I was going to respond to the other thread but decided to start anew...Well, if you look back at my last two threads, you know up till now what has happened.
The thing that I have come to realize now is this, and I know this is "love-busting" but I just am having a really hard time with this part...
You all read his reaction to the sex issue. At first it was..."Go take a shower, we will be late." Only after I asked him why he shot me down like that, did we get anywhere...and it seemed okay. We talked about what bothered each of us, but AFTER the nasy remarks were made.
Now here is a upodate on the thread entitled "Okay here is another one"...we don't talk till the next day and I get to the airport. He had planned his flight so that he and his family all got in at the same time. So I find him first and we are looking for his family whose plane landed a few minutes before him so they should be there (the airport baggage area is only one floor) They apparently went to get Starbucks. So he asks me what was wrong last night. I said it was a bad trigger day, alot to talk about and we could talk later. He asked if I could give him an idea and I began with the first trigger (Victorias Secret) and he lets out a sigh, looks to the ceiling and I just stop talking.I said what was that for...his reply was "Don't you think you are getting extreme with this now?" I said "See I knew it was a bad time, and what you just did is exactly why I find it hard to tell you things. If that is how you are going to react..." and then I sat there waiting for his family feeling like crap. I did get moody towards him but knew he would comment on that so stuffed the feelings again and went home talking to his sister in the back seat of the van. We get home and I follow him upstairs, and I simply stated..."I am just going to say one thing here. You wonder why I don't bring this stuff up and it is b/c of the reactions I get when I do. You ask for my feelings and I tell you and they are discounted." he said "Well I could tell you were in a bad mood." I explained that the mood began when I got shot down...again.
We agreed to talk later, but never did. I knew we wouldn't as it was to be a very busy weekend with the communion, and now it seems like it is too old of business to talk about now.

So since then I have been questioning everything, any time I can't find him I panic. I know he isn't having an affair, and I hate how this all is making me.

So I go into therapy, it was my week to go alone, and I tell all. She says she understood how I felt and had me think of ways that I would rather him handle it(the Vicky thing in particular but all the other stuff too.) She wrote alot more down than usual. The one thing she said was that she didn't understand what type of relationship he supposedly has with this woman. I explained that his job entails visiting stores with managers and such, which happen to be women. I get that part, but the rest (my uneasiness)unnerves me. I guess in short, now that he has given me a reason to wonder, I heed those warnings more now, when pre-affair I could talk myself out of them.
I guess I am just realizing at this moment (and this is purely mindreading on my part, as my therapist calls it) maybe he feels since the affair has been brought out, and he swears he will never do it again, does he think that the trust deep down in my heart that used to talk me out of all my supposedly unfounded fears is there again?, (and to be honest I had no reason to suspect anything for the affair. I knew we had problems but they were for us to work out not run away from) And it is not that I think he will do it again, in reality I know he won't, but it is the unknown that kills me. And now I question all the time, where were you, who did you have dinner with, where did you go, I'll call both phones if I can't get a hold of him. I must be driving him nuts, or just plain old frustrating him. All his answers make sense and all, but they did before, and the fact that he had somtimes lied to hide it, makes me not want to be made a fool of again...it isn't fair for either of us to live like this. I think the best way for me is to be able to express my fears, but I feel 2 inches tall after I do.

But I know that if I were the one that had an affair I would expect to account for all that.

He does tell me what he can, but here is an example. Last Sun. I explained that I was going to dinner with a friend, and I had mentioned it briefly b/c I hadn't had complete confirmation on time and a baby sitter till Sat/Sun. So Sun nite I tell him, and he says "and how long have you known you were going out?" I said we had been trying to set it up for about a week, but not confirmed. "and you are only telling me now?" Mind you we were cut off three times due to bad cell signal so I had to keep explaining it. I said yes, and proceeded to explain about the time and sitter...he wasn't mad, but you could tell he wasn't exactly happy. Tonight I try to call him at 9 (mind you we are an hour ahead of him)on both cells, no answers I try again at 9:50 as I plan to call my sister for family issues (like I need more) and there was no answer, he calls back about 20 min later..."whats wrong?" I told him I couldn't find him and was worried...he said "Is that all? You called twice on each phone?" So then he says he is getting dinner and then going back to the hotel...I call again at 11:00 as I thought I was supposed to call him, no answer again. He calls back at 11:30, "you called again?" Yes, I was calling you back, where were you? "Well I had gone to a buffalo wing place and saw two guys there form work and ate and am now on my way to the hotel." He sounded aggravated. I am afraid I am smothering him.
Now correct me if I am wrong but, I told him where I was on Mon, I always make sure he can reach me, and he knows where I am if I am going out. I rarely do so I know that if he called and I hadn't told him , well I see that as unfair to him, why have him worry? BUT, it seems to bother him that I want the same from him. I told him a day before, he tells me aafter dinner. I mean did he have his phone, did he know I called during dinner? We will never know b/c tis will never be addressed.

