it's clear that everyone on these boards has very strong feelings about nc. the bottom line for almost all seems to be a loud and reasonant cry for nc, no exceptions.

but for those raising an om's child, how did you come to your decision?
how did you decided between nc, some contact, lots of contact, etc?
was it more based on what your m needed than what you thought the child would need?
did you make the decision before or after the baby was born?
did the decision about what (if anything) you'll tell the child when it's older come into play? or was it based purely on the present situation?
how did you come to an agreement if ww and bh didn't agree? how can poja be used effectively here?
were the feelings/desires of the om a factor at all?
how did you make this decision rationally and logically when there's so much emotion involved?!

i know there're several couples out there with very different situations and i'd love input from all of you.

thanks so much,

amy

<small>[ April 08, 2003, 11:31 AM: Message edited by: Amethyst03 ]</small>

Amethyst03,

Well, we've not had contact w/xOM in almost 3 yrs, and, as far as we know, he never even knew of the pregnancy, let alone Abbi's birth! One of the biggest reasons is that xOM had threatened my H's life after attacking H on D-day! So, for all of our safety, we decided to not even worry about xOM's feelings or desires, as further contact would give him oportunity to cause more problems down the road! Anyone who could attack another, and then tell you that the only thing keeping him from killing the other person was my D looking out the front window is not worthy of knowing he donated his sperm!

As for telling Abbi, when she is older, we still have the police report, and will tell her what we know and leave it up to her! I personally hope that she is so happy with us as parents that she will not search xOM out! But, if she does choose to search him out, we will support her decision!

In fact, we knew that I was expecting before xOM left the area, and didn't tell him a thing, I'd had no contact with him since 4 days after d-day when the cops were called again for harassment, as he wouldn't leave the doorway trying to talk to me till I picked up the phone telling him I was calling the cops! It's such a long sorted story, but ultimately, my H and I had decided that we were going to save our M(this was also before we knew I was P) and I didn't see any need to ever talk to xOM again! He refused to leave when told I didn't want to talk to him, and the rest is history! 3 weeks later, he was gone. I'd heard from him one other time when we had signed on to IM, and this was about 3 mos. later. Needless to say, he wasn't nice, and it was actually my H signed on. We didn't respond, and that's the last we heard. Since then, we've changed our IM and internet service a few times, so unless he really wants to find us, he won't be able to!

OOPS!!! I guess that I just went crazy with typing here! Hope I didn't go on too much. Just our situation, experience and reasoning for NC w/xOM.

Tigger

Amy,

We're in a no contact situation, which I believe is best for the marriage.

In our case, the OM knew about the pregnancy, and as the affair went sour, he threatened my wife with legal action to get custody of the child (an empty threat, of course). I think she countered back with threatening to expose their affair to his wife---the OM and his wife were in the middle of a nasty divorce fight, which included a custody battle for their three children---and his wife knew nothing (I believe) about the affair.

We haven't heard from the OM since (except for a hang-up call from him when our child was about 3 months old).

From a marriage standpoint, it certainly is easier to deal with no contact. From a "risk to the marriage" view, I don't think that there would have been much risk after My wife and OM drained each other's "lovebank accounts" in the fighting that went on during the affairs end. My wife and I "made" this decision after the affair ended (no contact with OM), but OM wasn't involved much in that process. If he decided to instigate contact, we would deal with it as best we could.

From the child's point of view---I am not convinced that the child would "need" to be involved in the OM's life. That it would be of great benefit. It would certainly be a confusing situation---he would be "different" than his other two siblings. He would also have the OM's three other siblings as brothers/sisters, and perhaps even have to deal with the OM's xW. Our OC has a father who adores him, and is completely integrated into his family without any realization that he is different. We have never asked for any child support for this child---it's not something that we "need".

