I am a newbie to this board. I have read a lot of the postings about how this board has changed. I am sorry I might not ever know how it used to be. From the time I found this board I have found it very helpful and supportive. I have been on both sides of the coin and feel I can relate with both sides. So I never try to pass negative judgement, we all need to be able to vent at times. I found this board extremely better than another board I had found. On that board the regulars lashed out and tore people apart for the "background" they would put in the post...and wouldn't even give advice on the question or problem. I never really posted because I didn't need anyone to compound my problem and beat me down any further. So I appreciate all the views this board has to offer, and I am sorry people feel afraid to post.
My question is where can I find this TOW board? Maybe some of my problems would be better suited there because I wouldn't want to hurt anyone's feelings for expressing (venting) what I am going through. We all have are bad days and I sure would just like a shoulder...or an ear to listen to me. Maybe at those times I should vent else where. Thanks...and I hope everyone will keep reaching out to others. That is why this board is a step above the others!

If you are an OW, no one minds you posting so long as you don't bash the BW's who post concerning the OW in their lives.
This board has been traditionally a positive board, and has supportedd the OW who came here offering positive posts. Sometimes it helps to get feedback to understand the OW's point of view. It is when they bring some of the negative posts about the W of the MM they are involved with that they become offensive.
Or more frequently attack the couples who have chosen no contact with the OC but are supporting the child financially. Or, complain because right or wrong, they feel the OW is putting the screws to them.
Some OW have come here an expressed contempt for the wives who chose fight for their marriage.
Everyone has their story and their story is not the same as others, just sometimes similar.

Personally, I can't complain, the OW in our lives has stayed out of it the past 5 years, but we have no contact, just pay support.

Texas girl

Hi 4t&n'ss,

Before you join the other board, think about who you are and go from there.

Are you a Marriage Builder? Are you The Other Woman? Who do you want to be?

I think you may get conflicting input, especially if you don't see yourself as an OW anymore, and especially if you are moving in a different direction now...

If your goal is to really improve your marriage, I believe you can find support for that on this website. It helped ours! I believe my marriage is affair-proofed due to what we have both learned from reading Dr.Harley's Basic Concepts to reinforce what we know is the right thing to do.

<small>[ June 20, 2003, 12:03 AM: Message edited by: BINthereDUNthat ]</small>

Bravo BTDT!

4t&ns,
BTDT is right.

If you feel you are here to rebuild your marriage... THIS IS the board for YOU!

You may gain some insight from the TOW board... but they are definitely not geared toward helping you to rebuild your marriage.

I couldn't agree more with BTDT, and Stacia! About a month ago I checked out the TOW board after it had been referenced here. I didn't read much, so there may be some good stuff on there, but what I did read made me feel literally sick to my stomach. I guess that's a good sign that I'm pretty much out of the "fog". Months ago, while in my A, it may've been helpful....YEAH, helpful in aiding me to rationalize my stupid, thoughtless, sinful behavior!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> No kidding, other people involved in the same activity as me would support what I was doing!!!

I came here to MB, because I want to restore my M. To hang out over at TOW would only make me feel like I'm going backwards, kind of like wallowing in it.

Please don't get me wrong, although I'm working on restoration/recovery, and earning back my H's trust and respect, there are other issues I deal with such as withdrawal. Yes, it may be easier for me to be open on the TOW board about how awful my withdrawal has been, but because restoration/recovery, and my HUSBAND are number ONE with me, I feel this site is a much more constructive place for me to be.

As for whether I will ever post here on my withdrawal issues, I'm not sure yet. I actually wrote a post 10 days ago re. withdrawal, and some q's I had about it, but when I went to send it, I messed up something and lost it all. I got an uneasy feeling, and thought maybe I wasn't meant to post it, so I explained some of my feelings to Tigger in an email instead. She gave me some great advice, however I was exhausted by the end of the week, from keeping so busy. Thanks a lot, Tigger!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> ...j/k, your counsel really did help!

I am not an ow per se, because x-om was single, never married, and no girlfriend at the time. However, because I am the ww, I try to be sensitive because I realize I may represent the ow to some of you BS. I wouldn't want to ever hurt any of you by expressing some of the other issues I'm going through besides the restoration of my M.

I guess I'm asking if it would be wrong for me (or any other ws for that matter) to talk/ask about other issues outside of rebuilding a M, ie. withdrawal on here.