So how do I tell him my thoughts (where they go sometimes), about the triggers, if these are the reactions I get?

You know what? He treats me like gold, never questions how I spend money, what I do with the kids whilke he is away, lets me do my own thing...

This is truely a point of contention and in my opinion a HUGE one as it really hinders our ability to communicate.

Any responses to any issues I wrote about would be GREATLY appreciated!

NGU

and in his defense, an example of doing the right thing....today is my birthday, and he sends me flowers. When I called to thank him and let him know I got them, he asked if they had put the Star-Gazer Lilys in it...my favorite flower. They had..HUGE ones for that matter.
They were beautiful, and it was awesome to get as he is again away...(the card was a little..."general", but they could have written it for him.)
Anyway, I just got up from the computer and saw them and thought they would show where his heart was today!
NGU

Dear NGU,

I read your previous post last week, and wanted so badly to reply, but I am a WS, and what I wanted to say to you wasn't very encouraging, so I didn't reply. I woke up at 4:30 am. last Sat. morning, and your post came to mind again, and I told myself I would reply to you, but again I didn't for the same reasons. When I found this latest post this morning, your words began to nag at me, and I felt a pit in my stomach, so now I am writing. I also need to tell you that ever since my affair, I have looked at things way differently. I tend to be more suspicious of people and their actions, especially when they resemble mine. For example, I think one of my good friends is cheating on her husband, simply because she is exhibiting much of the behavior I did during mine. I tell you this, because you may just want to take what I say with a grain of salt, or just dismiss it altogether. Still I felt I should write to you.

First of all, I want you to know my heart goes out to you, and that is why I'm feeling this pit in my stomach. You are another reminder of how much I am going to hurt my husband.

This is probably really simplistic, and has a big "duh" factor, but, my concerns have to do with the cell phone way of contacting your husband. Having been a ws, I urge you to try and contact your husband, and have him contact you by land line phones whenever possible. I know this isn't always possible, nor 100% fool proof, but it would provide for more honesty and accountability. I'm sure this is common sense, but sometimes I think people don't really think about it. The use of cell phones only made my affair easier. I kept in contact with my family from all sorts of unimaginable places while with om, while they thought I was calling from where I said I would be. Never once did they question my whereabouts, simply because they were able to contact me. I could have been in a different state for crying out loud! My mother in law even called me one time to ask what I wanted for Christmas when she thought I was out Christmas shopping at a local mall, but I was really in a mall 70 miles away, shopping with om...what a low life I felt like at the time, and worse now! Needless to say, it was my way of contact with om also. I never once called him from, nor allowed him to call me on home phone, (don't think I even ever told him the #). I arranged it with my cell phone co. so that they would not itemize my calls, incoming as well as outgoing, so in case my husband ever saw the bill, he wouldn't see the om #. I still feared that he could call the cell co. at anytime and get the listings though.

Please don't think I am trying to rain on the recovery of your marriage, because that is not my intent. You seem so sweet, and I can only hope that my H, (whom doesn't know of my a/oc yet) will be as generous and kind as you are to your husband. I doubt he will be as trusting though, and he will probably hold me more accountable, if he even stays with me at all.

One more thing that "ate" at me about your post was:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You know what? He treats me like gold, never questions how I spend money, what I do with the kids whilke he is away, lets me do my own thing...

This struck me like a bolt of lightning, because this is exactly how I treated my husband pre-a, and during a. I went from always complaining about his every move, to actually encouraging him to go fishing and hunting more often. I didn't whine about financial decisions. Didn't disagree on decisions he made regarding the children, etc... I was as agreeable as I could be, just to make things easier for me. I know...scum!!

