I read on this forum long before I had the courage to post. But as soon as I started posting, I noticed that more and more members started fading away.

A post can stay on this board for days and not get an answer. The oldies who were so wonderful with their advice don't seem to be around anymore.

We miss you ... like jenny (thanks for answering my post!), catnip, heavenly, gabi, bastr, flowerseed, k, pops. These are the people who helped me get through so many sad and lonely nights.

I am grateful that tigger and some of the others are still around, but the board has certainly lost some of its luster.

I am happy that many of us have moved on and recovered from this ordeal. But it is sad that there are so few of us trying to talk to each other. I know there must be others who are reading but not contributing.

Is there something we can do to get it back the board's appeal? Ideas anyone?

marie

Marie,

I know what you mean about the boards being so different! They have changed dramatically since I first posted myself! I can tell you that one of the factors of the differences is that there have been some pretty harsh "board wars" which has caused many to refrain from posting. **and for any who are lurking from any other boards, I'm not trying to point the finger, just stating facts as I've seen them over the past 2 1/2 yrs**

I too miss many of the oldies and wish they would pop in to at least say how they are doing! But, also understand for those who were personally attacked for their decissions of NC and the emotions they go through. I personally know of a few who needed to "retire" as coming to the boards was keeping them from moving any further in their recovery.

Me, I will probably always be around, as I see my mistakes as something others could learn from. I've sorta been on both sides of this coin, only the OC is mine, not my H, and we don't deal w/CS. But, I've dealt with the feelings of betrayal, and can empathise with what you and other's are going through in that aspect of the situations!

Hopefully more will show up soon.

Tigger

PS, I'm humbled that you mentioned me with many of my favorites!

Sorry, I read your post but I didn't feel I could contribute.
Myself, I am dealing with emotional rollercoaster of having my eldest son in Iraq.
I check in and have given words of encouragement where I felt I could. Also, lazy I guess, I hoped someone else could post more positively, because I am not feeling real postitive myself.
We went 7 weeks without hearing from him, then 2 weeks ago he called his GF, who called me. We received letters on Mon & Tue 2 weeks ago. Now we hear nothing and the news from over there is not encouraging.
Well that's my situation.

As for yours, I thing your husband needs to grow up and realise he has a lot to make up for if he wants his marriage to work. What ever agreements you and he made to stay together, he MUST abide by. He has to regain the trust HE trashed.
Any contact with OW, especially if it is hidden, is not acceptable. It puts him immediately in the wrong. By his lying and cheating he is now obligated to account for every minute of his day until you are comfortable.
It tore the marriage apart and now he must put into 200% to make it work. Not saying you are off the hook, but you didn't cheat on him did you?

You asked I responded. Hope I helped.
Texasgirl

<small>[ June 18, 2003, 10:45 AM: Message edited by: Texasgirl ]</small>

dear tigger,

thank you for the reply. You made a lot of sense -- I guess the board goes through different periods, ebbs and flows like the tide. Right now we are in a lull but given a bit of time it will most likely flourish again.

Of course I would include you in my favorite list of "oldies". Your baby is growing up on this board. And, although I don't think I have directly written to you, you always try to be honest and to make people see without the "rose colored glasses".

I am so glad that Abbi is thriving and that you are staying around to teach us how to cope with those feelings of betrayal and uncertainty.

Texasgirl,

It is okay that you did not answer my post. It was more of a rant than anything else. But, I loved your post in reply to Joshmom.

I also read at TOW from time to time. There was a post that was very interesting until it got ruined by one of the usual BS vs OW wars. The question was asked "Why do BS's say the things they say" -- like the A was a one-night stand, the H never loved the OW, etc.

I replied on that one -- because that is what our husband's tell us. My H told me that the OW was just an adventure and did not mean anything to him. He also said he never wanted to have a child with her. Is that true? Or, did he get forced into making a decision once he got caught? I will never know because a liar lies to everyone.

All I know is that he chose to stay with me. He didn't have to. There is nothing to force us to stay together. And, like you said in your other post, I happen to love him very much. Even while he was having the A, he was always there for me at family gatherings, during sickness, vacations, etc.

So that brought me to your best point -- then what kind of quality time was he spending with the OW? She could not call him at home. She did not see him on weekends, generally. He did not share any holidays with her. What kind of life is that to lead?

