I would like to ask this question and get some feedback.
I am asking with all due respect, but because is it a tough question, I don't want it to be viewed as an attack. I am truly interested in your thoughts and would like some input.

I'm doing a research paper on the negative effects children without fathers experience from early development through adolescence.
For those of you with NC, have any of you looked into the long term possible negative effects your NC choice will have on your OC? There is a lot of info, and many statistics available on the net.
Seeing the extrememly negative outcomes of the fatherless child, what are your thoughts on having made that choice? How do you justify it? (again, not asking as an attack, but I am truly interested)
Thanks so much, and good luck to all of you.

You have to "justify it" or accept it is probably a better word, particularly in cases where there is no choice. We can't force someone to participate in a child's life if they don't want to be involved. How much damage does THAT do to a child--having people involved and interacting who resent the child's very existence??? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

My OC is 20 now. There was no contact with his bio father. He's working and paying his way through college. He's out on his own. He's a productive member of society.

We all have issues to work out in our lives, regardless. We can't protect our kids from life's negative circumstances. We are all bound to face troubles in our lives, whether it is the self-inflicted pain of our affairs or the pain caused by others' betrayal.

<small>[ April 10, 2003, 11:34 AM: Message edited by: BINthereDUNthat ]</small>

I have a friend who adopted a baby into her two-parent home when she was in her 20s. She ended up divorced and raised the child alone with no involvement of her ex...

Putting an OC up for adoption is not a guarantee that the family will remain intact.

Just in case anyone is thinking that I did have a choice to place my OC in a 2-parent home.

Let me ask you a question rc, based on your research of all the extremely negative long-term effects single parenthood has on children, what is the solution?

There is no way to prevent people from getting divorced, dying, leaving so what IS the solution? Abort the children to prevent them from facing life's pain?

I'm just saying that negativity is part of life, it's not what we go through, it's how we go through it. Our focus is the key. Do we focus on what we don't have or do we appreciate what we do have and make the best of it???

BINthere,

I very much appreciate your responses and input. You asked about solutions, and I must admit I have no good answer for you. I certainly don't think it is necessarily adoption. I'm very pleased to hear your son is doing so well, but sadly he may be in the minority. As you stated, you had no choice.

I'm glad to hear from you, but I'm really after responses from the people who DO have a choice. The fathers or wives who CHOOSE no contact.
Again, I am asking with respect, but it is a tough question. To state it simply would sound accusatory, which is not my intent. Stated simply, the question would be how can you choose to expose a child to those future social, behavioral and educational risks, and moreover, has anyone looked into those risks and weighed them in their choice?
Thanks again.

Just thought I'd list a few facts from varied sources in my research for those who want to know...

These statements are based on situations where the father is absentee, not dead or a part time parent, but has chosen for whatever reason not to have contact.

Children in these situations are (especially boys):
-five times more likely to live in poverty
-at much higher risk for school drop out, teen pregnancy, and teen smoking, alcohol, and drug abuse
-boys are twice as likely to be incarcerated at some point
-three times as likely NOT to attend college or any higher education
-five times more likely to suffer from serious self esteem issues
-males are twice as likely to become spousal abusers

Now, these are just basic facts from several sources, there is a lot more info available. I should also state that the figures are higher still for minority children than whites.

respectfullycurious,

***Stated simply, the question would be how can you choose to expose a child to those future social, behavioral and educational risks, and moreover, has anyone looked into those risks and weighed them in their choice?***

First of all I think you should be asking this question of the unmarried mothers that chose to bring a child into this situation. Remember, men have no choice in the decision to bring a child into the world regardless of the circumstances. Once he has provided the sperm his choices have ended.
We all have to make choices in our lives. They are rarely the perfect choice but they are the best we can do. Many of us choose to make our priority our marriage and [gasp] our children. My H and I weighed the pros and cons and decided that the havic ow was causing in our lives was entirely too detrimental to our children and our marriage.

To RC:
I think this question would be a good one to place on another board call facereality.com for
The Other Woman board. I feel that what happens to the other child is NONE of my concern. I am responsible for the health and happiness of MY child. I have divorce my husband for having an affair and the ONLY reason I talk to him or even THINK about a reconcillation is because it is in my son's best interest. He now does not have a full-time father in his life but I will try my best to provide an enviroment for him of love and security. I did NOT know about my H affair or I would NOT have gotten pregnant (even though I adore my son) had I known. It is WOMEN who need to be accountable and responsible for their reproductive systems. Since WE get the choice to have a child we SHOULD think about WHO we are having a child with. Having a baby by a man you KNOW is married is just plain STUPID on any WOMAN's part, getting pregnant by someone other than your Husband if it the woman having an affair is STUPID too. HELLO-we all know what makes a baby and it is up to the WOMEN to protect themselves and their babies. MEN COME AND GO BUT THE CHILDREN YOU GIVE BIRTH TO ARE A PART OF YOU FOREVER AND A BABY WILL NOT MAKE THEM STAY WITH YOU. I personally, if faced with an unwanted pregnancy would have an abortion, that is my opinion and my right to choose. Women are stupid to think that giving birth to child will make a man be a FATHER, it doesn't. Men need to grow up and women need to get smarter-both need to think before they leap into parenthood! Sorry this is so long now. In conclusion: SHE didn't think about the future for her unwanted child when she decided to get pregnant by a married man, why should I?

