well the same night as my last post fh was served with court papers. om is trying 1 - to reduce his cs payments by claiming he can't afford it because his car payments are to high ($960 per month). 2 - get joint physical and legal custody ( this from a guy who wanted nothing to do with grace until cs became an issue) 3 - change grace's last name to his (where was he at her birth if it was so important to him?), 4 - he wants fh to go back to work with his employer so she will make more money and balance out the support amount <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> , 5 - have grace spend weekends and one overnight mid week ( again from a guy who won't even buy a car seat so she is safe while driving)

anyhow fh goes to mediation on wednesday.the only point iwe are having a hard time with is the name. i am of the belief that in ca. the mother has the right to name her child anything she chooses regardless. i also believe that grace should carry the same last name of the parent she will be spending most of her time with. this is so as she grows up it will help to avoid the social stigmas of constantly explaining why her name is not the same as her mothers and her siblings. if pressed fh will use her trump card and hyphenate the last name. but we are not sure which name in that instance is the official last name. the one before or after the hyphen. if any one can help us with this and also more reasons why grace should not even bare his name we would appreciate it.

even wording on any of the other issuesi mentioned above couldn't hurt. we want her to go into the mediation with as much ammo as possible.

if it presses past mediation to a court hearing then we have some other surprises for om. i hope it doesn't go there. we are willing to allow him visitation and expect him to pay his cs.

can you believe that he expects fh to call him and let him know when he can see grace. he also expects her to bring grace to him and hang out so she can bring her home. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Hi Pops,
I only have a second because I am in the middle of law school finals and have all but dropped off the face of the earth, but...
1. In most states, the father CANNOT force a mother to give the child his last name. It is the mother's choice, period. I have heard of instances where fathers have petitioned the court for the name change, but he would have to show extreme circumstances why this would be important. And considering the circumstances, I doubt any judge would buy it. I would suggest that FH stick to the name grace currently uses.

2. He can't force her to go back to work at all, but the court could "impute" her former income for purposes of child support. Thismeans that basically, they would calculate support as if she was earning what she used to. Depending on the state, this could work out several ways. There is even the possiblity that it would INCREASE what he has to pay. Either way, FH does NOT have to go back to work, and nobody, including the court, can make her do so.

3. keep in mind that at mediation Fh does NOT have to agree to anything she is not comfortable with. Mediators have no power to iimpose anything on a parent. It is by agreement only. Tell her not to be intimidated into agreeing to any demand she finds unreasonable - including overnights. At grace's age, I doubt many courts would consider sending her overnight, so FH has nothing to lose by letting this proceed to court. If om has gotten any competant legal advise, I am sure he knows this as well. Make sure FH does not get "bluffed" into anything that she does not want to do.

4. Good luck to him in trying to decrease child support based on a high car payment. The court will not care whatsoever what his car payment is. It has absolutely NO bearing on what his support obligation is.

anything else, let me know. Ihave been pretty much worthless to my MB friends lately, but I do try to peek in now and then.
-cdcollins

Pops,

Don't panic. Calm down, get yourself a good attorney and talk with him. I suspect this is just a power play by OM. It may lead to several consequences he hasn't anticipated. One is having his CS increased. Two, having no visitation ( the no car seat issue is big), and him having big troubles at home. If I were a lawyer, I believe I would have the OM's W testify as to the number of affairs he has had. How well he supports his children, and how good a father he really is. He cannot be doing many things very well.

I think he is just trying for control of the situation. You guys just might be able to pin him and get him out of your lives for quite awhile.

Be calm, get help (attorney)), and keep your eyes open.

God Bless,

JL

Pops,
I can't see a judge giving xOM joint physical custody at this point.
xOM has not been involved with Grace's care early on.. and he hadn't shown any interest in her until cs was mentioned.

cdcollins has definitely given you good advice... as has JL...

Grace is a little younger than Lil Bit. We became involved with Lil Bit immediately following the DNA results... we began getting her at 5 wks old.
We did have her for overnights right from the start.
And within a month, we had become her daycare provider.
Thus the reason for the Referee granting Joint Physical custody (51%) for H.

Also, the largest difference between your case and ours, xOW is not married and doesn't have custody of her other children.
You and fh have other children. You have a stable home.
I really cannot see any judge changing anything in the way of xOM's visitation with her. He has to establish a relationship with Grace.. and he has not had time to do that, what's it been now? a month or two since he was ordered to pay cs? Not enough time at all...