I am 100% in agreement with you. Everyone should try to find a mate that is free to be with them, commit to them and devote their time to them. That is the least everyone deserves in a relationship.

marie

Marie,
Your post really hit the nail on the head. The boards aren't what they used to be. I came here late 2000 in my darkest hour. Hopelessly torn to pieces by the evil of adultery and the consequences that follow. There were so many beautiful women her to welcome me with open arms. To tell me what I was feeling was 100% normal, whether my thoughts were right or not. I could go on a rant about my hatred for the OW, my disdain for the OC's existence in my life. And I didn't get my hand slapped for thinking such thoughts "out loud".

Over the following year my marriage went through ups and downs. My H even had an EA with a women I thought was my best friend. No one ever told me I was an idiot for hanging in there. They encouraged me to look deeply in my heart and my husband's heart to make decisions to either work on my marriage or throw in the towel. I was free to think and feel honestly, and to work through all of the emotions. I was given space to evolve.

Unfortunately the board was changed dramatically by the arrival some very judgement folks who thought that ever word uttered against OW or OC was a reason to point out how wrong they thought it was. Myself and others never felt it was safe to express what was going on in our hearts and heads. I remember once getting my hand slapped and told how immature I was because I made a joke about my OW's mustache.

I know I personally continued to post, especially to newbies, because I wanted to be the apart of the stable force that helped me through my healing. Unfortunately the judgemental ones never let up and would pounce a newbie or oldie at ever opportunity. It took to much energy to defend those being judged and justify to the judgers that pure and raw emotion was natural. Quite frankly it was exhausting.

It's so sad to see the evolution of this board. I hope you and others have had an opportunity to see "the way it was" by searching old posts. I like to go back and read them to remind me of how far I've come.

I guess in a nutshell that's how I feel about this place. I too miss our sanctuary. Perhaps someday it will rise again. And I hope you find the support you are seeking.

Best of luck,
Z.

marieluvsrich,
I also came here in late 2000.

As Zebrababy said, it was quite a relief to hear from other women who had been blindsided by the same circumstances.

We once had a safehaven, away from criticism.

We once had a wild woman/man board that could help the betrayed spouse mainly.

No ow telling us to accept oc.
No bs accepting oc AND making you feel as if your decision was the most horrible thing to do to a child! (My opinion stands that if NC is implicated, to hell with ow's opinion OR other members telling you that you are horrible for turning your back on your "flesh and blood")

When I wrote of NC it was from Dr. Harleys' own mouth. What he felt was best to repair the severe damage done by A/OC.

In a bs/Husband, it was recommended to leave OM out of the equasion altogether.

The boards have changed.

I read infrequently these days. I was notified in an e-mail of this post.

Frankly marieluvsrich, there is no longer a unity here.

Most of us are too tired to justify our choices any more.

My and my husbands life has transcended the ow/oc.

They simply are non-existent for us. Oh! They try to be! It simply is all about us again.

Right? Who is to say? For us, it is pretty much back to normal.

Steve Harley has a lot to do with that.
He is worth the cost. He allows the WS a way to communicate to BS the feelings and remorse and making the BS feel safe.

For now, I feel safe.

I wish all of the lurkers and members here serenity and happiness.

God grants prayers in a way you will never know.

All I ever prayed for was to "show me the path I should follow".

Here I am.
Safe and sound and stress free again.... Well not stress free from life, but my H and I are reunited in a huge forceful way. For that I am greatful.

Bless you Marie....and all the other newbies.

As far as the oldies go....Hey ya all!!!

love
Debi

You know when you learn your husband has had an affair you go thru a gamut of emotions.
First is the shock of learning about the affair. You want to know WHY he has done this to you. HOW could he do this to you (and your children if you have any).
THen you get angry. I remember wanting to run through the house wanting to break things.
Then you get to acceptance where you decide how you want to cope, whether to leave or try to rebuild the relationship.
Then you follow through with your decision.
It is really what when you go through when you lose a loved one to death. Because it is a death, the death of a marriage, your marriage.
That is how you deal with it.

Have you seen a counselor? Have you talked to the Harleys. My H and went through this before I found this site. I used the Divorce Busting book, following the guides in it. It was later that I found Harley. I found this site a haven in spite of the interlopers.
Don't give up, the biggest key is COMMUNICATION, but make sure it is never accusatory. Always use "I" messsages. "When you do this, I feel this" " What I hear you saying is this, is that what you are telling me?"

