Hi everyone, I rarely come anymore. I am so busy with the kids with my husband off in Iraq that I barely have time to do the bills let alone read email.

But I have a question. I once again received a letter from child support requesting an increase in our child support. For those who remember me know we had to move just to afford the first amount.

My question. If I approach the OW about agreeing to an amount instead of going through this whirlwind every 2-3 years how binding is it in courts? I know some of your went around the public departments. I just want to have a set amount and be done with it. It brings up old wounds and I can never try and plan anything financially. Like we really need a new car, we have needed one for over 2 years now. But I can't even think about trying to budget when this keeps coming up. She is already getting $600 a month. No contact.

Do you think it is possible to close this chapter in my life and try and move on? I know we have to pay for the next 13 years. But can't there be an amount that will be satisfying and done with. Any advice or help would be appreciated. I of course would have to handle all of this delicate topic on my own because he is gone. Thanks for any help or suggestions.

babstr.

Hello,
I am not really sure. All I know that OW is entitle to a review every 3 years. Even if you agree on amount she can still go in 3 years for another a review. I believe it is her right, but that is what I have been told. I am not 100% sure on that.

Dawn

babstr,

In the state we go through, each ch-support case is assigned to a specific person in their office. Do you have any contact person like that? You could first appeal to that person without going through court. I've heard that SOME mediation is binding, if it is set up that way with a certain type of mediator (I forget the technical name), but most mediation is not binding. In our case, H agreed to a certain amount through the ch-support officer assigned to him, and the court approved that agreement.

Also, do you have your husband's Power of Attorney? The ch-support office would NOT talk to me without my faxing PofA to them when my H was deployed.

I agree with Dawn re: the 3-year reassessments, at least for the state we work with, but if your H's income did not increase, why should the ch-support?!

I hope your H gets to come home SOON.
Best wishes,
J

Ok, here is the problem. When this all came out we lived like most people paycheck to paycheck. We didn't have an extra $600 laying around to give her. We coudn't pay our bills. So my H had to get a different job that paid more money just to cover the child support.

So in the end we moved, left our families and got more income, but not for us. He got just enough raise to pay the intial child support. We don't own a home, we still have the same cars and nothing has improved for our lives. but his income did go up. So we are still living paycheck to paycheck, which of course is worse now because he is deployed. So I am scraping by, literally, and at times not getting by. But now they will take his income. And she will she will be up for more money.

Than guess what. He will have to take a second job in order for us to cover our bills because we don't have ANY extra. That is what I mean by the vicious cycle. He has worked really hard for the last three years to clean things up. And all his work will never benefit his family. She will get all the raises and we get nothing. I understand that she can get more. But at what point is enough, enough. I would do flips if I had $600 a month for each of my children. But I don't even have enough to give them the basics at times. And now she gets more, and we can't even get by.

I just don't understand how we can ever get some just some of our own lives back. Am I suppose to never be able to buy a home, or update our cars because she gets every little scrap. I just can't believe how much money goes out every month.

Do you know that if I was to go for a house loan that the most I can have is 32% of debt. But because of the 20% she gets I can't ever be under that amount. Between a car payment, and student loans we are always over that debt amount. How do people ever make it on their feet when paying child support.

I just don't want to hear what her rights are anymore. I just wish for once in my life someone cared how my family should have some rights too. My H has paid. He has only gotten like a 2% raise for the last three years. And we needed a lot more than that to cover her new amount. I am just tired. I should not have posted here.

babstr.

babstr,
After showing the courts proof of income AND what it is costing your family just to tread water, (bills, loans, etc.) how can the courts raise cs?

Maybe cd will come along and let you know something different.

I guess we all live in fear of another raise in cs.

babstr, please come here with any problems and let us be your sounding board. Most here understand and are your friends.

God bless your H and our troops away from home.

