Hi, I haven't visited site in a while. Had hysterectomy and have been in lots of pain lately. Only 2 weeks into recovering. Anyway we went to court to establish paternity for OC however, OW was a no show. She had the nerves to call our home privacy of course and hang up about 2 weeks after court date. I emailed her and told her off about not showing up I told her she was lying about H being OC dad. Also told her in which we had already told her that we were trying to do the Godly thing and pay for H mistake but, now we are not obligated to do so. The letter was very lengthy. Next day she had someone to play on my cell phone and leave message pretending to be another woman whom my H is supposedly seeing. We knew it was her. Anyway I am not into playing childish games with her I only emailed her but, that is it I got my point across. Now we are waiting on courts to send her another letter. They said if she did not corporate they will cut her off any assistance she is receiving and force her to show up. I told her H she will not get a dime unless child is proven to be his. Thoughts from anyone on this matter.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

What state do you live in? Ohhh how I wish for you that it comes out not to be his child. What a releif that would be! Of course not for the child. But then you could really move on. It seems like she can't move on. The OW used call me all the time but at the time I didn't know what was going on. And get this when she would call she would always ask for herself and be like are you sure she ain't there? I would be like noone lives here by that name. She also would call and act like she got the number from an ad from the paper? When I finally met her the first time and spoke to her I was like you were the one that kept calling my house. I knew then she was nothing but trouble. But anyway enough of me! She might not know who the babies dad is ? Does your H see the OC now? Hopefully it will turn out good for you and then you could move on. I hope for the best for you!!!!

Hi Butter

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> Way to go! Don't let ow get away with this.
Challenge everything she does in the legal way
OW is playing games I feel.

I admire your strenght keep up the good work.

Thank you both for your replies. I have been in pain past few days. H saw child about week after I found out briefly supposedly on a Walmart parking lot without my permission. We agreed that everything would be done legally and that once paternity is established we will see OC together as a family you know. However, since I have been home I have a lot of time to do some serious thinking and my mind and heart is telling me that if I wanted to I could we could get custody of that child. A couple of people told me to fight for full custody but, I was never thinking that way. However, I could make her life miserable like she has done mine. I could have her child and my husband. We are more financially stable H is detective, in reserves works part time, I have good job just got promotion while being at home on medical leave, I am a part time student, we are buying a home and have 3 cars. She on the other hand is psychotic, rents low income apartment and could not win against us in court. What are your opinions on this matter? Good news also she phoned H and told him she was served with papers again to go to court on the 25th of this month. Let's just see if she shows up this time. H says one reason she probably did not show up was because, of fear from me. But, I feel like if you are bold enough to sleep with my H then you should be bold enough to face your own music. God bless you both! Will keep you posted. Oh yea, tomorrow is my 10 year wedding anniversary. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

you want to take her child as a pay back and she is phsychotic <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> hello I think maybe there is a little on both sides, you dont try to take someones child because you want to make them pay how sad for you,that you have not come any farther than this.
I guess this is one of these times when child support will raise her standard of living and she can afford better..
but dear I dont think they give people children just because they have a three car garage,

we would have a whole lot more than 5.
You have three cars, do you think the judge thinks the baby will drive one of those cars ?
I am a little lost on your point your making, they dont take children away from a mother because she is low income, they get her help, and your support will do that.
Becareful what you wish for it could back fire.

This amazes me, why do women whos husband had a baby with someone else think they can or have any right to steal that womans child. It takes a whole lot to prove a mother unfit, and being poor isnt one of them.
you are truly sick.
You people flame away.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> A couple of people told me to fight for full custody but, I was never thinking that way. However, I could make her life miserable like she has done mine. I could have her child and my husband. We are more financially stable H is detective, in reserves works part time, I have good job just got promotion while being at home on medical leave, I am a part time student, we are buying a home and have 3 cars. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">truly sad

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Anyway we went to court to establish paternity for OC however, OW was a no show. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

If OW was a no show it's possible she'll do the same thing again. Maybe she didn't count on your H asking for a paternity test. Maybe she thought your H would be gullable and buy into her I'm pregnant story. I pray that all will turn out well for you which ever way it goes.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This amazes me, why do women whos husband had a baby with someone else think they can or have any right to steal that womans child.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

Your statement amazes me also because I've never heard of a BS wanting to take OW child away, unless she's an unsuitable parent and this is agreed by all parties including the courts. Usually BS don't want NC with OC unless Contact can be drama free handleing the situation like adults without some OW adding more problems by using baby as a pawn to get MM.

Now I've seen some BS open to the idea of custody of OC. If it's agreed upon by all that is involved, but just to out right take OC from OW NAH, I don't think so most BS don't want the drama we rather leave the situation alone NC.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am a little lost on your point your making, they dont take children away from a mother because she is low income, they get her help, and your support will do that. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

MO5 it depends on the circumstances and the state in which you live. I've known of cases were women have actually lost custody, because the father income exceeded the mother's. Far as help for low income women who need help, The Governor of the state in which I live has halt voucher program for women who work and can't afford daycare. This will take place in January I believe. So were is the help going to come from to help these women pay for daycare?

You also told butterfly her support will help raise the standard of living. Well paternty has to be establish first and it looks like OW is trying to avoid that, now I wonder why? seem like she would have been in court like Johnny on the spot especially for an increase of income I would think so.

<small>[ March 17, 2003, 04:30 AM: Message edited by: MALC ]</small>

One of my husband's ex-ow's biggest fears was that he would sue for custody. He didn't, in fact wanted to adopt her out.

She lost custody of her first child for being too young and on welfare. Her station in life has improved and I'm glad she's married and having a life for herself and her daughter.

With that being said, I can speak from experience being abandoned by my first husband, I had to go on welfare. I'm also hearing impaired. Stuff that my ex-h's family thought they could use against me and they were told not only do grandparents have limited rights, that unless I was determined to be an unfit mother,(and that is subjective due to different laws/states/etc.) they cannot take my two children away from me.

They have money out of the butt, but I was raising my girls to the best of my ability. Yes, the state made Wild Bill pay them back over $10,000 that he owed them for abandoning me (we were married, which is why they nailed him).

Unless there are extreme cases of neglect and abuse, (and in some incidences they are slow in that...to the detriment of the child!) there isn't much you can do to take the child.

Would taking the child "to even the score" with OW make your feelings for the child different? Would you love and care for that child as your own? Or would you look at that child and feel triumphant that you "took something from her, that she took from you?"...not picking a fight, but a child is a lifetime committment.

Choose carefully and wisely. It would be a tough financial battle and the state ususally always sides with the poor unwed/divorced mother, whether fair or not.

Hope you find the peace that you need.
I'll be watching for updates on you.

Twiisty

Butterfie,
I "hear" your pain and I can certainly understand your desire for a little "pay back," but do you really want that kid in your life? You and your H would probably be better off waiting for the court to PROVE paternity and then deciding if you want anything to do with that kid at all. If you should decide that you want joint custody or visitatiion with the kid, OW will hate having YOU being in the the OC's life at all...so holding her to strict visitation rights will be "pay back" enough for her. She wanted your H...not YOU as part of the package so make yourself a BIG part of the package. YOU will have the opportunity to have "input" with that kid...YOU will have the opportunity to sit that kid down some day and tell it of it's origin. OW's whine about a child "needing it's father in it's life"....well the child also needs to know how morally bancrupt it's mother was and why she choose to bring the kid into this world, taking the chance it would be fatherless, so that she could use her pregnancy as a weapon against an innocent woman and a man who wanted her for nothing more than sex. OW's hate the fact that what they were a repository for semen, when they make the "big announcement" and watch the WS run for the hills. MM don't get into relationships hoping to start a "new family" they get into them for selfish reasons that revolve around sex and sex only. It has nothing to do with the BS it has to do with the short comings and character flaws of the MM whose "ideas" about life, happiness, and self fulfillment get twisted up in his head. 99.9% of MM that stray NEVER intend to leave their BS for the OW. They like the excitement of the A and the comfort of the M, all their needs are being fulfilled without them having to look into themselves to find out why they're so screwed up. OW's find comfort in trying desperately to convince themselves that they are giving MM what he needs and that BS can't...OW's are always shocked to learn that MM is usually living like the perfect husband at home being loving, giving etc...and that OW is just a side trip for a meaningless screw, no matter how long the A goes on. OW lives in the shadows and settles for the crumbs and the lies...BS usually never knows she's being lied to until the A is exposed...OW on the otherhand knows that her entire relationship with MM is being done on the sneak....how pathetic.
Butterflie, do whatever makes YOU feel better whether it's for the moment for the day or for your lifetime. It's YOUR life, YOUR marriage, YOUR H that matter...the OW and her kid (semen sample)are no more than an inconvienence in your life, treat them as such.

tyme
this may suprise you, but there are betrayed spouses out there who consider this child more than just an inconvience.More than just a semen sample[ I know you mean that to hurt, but it just shows ignorance and a lack of maturity.
Some of them actually learn to love and nurture the child and learn to do it out of love and for no other reason.
You know a while back I had a funeral, and om had to work, but I wanted and needed my family at this funeral. Om's wife took my daughter and gave up her whole day off, to care for my daughter... not out of hate, but out of love, for her husband and for my daughter.
Doesnt matter what she thinks of me, or I think of her. She did it because she is trying and she wants to be in our daughters life. She could have just as easily said no, and I could have just as easy asked one of my girlfriends. But this gave them a chance to be together.

Takes work on all four parts to do what is right for a child and a great deal of maturity... and we all four fall short on that at times <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> as much as we think we have it just right. But we always go back to trying and doing what is best for the child in question.

But you dont try and take children to make someone pay, and dont use children to hurt someone else, it isnt right and as others have pointed out, it would take a heck of alot to prove a mother unfit, My gosh if I could count the amount of the abuse my daughter suffered, and the state kept trying to reunite mother and daughter, and she wasnt just poor, but a drug abuser and physically abusive.
It took alot of money and a lot of court to sever that relationship, so we could adopt and she could be safe in her environment. And the state had years of proof of neglect and abuse.

I know your hurting and angry, but the answer isnt in how you can hurt someone else, especially a child, what if your husband got pissed at you and decided he would take your children from you ?
would you let him ? After all if he is mad enough at you ? Sounds stupid just saying it doesnt it.
Dont forget how strong a mothers love is , before you begin to get your revenge, most of us become lions when it comes to protecting our children, and it doesnt matter who the little sperm donor was <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> We dont love our children because of who the father is, we love our children reguardless of how they came into this world. We love the because we gave birth to them, we care for them because god made us that way, and we do it with out thinking, they bring us great joy and love, and we are thankful for all our children.
BS, WS, OW, OM... MOST of us are the same in that we love our children a great deal. Doesnt matter who you are or where your from, we protect our children.
Dont get me wrong there are many mothers and fathers who fall short , way short of being a good parent. but it has nothing to do with how the child came to be, they are just not cut out to be parents and shouldnt be able to.

To sum it up tyme,
as much as I kow how angry you are and how much you may be hurting, This is a very good reason for no contact, You would scare the heck out me and I owuld fear for my child being around a person such as your self.

butterflie-
we sued for custody of two oc. we filed on our own without a lawyer. there was a person at the courthouse who looked at our forms just to make sure they were correct or who told us the next step in procedure. she was not allowed to give advice. we were told that the fl law was set up so that both parents would get joint custody unless there was some reason not to do that.

we were trying to be fair and reasonable and asked for joint custody and equal visitation. but ow showed some major irresponsibility. did not show for paternity testing, lied on several forms, lived promisculously, etc. even so we asked for 50/50. judge gave us full custody because of ow's history and lifestyle. we were shocked.

my husband and i decided together, but as the wife i was given NO say in this by the courts. i was not allowed into the judge's chambers where the hearing was held. and i have no rights to these children. if i take them to the doctor or anything, i have to have a written permission slip from my husband as if i was the one who did wrong.

i know that this is a better life for the children. no doubt about that. and we couldn't have asked for better with ow stepping out of our lives. but believe me, this is hard.

i didn't think it would be tough. when we decided to go for joint custody, i remember thinking that these were just kids who were innocent victims too, that kids were easy to love, etc. i thought i would do the right thing for the children and not give it another thought. i care very much for these children. i pray that they will be influenced more by their surroundings than by their dna. they call me mommy and i treat them as i think i would treat my own. i know they are victims in this mess too. and i will do my best to care for them and help them grow up to be the best that they can be.

but i am jealous sometimes of my husband's love for them. and i pray that i do not show a difference with my own child. but sometimes my selfishness comes to my thoughts. if my husband had been honorable then they would not exist and sometimes i really wish they did not exist. this is the only place that i feel comfortable to even say that, but sometimes it is the way i feel. it's not about the kids. it's about me and how i wish life was. it doesn't happen that often. usually i have to put aside what i want and how i feel so i can be a mommy. i am trying to pick out cute clothes or explain something like why this is called a leaf and that is called a flower.

i made sacrifices for these children. i don't ask for praise, but i can come here and say that it is tough. and yes, it is different than adopting or even raising a child from a previous relationship. don't judge me for my feelings until YOU have been in my shoes. i have taken on the responsibility to love and do the right thing for a child for a lifetime. i believe i have separated the children from the affair, and i am so thankful that we have no contact with ow. but sometimes it is still pretty tough.

sorry to have rambled...i think my point was that the courts were trying to encourage joint custody!! think long and hard about what is BEST FOR YOUR MARRIAGE and DECIDE TOGETHER WITH HUSBAND about whether no contact or visitation or pursuing joint custody is best. it depends on your own situation. there are some good guidelines for each, but there is no right answer.

Butterflie,
You don't want the child in your life. Not even for revenge. It would just backfire and you would be miserable having to face that child daily. Trust me, living well is the best revenge of all.

MO5,
***think they can or have any right to steal that womans child. ***
If she and her H really wanted that child for the right reasons don't you think the father has as much right to full custody as the mother? Or is this another one of those cases where the man has no rights?
And please keep in mind OW produced BS a stepchild she neither asked for nor wanted. Its a little too late now to say BS has no rights or say so about that child.
If everyone is truly concerned about the child it would seem to me they would want that child brought up in the most stable, financially secure home instead of with someone that is depending on xMM to increase her standard of living.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is a very good reason for no contact, You would scare the heck out me and I owuld fear for my child being around a person such as your self.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">MO5…
I hate to say this… but that kind of reply is exactly the type of thing the OW usually says…
The BS is so angry at her H and me… that I don’t want her around my child.
Very simplistic view, my friend…

Butterflie,
I guess I am the proverbial one to say, have I have been in your shoes!
I was angry at H and at exOW… very angry… but I also knew there was a child involved. Actually… 2… exOW’s son from a previous relationship and the OC, Lil Bit.
When I learned of Lil Bit, she wasn’t even born yet. ExOW was nearly 4 months along and I literally blew a gasket! But over time, I learned to cope with the pain.

ExOW had tried to use her son to “sink her claws” into H, as he loves children, promising the boy that H would be his Daddy. The poor boy was crushed when the A ended and H was no longer there to be Daddy, as his mother had promised.
I feel sorry for exOW, in that she feels that she needed to use the boy and the coming baby to blackmail H into continuing with her… YES she did do that for those of you that may doubt it, and many of you have been through this type of thing yourselves…

Learning of exOW’s history with her son… and her other son… I became convinced that H and I would be able to gain custody of Lil Bit and be able to “take” her away from exOW.
I was mainly driven by revenge, in the beginning, as I felt that exOW didn’t deserve my H’s child. ( I honestly still feel that way ) But over time, My main reason for fighting so fiercely for Lil Bit is Lil Bit herself.
She didn’t deserve to be placed in such a dangerous position. H knew of exOW’s history, though I doubt he learned it in the beginning of their involvement, and I hold him directly responsible for placing this little angel in harm’s way by giving her to exOW.

We do have a LARGE chunk of time with Lil Bit. We filed to establish paternity and after the DNA test, we filed for Full Custody.
The system is dragging their feet with this case… as with so many others… yet we have the bulk of the time with Lil Bit every week. Court ordered is 51+%, but exOW has had so many problems… the mutually agreed upon time has been upped to nearly 53%.

ExOW doesn’t know yet that we are expecting our first child together, but we are definitely curious as to how it will affect her attitude.
Let alone mine, as Amiee2 mentioned.

Remember this, there is NO FORMULA for Contact that fits EVERY situation.
There is NO FORMULA for NO Contact that fits EVERY situation.

You and your H must decide via POJA what is best for your family. If one or the other is not enthusiastic about the decision that its not the right one for BOTH of you.

Good Luck to you Butterflie…

Its not an easy road, no matter which Fork you take.

Thank you all for your responses. I will try to answer you guys individually.

Twiisty: I am a godly praying person and I do believe I would love that child as my own. I know my heart and the other people around me who know about OC know my heart so that would not be a problem for me.

Celcal: I live in Missouri.

Mom of Five: Do not paint a picture of me being the bad guy here. Because, I have tried to do the the Godly thing through this whole ordeal. If you read my story H and I have no children together this is his first child. She knew this it has been proven through both parties she tried to purposely get pregnant to take him. I am not a bitter person I would never fight for custody without the approval of God. I believe this child was born for a reason I do not have time to tell you all the circumstances within our marriage regarding having no child. But, trust me God spoke to me in many ways during affair and is speaking to me now. I have a spiritual relationship with him. The mother is sick, she has driven the OC and her daughter down a highway fast pace with no seat belts jeopardizing their life. She stated she wanted nothing from us although we constantly told her we would pay the support and be their for this child. She is a selfish b@#&^ and I have no more pity for her. She constantly tries to sabbotage my marriage and I am fed up. If she continues to act the way she is being irresponsible for that child because she couldn't get my H than the child will be better off with us. I am not bragging about what we have we work hard for our accomplishments. Point being I am the stepmother whether she likes or not and H and I are a team it is no longer a one man show. I have rights as well. She is one who gave me the idea. Kept calling everybody saying we will not take her child from her. Never was an option for us we wanted joint custody and that was it. So there you have it. Have a good day.

TO MAlC: H was very gullible. He was shall we say in the fog. But, now he is awake and we are trying to do what is right for this child. Mother is very unstable See reply addressed to Mom of Five. I am not the evil person Mom of Five has tried to paint me out to be. OC and I are the innocent parties in this matter. And if I feel that God is telling us to fight for full custody we will. My H has rights also. She knew she was sleeping with a MM so whatever happens is for the best you know. She settled for playing second fiddle. God bless you!

Tyme: OW does not want me involved in childs life although I am the better mother for child proven fact. Just because you give birth to a child does not mean you are fit to be a mother she has another child already who my H says she beats and constantly yell at. I even heard her on phone yelling at her. But, it is not about what she wants if H and I stay in marriage I will be involved whether she likes it or not. I was involved when she was sleeping with him knowing he was coming home at night. So all this remains to be seen. I have two teenagers son 18 today, daughter will be 15 in June. I am a part time student, and work full time. I do not want to start over raising someones elses child for real. God bless you!

jtigger
if the father of the chld wanted to have custody for reasons that the child was in a bad environment and was not safe, of course but never should someone try and take a child for revenge which is what we were talking about, I AM NOT TRYING TO DEBATE WITH YOU.
My childs father is in her life and sees her and helps with her.
Does he have a right to custody!? Not in my case but in many I am sure the children are better off ?