Again, I am not saying these things to hurt you. I just want you to be careful, and I want you to not feel guilty about trying to call him a lot, and then asking where he was when he didn't answer the phone, you have every right to!! You are not being unreasonable!! You are looking out for yourself, and your marriage, and that is all good!! He shouldn't be blowing off your concerns, as if they are silly, or a result of "moodiness" especially when he is the one that asks you what is on your mind!

This is the hardest post I've written since I've been on here, more difficult then my first one, when I told my story. I feel awkward, like it is improper that I write these things to you, and please forgive me (and feel free to tell me so) if I was out of line. I just felt drawn to reply. If the veterans on here feel they need to set me straight, I understand.

Hope things are going well for you,
~aut

ps. You have great taste in flowers, Star-Gazers are also one of my favorites. Happy Birthday! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Ok, this is how new I am at this, I messed up the quote thingie. I will have to learn how to do that. Also, NGU, I was hoping someone more encouraging with better advice would reply to you before I did. I'm sure they will soon though! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

NGU, I think a big part of the problem is your H's job.
If he must visit stores w/ a female co worker then he should do just that. He should not have included her in buying something for you at ANY store.

Also the way he gets defensive about your fears may be an inappropriate response because you two haven't learned how to communicate honestly and without anger.

Perhaps your therapist can address some of those issues.

If not, I highly recommend Steve Harley.

You can call 1-888-639-1639 to set up an appointment.

H and I did this past late winter. He can help you both by explaining to your H what he must do to help you overcome your fears.

We are at about the same time frame, NGU, and our (H and mine) recovery has been astounding.

We have discussed *successfully* things I was afraid of bringing up in the past. With each calm, honest discussion, H and I move that much further ahead. A sort of re-bonding, if you will.

As my fears are alleviated, I become trusting again. When I become trusting again, we live like we did pre A. Comfortable. Closer.

I wish you better days, NGU.

love
Debi

Hi NGU,
(((HUGS))) Insecurity attacks suck, don't they? I don't know of any wife out there who doesn't panic on some level when they can't reach their husband during a personal crisis.

I disagree with one thing you said tho and that was regarding smothering your husband. To me, there is no such thing as smothering each other in marriage. I don't believe that. If you need reassurance, then you are entitled to it, especially being a BS and I do believe MB concepts support you wholeheartedly in this area. (Surviving An Affair)

I don't know how your H could refuse if you ask him for more reassurance, not like you are checking up on him, just trying to stay connected as much as you can with his travel/work schedule? I don't see anything wrong with that?

I think you can start out by telling him all the good things he is doing and how much you appreciate everything he is doing to make you feel secured in his love.

And there is this one area about the telephone and being unable to talk at crucial moments when you particularly need his reassurance. Heck, that's why we have cell phones--so we can be available 24 hours, 7 days a week! Right? Right!

Hi all. Well I need to start posting on Mondays as I always wind up having to stay off the computer(my chioce) during the weekend as I like to try to spend time with my H.

Autumn Day: Thank you so much for the post. You should post more often b/c your words make alot of sense and can help others understand where a WS is coming from.It helped me! He needs to use the cell phone, as most of his time is in the car when he travels or in the stores in which he is unable to use the phones. As much as I hate it, I can't change it.
It is strange b/c I have been dealing with this for 2 3/4 years and all of the sudden the phone thing is an issue. In the past I have not been able to reach him...why is it triggering so badly for me now?
He has always TRUED to treat me like gold, but communication has always been a problem for us.Even in dating. I think Gem hit it on the head, we don't know how to communicate w/o anger. We had a tiff this afternoon and it al,l could have been avoided if we had kept snide comments, which he apoligized for, and had not jumped to conclusions.
Please don't ever say you are scum. I don't think so...I want to tell you about my d-day...sorry guys this will make this post long too <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> ANYWAY I found out thru the mail, she had filed for child support and paternity. I got the mail and thought is was regarding an accident. I was FLOORED, had NO CLUE, but everything began to make sense, his distance...I was also 5 months pg with our third. I sat on it for about 3 hours. He came home and I was on the computer. I had composed myself but he could read the mood I was in. I asked for help on the computer as i was having problems with it and I showed him what was wrong. He asked what was wrong with me and I said nothing. The kids were home and I was going to approach him while they were at bible school. He made a comment "well if this is the mood you are going to be in , I should have stayed in -----" (wherever he was coming home from) I took him upstairs and threw the papers on the bed. His response..."I did something stupid" I yelled "How could you!" and cried and about 5 minutes later he asked me when I wanted him to leave. Much to my surprise I told him I needed him to stay, not to go. I shocked myself, b/c I always said that if he cheated I would leave. I had been cheated on before, I remembered the hurt. But we had a family and I was pg. I surprised him too. And to behonest here sometimes I wish I had thrown him out and sometimes I do feel like I am compromising my morals and breaking promises I made to myself, but more often I am glad I didn't as I know we are still here b/c he stayed. I tell you this b/c I hope that your H will surprise you too. It wasn't easy, he slept on the couch for days, but we were forced to confront the issue. I pray that he gives you both that chance too. I remember the first hug he gave me, or that I let him give me three days later. I realized that although we had hugged in the past he hadn't held me and put his arms TOTALLY around me in years, and it brought me to tears.
If you ever need to talk let me know...(BTW I didn't notice the quote till I went back to the post. You are braver than me...I won't even attempt it!)