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">did the decision about what (if anything) you'll tell the child when it's older come into play? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">We haven't POJA'ed what (if anything) we will tell the kids. I'm more in favor of telling, and my wife is opposed to this. In regards to this, it's a POJA "do nothing" situation.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">were the feelings/desires of the om a factor at all? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">From my standpoint, I don't know the feelings or desires of the OM. And I'm not too concerned about them---it was his "feeling" and "desires" that contributed to this mess in the first place. If he suddenly appeared wanting to be involved in this child's life, I'd be asking him some very hard questions as to "why". It's unlikely that he would be able to come up with an answer that would convince me that it was in our child's best interest---it would likely be for some self-centered reason. Unless I could "see the light" for positive influences to come from contact with him, we would likely fight any such attempts.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">how did you make this decision rationally and logically when there's so much emotion involved?!</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You do the best you can. It's extremely difficult to come up with a situation in which all these affected people come out as winners:

Betrayed spouse
Waywared spouse
Other Child
Spouses children
Other Man
Other Man's wife
OW's other children

Based on that, I feel very strongly that the marriage is the most important entity here---and that the children will prosper and thrive if raised within the boundraries of a healthy, supportive marriage. So, when in doubt, I would try to make decisions that you know will strenghten the marriage, and avoid situations in which you believe that the marriage will be compromised or strained.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> it's clear that everyone on these boards has very strong feelings about nc. the bottom line for almost all seems to be a loud and reasonant cry for nc, no exceptions.

but for those raising an om's child, how did you come to your decision? Husband and I decided since he wanted to be involved it was his right, and we didnt want our daughter to feel we lied to her.
how did you decided between nc, some contact, lots of contact, etc? We have pretty generic contact, no set schedule, he just calls me and I say yes and he comes and gets her, he is welcome to come by and see her any time, and to call any time, however he usually respects his boundries. She has contact with him and his wife, it was what we thought best for daughter. we are her parents and they play a small secondary roll.

was it more based on what your m needed than what you thought the child would need?

Our mariage needed for there to be no more secrets, and this was a mutual way to achieve that, however, we based this as a couple on what we thought best for our daughter.


did you make the decision before or after the baby was born? After , in fact a year and half after. OM had been told he could not have contact with his child by his wife, in time he decided he couldnt live that way, and told her she may join or leave but he would be seeing her.

did the decision about what (if anything) you'll tell the child when it's older come into play? or was it based purely on the present situation?
Both, we felt it was better to do when she was young, and we were concerned about the effects of our secrets later in life. We wanted her to be proud of who she was, and just because her parents made a bad choice, doesnt mean either one of us think she is a mistake, we all love her and are happy she is here.

how did you come to an agreement if ww and bh didn't agree? how can poja be used effectively here? I wouldnt make a final decision untill both parties you and your husband can compromise, lots of compromising, we have come along way, in the beggining I made most of the decisions, husband prefered to ignore it, maybe it would all go away, after all he felt he was losing his daughter. He now is very active in the decision making and we have come along way in our marriage, I can say I am happy for the most part.

were the feelings/desires of the om a factor at all? They were involved some, however when he walked away in the begining I feel he gave up his right to choose. husband and I decided to work with him. OM and my husband now spend part of every week together, including dinner and work related activities. They both do very well.om and I are not enemies, and we have contact, way more than most here would agree with, but he and I felt it would be better for daughter to have two parents who could be together in the same room and be pleasant and let her know its ok to love us all.

how did you make this decision rationally and logically when there's so much emotion involved?

Lots of crying , praying, but ultimately as parents we feel we should be able to handle things for our children,and daughter deserved to know she had a birth father out there and she deserved to know every thing about her self, and that we loved her enough to allow her to love us all. om isnt a bad person, and he is capable of loving her so why shouldnt they have that, it oesnt take away from husband, because he will always have a special place for her in his heart, and he will always be her daddy. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

i know there're several couples out there with very different situations and i'd love input from all of you.

thanks so much,
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">--------------------------------------------------

We seem to be the unusual group on this board, but I firmly believe if all parties can be mature it can work out well for all, but especially for that innocent baby.
There have been problems, but we have managed to figure them all out in time. There was even a time I felt no contact would be best so I wouldnt have to deal with his wife , who is off the wall at times. But that has been taken care of by a little time and patience with us all.
I wish you luck, i know how hard this is. has been a long road.

