i suppose this question is mostly directed to ww (and their h's) who're raising a child that resulted from an affair - but anyone can feel free to jump in!

i'm currently about 6 mths pregnant with the om's baby. i told my h about the baby and the A the day after i found out i was pregnant. it's been a rough 6 mths, but we're still together and trying to rebuild our marriage.

my question is this: how do you separate your love for your baby with your feelings about the affair and the om?

not too sure if that made sense, so i'll explain. i know that my relationship with the om was everything that everyone says on this site: destructive, hurtful, selfish, wrong, sinful, deceptive, etc. take your pick of negative adjectives and anyone of them will fit. the problem i'm having is reconciling those words and ideas with how totally in love i am with this baby inside of me. and i haven't even met him yet!

so how do you hate what you did, but love what it's brought you? when i start thinking like this, i end up going in circles!

for you bhs out there who're raising a baby that isn't yours, how much has your ability to forgive the om had to do with your ability to love and raise this baby? or have you even been able to forgive? how long did it take?

i'd love any feedback/success stories from those of you who've gone through this.

amy

pops????, K??????,Sailorman?????, Amethyst03 needs ya.....

Amethyst03,
I think you and H are doing a great job! I truly hope for your recovery. You sound like you want your marriage to work.

I'm sure one of the men here will share the feelings they went through and what must happen to further your recovery.

Blessings,
Debi

Amethyst03,

Well, I can completely understand your frustrations and feelings, as I went through the same thing about 2 yrs ago! The biggest difference is that H(Sailorman) knew about the A before either of us knew about the pregnancy. I do know that Sailorman had a hard time dealing with the fact that I was P by xOM for the whole pregnancy, and it wasn't until after she was born that he was able to see her as a complete innocent in the whole mess! He loves her as much as our older 2 children.

As for your feelings being seperate, well, I will admit that I do still feel guilt when I look at Abbi! I don't think that will ever completely go away, but I don't think I want it to, cause it reminds me of what I almost lost! And I don't ever want to be in that possition again! But, I love her as much as our other 2 children, and I no longer connect her with the xOM!

I don't care what the BH's here say, I truly believe that they are some very special men to willingly and lovingly accept these children, and raise them as their own! This phrase can never be said/written too much, "Any man can be a father, but it takes someone special to be a Daddy!"

Just keep those lines of communication open w/your H, and keep the honesty flowing freely! If there is anything else I can help you with, just ask!

Hope I helped!

Tigger

tigger, thanks so much. i've read many of your posts and was hoping you'd reply!

does the om know about abbi? do they have any contact at all? do you think your situation would've been any different/harder if it had been your first child?

can you remember anything that helped sailorman bond or connect with her while you were pregnant? or maybe that didn't happen til she was actually born?

ha! you'll regret saying to ask you if i had anymore questions! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

amy

Forgiving the OM and loving the OC are two very different things. Many BH's have accepted and loved the OC as their own without forgiving the OM. Why? because the OC, just like any other baby, is totally inoccent of the circumstances surrounding her/his birth. But the OM is NOT an inocent victim by any stretch of the imagination, and your BH ows him no sacred vows of loyalty and love. And even if you aren't an inoccent victim yourself, your BH DID make sacred vows to you and to God, and because of these vows (and his deep love for you), he can find it in his heart to forgive you.

But keep in mind that if YOU insist on having the OM be a part of your baby's life, you could be planting the seeds of your divorce later on.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">But keep in mind that if YOU insist on having the OM be a part of your baby's life, you could be planting the seeds of your divorce later on.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">i'm not insisting at all! i know that at this point, it would be WAY too hard for my h to see the om. they were friends so the A was a double betrayal for him. IF the om has contact with us and this baby in the future it'll only be with my h's willing consent. the whole poja thing. i don't want to cause him any more pain than i have already.

i guess i'm wondering about the bh's pov cause i'm worried that my h hasn't really dealt at all with his anger over the A. i feel like he's just transfered it all onto the om. it's easier for him to hate the om than to hate me. but transference isn't a great solution and i'm afraid it'll all come out one day. don't get me wrong! it's not that i expect him to just "get over" his anger. i'm just afraid that he's bottled it all up instead of dealing with it. and i'm not exactly sure how to help him with that.

i don't know how he can continue to hate the om, but be able to love this baby. does that make sense?

i know that everyone loves babies. everytime we're with my 6 mth old nephew (who my h absolutely adores!) it's easy for me to believe that he'll be able to love this baby just as easily. but i guess my nephew isn't a reminder of the worst thing i could've ever done to him.

is forgiveness (of the om) part of the healing process for most bhs? or is that unreasonable/unrealistic to expect or hope for?

amy

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> don't know how he can continue to hate the om, but be able to love this baby. does that make sense?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Amy please read the first part of my last post.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">is forgiveness (of the om) part of the healing process for most bhs? or is that unreasonable/unrealistic to expect or hope for?

amy</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No it isn't part of the healing process, and you shouldn't expect it from your BH either. In fact the presence of the OM is much more of an impediment to your M than the baby will ever be to it.