Thisisnotmylife,
"I feel that what happens to the other child is NONE of my concern. I am responsible for the health and happiness of MY child."

Thank you for the honest answer. That is what I'm looking for. I'm not here to judge your choices, simply to glean insight from them. I'm seeking only to gather info on the choices made and the feelings involved.

JTigger,
I am thinking about your post and the best way to respond, and I will shortly. To say one thing, you mentioned the unwed mothers. I am most certainly looking into their end as well, this is by no means one-sided.
Thanks

JTigger,

ok, here goes.
"Remember, men have no choice in the decision to bring a child into the world regardless of the circumstances. Once he has provided the sperm his choices have ended."
To be honest, my first reaction to that statement would be to say that at any time a man, married or not, has unprotected sex, he is taking on the responsibility for creating a life, and can't necessarily expect a woman not to have the child simply because he has decided he now doesn't want the child. HOWEVER that is a VERY general statement that in no way applies to all situations, so I can't fairly say my statement is true. I have learned of situations where women have essentially tricked men into pregnancy.

I got a sense of defensiveness from your reply, and offending you is not my intention. Maybe you simply can't answer my question, which is your option, of course. I am not asking about circumstances surrounding the birth of the child, or the role of the child's mother. I am simply asking about the child alone, now that it is here.
Now that there is a child, how did you come to a choice (removing the mother entirely) to have no contact with that child?
If your answer is simply that the child is not your to be concerned with, thats an honest answer. You don't have to be politically correct. Maybe some of you just don't give a darn about the child. That's all I'm asking.
Once again, I am not judging your answers as right or wrong in any way.

I'm sorry if my reply was a little rough but of course this is a touchy subject for me. I want to state that although I do believe that what happens to the OC in my case in none of my concern, I DO hope that her mother provides the best possible enviroment for her with out a father. I hope the OC will have a happy, healthy life too, just not with my husband or me. I DON'T hate or resent the child herself, just the situation. Her mother KNEW what she was doing and unfortunatly her daughter has a price to pay for her mistake, just like my son and I have a price to pay for my husband's mistake too. I hope you get more honest answers!

THISISNOTMYLIFE,
Do you mind one more question?
I'm curious about your feelings regarding the two children.
Would you want your son to know of the OC? Develop a relationship at some point?
Just curious, and thank you for your help.

respectfullycurious,
No, I'm not defensive. I made my peace with our decision years ago.

***removing the mother entirely***
There in lies the problem. You cannot remove the mother from the equation. So that question is moot.

***has unprotected sex, he is taking on the responsibility for creating a life, ***

That is the general response from alot of people. But suppose he wore a condom, and the condom broke. He, as a man, had used the only means of birth control available to him thus making it perfectly clear he wanted to prevent pregnancy. Is he still responsible for that child that he clearly did not want?
I'm not picking on you. This is one of my favorite debates.

<small>[ April 10, 2003, 01:41 PM: Message edited by: Jtigger ]</small>

JTigger,
I will have to disagree with you there. While you can't remove the Mother entirely, the courts can do a pretty good job of it as far as visitations and such go.
I know of some mothers who have be held in contempt or even lost custody for trying to prevent or causing problems with visitation.
I don't know your personal situation, so I can't make guesses about specifics in your home, but I do know that in most states, if a father wants a relationship with his child the courts will see that he gets one.
That said, I know that there are ways the mother could cause problems outside of visits.

This is a known biased population.

Although I'd love to hear what the absent fathers would have to say generally speaking.

CMiranda,
All sides of the equation are biased in their own way, but all the feelings are important because they all contribute to the situation.
I'm hoping to hear from a few of the fathers involved as well.
Even I have certain feeling on the subject, but I have to keep my own opinions out of it to properly learn from those I am asking for their opinions and information.

Using data from a site with an obviously known biased population doesn't exactly generate valid findings.

I've thoughtfully read this thread and can only offer my experience.

My girls are at a higher risk for teenage pregnancy and venereal diseases because for a time, their bio-dad was not a part of their lives for 8 years.

I'd like to think that Mr."T" being their Daddy for the past 6 years would counter-prevent that. As I'd like to think that OC and her Step-father has avoided that also.