<small>[ April 08, 2003, 12:56 PM: Message edited by: mom of five ]</small>

thank you tigger and k...

i'm gonna give a bit more info and maybe get some insight into what some of you would do in my situation in light of your situations.

my h and i haven't come to a firm decision either way about contact or nc. my h would understandably never like to see om ever again. things are still quite fresh right now, so i'm not sure if this is about protecting the baby or protecting himself. this is not about physical safety though, more emotional.

we haven't made a decision about what we'll tell this child either. truth is, it's been awhile since we talked about it. the last time though, i think we were both leaning more towards telling him (it's a boy) at some point when he's older. my feelings are that i'd rather tell him who his biological father is, knowing that they at least know eachother. i don't want to throw him into a relationship with someone who's a complete stranger. i know it'll be up to him (our son) if he wants a relationship or not, but i guess i'd like to make it as painless for him as possible (if possible).

the om in this case is not a psycho. is not violent. and notwithstanding some very poor judgement (of which i am equally guilty, if not more so), he's a really good guy. he's someone that i'd like this child to know.

that being said, we live in different cities (about 8 hours apart) so it's not like it would be a close or constant amount of contact. om lives in the same city as my family and a lot of my friends, so i'd like him to be just one other person we visit when we go see grandma and grandpa. that way, when we do tell him that om is his bio-father i can say, "see he did love you and did want to be part of your life, i just chose a better daddy for you." well i don't know exactly what i'll say, but you get the idea.

is this unrealistic? to you who are further along than me, does this seem do-able? how about in light of harley's nc rule? i know there would have to be a ton of understanding all around and it may not be possible.

i also know i have to be very careful about taking my h's feelings into account. hopefully, we'll have a chance to talk about it more tonight.

lemme know what your thoughts are...

amy

we must've posted at the same time mof5 cause i didn't see your response. thanks so much for taking the time to write!

i definitely see your situation as being closest to my own - as far as the om is concerned. i too feel like this little boy should know where he came from and should be able to be loved by as many people as are able and willing (and since i'm already completely biased, i don't see why everyone shouldn't love and adore him!). even though om has told me he'll respect whatever decision my h and i make, i know he'd really like to have some sort of involvement.

that's how i feel about om, but i know h feels very differently.

so i know (or think i know) what will be best for baby, but i also have to consider what's going to be best for h and for our marriage. i guess i'm hoping those two things will meet in the middle somewhere.

thanks again for your reply,

amy

amethyst,

How "over" the affair are you. You discuss how the OM is such a terrific guy---how he just made a mistake. If I were your husband, I'd probably be very worried where I stood in terms of the marriage and your loyalities. That's one of the primary reasons for no-contact. If the affair hasn't ended so that you and the OP hate each other, then there is always the possibility that an affair can rekindle. Especially when "co-parenting"---there are lots of opportunities for love bank deposits by the OP through the child.

In general, it's a situation that I would advise you to avoid. Especially early in recovery.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">i too feel like this little boy should know where he came from and should be able to be loved by as many people as are able and willing (and since i'm already completely biased, i don't see why everyone shouldn't love and adore him!). </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I know you're serious when you write this, but I'm wondering what kind of fantasy land you live in. How sure are you that the OM is going to always feel this way about a child he really isn't going to know that well (he's not getting 50% custody here). What about the OM's wife (when he gets one)? How's she going to react? How is your son going to react when "uncle OM" has to cut him out of his life for one reason or another.

There are plenty of opportunities for contact to NOT be a good thing. Mathematically speaking, lets say there's a 50% chance for you and husband to divorce (causing your son great trauma). Let's give the same 50% chance for your OM to "harm" your son with a terminated relationship. Put both of them together and you get a 75% chance that one or the other will happen to him.

I'd mimimize the risk to this right now, by concentrating on your marriage. If you and your husband can do such a terrific job on this that you end up agreeing (via POJA) that visitation with OM might be OK---then I'm good with that. Otherwise, I'd tell you not to worry about OM right now, and concentrate on your marriage.

Amethyst03,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">so i know (or think i know) what will be best for baby, but i also have to consider what's going to be best for h and for our marriage. i guess i'm hoping those two things will meet in the middle somewhere. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The above statement worries me. Why, because you are basically saying that you will compromise with your M and the OM! I agree with K on the question of where your feelings are about the A and OM. You speak so highly of him, but what about your H and your M?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> om lives in the same city as my family and a lot of my friends, so i'd like him to be just one other person we visit when we go see grandma and grandpa. that way, when we do tell him that om is his bio-father i can say, "see he did love you and did want to be part of your life, i just chose a better daddy for you." well i don't know exactly what i'll say, but you get the idea. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This worries me as well. Because, if you only "visit" and then later in life tell him that this "friend" is really his bio-father, that's almost worse as all that time he believes that OM is just a friend! Think of the reaction, no matter how you word it!

