I figure that it is time for me to send out an update, or should I call it an introduction since I haven't posted in a long time...
I am now 2 3/4 years post d-day, and sadly reporting that things are not moving very far. Yet, gladly report that they are not crashing down around me either.
So suffice it to say we are stuck...(or is it just me???)
In the past year I have been focusing in on the wrong things, or maybe realizing that I have been. I don't know. After the affair life goes on I suppose, the kids need to go to school, trips are taken, time is spent with friends and family, holidays come and go, and love is made...
I have been wanting to post for months now, but haven't b/c of the fact that I was afraid I would be seen a whiner, hopeless case, or unable to follow thru with advice, much as how I feel my H sees me lately.
But this weekend I realized I need to vent all this out. I think that my last post said much of the same I am typing tonight.
~~The OW is on my mind much more than she should be.
~~I still cry after making love.
~~I still question my H, more in my mind than to his face)
~~Alot of the anger/resentment/hurt is still so raw.
This past Mon we had a therapy appointment which didn't go well. We got back on the "baby issue" thing again. I have been told it will not be happening, and unfortunately I ruined that for myself. I focused in on that way too early in recovery, instead of dealing with the issues. So I am angry at him for making that final decision, and angry at myself for not handling it better.
Anyway after therapy, in which alot of things came out for both of us, this is where I see us. We had a few incidents throughout the day in which we argued and pointed fingers, and what it did was bring me to this realization...but please realize these are MY interpretations...

He is feeling much like he did just before the affair, just before he made that fatal decision to take a few conversations with an empathetic co-worker too far. We have been arguing about stupid things, reacting all too wrong. I react out of anger and he reacts out of protecting himself. He has said that he is frustrated with me, that he can't see us moving past this, that the affair will always be a live issue between us, that I will never be able to forgive him. He feels that our relationship can go one of three ways...we love and move forward enjoying the family and life we have now, and thrive in it. OR we live a life for as long as we can distant but together. We will care for each other but will simply exist in the relationship, love each other, but not completly. And if we feel that when the kids are older we need to separate then we will have done right by them.OR we divorce now.
I asked him...so what you are saying is that you are giving up on restoring our marraige? and he said no, that there is still hope, but with me being depressed all the time and focused in on not having another baby and on the affair and the hurt, how can it move on?
I accept that responsibility...
But when I want to talk I know that it will either be met with a roll of the eyes, or a phrase of the week that he has thought up to stop me dead in my tracks...so I don't speak up. When I cry b/c of my frustration of not being able to talk or cry b/c we are arguing just like I knew we would (which is why I don't speak up also) he rolls over to go to sleep, or watches the t.v., or says the phrase of the week...I just want to be held.

I am not trying to bash him here. He has been truely remorseful, much the type of WS that many of you would love to have. He tries to talk to me, but then we go right back to the way we communicated before the affair.I have shut down and in turn he has too.
I love him. It is just that I have hurt for so long, and I am emotionally exhausted.

So my game plan...I guess I do have one...
I plan to ask for antidepressants during my physical on Friday. I have been on them before, during my eating disorder. I know the benefits, but worked so hard to get off them. It is kind of disheartening to me that I will need them again. But maybe I truely did need them, maybe the chemical imbalance never went away.
I am going to try to not argue with him, but at the same time have to be careful that I do not feel that I am compromising myself...does that make sense?
I am going to read the LIBRARY of books I have stacked in my nightable. Do the workbooks that go along with it.
I would like to go to Retrouvaille again.

So there is my update...Sorry it could not be better, but glad it is what it is, and not over.

Thanks to all that have helped me in the past, you all know who you are, and hello to all that I have just introduced myself to. (Although to be honest with you, I read here everyday) so I know alot of your situations, and my heart goes out to you that you are in the ride also.
God Bless

NGU

Hey NGU,
No introduction is necessary! You are not whining. Your feelings do count. I'm sorry your H is acting like a jerk when he can't deal with your feelings. That's not your fault. He has not figured out how to take care of you so it sounds like he just gives up. I don't know how to deal with a man behaving that way other than prayer. Only God can soften a hardened heart.

I think your PLANS sound excellent. Hang in there! You are loved and cared for here! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> (((HUGS)))

NGU:

It sounds like antidepressants would be a good thing for you right now. I realize that you've tried to wean yourself off since the last bout, but you may actually need them. It's not a weakness, it's a condition---an illness, with a real biochemical basis. I've got a bad back that I had surgery on last year---and this year I fell off a horse and cracked three vertebrae (transverse processes, so not so serious). As much as I would like to be "normal", I realize that I have to be careful with lifting, and not go out and do stupid things. This really isn't much different.

It's been a while since we've talked, but you did counsel with the Harley's for a while, didn't you??? Would you consider going back (or starting, if you haven't)? The reason I ask is that you both apparently want to move on, and get to the first scenario, where:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">we love and move forward enjoying the family and life we have now, and thrive in it</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That's a terrific goal, and you both have it. My guess is that the Harley's plan-based coaching methods could be extremely effective for you both. And I don't think you want to spend too much time rehashing the past---it's moving forward in a positive direction that you need now.

And to counter BTDT's comment (and protect male-dom), I don't see where your husband is acting like "a jerk". He is sharing feelings, and he is truly frustrated. He also needs "help" (coaching) on how to validate your feelings and work towards this idea of a romantic love. Again, this is where some good coaching would probably be a perfect thing to get you two over the hump.

Sorry I can't remember everything you posted, but it sounds like you have been wrestling with this for a very long time. It also sounds as if there was a baby born of your H affair.