Remember that we men have a way of compartmentalizing things in our minds, that you women sometimes find it alien to your own way of dealing with some of those same things.

Amy,

Well, xOM doesn't know about Abbi, as far as we know. See, xOM had threatened to kill Sailorman so he could have me for himself! He was even trying to break us up after D-day! It's a very long story, and if you want all the facts, I can share them! When we found out that I was P, we knew that if xOM knew, he would never leave us alone again! We wanted to get on with our lives w/out xOM's interfeirence! So, we never told, and he was long gone before I even started showing. My recomendation for you is to keep OM out of your lives if you want to save your M.

You also asked if it would be different/harder if Abbi were our first child. Well, That would also depend on our history together! See, we have been married almost 14 yrs now, and have been together over 17! That's a lot of history to turn our backs on. I wish that I knew what course we would have taken had we only been married a short while with no other kids! We've also given a child up for adoption 15 yrs ago, so there's just tons of history! You two need to figure out together where you want your marriage to go at this point.

As for Sailorman bonding while I was P, it didn't happen! In fact, he says that the nurses and doctors in the delivery room were probably wondering what was going on, as it wasn't as joyful as most births! He says that it was after being home with the other two for the 2 nights we were in the hospital. He said it wasn't anything specific, just that she is/was the complete innocent in the situation!

I don't regret telling you to ask, cause that's what those of us in recovery are here for, to answer your questions to the best of our ability! Again, if there are any questions, feel free to ask!

You can and will make it, just keep working together, and I still recommend keeping OM out of your lives!

Tigger

hey tigger, thanks again for your response.

sounds like your om is a lot different than mine. i've always thought that if he had been mean/cruel/dangerous/vindictive, it would be SO much easier to put him out of my thoughts. unfortunately he's been supportive of me even when it meant that he didn't get what he wanted (me and the baby). it's hard for me to turn my back on him when i know he genuinely wants to love this baby and be a part of his son's life.

i posted this same question on the recovery board, wanting to hear from those who've successfully recovered from something like this. i've been really surprised by the different responses. most on this board would say, "definitely, no contact!", but on that board it was like, "why do YOU get to choose who's in your baby's life and why are you automatically the one who gets to raise him?!" not from everyone, but from a few.

almost makes me want to laugh! not cause i think it's funny, but cause it makes me more confused!

the way i look at it right now is that i'm working on my m. period. the baby isn't even here yet! if i kept in contact with the om for the baby's sake, it would kill my h! and frankly i'm not sure i'm strong enough yet to be around him (om).

this might all be a null point anyways. who knows how the om will feel after so many mths of nc (though i can't imagine him ever turning his back on his son) and my h and i are moving to another city at the end of the month.

i think, if nothing else, i'm learning not to expect too much from my h too soon. even if this were our baby, it would've been a bit hard to deal with as it wasn't exactly in our plans for a few or five more years.

i may have more questions for you later on, tigger. thanks so much for your willingness to help.

amy

p.s. check out the thread on the recovery board if you have the chance and tell me what you think...

Amy,

Well, I did read the posts on the recovery board, and I can see some of the reasoning behind what they've said, but most, if not all of those who posted that you have "no right" to not have OM involved have not lived this aspect/results of an A! If you think about it, what about a child who was adopted to another family? You don't hear people crying foul that the biological parents don't have contact, why is this so much different? Your OM knows that you want your M to work, and is willing to work with that.

I would concentrate on your M right now, and worry about the rest when it comes. At least then you will know where your M stands, and you will have a united front!

The Harley's have so much proof that NC is the best way to go, and I agree with them! I'm lucky, cause xOM doesn't know about Abbi, but you have a little more of a problem. I would recomend finding out the paternity laws for where you will live when the baby is born! Why, cause you may not have a problem with having H stated as the father, and OM may not have the ability(legally) to try to claim paternity! Most states consider the child of a M the child of the H, and the OM can't even sue for paternity unless the H contests paternity himself. It's worth checking out.