Please, think long and hard about this, and also work together w/your H on your final decision! Even in cases such as your's, where OM is not a psychopath, I still believe that NC is the best way to go! Especially if you want to save your M and have it last! Of course, that's just my $0.02!

Tigger

k -

how "over" the affair am i? i'll admit that i'm not "over" it if being over it means that it's ended in a way that om and i hate each other. how can i hate om when this baby is half of him? that's definitely something that i've struggled with - trying to take how i feel about om, the a, and myself for getting involved with him and reconcile that to the love i have for this baby. any ideas?

i don't think that i said that om is simply a terrific guy who "just" made a mistake. what i was trying to say is that i wouldn't be afraid of om being a part of this baby's life. he wouldn't be a physical threat or a terrible influence, etc.

you're right that i don't know if om is going to always feel this way about this child or how his future wife will react. nor do i or my h know how this child will react when and if we tell him about his bio father. it's all a guessing game at this point. that's why i asked the question! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

i realize that there are as many pros as cons to having contact with om. the pros seem to have more to do with the baby; the cons to do with my m and h. will i risk my m and my h's happiness/peace of mind/trust in me by insisting on contact with om? no way!

tigger -

like i said in response to k, i'm not willing to sacrifice my m over contact with om. but i do think the word compromise has a place in this whole discussion. that's what the whole poja thing is all about, isn't it?

my feelings for om have nothing to do with my feelings for my h. i do still have feelings for him and likely always will. many of these are tied up in this baby. i can't separate the two. maybe some day. i can and have talked about this with my h, with the whole point being that my feelings for om don't matter in my m! they can't!

my m and my h are the priorities here which is why i've said over and over that i have to consider my h's feelings in this and be sensitive to them... even if we don't agree. i'm not going to make any sort of decision about contact without him being just as comfortable and enthusiastic about it.

i want to be clear where my priorities are here:
i WILL NOT compromise my m in order for this child to have contact with om.
i WILL NOT risk hurting my h over this any more than i have.
i WILL NOT make any decision without using the poja.
i WILL work with my h to come to a decision that we feel with not only be best for this child, but also for our m.

i know there're a lot of questions, a lot of possibilities, and a lot of variables to consider. and as always, any input is greatly appreciated. even if i've been misunderstood at times, it'll make me more careful in choosing my words when i talk to h about this.

thanks all,

amy

<small>[ April 08, 2003, 05:25 PM: Message edited by: Amethyst03 ]</small>

K
if a bio father is going to be involved in a childs life then as parents of our children we all know it is healthier if parents get along and dont spew hate about the other parent..
so that being said if she chooses or om chooses to have contact with his child[depending on the state he may do that] then it is better for the child to not see hate between parents.

Om is not going to hate me, and I doubt I will hate him, disusted at times, frustrated with stupidity, yes, all of the above, but i dont hate him and would never let my daughter hear or see me talk badly of him. It isnt to protect him, it is to protect her.

I dont know what state she lives in, but I will tell you in this state om may take me to court even though husband is on bc, for several years after her birth, and i will have no say... The ball isnt always in your court.

amythist

I didnt allow om in our lives till my husband agreed also it was best.
and dealing with his wife has not been easy to say the least, and even dealing with him will not be easy..
but he loves my daughter he isnt going to stop.
how do any of the wives whos husband divorced them know they wont stop seeing thier own children.. They would like to believe they wouldnt, but they dont really know till it happens, and we see it every day in this world.

as far as om seeking custody/visitation or taking us to court, we're looking into that. we're in canada (the great white north <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ), so i have no idea if our laws are the same as the states, which seem to differ from eachother anyways.

just today, i sent off a list of questions regarding prenatal adoption, regular adoption, parental rights, cs, etc to a family friend who's a lawyer. hopefully we'll hear back from him and can "get the ball rolling" on this soon.

amy

Amy,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">i WILL NOT compromise my m in order for this child to have contact with om.
i WILL NOT risk hurting my h over this any more than i have.
i WILL NOT make any decision without using the poja.
i WILL work with my h to come to a decision that we feel with not only be best for this child, but also for our m.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Ahhh, now that's what I wanted to hear...
I'm sure that I've sent you in the direction of the Harley's phone counseling, but if I haven't, I'll remind you that Steve and Jenn are terrific coaches who handle these situations very well. 888-639-1639 for appointments. And hopefully it's toll-free from Canada.

