY believe that she was taking the pill (99.9% effective) the way SHE claims she was.
Why couldn't she be part of the .01% that DO get pregnant while on the pill?

Besides, it doesn't matter if she ever took a pill. Don't want babies? Don't have sex.

Men should not be forced into parenthood in ANY circumstance.
So they are FORCED into having sex? Where can I get some of that?

my exgf got pregnant for the same exact reason. to trap me into a marriage.
No, she got pregnant because you had sex with her.
I know plenty of females who don't have sex. Guess what? NONE OF THEM ARE PREGNANT!
SEX WAS DESIGNED TO MAKE BABIES!

catnip,
I would think this in itself would make it far, far more palatable to incorporate this child into your and your Wife's life, NC
NC cannot incorporate the child into his current life. The ex gf does not want his wife and child at any visitation.

ca123,,,,, i was not trying to place blame on my exgf. she did in fact get pg in an attempt to get me to marry her. you are right, if i didn't have sex with her she would never have gotten pg, <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> , but that was not the point i intended to make. instead the point was to show that whether or not i was comfortable with my relationship with exgf. i still had a relationship with my son. my wife fh also had a very good relationship with him as their was no emotional trauma related to him from betrayal. she knew up front that he was part of my life. she did however wish that she could have had my 1st child.

whether the exgf wants his knew wife to part of the visitation package is mute. she has no say in that. as far as most courts if the man marries or remarries he has the right to include his new family into the relationship with his existing children. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If we all got what we deserved...</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">...We'd all have SUCKER tatooed on our foreheads for responding to NC's post.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />