Why are we each others' worst enemies? I blame only him, my H. Why do most women on this board blame each other? Even in the work world, women are not kind to each other. Why? Are we more insecure than the men, as a whole?

Comments please.

ember

You know I have always wondered about that my self.. I think your first guess is correct, we dont trust each other, we have been burned by a woman and we think it is easier to be angry at women than keep being angry at our spouses.. and as much as we hate to admit it, our spouses having an affair causes great strain on our self esteem, which may have been suffering any way. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

so what do we do ? we want the cheating man to stay with us, sometimes out of love, then maybe out of fear... and hope love comes back, a thousand reason but the one fact that doesnt change is we have learned to dislike women and not trust them..

I used to blame these women for all these problems, well, heck he could have said no and how much chasing did he do.. I know I never did any chasing with om... how do I know my husband wasnt the one doing the chasing ? He sure as heck didnt say NO.
I have always marveled at the way men are with each other... look at my husband and om, heck they now work closely together all the time, and both do very well at it.. I dont know how my husband does it, but he does.. and doesnt seem to have a problem with it... I am the only one who hates it.. and I hear his wife doesnt understand how they can do it... I would guess in some areas men are the stronger ones.. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Hi ember,

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> I have where read BS's say that it is easier to blame the OP in order to stay forgiving and loving toward their WS.

I think it is human to be insecure or fearful, but women probably discuss our fears more than the men do. I also tend to think that women are more vulnerable to emotional reactions than men.

Do you think treating each other mean is a result of being insecure? Or more from a result of being hurt?

But you're right, if women are hurt by men, why hate each other? Perhaps because men use women to hurt women? Maybe they don't intend to, but that is the end result and that is what women respond to the most.

<small>[ March 26, 2003, 01:44 PM: Message edited by: BINthereDUNthat ]</small>

Maybe if the OW acts like an adult about the situation there would no need to be so mean toward them. In my case OW is so ignorant she has a big problem with me. Therefore what is one to do.

In my opinion I dislike them both the same. There is a 50/50 fault on their part. If OW will grow up and count their losses then maybe BS or otherwise would have no need to hate them.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

Thanks for responding.

mo5, what does who is chasing who, have to do with it? A person does not have to chase, they just have to be available.

btdt, "it is easier to blame the OP". This would be displaced anger.

bf, "my OW is ignorant". But my exOW was highly intelligent, and a nice person. I spent a whole week-end with OW as a guest in her home. That had to take a lot of guts on her part. She even left me alone with both OC's for about 6 hrs. I met her mother and sisters. All OW are not ignorant.

It was closure for both of us in a way. Maybe, if my H dies before I do, I'll speak with her again.

I just do not feel the hate and blame towards my OW, as many of you here do.

I have been in recovery with H for seven years now. It never does go away. But, I still only blame my H.

ember

I blame BOTH of them 100%, my Husband and the ex-ow. They are BOTH to blame. Personally, some posts or threads in the past came up and I agree, that women should look out for each other, The whole "sisterhood" thing. The fact that ex-ow knew that some of these married men were married is a big slap in the face.

FOR THOSE THAT DIDN'T KNOW THE MAN WAS MARRIED, I DON'T BLAME AS MUCH AS THOSE WHO DO AND WENT AHEAD ANYWAY.

Had to make that disclaimer. Ultimately, it was the two selfish parties (the WS and ex-ow) that bear the blame in this case as far as I'm concerned.

Regardless of the state of the marriage, it doesn't warrant looking outside of the covenant of marriage for answers that may require some type of counseling.

My .o2 cents that doesn't mean much....

Twiisty

once again I was only talking about me and my situation meaning I blamed mostly the other women in my husbands life, when it wasnt just them, but my husband played a huge part in that... he knew he was married, they new he was married, but it lies with him, I dont expect them to be loyal to me, just him...

I think I blamed the other people because it was easier to do that than hate my husband... however I believe om and I are on equal footing, we both knew what we were doing, we both wanted to any way.. so we should both take responsibility for our actions.. so we do.. I dont blame my husband although I know how my marriage deteriorated and led me to what I did. it ultimately is my responsibility. Just as om knew what he was doing to my husband and didnt feel bad about it either..
by the way ember you asked for an opinion I gave it reguarding my thoughts not what I thought you needed to hear... and thats what I think...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by ember:
<strong>Thanks for responding.

...btdt, "it is easier to blame the OP". This would be displaced anger...
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So what does a BS do with all their hurt and anger if they want to proceed with their recovery and stay loving and forgiving toward their WS? Where do they place the hurt and anger?

Would it be healthy to keep the anger brewing toward the WS? I don't see how complete recovery could take place if the BS continues to harbor resentment toward the spouse?

It's a tough situation. How can you just pretend like nothing happened when there is an OC in the world? You can't?!

Surviving An Affair says that there are three (3) people who contributed to the affair. The BS, the WS and the OP. That's what the book says... that everyone has a role and everyone has responsibilities to focus on and everyone needs to change whatever they did to contribute.

btdt, you bring up some valid points. I can only answer how I feel.

You asked about resentment. When my H had his affair, he sometimes treated me with resentment. I didn't know what, or why, was going on, therefore I tried even harder to be the perfect wife, while working 56 hrs. per week, and raising the children. I waited on H like a king. I loved him so.

Now I choose to live with H, my resentment, and the whole package. You asked me how I do it. My H is just a changed person. He proves to me every day of my life how much he loves me. I couldn't leave now if I wanted too. I have never been treated so well in my entire life!!!

"How can you pretend OC's do not exist." (or something like that). H and I have talked at least every other day about A for first several years after d-day. We do not pretend it didn't happen. Actually my H has had two open-heart sugeries, and now has cancer. He hung up on one OC two years ago when OC called to speak with him(we have NC, H's choice). Now he is getting up in years, and I am asking him to call, or at least write a letter to his 2 OC's to receive upon his death. He refuses the whole idea.

What do I do with my hurt and anger(which is less each day)? I pray.

Why do I stay. Resentment and anger can turn into love. No one said it would be overnight. I love my H more each day because of the wonderful changes he has added to our marriage, and our life.

I still do not blame OW. But you know what's weird? H and I had a conversation recently. I told him that many wives blame the OW on this board, and I do not. He said, "I don't blame them. She knew I was married." I looked at him and told him that she was not the one that made vows to me, or promises.

I hope I answered some of your questions.

Wishing you well,

ember

i think everyone is putting way to much thought into this question. i feel the answer comes down to womens insecurity in the fact that our society has the perception that all men are out to hunt down and "score" as many women <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> as they can. this leads to women seeing all other women as competition <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> bringing on insecurity.

on the other hand for men if it doesn't have anything to do with some form of ball (golf, baseball, football, etc.) it isn't competition. they are generally so arrogant <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> in themselves as "God's gift to women" that they see every other male as an insignificant other <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> in the "love" arena. thus no compitition <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

i think that this is true until recently in our cultural history. but as women have become more and more independent they have started turning the tables in this matter. i know i for one will most likely always have the fear of fh looking around. will she? i don't think so but i also don't know for sure.

on the anger towards op that's very easy to answer. as someone said previous it is "displaced anger". it is much easier to have anger for someone that you don't know then for someone you have loved for so long. doesn't excuse your ws but it certainly makes reconciliation much easier. if "easier" is even possible here. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

i blame fh and om for different reasons. fh obviously made herself available <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> i don't care if om wanted to cheat on his w with 1000 women. they should have all been single women. he showed no respect for the institution of my marriage <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> even though he knew i was trying to save it. NOTE. i am not saying that it is alright to cheat with a single op. just that if you don't care about your own mariage at least leave someone elses alone.

Who do I blame for the A?

Both my H and OW. In our case, from the start, the OW knew my H was married, and that he never had any intention of leaving the marriage for her. Even when he started having emotional feelings for her, he was not going to do it. She knew that from the outset-so why get involved with a MM if you know there is no future-

In our case, I can think of a few reasons-she got the child she wanted, with a hefty CS payment, from a pretty attractive male, something she was not able to do with her ex-husband and she worried her biological clock was ticking and she never would have a child.

IN her world, she didn't care what she was doing to me or my kids or anyone, just her own pleasure. Even my H admits during A, despite his great daddy routine, that when involved with OW he wasn't thinking of how it would hurt me and our kids and family and his parents, etc. It was pure selfishness on his part. The selfishness that persists in destroying love.

I hate the OW and always will, but let me be perfectly clear. She is the top of my very short enemy list-- I hate very little. But she deserves my wrath for harming me and me precious kids.
But, even given that, I would never do what she did to me to another woman, or her, for that matter. It has been so devastating to me-including the many miscarriages I have suffered-- that I would not wish it on my worst enemy. And that clearly is the OW.

uhappy wife

Sometimes what we think is destroyed merely needs some work and effort on our parts. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I hope things improve for you

You know, I usually stay away from replying to these types of threads, but felt that I just had to in this case!

In 2 cases, I blame the xOW, but for a different reason! The first was H's first A, in which I used to help the xOW and her H out by taking her H and their D(who wasn't her H's by the way) home from the ship! She was basically using me as a taxi service while plotting to sleep w/my H! How do I know this, well she has a HUGE history of it! She was M'd when she got P by another man, D'd that H and M'd yet another sucker! Then she had an A with my H and then D'd her current H! To top that off, before we transferred, H got an email from her! Yet another last name, that's why he opend the email! He told me about it that same day, and I told him that if he got anymore, to forward them to our home! He never responded, and has not received any more from her! Now, if that's not her chasing my H, I don't know what is!!!!

The second, I don't necessarily blame solely for the A, but for the pain that it caused me! See, she met H when he first got to the last duty station, and befriended him! Well, it was too close of a friendship, and she started the A with him! What I blame her for is her two-faced, back-stabbing ability to claim friendship to me, saying my H was like the little brother she'd never had, saying that she'd be there for me while my H was deployed.....I could go on! Then to find out it was all a cover! This all came out after our D-day in July! I have always wanted to confront these two with what they had done to me! But, especially the last! Who knows, maybe if she had returned a few phone calls, I wouldn't have befriended the group in which I met the xOM! No, I'm not trying to place my blame somewhere else, but I do often wonder about that!

Ok, I just had to get that off my chest. Back to your regular programming. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

tigger, I am so sorry to hear your story of hurt. You were not only betrayed by your H, but also a friend you trusted. How awful!

Your post gave me more insight as to where your situation is so different than mine. I was betrayed by only one person, you were betrayed by two. How painful it must have been for you.

ember

tigger
must be a military thing,
If I had a thousand dollars for every woman invited into my home because of my military wife obligations that later ended up in my bed with hubby, I <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> would be a rich woman.

<small>[ March 30, 2003, 03:35 PM: Message edited by: mom of five ]</small>