Just stuff I've been thinking about.

Thanks,
~aut

<small>[ June 20, 2003, 12:17 PM: Message edited by: autumnday ]</small>

YIKES....MAJOR TYPO!!!!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> sinless </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I meant SINFUL ...I PROMISE!!!!

Just wanted to add that before I got q's about a possible Fruedian slip!!

How can I edit one of my posts after I've already sent it? Is that something I can even do?

In the meantime, ignore my goofy typos, that I miss even after previewing <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" /> , ok? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Aut,

Well, thanks for that vote of confidence <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> JK back at you! But, I wanted to address your question about posting about your withdrawls, and such. You made it seem as if it had nothing to do with your recovery, and I feel you're wrong about that. It has EVERYTHING to do with your recovery! If you can't get past it, you will just back track to where you were at the beginning of the A. So, please post about your feelings of withdrawl. You did well when you posted about calling XOM's voice mail, and got some great advice! Just as long as you remain respectful of how your words may affect the BS's here, you will continue to get that awsome advice, and respect that you deserve! I know exactly how you feel, went through those emotions about 2 1/2 years ago! I earned my respect by doing what I just told you to do, respect how your words will affect the others on this board, but don't be afraid to post what's going on with you! How else can you get the full spectrum of support that's offered here?

Ok, I'll get off my soap box now <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Love,

Tigger

Aut,

To edit your post, look at the top of that specific post, click on the paperw/pencil, and it will bring you to a screen similar to the post a reply/new topic page, but will have the post in question. Change your typo or add stuff, then click "edit post".

Try it out to see if I gave the correct directions <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Cool, thanks Tig, looks like it worked.

BTW, no time for withdrawal crap today, gotta go put my life and the life of my baby at stake, by being the passenger in the car with my darling D, who has her temps!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> Pray for me!!!

Thanks to all of you that replied. I do think this is the board for me. But I am still trying to work out so much with the MM and the twins that I am not sure how much I can post her concerning it. He has just started with my CS automatically deposited, an amount we agreed on. But we haven't done anything through court, I have nothing in writing. I talked to his W once on the phone when she called, soon after she found out. She was surprisingly nice to me which I didn't feel like I deserved. But according to the phone call I was only supposed to deal with the attorney. The attorney wanted them to pay too much money and I think he found out if we did this through the court he would be paying a lot more so he then wanted to do our own agreement. Well, all I do is deal with him. Since having to deal with him we have become friends again. It has been about 8 months since his w has found out-she has putting him through hell. He doesn't want me to call and try to deal with her because he is afraid that she will raise the emotional turmoil he is already going through. But I would rather deal a little more with her and figure out where exactly she is on all the issues dealing with this. I am clueless, and he is slow on doing anything because he doesn't really want to talk about it with the W because he doesn't want to stir up anymore drama. I hate that my babies are turning a year next week and everything is still such a mess. I don't want to call the W against his wishes and have him start with being mean to me again. We just finally got to where we can talk. I don't want the W to have a fit if I call feeling like I am intruding on her. I just want to know where she stands on everything that is going on. I am one of those OW that is bending over backwards to try to do the best for everyone that is involved. But with MM and his W not working with me I feel like I am working an endless battle because I don't really know where the other side is. Did I just confuse everyone? That is part of my problem, I am so confused trying to do the right thing for everyone and I am starting to think it is impossible. I start to get angry and just don't even want to care about the MM and his W and just go out and get what I can through the court.
But that is what I was getting at, I read posts where the BS rant about their situation and how the OW shouldn't have gotten pregnant. Am I able to rant about my situation here without hurting the BS?
I am pretty intelligent i realize I can't force him or his W to do anymore than pay CS and what the courts would award as far as medical etc. but when I don't feel like being so rational can I vent here? Sometimes I like to live in fairy land wishing these babies can just grow up knowing they belong to two families so I don't have to sit them down years from now and explain something that might make them feel awful and question who they really are and come from. I am all up for the BS to put up all the guidelines as long as the twins can have minimal contact with their father. He already is without her knowing.... Isn't it said somewhere it is best to keep the enemy close so you can keep an eye on him or something to that effect? Well, in this case it would be in the BS best interest. With strict NC I am more likely to want to take them to court and get what I should be...and then I would want to take them to court every three years to get it adjusted. But that is through my anger. Not calling them once when I hadn't received any CS when I was told he would mail it the next day when he called. In a year he paid 1 1/2 times on an amount he set up. Sorry I didn't mean to start venting, just dealing with a lot.
Please excuse me if this post is hard to understand, I have five kids down here and it is hard to concentrate. I know I kind of went off on a wild rant. But that is where somtimes I think I need to go somewhere else. Thanks for all your support, I know this board has quality and standards no other boards are equal to. I hope I will always be welcome here!