Like you don't have enough worries and now that letter comes! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

Peace to you.

love
Debi

Gem,

That is what it was like in the beginning. They said basically they don't care what our bills are. The only bill and child that is important is the oc. My first daughter was born 3 months after the oc, so she doesn't count. The only rights that are important to our state is the oc. Their attitude is that my h should have thought about not having other kids if he couldn't support the oc. Which is total b.s. that doesn't apply to this situation. WE are married. And we planned our pregnancy, he didn't even know about the ow being pregnant, it was a one night stand. She told him after I had already become pregnant.

They don't care basically. She gets her money and then we have to figure out how to live. They don't ever consider our situation. I spend money and time the first time around to be told just that. Too bad so sad. Society only values certain children. That is why I can't feel like come here very often. You'll hear violins played for that poor ow and her poor oc. But screw my children. Once again why I shouldn't come here. I have enough problems with this deployment.

babstr.

***When this all came out we lived like most people paycheck to paycheck. We didn't have an extra $600 laying around to give her***

There is absolutly NO justice in cs and to expect any is just setting yourself up for some major disappointment.
Please be careful about your H getting a second job. The cs gestapo can raise his cs payments based on that additional income.
We just got done in court and our cs went up $200.00 per month because my H was working all the OT he could get to try and make up for the original cs. The judge said he didn't care why his income went up, but oc was entitled to a piece of it. Plus we have already been told when our youngest enters college in 2 years to the tune of $30,000.00 tuition that we will NOT be able to count him as a dependent and the cost of his tuition will not be calculated so our cs will go up to around the $1000.00 per month mark. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />
Until we all join forces and find an attorney with enough balls to fight the system we are all screwed to the wall.

jtigger

Boy, babstr, I feel for you. And I am beginning to hate the court system.

This is what I would do if I were you-- have your H ask OW for her income, etc. You can ask that individiually and see if it is likely the CS would go up.After all, they hase it on not just H's income but OW;s income too. If she is working, her income may have increased, or child care may have changed, etc. Get the local forms according to your state and send them to her. You can do this without legal counsel.

Then, if I were you, I would seriously consider filing for legal separation to get CS for your children. Ask CD for some suggestions.This will decrease what OW can get, especially for an increase.Do this just to protect your economic needs, not necessarily to separate. IN many states,you can still be separated even if you live in same home.Check with CD about this.
Consider it.Fight back.This is ridiculous.

And now I am sick about when my children hit college age-to think I won't be able to send them to college because of CS sickens me. I hate this.

babstr,
I'm truly sorry for your situation. If XOW is still active duty, then she's NO DOUBT gotten several raises the last 3 years--cost of living plus any promotions in rank, and it seems that should change ch-support to less rather than more, since your H's only went up 2% in 3y. Also, has XOW moved to a different state (due to military life)? Maybe you could go through a different state's laws? Just some thoughts.

Best wishes,
michele

babstr, unhappy wife and Jenny have some good solid advice.

Although the thought of a legal seperation is probably sickening to you, look into it as a small soloution.

As Jenny said you can include ow income. We did (ow doesn't work outside the home, and has a huge trust fund), but it didn't matter as she reported 10,000.00 per year. (yeah, right. Latest designer clothes, manicures and pedicures at her home, a new car, a guy who picks it up and delivers it back, washed and waxed each week, a cleaning lady and nanny each day,oh the list goes on...)

At any rate it didn't help us one bit.

We also pay health insurance while her children of the marriage are on medicaid as her H has no health benefits....They work the system. Her brother is her c's physician! Hey I know all this because we were all friends, remember?

So basically it DOES only matter about oc, not marriage c's. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

Problem is that each case is so very different with different circumstances and no court looks into the situations.

I feel for you.
I hope you and H can decide together when he gets home what your next move will be.

Babstr, I'll pray for you and yours.
I really hope CD stops by with a few suggestions.

Hey, maybe you can apply for some kind of assistance program after the faux seperation....