Just what has worked for us.
TG

I posted last week and got absolutely no response. I really needed a shoulder, any shoulder. It's sad that so many great people have stopped coming to the board to offer or ask for support b/c they were afraid of the backlash they might face in openly stating their feelings. I have found myself retyping comments several times in an attempt to make them equally acceptable to the bs, ws, and ow on the board. It's just impossible. I already have to tip-toe around my h. I want to be able to come here and just let it all out. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Sorry Steph, I will go back and find your postings. No one should come here and be left alone out there. I usually wait for the others to respond before I add my 2 cents. If you read some of my posts, I have a tendency to come on a little strong, diplomacy, esp about this situation is not one of my strong suit. I prefer to hit it head on and deal with it, not tiptoe.
As far as the OW who come here and violate the haven this is supposed to be, they aren't worth responding to. Don't worry about them. There are some who try to be helpful, they have given us some interesting insights to the other side of this situation.
This is supposed to a place where you can vent and get support for your marriage. The others come back. Just hang in there.

TG

Thanks, Texasgirl. I know there's always going to be that one bad apple, but I still wish that we could all just get along! We are all dealing with our own great big, stinky pile of poop. There's no need to fling it at each other!

Hello,

I read this forum, but never respond because I'm not in the same position as many here and don't have any experience in these issues.

The no contact issue sticks in my crawl though . . . I just can't imagine having a child and pretending that I don't. I have one son, a toddler; he is the joy of my life. I can't imagine never seeing him again. I'd rather open a vein.

If I was the betrayed spouse and my wife got pregnant by someone else, I don't think I could raise the child as my own either. I don't think I could live in the same house . . . being reminded everday about what she has done. See, my thought are all over on these issues, I guess that is why I don't post.

Good luck to all of you, what a mess.

Hereandnow:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I just can't imagine having a child and pretending that I don't. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">and

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If I was the betrayed spouse and my wife got pregnant by someone else, I don't think I could raise the child as my own either.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is one of the major issues. Until you're actually facing these situations, you really can't accurately predict how you will act. And a major reason for this support board is the unique needs that the individuals facing this experience have over the rest of the MB crowd.

And when things degenerate into sweeping statements---it does tend to push contributers back into the woodwork. I haven't noticed too much malice as of late, but I tend to have very thick skin.

I could have gladly taken that child and raised my H's OC, but her mother was part of the package. That I couldn't take.
He was the one. He felt that the OW got pregnant on purpose since she got pregnant after he told her he slept with her "one last time" to end it. He believes she thought if I was pg and he wasn't leaving me, then if she got pg, he might leave me for her. She was willint to wait.
I know that belief does not hold true for other OW, but that is his belief. He said she tricked him, she wanted the child, she can have it. It is HER child not his.
I think he will regret it, but I don't want to open that Pandora's Box.
But, that is my choice to make and I will live with it. We all have choices and we live with them.
Texasgirl

Hi Texas Girl,

That has got to be so difficult.

I had a neighbor who left her husband and 3 children after beginning an "A" on-line, and
left her family to go be with the OM in
another state. Her husband was devastated!!

2 months later she came back "sorry" and pregnant. Her husband has taken her back
baby and all. I thought "wow!!" Is that
forgiveness or what? Maybe co-dependency?
What? I don't know how I would handle that
either.

God Bless you, and I pray all the best for you.

I was just curious if blood tests were done on the baby to determine if it's truly your husbands. I don't know if you could look at
it this way, but accept the child because he/she is a child, and it's not the baby's fault he/she
came into the world this way. Maybe you can find
a way to really love the child beyond it all.
Do you think that is possible now?

I know it really is your choice.

Sent with Love, -Ladysheep

Sorry Texasgirl,

I should have said, can your husband accept
the child, not you, because you already have.

-Ladysheep

Marie,

I left this board for two reasons. The first was that I was wasting too much of my time at work on this board. I feared I was jeopardizing my job and I felt quilty as thousands of my coworkers got laid off when I felt like I had to be the least productive employee in my whole company of tens of thousands of employees. I owed my employer more and I owed myself more. To feel good about myself, I needed to become a productive employee. I have succeeded in great part, although I now have a going to the gym during work kind of obsession going on.

The second was because of the constant fighting. Now, we have contact with OC. I love and care for her. I know that I am unusual in that aspect. I wasn't often the target of any WS/OW anger on this board--I met their expectations of what a good BW would act like--come to accept and love the child. Since, I wasn't under direct attack, why did I worry so much about the fighting going on on this board? I don't know. I hated seeing good people hurt and leave the board (BSs and some OWs). But more than that I felt the board had become unproductive--a waste of my time. You seldom heard anyone quote a Harely principle or even talk about their own concrete plans to improve his or her marriage.

I came to the board at a time when we could vent about our own particular OW. For a while that was great for me. A place to let go of the anger, but soon enough, I knew that I needed to turn my focus off of her and on to our own marriage. Now even the newbies aren't allowed to engage in a good vent session. We used to have a lot of fun here picking on the OW. It wasn't kind; it wasn't Christian, but sometimes it was productive and helpful.