And you ask:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">how can i hate om when this baby is half of him?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well, it's certainly possible. My wife hates and fears her former lover. It simply depends on how the affair ended. It's got nothing to do with the child.

I'm also not convinced of the "pros" of your child having a relationship with the OM, at least in the first 12 years or so. I grew up in what apparently is rather unique circumstances---there was no divorce in our extended family. None. I see great benefit in a stable marriage, and shielding children from destabilizing influences. This is one situation where I would suggest that the cons outweigh the pros pretty significantly. A cost-benefit risk analysis would say that there's not a huge upside, and that there's limited downside should you go the "no-contact" route.

MO5:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">if a bio father is going to be involved in a childs life then as parents of our children we all know it is healthier if parents get along and dont spew hate about the other parent...</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm in absolute agreement here. Amy's issue is more whether the OM should be involved. He's not insisted this yet. My general advice for women who find themselves pregnant with an OC is to:
1. Not tell OM, until H and W have had time to make decisions.
2. If OM is noncommital, then go NC
3. If OM insists on involvement, then be an adult about it.

But those are increasing levels of difficulty, of course.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Om is not going to hate me, and I doubt I will hate him, disusted at times, frustrated with stupidity, yes, all of the above, but i dont hate him and would never let my daughter hear or see me talk badly of him. It isnt to protect him, it is to protect her.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I understand. But again, it's an extra level of complication in your daughter's life, and something else that you have to worry about. And you yourself have mentioned at times, you wish you did have NC. Your path is not easy---I believe that you're making it work to the best of your ability, but I'm guessing that your situation would have been easier had the OM never known about the pregnancy.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I dont know what state she lives in, but I will tell you in this state om may take me to court even though husband is on bc, for several years after her birth, and i will have no say... The ball isnt always in your court.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well, I don't know what state you are in. In our state, it is up to the OM to take you to court. They have to prove that the child is theirs. If the OM has known about the parentage since the pregancy and they do not pursue court action within a year or two---the courts tend to throw out this type of petition, essentially invalidating any "right" the OM has to claiming parentage. You are right, there are no guarantees. Your comment that "you will have no say..." is in error---you will still be the custodial parent, and you will simply be forced into a coparenting arrangement that you might not have wanted (and you will also receive child support).

The only worrisome issue that I can see from a legal standpoint is if the OM did not know of the pregnancy, and eventually comes to sue to establish paternity AND sue for fraud (pain/suffering)... rarely, these cases can end up in favor of the OM.

Amy,

I apologize for barging into this discussion, but you said a few things I would like to address. You said </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> like i said in response to k, i'm not willing to sacrifice my m over contact with om. but i do think the word compromise has a place in this whole discussion. that's what the whole poja thing is all about, isn't it?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No, the word compromise is NOT POJA. POJA is to arrive at an position that YOU BOTH are happy with. Further, I think you need to realize that before a POJA such as you envision can occur, time must pass. I think you are getting the cart before the horse. Rebuild the marriage, have the baby, adjust to having a baby in your life and marriage (no small feat), and THEN decide what to do with OM. The baby isn't going to realize many things for many years, so give this time and do the work on the marriage. That would be my suggestion.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">my feelings for om have nothing to do with my feelings for my h.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Oh My! Amy you have a lot to learn. Your feelings for OM have a lot to do with your feelings for your H. And they have a lot to do with how your H feels about the marriage, taking on the responsibility of raising this child. I realize they won't completely go away, hence Dr. Harley's No Contact. He knows feelings lie under the surface and never completely go away for long periods of time. But, please realize that these feelings do affect you and therefore your H. How much is probably a function of the health of your marriage.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">i do still have feelings for him and likely always will. many of these are tied up in this baby. i can't separate the two. maybe some day.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I just addressed your feelings, and I am not going to try to argue out your feelings for OM being tied up with the baby. But I do urge you to see this baby as itself NOT a representation of the OM. You are in fact asking your H to do this. You expect him to treat this baby well, although he hates the OM. You will expect him to treat this child as any other you two have together.

I am not trying to say to you to just stop. I know you cannot, but I hope that others here can offer some guidance as to how to separate feelings for the baby from feelings for the OM.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">i can and have talked about this with my h, with the whole point being that my feelings for om don't matter in my m! they can't!
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">But, the do, don't they. The OM is part of this entire discussion and the cause of your questions on this thread. The OM is a BIG part of your marriage, and your decision process right now. Your H knows this and I am sure is extremely frightened about where this may go. He hopes that the marriage will be something great, but he fears the OM. That is my bet.