Here's to better days. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

love
Debi

Hi Babster,
I am so sorry to hear that you are feeling so low...and I am not sure that anything I can say will make you feel any better. First off, if your husband gets a second job, the child support agency can and will include that income in calculating what ow will get. Not only that, but they will hold him to the higher amount in the future - even if it becomes impossible for him later to continue to work the second job. Therefore, having h getting a second job is probably the worst possible move you can make. It is very likely to burn you in the end.

Also, approaching ow to offer her a set amount is ok - however, nothing the ow agrees to is ever going to be "set in stone". The child support system is set up to be, in theory, going to the child, and as such, the court will not allow the mother (ow) to bargain away the child's rights to the full amount.

The way I see it - from having a tremendous amount of experience in the past year with the child support system (and from a legal perspective, instead of the bs's perspective) there are basically two sure ways to help yourself here. One is for YOU to work. I know you don't like that idea - plus some states would factor your income in as well...although the states that do that are few and far between. The other option is a faux separation. You know I am an advocate of that - but honestly, it works better than any other solution I have seen. It is - as far as I can tell - the only true legal loophole available to the bs. I know that you truly believe that since your children were born AFTER the oc, you would be stuck with the lesser amount, which would not impact ow's take. But in the recent caselaw I have read, there is a real trend towards ALL states being forced to consider ALL of the children equally in cs matters. I think that if you really PUSHED the issue, you might be successful. I have piles of caselaw from several states that support that idea, and while the courts of your state are not bound by them, they would have to consider them as persuasive authority at least. I forget what state you are in - you'd have to remind me for me to get a better idea about the guidelines there.

ANyway, sorry that my thoughts are not very positive. I agree that you are stuck in a vicious cycle. If there is ANYTHING AT ALL I can do to help, please let me know.

With love,
cd

babster,
I wanted to say I am truly sorry for what you have been going through. I fear the same thing will happen to me when child support is brought up. I was just telling you what the laws in IL are. I do not think they are fair by no means. You can get a lawyer and fight the CS amount.

I know here in Wisconsin there is a bill in Congress right now trying to pass to change the child support amount saying it is not fair for the other childern born after and all the childern should be consider. It also states the amount is too much because these fathers cannot afford the basics after child support is taken out saying the amount is too much.

So, maybe if this pass IL will follow.

Dawn

Thank you everyone for your responses. My case is in Illinois. They DO NOT include her income. They feel that is amount is the 20% no matter what she makes.

I have considered working but then we cannot afford child care and because we moved I have no family that can watch my children. Between my husband's day job and military job he travels a lot. At this moment I am also nursing and she does not take a bottle. I have looked into working midnights but like I said we have done that before. Before we moved. But then he would have to go out of town and I couldn't work because there was no one to watch the kids. Even if I work 20 hours a week that barely brings in $100 a week. If I am lucky. But like I said I am in a vicious cycle.

We did look into the separation with any attorney. And we WERE caught in the trap by Illinois on the fact that my child was younger. There was nothing I could do. We went into arrears for over 10 months fighting the amount and showing that we didn't have it. They didn't care. They said they would take the cut out of his check and after that we would have to learn to live.

By the way the state I moved to, is good and bad. On one hand they do factor in my children in when figuring and do include her income. On the other hand they include any money that I would make. So even though I am not working there really isn't any way to get the case moved here the oc/ow still are in Illinois. From my understanding Illinois is the least understanding for the fathers. My best friend's dad works for the Department and he cares about me and basically said that there was nothing I could do. That there main objective is to get the money to the ow no matter what. And because she went to the department she has lawyers for free we don't.

Illinois bases everything on age. And they base the amount after a set tax amount too. So even though we pay like 30% in taxes to Uncle Sam they only take out 21% for taxes, which always means I am paying cs on money that the govt gets.