I hope you all can build a good strong community again. The need is so great. I still love Stacia's post on "pain is pain." God's honest truth is that affairs (usually) rip apart all parties--wives, husbands, OPs, kids of the marriage (or both marriages if OP is married) and kids of the affair. Affairs suck and the aftershocks will last the rest of our lives. I have come to know that my life will never again be what it once was, but it is good again.

Please remember that venting isn't the only, or even the most important part of this board or the Harley methodology. They are basically arguing a behaviorist point of view. Act loving (both spouses) and the feelings will follow. For a lot of people here that seems to have held true.

Blessings,
MJ

<small>[ June 23, 2003, 09:22 AM: Message edited by: MaryJanes ]</small>

Hello, I am new to this site but not the situation. My H has visited this site months ago and shared it with me. I am posting to this reply because it caught my attention. I want repsonses that will accept my feelings and encourage me. That is why I chose to post my question under this topic. I am the betrayed spouse. My story is long so I am only going to give a little background before my question. I have healed in many ways, but now am coming to a new phase of life.
My H's affair was 4 years ago and as a result has a 2 1/2 year old son. My H and I have 2 D's of our own 8&5. My H has seen his son since his first week of life. He has visitation every other Sat. I have visited on occasion. My first reaction to having him in our life was no way no how. But I saw how my H (who had a father who "wasn't there") felt and I began to realize that it was not the c's fault and that he deserved to know his daddy and all the love we all want and need. I realized that he too is a child of GOD just like me and you.
We are going to tell our d's soon that they have a brother. We have not done so yet, because we wanted to work on us first and make sure we were strong and where we stood as far as blending him into our family. It is not telling the girls that I am struggling with, I am worried about what to tell others (parents of friends, teachers, aunts, uncles, cousins...) when our d's talk about their brother. I am very concerned about what others think (which by the way..I hate!) about me and my family, life. I do not want others to look at me as weak because I am stronger than I have ever been in my life and so is our marriage! I remember once someone told me I need to be more tough. Well! Now I am! Are there any suggestions out there or anyone who has had an experience like mine who can give me some advice share experiences or give encouragement??? I don't want to have to tell our whole story of the A to everyone who asks where the brother came from! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />
Thank you for listening.

makingitwork,,,,, i don't see where you have to give anyone any details of your h's A. you can simply say that he had an A and leave it at that. when my w had her A and resulting c family members tended to ask me "how i was doing?" instead of what caused her to stray. they also kind of took my lead. they watched how i was handling things and just followed suit. they have all excepted our little peanut as if she was my own.

i wouldn't worry about anyone thinking you were to weak. as you already know anybody that goes through this and comes out with their sanity has the heart of a lion and the patience and tolerence of an angel. pops

Thank you pops! It helps to hear what experience you have had. My Dad in particular took the news very hard. He had trouble for a month or 2 looking my H in the eye. You are right about others seeing how you handle it. No one in my family even knew anything was wrong. I think that he sees how strong my H and I are and how we are still the loving family we always were so things are better now. He seems to have lightened up for now anyway. I know he will not be thrilled we are telling our girls and going to be bringing the c into our life everyother weekend. He thinks they will be in grave danger (that is what he said when I told he and my mom a year and a half ago.) I think the danger is the SECRET and that is why I want everything out in the open. I know the girls may be angry with their dad when they are old enough to understand but we will cross that bridge when we get to it.
Anyway, thank you for sharing. It helps to clam my fears. I applaud you also for your courage and strength. I never thought I would be able to do what I am doing!

makingitwork,,,,,, i agree with you that the danger is the secret. your children need only to know that they have a brother for now. at their ages they may have a couple of wierd questions but i will bet they will be so happy to have a little brother that it will amaze you. i know that the c's fh and i had together were a huge help to me as they gave me an excellent lesson in acceptence and unconditional love. as they get older and start to understand more of conception and relationships more can be explained to them as is age appropriate.

as for your mom and pop are concerned. you need to simply explain to them that you and your husband are continueing on with your marriage and are going to be raising 3 children together. with or without their support. and you hope it is WITH it.

again don't even go into detail with anyone about where the oc came from. after i had made the decision to stay in our marriage, when people would ask me where grace came from my answer depended on who was asking. the closer the person was to me the answer was simple. fh had an A. i never gave any impression that i held it against her. more of a we're just trying to get the pits out of our bowl of cherries. no one ever looked at me as weak. instead you will here that you are stronger then they feel they could ever be. if people were more of an aquaintance then i would usually just change the subject with humor and move on.