Amy, will return you to your regularly scheduled programing and the people here who know a lot more about this situation than I.

God Bless,

JL

k -

thanks for your reply. i've thought about doing the phone call thing with the harleys... then i looked at the cost. sorry, the cdn dollar isn't doing THAT well yet! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> maybe if h and i were making the pound...

since we've just moved to a new city, we're still in the process of finding a new mc. we have a few leads though. and h's uncle (who's a pastor at a huge church here) has arranged for the church to pay if we go through certain places. it's on my list to check out this week.

i can appreciate what you said about having a stable home life for this baby. my h and i have 18 sets of aunts and uncles and of those there've only been 2 divorces, which have happened quite recently. it wasn't something that either of us had to deal with growing up. we both know what a challenge it's going to be to live up to the standards that our parents have set for us. i'd love more than anything to give my kids the kind of home that i grew up in. definitely something to think about...

jl -

thank you for "barging in" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

i guess i have some more reading to do on poja. i think when i used the word "compromise" i was refering more to myself. i know how i feel about it right now (which may change), but i also know that i'm not going to risk putting my h through any more he!! over this than i already have. so if that means that i have to "compromise" in order to make him feel happy, loved, and secure in his role as daddy to his baby, then that's what i'll do.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">my feelings for om have nothing to do with my feelings for my h.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">i'm gonna clarify this...

yes, i still have feelings for om. no, these are not the all-consuming thoughts of love/desire/passion/whatever that i had before. i think about him. i wonder how he's doing. i wonder how his mother, sister, bil, and our other mutual friends (who i have no contact with anymore) are doing. i'm not afraid of him. i don't hate him. BUT i also don't get sad and depressed when i think about him anymore. i can't/couldn't live that way! so if i happen to think about him now, i let it be a fond or happy memory then i move on! i don't dwell on it. i don't pine over him. i don't let it affect me - and therefore my h - for the whole day.

that's what i meant about my feelings for om not affecting my m. yeah, they could. very easily. and once in a while i slip and they DO affect things. but not often. cause i don't let them. i can't! you're right, om will always have some sort of place in our m. but i'm determined to always reassure my h that i'm doing everything i can to regain his trust so that he doesn't have to be "afraid" of om.

i know how hard it's been for h to even start to be excited about this baby, and how important it is/will be for him to see himself as the father. we've talked about it a lot and he can't simply think of himself raising someone else's child - he has to be raising his child. he's not going to introduce him to people as "the child who's a result of an affair my wife had with another man" - it's going to be "this is my son!"

do i want to jeopardize that? h&ll no!

like i've said before, i see mo5's situation as being closest to mine in regards to om, and also closest to what i'd like to see happen in regards to contact. that being said, i didn't skip over the part where she said that she and her h didn't make that decision til about a year and a half after her daughter was born. so i'm not going to make the mistake of "putting the cart before the horse" so to speak. i don't want to rashly make a decision that going to affect me, my h, my m, and my child for the rest of our lives. that's why i had so many questions! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

thanks everyone for your responses. they've given me much to think about.

amy

Amy,

I know that the cost has gone up---when I was counseling with Steve, it was $60 a session. Having said that, the advice and help I got from him was priceless---certainly worth $200 a session (I hope he's not reading, I might get billed <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> ).

I would say that IF you like the MB principles, and IF your husband and you need some help with getting these applied, and IF you're both willing (a POJA thing), then four sessions, even at CDN$, would be a very good thing for you. Steve will help the two of you learn the basic skills and procedures to build your own plan for the future. He's one of the best counselors I've ever worked with (Jen is excellent too)---and although you may be able to find a good counselor through your local search, you will probably have to wade through a bunch of bad ones. Use some of the Harley's advice on "what to look for in a marriage counselor" to help you search.

Hi Amy,

not been on here much recently so I have only just found your thread.

First off my WW and I are in a similar situation to you so I hope our experience and decisions might help you reach your own. Much of what we have decided might seem at odds with the MB way but in my view the most important thing is this:

Each party has to want to do what they agree to do. If they end up accepting something as a compromise they will end up resenting it. I think this is what JL was expressing (sorry if I misunderstood JL).