4t&ns,

Well, as I said to Autumnday in my previous post, you need to respect the BS feelings on this board. When this part of the MarriageBuilder's website was created, it was mainly for the BS dealing with the situation of OC from an A. Therefore, I, myself, still consider myself being a guest here! I have always posted with the feelings of how would I react to this if I was the BS in this specific situation! Would saying it "this" way hurt someone who is dealing with the very real pain of an OC from an A? I would say that to actually "vent" about how xMM's W is behaving, that would cause some pain to the BW's on this board. I say that because, as I noted in marieluvsrich's thread, many BW's have left, or gone into lurking mode because of attacks from others.

I, personally, have no CS from XOM/MM, and NC. I believe that's the best way to go for those in "our" situations, especially if your H is willing to be the father to the babies in xMM's place. Yeah, the CS would be great, extra money for diapers, clothes, food, but it isn't worth it to us and we can afford it w/out the CS. We(H and I)didn't want xOM/MM involved further in our lives, and so he was never even told of the pregnancy(also he was very violent, and had threatened H's life infront of the neighbor) and most likely never will. But, I'm not saying that's what's best for you.

It sounds like you are mostly about the CS/contact, and we haven't heard a whole lot about your M. Don't forget, that's what this board is about, building/rebuilding marriages. I am not trying to make you feel guilty, or unwelcome, just that coming here to vent about the xMM/xMM's W is not the place to do it. But, coming here for advice as to how to impliment the principles of this site is the best thing you can do. I, personally, would concentrate on fixing the damage done to the M, and deal w/the xMM/xMM's W after you have that foundation of M repaired.

Sorry if this sounds harsh, but again, this particular part of the board WAS created for the BS dealing w/the OC, and should be respected as such.

Tigger

I am one of those OW that is bending over backwards to try to do the best for everyone that is involved.

After three years of this I have learned, Just do what you need to do for you and your family, Let om worry about the rest. It isnt your problem. Because while your bending over backwards to do what will make every one happy, Your screwing your self in the process and most likely your children, just to keep peace.
We have not gone to court, we have a verbal agreement, But my husband and I decide what ,when and where. Why? because we got tired of the games. They grow old after awhile. we dont deal with any one but om, His wife is not able to be mature about any thing and I see no point wasting my time any longer, and thats a shame because she is only hurting her self and making her husband resent her. But it will be her doing, not ours..

But in the begining I bent over backwards to work with both, You have no idea how much I gave in and tried to find workable solutions.

Tigger this board is for any one dealing with an oc situation while healing their marriage. and while some bs like and have the need to vent about oc/ow, she has a right to vent about the things effecting her marriage and that is om/ his wife and her children. That mm is the exact same to her and her marriage as the ow are to these marriages. He is no different. as I have been told before just dont assume it is refering to you, it is only about her situation, I think every one is mature enough to manage that now.
I dont think one mariage healing is better than another marriage healing, should all be the same goal, we just have different things to deal with. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Thanks momoffive for your reply. I don't think I could have said it better myself. That is the stresses and issues I am dealing with now. I guess I just wish I could hear from his W what she wants. I just don't really trust the OM/MM and don't want him playing both of us. If his W wants me to just deal with him then that is what I will continue to do.