Gem: So glad to see you posting again. Like I said to Autumn you definately hit it. We are in counselling...abnd I have heard such awesome things about the Harleys...but I think that he would just roll his eyes and say, another thing to try....Our current therapist is great and we are starting to hit on the issues. She definately wants to address this. I'll let you know how it goes.

BTDT: I told him today about how I am smothering him. He said I wans't but that I had to understand that sometimes he can't answer the phone. He may be in court, a meeting, or out of range. (he works 9 hours away) I am not making excuses, but I guess he has reasons. He gets frustrated that I seem to be impatient, and he does call when he can. He said that he doesn't mind that I call but that I neednt call each phone, and call in hour intervals. We had a tiff tonight, and he had to stop abruptly and said "I will call you back in a few"...but then he didn't call back for about 20 min. I sat on it wondering if it was going to be later tonight that we finally finished the discussion. And Gem this is where what you said comes in...like I explained to Autumn, we calmly talked about it and it was resolved in two minutes, but only after the hurt.

Thanks for your imput guys...It really helps to talk...
NGU

<small>[ May 09, 2003, 12:04 AM: Message edited by: Not Giving Up ]</small>

NGU Your H shouldn't roll his eyes at seeking EXPERT counseling.

Maybe if you tell him you need it for YOU to become less worried each time he is away. They will let him know what you need from him in order for that to happen.

Honestly they helped us this past year.

K kept saying it, a few others from here tried them, I thought it would put a few tiny fears of mine to rest for good and it did.

It taught us great communication skills, and allowed us both to quit being so afraid of hurting each others feelings.

Sort of like the frosting on our recovery cake. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

NGU, maybe you can try them in addition to your regular counselor.

Prayers to you on a better recovery.
love
Debi

Hey i only have a minute
Gem if you don't mind me asking how many sessions does it take to get over something like we are facing right now? In you opinion...
And how much is it, if you can post it...
K has often suggested I try it, it has not fallen on deaf ears just that I can pretty much hear the response!
NGU

Not giving up,

I am in mental health field myself. I have been seeing Steve Harley with and without my H. Now I guess without him, since we are now separated-my H just walked out the door to his new place.

Anyway, I think Steve is amazingly good, from a personal and professional point of view, and does well engaging the WS.

That said, his suggestions aren't always easy, but can be effective. My H just didnt' want to listen.

He costs 160 per hour,currently. Expensive, but I do believe worth it.

NGU, We had two sessions. Each one was 185.00 and worth every penny!

The phone number is 1-888-639-1639 to make an appointment.

Good luck!
love
Debi

Sorry guys. As amazing as he sounds...and believe me, I have been on this board almost 3 years and seen many posts on how the Harleys help,I don't see how my H would agree to that. We have been thru 4 counselors.
First one I knew wouldn't help but gave her a chance b/c of one question she asked at the end of outr first session that made me think she did get it.
The second I liked but we moved...I think she could have helped.
Third one I got into a situation where I felt that she she wasn't following thru on what she said to me personally and then when we she saw my H and I together. She was good, but I just began to not trust. We talked it out after I stopped seeing her and left on good terms. She sensed something was wrong.
The one I am seeing now is good. I think she will be able to help.
I think he would just see it as another one...but that is my opinion.
My problem is that I am still...stuck!
Talk to you guys later!
NGU