I plan on going to work full time when my kids are in school and i don't have to worry about a sitter. But that won't be for years. We considered having only one child in the beginning, but I didn't want this running my life. So we have two, but there will be no more because of this financial hell. We don't want to have kids that we can't afford. We struggle but are blessed to have them both.

Thank you again for all of your words. but like I felt when I started this note. There isn't anything that can be done, just grip the desk and hold on. Cause in the end we are always going to get screwed by this situation it doesn't matter how much healing goes on. It will be like it happens again over and over. I wish I could get out of this hell. Sometimes I can't believe this is my life!

Between this and my husband being deployed I might go insane.

babstr.

babster,
I grew up in Illionis, my brother is divorced and has 4 kids in Ill and he only pays $245 a week for 4 kids. So, I guess some how he beat the system. The way I understand it is because he kept getting fired and finally when everything went to court he did not have a job so they based it on his unemployement check.

Now, I believe he makes close to $ 50,000 a year now. However,my ex-SIL did not take him back to court because she did want to deal with all the crap again. But I think she has finally decided to take him back to court.

All, I know that there are some people that are fighting for equal protection. Hopefully, Illionis will be joining the fight soon.

Dawn

Dawn,

The other thing with your brother is if there is a divorce it can be different. My friend doesn't get 20% because there were other things that happened between the lawyers and visitation and stuff. So the child support was worked out as an amount not as a percentage. But because the ow went to the Department of Public Aid they override any lawyer. They have their own lawyers and they go for the full 20% because they can. That Department is more powerful than the IRS. It amazes me. They threatened to garnish everything we would own or make when we were fighting the amount. How they would contact the employers and IRS to make sure they got every little bit. I was like don't we have ANY rights. And the bottom line is no because the judges and lawyers just blank stamp those cases. Most of the time it is a fairer situation if there is a divorce. I try to make it be water under the bridge.

babstr

I don't know how helpful this is likely to be, but i'll tell you what I have learned about the cs system.

#1 if you're going through the courts you're VERY likely to get screwed (this you already know). When my son was born I figured out very quickly that cs was the best system in the world for beating up his father if I wanted to. In my particular case I chose not to.

My son's father and I came to a private agreement re: child support. We went to court, sat down with the judge and agreed that this was a private and personal matter. And that we didn't want to be part of any public system. for the 2 of us it took a LOT of chutzpah and laying down of old resentments.

If you have ANY kind of descent relationship with this woman i'd suggest calling her and seeing if you guys can't work something out.

As these situations are inheriently loaded i'm sure it's going to take a lot of work, diplomacy and patience on both sides. And truthfully, as unfair as it is, you might even have to kiss her butt a little bit.

If she's reasonable at all you may be able to pry open the door of understanding and have some sort of negotiation. Reminding her that she can always fall back on the public cs system if necessary.

When/If you come to some agreement i'd get it in writing and really really stick to it.

You may do well to read up on negotiation before you begin and leave lawyers out of it if you can.

Also, find out what else she wants. It may not be just about the money for her (who knows). When my son was young I would have given my left arm for respite care or help with medical insurance. There may be things that you can barter in exchange for lower payments or a private agreement.

Best of luck
KS

ps If this ow is all about the money a popular alternative is to pay her more cs than the courts would usually give in exchange for keeping it out of court and a don't ask-don't tell policy around your finances. For example, if you currently pay $600/mo and she wants it raised to $620. Pay her $670 in exchange for her NOT going to court. And agree to renegotiate every 4.5 years instead of 2. For your part make the payments w/ check or money order or something traceable to cover your butt.

If she's not in court your H can get a second job and she's likely not to know aobut it.

I am new to this board but in my situation I found out it wasn't all about the money. It was also about the OW feeling like the father was giving the OC some emotional support and knowing that the father would participate in the childs life even if it was minimal. Knowing what the OW really wanted and by allowing me to put up some "safety" boundaries we were able to come up with our own "agreement". It has worked out a lot better for us...probably for the OW/OC too.