Tigger thanks for your reply too, I have been working on restoring that for about 2 years now.
I said in a previous post that my husband pretty much knew I was pregnant before I told him. As for our marriage and our recovery we are doing well. That is why I don't talk about it much. I am very open about what is going on with the OM, if he calls, if I am going to take the babies to visit with him. We have 5 kids in our house, with the youngest being the twins. I don't get out of the house except once a week to go to the grocery store or something, so that probably really helps on the trust issue for my husband lol.
Going from our 3 kids to 5 kids was a tremendous adjustment for us. If it would have been one kid then maybe I would have tried to keep the OM out of it. But I couldn't afford to work anymore with 5 kids in daycare! We all couldn't fit in our Jeep anymore so we had to get into a different vehicle, I could go on and on what two additional kids has done to our household. Like I have said I know I got myself in this mess...but I had a partner. My H loves the twins as his own but he already takes all the OT he can get his hands on. I didn't want to take too much away from the three older kids...but it really still has. I am just trying to do my best. The OM only has one kid at home. He is college educated, has a real good job. I am sure his 400. a month isn't putting any kink in his lifestyle at all. But it will help us out.
That is why I asked where the TOW boards were. If I need to vent I kind of go off on a rant (see above lol) I don't want to step on anyones toes but I don't want to walk on egg shells while I am just trying to vent. I must admit when I vent it might not really be that bad, but maybe I just talked to OM and he was whining OR I am at home with five kids and just frustrated and need to vent on what ever!

4t&ns,

I understand how adding 2 to your already 3 would be cause for the need for extra money, and as noted below, I was saying that no CS/NC is best for us...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
we can afford it w/out the CS. We(H and I)didn't want xOM/MM involved further in our lives, and so he was never even told of the pregnancy(also he was very violent, and had threatened H's life infront of the neighbor) and most likely never will. But, I'm not saying that's what's best for you.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The reason I said this(below) is I have seen the BS be attacked, personally, for needing NC by the OW, and if you were to vent that the xMM's W is being unreasonable, psycho, etc.. I can see how that would affect the BW's on this board. Hence the last sentence below.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
I have always posted with the feelings of how would I react to this if I was the BS in this specific situation! Would saying it "this" way hurt someone who is dealing with the very real pain of an OC from an A? I would say that to actually "vent" about how xMM's W is behaving, that would cause some pain to the BW's on this board.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Thank you for answering this statement about your M, and how it's going. That is actually very helpful for how others can offer you advice.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
It sounds like you are mostly about the CS/contact, and we haven't heard a whole lot about your M. Don't forget, that's what this board is about, building/rebuilding marriages. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This statement is VERY true, as it was asked by many of the "oldies" who no longer or rarely post anymore can attest to. Yes, this whole site is about rebuilding/building a M, but if you notice, the majority of the posters here are the BW! In fact, I was one of the first WW's w/pregnancy/OC to post here(I think, but am not too sure, that Ohbratti1 was before me) and as I stated before, I was and am ALWAYS respectful of how my words would affect the BS's here. This board has definately changed, in there are many who don't feel safe to post anymore, and I feel that if you want to vent about the xMM, ok, but venting about his W is another story! Why? Because no matter how many times you say, "I'm not making a blanket statement" or whatever, it will still be taken as such! In fact, a little while back, someone had mentioned thinking it would be best to start yet another board so the BW's would feel safe to talk about their problems! I will always be on this board with the respect of the below statement! I truly believe a previous statement that I made, I believe, to Autumnday, that I am a guest here! As such, I will respect the reason for this board, and post as such. That doesn't mean I have to walk on eggshells, but I do need to watch what I say, especially if I was on a vent!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
this particular part of the board WAS created for the BS dealing w/the OC, and should be respected as such.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">mo5,
yes, this board is for anyone dealing w/OC while healing their M, but I only agree with one point, and that's the bold part here. Yes, the xMM is the same as the OW for the BW's here, but, the xMM's W is NOT! How many times does a BW complain about the OW's H? I have never seen it happen! That is why I say to RESPECT the BW's feelings here! I didn't say not to vent or rant, just to think how it would feel, especially for some who's pain is still so hard to deal with! There are many here that I don't reply to for the very reason of I could be looked at as the OW! I would hate to cause them more pain just by association of the "OW" status!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
Tigger this board is for any one dealing with an oc situation while healing their marriage. and while some bs like and have the need to vent about oc/ow, she has a right to vent about the things effecting her marriage and that is om/ his wife and her children. That mm is the exact same to her and her marriage as the ow are to these marriages. He is no different. as I have been told before just dont assume it is refering to you, it is only about her situation, I think every one is mature enough to manage that now. I dont think one mariage healing is better than another marriage healing, should all be the same goal, we just have different things to deal with.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Oh, and about the last sentence here, Yes it should all be the same goal, TO HEAL THE MARRIAGE! Yes, we have different things to deal with, but healing the M is the goal of this board!