Am I special and thats why I think om in my case doesnt have the right to her. NO not at all.
1. HE DOESNT WANT FULL rights.
2.He is older and could not provide her every thing she needs.

3. She is in a good environment and has been with a mother and father [my husband and me.]from day one. WHO love her and never ever change their mind about it.
4. He couldnt make up his mind at first and wanted out , then in her life, He is not stable.
5. He doesnt have a stable marriage and it is more rocky than mine has ever been.
6. He and his wife have stated she is too much for more than a day at a time for them to care for.
7. Courts dont take babies away from their moms for the hell of it, they do it if the child is not in good hands, and why would you or any one want to take a baby away from its mother , just because you think you can.
8. His and his wifes lifestyle do not work with a small toddler and at there age they arent really intrested in being full time parents.


Sorry in most cases it wouldnt happen.
ammee was able to, but they did it for the childrens benefit, seems the children were not in a good environment. And as hard as that was for amee, they did what they needed to do for her husbands children, that has been a great sacrifice for her to have to give and I am sure she does the best she can and should be commended for trying so hard. But if the children were in a bad place they had no choice if they loved the children. and her husband is obviously a good father to do what he thought was best.
so since he [om ] in my case at first did not want a child and said he wanted nothing to do with her and walked away[and I let him] he doesnt have squat for rights. He gave them up, since he changed his mind and wants every thing just perfect and wants daughter to know him, we work with him and allow that. But he wouldnt have a chance in court and he knows it as well as I do. He would have the right to visitation sat up by the courts, but it might not be as liberal as he gets now, and cs would probably kill them, so we all work it out this way.

But since you are so excited about equal rights, sure he has the right to ask for custody, I dont have a problem with that, but I am just saying it should be done for the right reasons, and if the mother of the child can care for her and father can still be in her life as much as he wants, that isnt a good reason, just because the bs has a whim of revenge and thinks she can do better, doesnt mean squat it isnt her child. and you dont take babies away from mothers to please a woman who wants revenge, my god can you imagine what life would be like for that child, even you tigger cant tell me you think that would be fair to this small child.

we can debate mens and womens rights all day and still get no where.
this is about suing for custody for a child because you want revenge, thats ridiculous, why should a woman give up her child just to please the bs.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> That is insane, just like you think the ws should give up the child they created for the bs..... My god why not just live a happy life and make your marriage better than ever and that will be the sweetest revenge ever.
That makes om the craziest, the fact that husband and I are happier than ever. This bothers him more than any amount of custody or support he would have to pay, he hates it. Living well is the best revenge, the rest could very well back fire on you.
jtigger

the bs souse has no rights to ow's child, it isnt hers, yes she has been made a step parent and when she has child she will be the step parent, but she has a choice, remember NO CONTACT.
as far as standard of living goes, as long as the child is loved has a good home, a roof over her head, clothes to wear, is clean, well fed, getting an education, there is othing to say the child will be better cared for or loved from a family who has more money, I bet those few on here who have had oney problems, would disagree that there children should be taken because they dont make as much as the rest of us.
My husband makes more than om, does it make him a better parent!? NO, WHAT makes him a better parent is he is selfless, he gives of him self for his children, he works hard and does his very best to provide for them, He is loving and spends his free time being a parent and nurturing them. He loves and is concerned for them at all times, he would give up any thing for his children and has often.
If om had a certain type of activity planned and it required him to miss it for his children, [any of them not just mine] He would pick his activity over his children any time. and he is very matter of fact about that and this has been a great source of frustration for his older children. It has not affected my daughter, because she always has my husband who loves having the role as daddy and will always be special in her heart.