I read the criteria you wrote with interest because it describes some studies that I read when I was concerned about my children when I was a welfare and divorced mother. I think that high risk category extends to not only no contact situations due to infidelity as well as divorce and unwed mothers. Some mothers choose to be single. It seems to me that Jodi Foster, an actress who fertilized herself with donated sperm, has a higher chance of raising successful kids because she has more money, than an unwed welfare mom.

I guess it's all subjective.

As for the choice of NC in our situation, that was my husband's. I cannot keep him from his child, even if I insisted on it. It was his choice before I even knew of her existence. He wanted to adopt her out, ex-ow didn't (and as a mother, I can understand that). We've not once said we weren't going to pay and filed the paternity suit first in court.

All I can do, is write in a journal and let that child know that she was thought of by me. I'm making a quilt for her, for one day she might grace my doorstep with her presence and want answers. Answers that her father and I will give her. The truth from our side of it. How that will end, no one will know.

My ex-husband hasn't been a part of my two girls' lives since they were 18 months and 3 months old. Now he is trying to start up contact and it's causing more problems with us emotionally then the girls (who knew only Mr."T" as Daddy) when he wasn't a part of their lives.

Were those emotions buried all those years? Or are they experiencing it now due to the fact that bio-dad wants to be a part now in their lives and they feel guilt towards their "Daddy T"? Who knows?

I wish there were answers. My parents divorced when I was 9 and my dad was barely in my life. I didn't experience high risk behaviors, but I do have to deal with rejection and abadonment issues that therapy and my faith in God helps me through it. If given my choice, I'd rather not know my dad then to experience his presence in my life and then be rejected and abandoned.

That's just my experience, respectfully submitted.
Interesting thread.

Twiisty

CMiranda,
Personal Interview, or in this case personal experiences of strangers is a valid form of research, but only one form which must be balanced with medical, behavioral and educational studies as well as statistics.

Twiisty,
Your post was excellent, and I really appreciate it. I wanted to make a couple of points though.

"I'd like to think that Mr."T" being their Daddy for the past 6 years would counter-prevent that. As I'd like to think that OC and her Step-father has avoided that also."
The presence of a male role model on a permanent basis changes everything. And the statistics I was referring to earlier apply only to one set of children, especially where self esteem is concerned. Children from divorced homes with a part time father experince far less problems, though we all know they do experience some.
Do you mind if I ask you what your H would think of his choice when faced with the grim stats I mentioned? Do you think any of those possibilites weighed into his choice for NC?
Thanks so much!

RC
I do not plan on my son knowing about his half-sister until he is much older and in the future when the wounds aren't so exposed who knows if I will be able to accept the OC in my life through my son but I will not accept her through my husband. like I said I divorced my husband and he has a choice to be in her life or not and he has always chosen NOT. even before I found out. He was told that she COULD NOT get pregnant, despite her already having another illegimate son who's father is not in his life either, HE was stupid enough to believe her. He begged her to have an abortion or give her up for adoption but for her religious reason she couldn't do that. Which makes me wonder how religious she could be to have 2 children out of wed lock and think its okay to screw a married man in the bathroom at work? Morals? I also had a personal relationship with this woman, she shared her pregnancy with me and I touched her stomach, congratulated her, bought her a shower gift, even though I wasn't invited, talked about breastfeeding our children, ALL the time not knowing her daughter was my husband's!! THAT is the action that makes me the most livid, she isn't the only one my husband slept with so its not about her being the one he screwed but it was HER (my husband didn't know) who SHARED her pregnancy with me and laughed behind my back. I don't think I would deny my son the right to know his half-sister in the future when its not in my hands to control but for now and for awhile he will NOT know about her and if my husband really wants to be apart of his daughter's life that is his decision, if he wants them to have a relationship it will be on HIS time with our son, not mine. I sound so harsh towards the OC and I REALLY don't mean to sound that way but I would be happy to spend the rest of my life never seeing her or the OW again. Just my 2 cents here. I think that EVERY MAN or WOMAN should be finacially responsible for the children they make weather they are in the child's life or not. My H pays child support and he should. Does it upset me that $300 a month could have gone to a house or college fund for my son, H$LL yes, but again that is the price we are paying for his mistake and that child deserves the finacially support even if she doesn't receive the emotional support from her bio-dad. My best wish is that the s1ut finds a man who is willing to accept two children that aren't his, from two different fathers, into his life and be the best role model for BOTH of her kids. PS she does not get child support for her other kid but has chosen to come after H with FULL force to get as much as she can. It is HER choice to NOT the the other dad involved with the child's life, she doesn't want child support from him b/c then he gets to see the kid. Of course if he REALLY wanted to see his kid NOTHING would stop him. But just a little not for you to know that it isn't always US keeping the fathers at bay from the OC but some mothers WILLING seek to keep the fathers out the children's lives too. Long again sorry!!!

thisisnotmylife,

Wow. Ugh.
Thanks for sharing with me, I appreciate it!