I am in a similar situation. My H of 13 yrs. had A last year, D-day May 3, 2002. I am currently having a horrible time with things as I keep remembering all the time he must have spent with her last year this time. Also, OW had baby in Dec. 03 - says it's his, but won't agree to DNA test, so we are taking her to court for it on May 19th. I am so apprehensive about the whole thing, because at the very least we will have to pay child support to a child that never should've been. We have 3 kids of our own, one of which will only be 2 in June. He was still a baby when A happened.

He says he wants to go for full custody if it is his as she has been proven an unfit mother for her other 3 children. In my heart, I know this is the right thing to do for the child as I know we can provide a much stabler family life for this little girl, but Also - I know it will hurt me every time I look at her. To realize that she should've been my little girl. H says he would like to try for baby #4 with me, but I feel this would be a huge mistake.

Any advice out there? I am in such agony.

You may e-mail me at nicwatts@hrtc.net or post here.

Thank you for any help you can give.

I am so tired tonite...I got 2 hours of sleep last night and did so much today...tried to get some of the things that my H wanted me to do that we argued about over the weekend...I am trying...
I want to respond though...

BTDT:I think my H is just plain ole frustrated! See, if only I WOULD open up to him, THEN he would be able to help me...but I also must agree with you that he has yet to figure out how to help me yet.
You know it is so strange it is like it is a waiting game with us...I mean who will talk first, but he says that I am the one with the issues...is he telling me that he has none, no thoughts except for the fact that our relationship has hit a standstill? GRRRRR!

K:I think the antidepressants are a must right now. I know it is a medical problem, I mean in my case, I was diagnosed with Bipolar in college when I suffered from anorexia. But I was not Bipolar in the true sense, I was either severly depressed or "normal", but never manic. I guess what I am realizing is that once I came off the meds 8 years ago things began to go downhill...so maybe I needed them all along. I had a surgery done about 5 weeks ago, and the nurse there said I should get my thyroid rechecked (I was also diagnosed with hypothyriodism after my first pregnancy, but after having my third child I was spiteful and stoppped all meds). Luckily my thyriod had corrected itself, but I am now told it can come back. So I will go and get it checked...and ask for the meds. I guess I resent that I need them after finding out about the affair, yet maybe I always did need them, and just want to throw more blame on my H's choices.
As for the couselong with Harleys...I never did do it. I do not see how alot of the priciples fit for me. POJA is impossible when there just is no compromise to be made and one loses out, and the LD/LB concept is hard to implement when the feelings are all so raw. I know you are a firm advocate in the MB principles, and I use them when they apply, but sometimes the shoes don't fit here in our situation, be it the stubborn people we are ...I don't know... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />
And the romantic love thing...God I could go on about that one, but I would be up till 3am again!

Nic: I am sorry you have experienced this, and yes it has been long, I will have know 3 years in July 03.I don't have much advice for you as we have no contact, pay child support, and HE has decided that we will not be having a 4th child. I think it is a must that you get the DNA done, I told my H we will not pay a dime until he has proof. Not that he hadn't already given her a few payments, but I had to have the proof. He was sure it was his. There are a few on the board that have taken the OC under thier wing (K?) and loved the OC as thier own. You may want to post a separate post, primarily b/c you may get more replies that way...Good luck and keep posting, these are a wonderful group of people here.

Thanks for your help all, signing off for the night!
NGU

NGU:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">As for the couselong with Harleys...I never did do it. I do not see how alot of the priciples fit for me. POJA is impossible when there just is no compromise to be made and one loses out, and the LD/LB concept is hard to implement when the feelings are all so raw. I know you are a firm advocate in the MB principles, and I use them when they apply, but sometimes the shoes don't fit here in our situation, be it the stubborn people we are ...I don't know... </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Then truly, you are a prime candidate for this (but you'll spend more time coming up to speed). The people who say "I don't see how the principles fit me..." and don't use them---99% of the time they are mired in marital ruts that they would be able to get out of, if they learned the principles and how to apply them. Those people who say "I don't use the principles, but I have a terrific marriage..." are using all the major principles, but either calling them something different or not 'acknowledging' them.

POJA is not about compromise/sacrifice. It's about learning to come to solutions that you both love, through good negotiation and brainstorming techniques. The LD/LB concept is hard when there are bad/raw feelings present---but THAT'S WHEN IT'S THE MOST IMPORTANT TO IMPLEMENT. Who the hell needs it when you're both madly in love??? It's when you're out of love but want to rebuild it that you need to learn how to employ the rules of Protection and Care, through use of honesty and the POJA , to get your marriage back on track.

As far as you and your husband's stubbornness quotient, I'll inform you that I'm thoroughly one of the most stubborn people I know. That, and the fact that I'm brilliant and right 99.999995% of the time makes me the candidate for the "Perfect Spouse" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> Being an Ivy-League Ph.D.---I was sure that it would be impossible for me to change such fundemental behavioral traits that led to my disrespectful judgements and other lovebusters. Steve Harley earned every accolade that I've heaped on him over the last five years, because he QUICKLY AND EFFICIENTLY had me on the MB plan, understanding my role in our marriage troubles, and effectively fixing my behaviors in a month or two. Under less than ideal circumstances.

I really think that you'd benefit from trying the MB coaching out. It doesn't appear that you're making a whole lot of headway with your current therapist. You've identified the problems, but I don't see the real plan in place to effectively deal with them. Steve (or Jenn) will help the two of you craft a plan that will work.

That's the best advice I can give you.