So what of our situation? WW finished her A with OM in December. It was completely her choice. We were (still are) living apart but spending a lot of time together. I have never pushed her to finish the A, simply stated to her that we could never even try again until she did. When she finished it she told me that she needed to be with no one for a while to sort out her feelings.

She found out she was P (has to be by OM as we were having no SF) in Jan. I guessed before she even told me. We spent a lot of time talking about whether she wanted to tell OM, did she want me to be a father for child etc etc.

She has never wanted to hate OM and I have never wanted her to. They both made mistakes but they also meant something to each other. However hard this is for me to take, I only want my W back because she has chosen me back and chosen to work on our M. I don't want her to only want me as a second choice. She gave up OM because (in her words before knowing about P) "I realised he was not someone I wanted to spend the rest of my life with".

So where are we now? She does not want to tell OM because 1. she does not want him to be a father to OC. 2. She does not want to wreck his life (he is very young) 3. she does not want to be with him.

It is strange, because I had always told her she would not be able to commit to our M unless she had NC with OM. She had understood this but had not got to the stage of being ready to take this step. Until her preganancy. Now she knows she has to go NC because she does not want him to know. And whilst I am very happy about this, part of me (male pride bit I guess) wants him to have to take responsibility for his actions.

So we are now at the stage where we are going to raise the OC as ours. We are still working on our M and what we jointly want out of it. We are very aware of not merely being thrown back together because my W is P. And yet we know that deciding to bring a child into this world is precisely why we need to be making the biggest effort to save our M.

I have rambled on a lot about our situation and I apologise for thread-jacking. That wasn't my intention but I am not sure how to give advice except by illustrating that you don't have to take every decision in one go. I know that at first my WW was trying to decide whether or not to even keep OC. And every decision that you are trying to make we were thinking through as well and every choice was running through our heads and it became so difficult to even make the first decision. So I said "let's stop and take one decision at a time and then go on to the next when we have talked it through and come to a joint decision that we are both truly happy with". It's all you can do in my very humble opinion.

As to whether we will ever tell OM about OC or OC about OM we just don't know right now. It's going to take a lot more "time and patience" to quote a very sage and learned member of this board.

I hope I haven't bored you and apologies again for taking up so much space with my story.

You seem to be doing well - just give yourself some T&P <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

bowd

with all do respect to those who think compromising is a bad deal, I would like to explain something. First my husband and my self are two different people with different beliefs and feelings. We as a couple are not going to agree on every thing totally and completely it just isnt happening. Now if I were forced into nc or making a decision i didnt want, I can see problems and resentment down the road.
But my husband and my self have learned to give and take and work things out till we both agree,and are happy with what we agree on, it might be that one of us has to give or take, but we dont do any thing that neither one of us can live with.
That does not cause resentment. IT has made us better at marriage , at communicating.

How can you "hate the OM" when you have his child inside of you?

Welllll, for one thing, you can hate the fact that he could care less about protecting your marriage. I know that you had more to do with that than OM did, but you can twist it around a little for the benefit of your marriage...

And since xOM has such little regard for marriage, what values will he teach to your OC about marriage and vows and fidelity? People change, but what if xOM's values don't change? Do you want a door open for xOM's influence in your son's life without knowing for sure what's down the road?

You can hate the fact that he took advantage of your emotions. I don't know how your affair got started, but he probably listened to your complaints about things at home (I'm just guessing), but he did nothing to try to point you back to home. That was kind of a "snakey" thing to do, huh?

I could be wrong, but I'm just trying to "help" you here so work with me! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Let's see what else? Ummmm, you could hate the fact that xOM is willing to walk away from you without insisting on contact with his biological son. Does xOM know about OC? Sorry if I overlooked that...

Momof5,

I completely agree with you - and apologies if my post came out sounding like I was against compromise (it's late here in the UK so not being the clearest <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> )

You are absolutely right when you say that you and your H are different people with different views and that negotiating an outcome that you both are happy to live with is exactly what is needed. And that in doing so you will both be stronger.

I guess what I was cautioning against is the situation where an ultimatum is given. I understand exactly why people do this and of course a line has to be drawn - I just feel that one needs to be extemely sure before issuing that ultimatum.

I think I will finish with the quote (from someone on here) that I remind myself of every time I have a serious decision to make:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Do I want to be right (over this point) or do I want to be married? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">take care all
bowd