My thoughts are with you and fh.

cd,,,,,,,, i do believe that fh has nothing to worry about but should be concerned as om is grasping at straws to lower his cs payments.

i didn't think om had any legal grounds to change grace's name but we were not sure how fh should debate the point other then where was he when she was born if her name was so important and that since she will be spending the majority of time in our house it only makes sense she carries the same name as our kids to avoid any social stigmas of being the different one. but i like your idea of haveing fh make him show the importance of a name change. especially since he hasn't cared to be involved until cs was ordered.

om is not trying to force fh back to work but rather have her change places of employement so her wages will go up and offset their incomes to balance the cs payment. he did also mention the term "impute her hourly wage". again trying to cut cs. as a school bus driver she works a split shift mornings and afternoons with fill-in driving for school field trips in the middle of the day. field trips are not quaranteed so sometimes she has off thru lunchtime.

i also didn't believe that the courts would consider his car payments as a necessary cost of life to lower his cs.

fh is not real good at debating like this so i hope to arm her with as much material as possible before she goes in. i am even going to obtain the transcripts from her d.a. hearing so she can show what that judge said to him on all these issues.

tahnks for your help, pops

jl,,,, i am really pretty calm. i just want fh to have as much ammo and be as prepared as possible when she goes in for the mediation. we have an appointment this afternoon with an attorney that was highly recommended to me by a client. apparently he has an attorney that will argue pointless isues until he is blue in the face. when i told the lawyer we are seeing who om is using he chuckled and said the cost just went up. i don't know if it is possible but i am going to have fh press for om to pay her attorneys fees. they were just at the d.a.'s hearing 3/25 and that judge laid it out pretty clear to him on all issues he is addressing now. and you are right tis may cost him more then he thinks. as i still have some cards up my sleeve he isn't aware of.

you are right he is just trying to control things and he is grasping at straws to lower his cs.

did you know he expects fh to call him and see if he wants to see grace, bring her to him and hang around until it's time to bring her home. i feel he thinks fh should be there for him like his other family whenever he feels the need. several hispanic men that work for me live the same way. they have 2 or more women in different cities with children and they just bounce around where they feel the need. i just think it's the culture in the fact that women are supposed to serve men in their world. NOTE-- i mean nothing dirogatory (sp?) about that statement.

stacia,,,, you are right om hasn't had enough time to form any relationship with grace. since the end of march he has seen her for less then 5 hours. i believe mostly (and this will sound wierd) because his w is pushing him to see her since they have to pay cs. get something for the money.

thanks to all for your help and will look for any other responses this afternoon when i get home.

pops

Hello pops,

Question: Why is this OM even being included in your lives? Just because he donated a sperm?

If you dropped the CS demand in exchange for his relinquishing all rights to the child, would he "go away?" There HAS to be some way to get him out of your lives. The CS is not in my opinion enough reason to allow him to have contact with the baby.

The whole issue of the baby's name is irrelevant here. I bet it would disappear if you dropped CS demands.

You are good to be willing to raise the OM's child as your own, with the other children. It's unfortunate she resulted from your wife's affair, but I believe the best way to restore and recover your marriage and keep your family safe is to jettison the OM, in every way possible.

Repeat: Don't go for the child support. Find another way. Please.

Hmmm...
There are many reasons why you made the agonizing decision to go for the CS so to just turn back on that decision at this point is too late...

This surprise reaction from xOM is eye-opening tho. What is he thinking? Does he realize that if he wants all the visitation that you pops are part of that package? He thinks he will be spending all this time with fh--WRONGO!

And I live in CA and was able to put xMM's name on my OC's birth certificate without his input nor consent.

If I could go back, I would never have done that tho.

I don't think you should worry about that. I don't even think you need to worry about his visitation demands. He'll get his fill of you and realize he needs to leave your marriage alone.

There IS no getting xOM out of your lives. At least not for about 18 years or so?

That's when the OC will decide if xOM remains in OC's life or not.

Now that my OC is grown, he knows who his "real" father is and that's where his loyalties lie--with my H, his stepdad, the one who raised him!

<small>[ May 12, 2003, 01:09 PM: Message edited by: BINthereDUNthat ]</small>

Methinks OM been smokin' some bad weed.

pops, is cs really worth having MM/OM in your life and marriage for the next 18 years?

I let my young teen-age exH off 18 years of cs. I didn't think it was worth the fight. My children decided for themselves as they grew up. One has contact with their father, one never had contact, or wished to.

I do feel that if OM is going to have visitation, FH should never speak or see OM again. It can be arranged in court.

Good luck, ember

belle & ember,,,, i have several reasons for asking fh to seek cs.

1 for ME when fh brought grace into our home it brought the om with her forever. has nothing to do with forgiveness. i am very much a realist. this is where our life is now so lets figure it out and deal with it.

2 i don't want to feel he is out there lurking somewhere and then jumping back into my life years from now. as long as he is paying cs i will know exactly where he is.

3 what hapens when grace is old enough to seek him out on her own. and he tells her he wanted to be in her life but i chased him off? what happens to any relationship grace and i have at that time?
seems like that would her her very deeply.

4 although messy and complicated now. grace is young enough that she won't remember any of this crap once all the wrinkles are ironed out. she will be able to adjust to our lifestyle and grow secure knowing many people love her

5 at my age who knows what kind of health problems may occur. look what happened 5 weeks ago. if something untimely were to happen to myself fh and my kids will need all the help they can get to make ends meet.

6 the reality of my w's a is that for a brief time in her life she fell in love with another man for who cares what reason. to ME with om involved it forces us both not to ever forget what can come between us and allows us to either choose to let it happen again or continue to work on our relationship

7 i am not the kind of person that can steal a child. although this is not a game if grace is going to love me as her daddy. she needs to be able to do so with all the cards on the table. we can't play with half a deck.

8 it will force om to make a decision of being a good father or walking away. if he chooses to be a father then grace wins. if he chooses to walk away then grace wins because i will still be here to love her regardless and she will not have to wonder about her bio dad. he will have made his choice.

9 I feel that om has to take responsibility for his actions. if one of my boys were to get a girl pregnant i would expect nothing less of him then to be at least financialy responsible. i would not want him to walk away and act like creating c's is something to take lightly.

10 it teaches my children that you can over come some very difficult situations in life but you still have to be resposible for your actions

11 om is a serial cheater. if this causes him to do nothing else but to use birth control if he continues cheating then it will have helped from allowing this nightmare to enter someone elses life.

the reality of our situation is om is in our life whether paying cs or not. he lives in the same town and his kids go to school together with mine. i am going to be running into him for the next 16 years anyway.

Pops,

Of course, you have done nearly the opposite of what I did---and I could give you a laundry list of why NOT to have the OM involved.

Having said that, your list is terrific: well reasoned, logical, and thoughful. Good luck with the court date---my guess is that you'll have no trouble with it.

Pops,

I know outsiders are frowned upon but I am going to make a suggesion. You should be involved in the mediation with your Wife. It affacts both of you and your family. Since you have stated that your wife is easily swayed by the OM it will help stabalize the out come with your mediation. I might also contact a lawyer and find out the laws for California. It will give you a better idea where you stand legally and what the outcome would be in court.

Just some thoughts to think about.

Pops and FH,

I don't have any further advice than what you've already recieved! But, I did want you both to know that I'm praying for you guys and the mediation tomorrow!

Love,

Tigger

k,,,, thank you for being able to see where i am coming from. i am sure you can give a list longer then your arm. i in fact struggled with the cs issue for a while. sometimes saying yes and the next minute saying no. finally i realized that for me i had to be able to look myself in the mirror every day and i didn't think i could live with myself any other way. i don't even know why. pride? ego? revenge? self worth? control? self centeredness?

moi,,,,, i intend on attending mediation with fh. we have been working on her presentation since last thursday. in south county where we live only fh and om will be able to talk with mediator. all others wait outside in the hall. 1st one side, then the other, then together.

we did speak to an attorney yesterday. he gave us some good advice but nothing really hard core.he sort of rode the fence. so we'll see.

tmcm,,,,, if fh comes out of this any other way then happy i'm gonna go smoke some of that bad weed om is obviously on.

Hi Pops,

Something else I just thought about. When in mediation FH is faced with something she is not sure about just have her say I will think about it. Then durring a break she come outside and the two of you discuss it. If the OM says anything negative about this tactic have FH say I have every right to discuss this with my Husband and to think about all sides of the issue before making a decision. I am sure the Mediator will not frown upon this. It will help FH from agreeing to anything that in the long run will cause damage.

It just seems to me that the OM is trying to control FH still. This will be a way out of FH making any rash decisions because sounds like he can still push her buttons.

Pops,

Mediation is what it sounds-a discussion with a 3rd party about how to resolve issues.

IT is not a binding scenario.Regardless of what is decided in mediation, and written up at the mediation appointment, it is not binding until or unless it is sent to family court and approved. The people involved in mediation can take the written up draft of what has been decided to anyone they wish, including legal counsel, prior to having it approved and introduced to court.That is done after mediation appointment.

So, Pops, anything discussed in mediation is not binding until or unless both parties say it should be sent to court at that time. Your wife should not do this until reviewed by you, legal counsel, or whomever.

pops, when FH is in mediation with OM, OM's wife will be in the hall with you. I believe you told me once that you have never spoken to her.

This is your chance. Keep in mind, you and MM's wife, the two betrayed, didn't ask for this.

She is still married to OM, so I assume she also wishes to work on her marriage, as do you.

Maybe you can find some common ground, and see how she feels?

Just an idea.

ember

I forgot to ask you, if not, why not? If it is on the advice of your attorney, I ask the same question of them.

ember

One small correction to what Unhappy Wife said...whatever is written up in mediation DOES in fact become binding, so you DO have to be careful as to what you agree to. ONce something is agreed to and signed in mediation, it is submitted to the court and signed by the judge and is essentially made a court order. Afterwards, if one party fails to follow what they agreed to, that party can be held in contempt of court. That is the way it works here - just letting you know, if FH agrees and signs something in mediation, it will probably be binding on her and legally a court order.
-cd