Hope I helped again <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Love,

Tigger

In this state om can sue for paternity any time he wishes.
but your question about seperating the om from your child.
It is so easy, I look at my daughter and see the most beautiful child ever, a child that I risked every thing to have and love her. she is wonderful and when I see her and hold her, my thoughts are not with om, they are with my daughter and my husband and my family.
My husband loves her and was showing off his baby girl in the hospital to all who came. she is his baby girl and she has him wrapped around her finger.
Om has had contact off and on, he does not have contact at the moment his choice, when he gets his stuff together he is welcome to see her. but it is difficult with his family and has been more trouble than it is worth. Not sure what we will do but NC doesnt sound so bad, however I wont make that decision it will have to be his although he wants me to make it for him, <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

When the baby gets here your gonna love that little bundle reguardless of how she got here. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

<small>[ February 17, 2003, 10:36 PM: Message edited by: mom of five ]</small>

amethyst03,,,,, i think my replys may just add more confusion for you but it will just show you that all situations are different.

my ability to forgive om has nothing to do with my feelings for grace. i must say that seeing fullhouse (fh) preg. with om's child was very difficult. what tigger said about drs and nurses thinking something was wierd was also true for graces delivery. fh had had the same drs group deliver all 6 of our c's. each time i was very involved and would be asking the dr to just move over and i would handle everything. not so with grace. i was present to give fh support but was only involved as a cameraman. no cutting the cord, didn't care to hold her, etc. it took a little longer for me to become involved then for tiggers h. for me the turning point was while i was driving home from a job in palm springs (about a 2 hour drive) i was listening to a tape by b.j.thomas and he sang a song about a toy soldier (child). i can't even remember the title right now. but it made me realize that i could go the easy way and divorce throw my kids lives into the fan and put grace and fh in a very difficult life style. this would also put my children into a very painful place. so i had to take a real hard look back at the vows i spoke to fh 23 years ago. one was "for better or worse". as you well know it doesn't get any worse then what we are all going through here.

as for the om and forgiveness? i don't and haven't done so. i do however understand that fh was as much to blame as he was. i also believe that he was just the guy who happened to be there for her at that time. and if it hadn't been him it would have most likely been someone else. why don't i just forgive him then? because although i'm not trying to judge him i can't stand a man who has no morality. he new i was trying to repair my marriage with fh and all he could think of was getting another notch on his belt.

i tend to agree that nc may be the best for most people. maybe even us. but i also feel that he must step up and take the responsibility for his actions. i know that he may very well persue visitation but i have many reasons for asking fh to persue cs. 1 is my age, i will turn 51 in 8 days and my father had 4 heart attacks at age 53, 2 is if (God forbid) something were to happen to me fh will need all she can get to provide for not only our children but for grace also and 3 is that i will be on the down hill side toward 70 when grace graduates from h.s. and i can tell you it will take more then my s.s. to provide for a tenage girl in the year 2019.

so forgiveness of om will be for myself not neccesarily for the mending of my marriage.

i can say that you won't be able to rush or force your h's recovery or forgiveness processes to meet your own. fh and i talk about this often. especially around holidays and special occasions. i bought her smething for valentines day but i have a very difficult time choosing a card for these types of occasions. the wording all still seems so hypocritical to me. there are times when i want to tell her i love her but when i look at her i can't bring myself to do so. part is because i don't feel she is meeting some of my en's and part is because i am not ready to knock down the wall i have built around my heart yet. this is probably due to the fact that i don't know how she will deal with om next month when the cs hearing comes up. i told her that i want to handle all contact with om from here on and she digs her feet in on that subject. she says she doesn't want me starting trouble. i tell her that i would handle it simply business. then she says that she is afraid om will not like that. this sends me mixsd signals of her true feelings. i want with all my heart to believe she is out of the fog but i have to wait to see how she reacts under fire.

don't know if this helps you or confuses you more. feel free to ask any questions that you may have as i am sure also that my rambling is also confusing.
pops

pops I dont want to hijack this thread but I need to tell you.

I would bet fh not wanting you to make trouble[so to speak] doesnt mean she has feelings for om , it is probably just her concern over what this will be like for grace and how she will manage letting grace go with someone other than you or your family. Believe it or not, for a mother that is a very dramatic event and not an easy thing to do. and I think we worry about every little thing we can in those circumstances. just something to think about <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Dear amethyst03
How is your H taking it,I just want to know because my W for 3 years just told me that the baby she is 4 month pregnant for is not mine.
I dont know what to do we did not talk much about it because I'm still trying to not believe it.One thing we did talk about is the OM and if he know anything about she being pregnant for him.She says that she can not get in touch with him because he has changed his #.

We been to a MC and when she found out she was pregnant I asked her if it was mine and in front of the MC she said yes for sure, but 2 month later she calls me and tells me this child that will be our first is not mine.

I talked to friends and family and both had different opinions on this subject,but I dont want to take any advice till my head is alright.