When I got pregnant, his first words to me were, Do you realise if you have this baby, we wont be able to do as much, and you will always want to stay home with the baby when she is sick, what about me!?? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> That was his biggest concern.

stacia that quote was in respnse to the semen comment, comments like that are sickening and serve no purpose, and yes someone who talks such as that would scare me around my children, someone who thinks children should be treated as the inconvience they are, should not be around a child if that person feels that way. that is what tyme said, and I am sorry you feel that way, but as a mother this statement makes me sick and NO I would not want this person around my child.
doesnt have any thing to do with being an x ow, has to do with being a mother, one day when you have a child of your own you might see that.
You however spend most of your time counting the min you get over ow, another example, are you there to love the child or prove you can have more min than she, whats the point,

MAYBE JUST maybe all your husbands picked women who are trash and are bad mothers, and dont give a crap about there kids, if thats the case, the go for it, take care of the child and love them with all your heart.

But I just do not believe every single one of these women are crazy and beat there children, and only wanted their children because the mm is so precious they thought it would trap him.

Maybe just maybe some of them are like that, just like some of the bs are crazy as well, but you cant think all of them are, it just doesnt happen like that for the most part.

Isn't it possible some of these people are normal every day people who love there children and do a very good job raising them.

I do know there are many people who are not good parents, we see it in society every day, but do I believe every single one of these ow are this bad, NO I DOUBT IT.

and if they are, where the heck do your husbands find these women and what does they say about them ?

funny om and my husband have the same opinion as me about some of the stories on this site and I am sure a few others who are afraid to speak do as well.

once again you guys have given me a reason to be glad we have what we have... good luck,

<small>[ March 17, 2003, 12:45 PM: Message edited by: mom of five ]</small>

To Mom of Five: No one is proclaiming every OW is insane will you please just calm down. Your H thinks like you no wonder you are together. It has proven OW in my case is insane and it will not be in best interest of OC to be with her. I am not a judge nor jury however, right is right and wrong is wrong. I am not trying to be bitter, revengeful any of that. I do not I repeat do not want to sit at home and raise a baby at this time in my life have 2 wonderful teenagers and very happen with the successfulness of me and H raising them without biological father assistance. My point which seems to have went completely over your head is the environment is better here than their if you knew us trust me you would agree. Enough said no other reply needed from you.

aahh but that isnt what you said butterfly

You said </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">However, I could make her life miserable like she has done mine. I could have her child and my husband. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">what else would I think

still a bad reason to have a child.
sorry just my opinion. My husband thinks children should know both parents, thats why we include om in our lives as much as we do.


But your right, we are getting along great and I am very happy with him, hsnt always been this way, but glad it is now.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

So before you make blanket statements you should think about what they imply.

I want to point out to you MO5 that I in no way attacked you, your H, your OM or his wife in my above statement.
I in no way attacked your H’s choice of women, nor your OM’s.

So, why is it that you attacked me? Especially with the ONE thing you know my H and I have worked so hard for over these years? A child of my own.

Contrary to your belief, and your statements, I do have children. They may not be mine by blood, but as I have said to you before they are MINE by LOVE.
Lil Bit may be the OC from the A, and my stepson may be from my H’s previous marriage, but both of these children are MINE… MY children to love and cherish until the end of time.
Both call me Mom/Mommy and I love them both dearly.

As for what I meant by “simplistic view,” you rarely empathize with any of the Newbies who are just beginning with this process… and you rarely take the time to consider that they are just learning how to deal with this pain.

Take a little more time and be a little more compassionate.

Momof5,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">.....has to do with being a mother, one day when you have a child of your own you might see that.

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

This was VERY uncalled for! I know that you have been around for a long time, and so would realize the pain and trials that Stacia and Mr "Lee" have been through just TRYING to conceive! She has been more of a mother to Lil Bit than the xOW has ever been! She doesn't count the min to keep score, she counts them for her proof that they should be recognized as having majority of custody! I know for a fact that they have only Lil Bit's safety and well being in mind, not to "hurt xOW"!

I see nothing in Stacia's post that was attacking you to provoke such a painful "counter attack"! They have fairly successful visitation/shared custody of Lil Bit, and fought to have it so! Yes, I am sticking up for her cause she's my friend, but I would respond in kind for any other poster on this board, whether I was friends with them, or they were new to this board. That is what we are here for, support!

Tigger