unfortunately his wife does effect my mariage, when she makes unreasonable demands, when she is always late to pick up my child, or late to bring her home, when she makes negative comments in front of my child, these are all things that hurt my child and my marriage, it is a source of frustration to both my husband and my self and om.

when she gets mad because she called at the last min and we are gone, that is unreasonable. when she tracks me down while I am with my husband just to see where I am, that is unreasonable, when she gets mad because I am going to a wedding and she didnt know. [not one she was invited to or even knows the person marrying. And why does she need to know what I am doing and such, she has to know what I am wearing, what brand I bought and where did I find it, it is creepy and frankly makes me sick.
She is nuts and frankly do not like dealing with her, and I prefer to leave it that way.

some of us deal with a crazy ow and some deal with a crazy betrayed spouse. Does she complain about my husband.. Yes she does, because my husband makes decisions now about daughter, after all why shouldnt he, he was there from day one, She complains when he says no d can not do that. But he is with in his right to do so, after all if they wanted more rights, her husband could go to court, although I dont think they would do much better there.
ON the bright side, those fixing there marriage, it can be done, my husband and my self are doing better than we have in almost 20 years, Its all good <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> So keep up the work and try to always include your husband in decisions, mine didnt want to be included at first, but he is more involved now.

"That is why I asked where the TOW boards were."

I responded to your question....and posted a reply to the name of the web site. However it appears to have been deleted.

Whats up with that?
Somebody comes here, wanting information to ascertain what site can lead to the best information that pertains to their situation, and my response is deleted, with no explanation or written reason whatsoever.

At any rate, this will be my last post, I won't bother in the future, even if I have the information that will help another.

Good luck with your situation...but I guess the possibility exists that this post will be deleted too before you see it.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by isitmeorhim:
<strong>"That is why I asked where the TOW boards were."

I responded to your question....and posted a reply to the name of the web site. However it appears to have been deleted.

Whats up with that?
Somebody comes here, wanting information to ascertain what site can lead to the best information that pertains to their situation, and my response is deleted, with no explanation or written reason whatsoever.

At any rate, this will be my last post, I won't bother in the future, even if I have the information that will help another.

Good luck with your situation...but I guess the possibility exists that this post will be deleted too before you see it.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Looks like you may not have clicked on "Add Reply". Seems as if the reply you are referring to was never actually posted (under this thread anyway.)

<small>[ June 24, 2003, 12:37 PM: Message edited by: Chris -CA123 ]</small>

It's a shame that we only try to figure out what is best for everyone involved after the affair occurs and results in an OC.

Unfortunately, it's too late to be thinking of what is best...

What's is best is not to have an affair in the first place.

Now we are stuck with MAKING the best, not what IS best...

Good luck! Your situation is very complicated. Two OC's to deal with all in one shot. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

I think instead of trying to understand the BS, just work on your own marriage. You probably should just go to court and get it all official and break off contact so xMM can work on healing his own marriage.

When your OCs are old enough, if they see any value in contacting their bio father, leave it up to them.

My guess is that they won't miss what they didn't have--something that wasn't theirs to begin with. Mine didn't. My OC is now 20 and continues living his life with no contact. His choice.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by isitmeorhim:
<strong>"That is why I asked where the TOW boards were."

I responded to your question....and posted a reply to the name of the web site. However it appears to have been deleted.

Whats up with that?
Somebody comes here, wanting information to ascertain what site can lead to the best information that pertains to their situation, and my response is deleted, with no explanation or written reason whatsoever.

At any rate, this will be my last post, I won't bother in the future, even if I have the information that will help another.

Good luck with your situation...but I guess the possibility exists that this post will be deleted too before you see it.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Please don't feel that this post is going to be deleted. I am pretty positive that the other post was deleted because we are not supposed to post other board's web addresses here. It has caused MANY problems in the past! That is why that post was deleted.

Chris,

>Looks like you may not have clicked on "Add Reply". Seems as if the reply you are referring to was never actually posted (under this thread anyway.)

No offense, but I do remember a very short reply on this thread that gave the url for the other site. I'm an OC who reads at both sites (I'm chudP over there), and I was watching on the other site to see if the person who initiated this thread (4----) would say something over there. I obvioulsy couldn't tell you for certain if it was "isitmeorhim" who posted the link, but it *was* here at one time.

chudP/friendofk (k is not the "K" who posts here ... I was referring to a personal friend for whom I once collected some MB info for).

chud (OW no, BW no, OC yes)