Amethyst,

I've been raising my wife's "OC", and he just turned four this past December.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">how do you separate your love for your baby with your feelings about the affair and the om?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This child has been a complete delight. Because of my wife's health issues, we won't have another baby, so this one has been our last. I'm enjoying every minute of it, and it's been a special treat to care for him.

Again, I fall into a different situation---I was separated (Plan B) from my wife when she got pregnant. During that separation I had gotten through the forgiveness aspect of the affair, both for her and for the OM (who I didn't really know---so there wasn't a lot of personal betrayal involved there). With the discovery of the pregnancy, I knew that there might be hope for our marriage. The affair ended very badly, and the OM has never contacted us about the child (and we have not pursued child support).

I would strongly encourage you to do the phone counseling available through MB to rebuild your marriage (888-639-1639 for appointments). At this time you need to focus on being honest, not lovebusting, and using the POJA and negotiation skills to make decisions that will build your love for each other. It's a critical time, and you really need to make the best of this opportunity. Steve or Jenn will help you both deal with the situation you're currently in, and help you focus on the future and learn the skills that will build your love for each other.

Dear Am,

Others on this board are right. Your H's forgiveness of OM will come on his schedule, if at all. It is too much to ask your H to forgive this "friend" of his who had a role in the most awful event of his life.

I am here because my H's affair has gotten us an OC but I am also the child conceived of my mother's affair and born into my parents' restored marriage. My father still loved my mother and wanted to reconcile even though he knew she was pregnant by her lover. (I have had no contact with my bio-father except that I have spied on him a time or two.) My Dad loves me; loves me as no one else has ever done in my life. He admits to "not liking" the exOM, but I don't think he still hates him. Hate and non-forgiveness are not part of my father's personality. I just wanted to point out that my dad's feelings for me and for exOM are two separate issues for him--however he is an exceptionally evolved person who has a very strong faith life.

Just remember that POJA. Both you and your H must enthusiastically agree to whatever decisions you make regarding exOM and this child. Even if you decide to divorce, that has to be an enthusiastic agreement.

Shalom,
MJ

thanks to all who replied.

my h and i had a session with our mc this afternoon. we talked about the whole forgiveness issue and how it would relate to my h's relationship and feelings for the baby. it was actually a really good session. my h expressed some things about the baby that he hadn't before - like that he's starting to be able to think about the baby without thinking about the om. that was new to me. we don't talk a whole lot about the baby... i have a hard time bringing it up because i'm afraid it might be too hard for him yet and may be too much of a trigger.

anyways, our mc had an interesting point about forgiveness. he said that there's a big difference between forgiveness and reconciliation.

when you forgive someone, you're basically saying that you're giving up the right for revenge or retribution or justice (not that you're not due these things). reconciliation is desiring to rebuild a broken relationship.

forgiveness doesn't neccessarily imply reconciliation. at least not in the case of an affair.

obviously opinions will vary, just like everyone's situation varies. i just thought it was good insight.

any thoughts?

amy

hi please read my post thats titled how long do i have to pay to sum up my history and bring you up to date but after that i just want to say that i am in the exact situation as you only my son was born 10 months ago. i won't lie to you, my h has his good and bad days but mostly he is just withdrawn. i too felt that it was impossible to not love a sweet precious bundle but even though my h knows that our son is the only innocent party in all this he still after 10 months can't seem to love our son and now i am struggling with what to do and what is best for my son. the om does know but when i was 3 months p and my husband wanted to work things out i thought it best to cut all ties and luckily that went well but now even though i would never be with the om again if i am on my own and things don't work out with my h my son has the right to know who his father is, not that my h and i would keep it from him forever but i was thinking that it would not be an issue and things are not as good as i hoped they would be. it is so hard because i am trying everyday and even though my h is good with our son, the fact that after 10 months he stil does not have feelings for him really could change things. i know i need to do what is best for my son but i keep questioning whether or not i have done everything to make it work . i keep hoping i can try something new to help us mend things. things were ok between us until the baby was born. i love my son so much and have never known that you could love and care so much for anyone. that doesn't mean i don't love my husband because i am more in love with him now. he is trying but it is not easy. i really hope it is easier for you but just know that it is a roller coaster and some days your childs smile in the morning is what you will have to hold onto to get you through another day!!!!

Amethyst,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">when you forgive someone, you're basically saying that you're giving up the right for revenge or retribution or justice </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That's a very nice way of putting it. In addition, you give up the ability of that person to yank your emotions around by the injury that they have done to you. It frees up your soul---you're not held captive by all those negative feelings. It's not like you're going to make the OP your best friend or invite them to dinner every week (that's reconciliation). Finding a path towards forgiveness for the OP is mainly a benefit for the person who's doing the forgiving. The OP won't know about (and probably wouldn't care), but that's not the primary goal.