Maybe I need to post this on GQ, but this is kind of home base for me so I'll start here.

First let me say that although we have been through some weird moments and aggravating experiences this month, it does seem that my husband is doing better. One fact of that is his cell phone bill. It shows quite a few incoming calls from someone, but there are twice as many minutes to or from me. Still some screwy actions and some obvious hiding, but less than last month. So I guess that's a plus.

Also since he returned from the "sandbox", he has been stationed on base quite a way from home. He has asked me if I will move to the base where he is stationed. I told him I felt uncomfortable doing that since we don't know how long this deployment will last, but I thought it was nice that he missed us too. And I'm gonna check out the feasibility of his request because I think we will do better if we are together.

Anyway, here's my MB question. As you know I have a lot of suspicions about his behavior. He is a serial cheater and a flirt. He flirts including buidling himself up to more than he is without even trying and he continues a relationship with someone when they give him the admiration that he is desperate for. I understand, but it drives me nuts. See, I know that I am implying that I do not meet his ENs. I really try though. I tell him honestly what I see and the good things I feel often. But you know what, I live with this guy in the real world not the world that he makes up for others. I know he is awful with money. I know he rarely lifts a finger to help me do stuff. I know he is irresponsible and selfish. It drives me nuts that he will talk to me if he wants to talk, but as soon as I want to then he is tired or sick or has to go to work. How frustrating. I also know that many of the things he tells to other people are false. He did not hang the moon like he'll try to make you believe. He is not even into real sex like he'd have you believe. He loves the fantasy sex, but when I ask or become the flirting seductress I get turned down almost every time. He rarely even asks about the kids, but is happy to accuse me of hating them if I say I'd like to have a break (like a few hours a week). He isn't meeting my ENs. I tell him that I'm angry he spent the $100 I was saving for a new washer on loterry tickets. I blow up sometimes since it (or something) happens all the time, but for the most part I just want to help him behave more responsibly. I know and deal with all this crap, but I love him anyway. And it seems to me that it would be more exciting to have someone love you anyway for who you really are in spite of some problems than to go and make up stuff and have people enjoy a lie. But what do I know!!

So, here's my dilemma. Since my husband is practically in a fog thinking he can flirt with whomever and whenever as long as I don't have proof, do I just play happy all the time. It seems like that would better give him what he needs, but that's just not reality. In the real world that he creates for us, I just have no idea how to build him up so much that he doesn't need other exciting females.

And true it's not just females. It's like a high for him to spend money on junk or go to the races or whatever. He'll start a fire so he can put it out and be the hero who saved the day. He seems to need something extra exciting constantly and if it's not there (and sometimes when it is) he creates a new fantasyland. My man needs a constant high and I don't know how to provide it. Talking doesn't help; he won't admit these things even to himself. In a MB sense, do you think I should lay it on thick for him and make him my knight and forget my needs and ignore when he does stupid things or when I have suspicions?? I am wondering if he gets his needs super met for a bit, then maybe he would wake up enough to be more mature and realize that he has someone who loves him very much and is willing to help him work through his money managing problems, etc. I don't think MB advocates me being a doormat, but how do I slap some sense into him??? I don't know that I've ever done a really good Plan A cause I get so darned frustrated with the continuing craziness. But is what he wants Plan A??

Oh, and I'm just sure that Plan B would not work for him in that he usually believes that bad things will happen to him. He would not fight or change to come back to me. He would not believe he could. Oh and did you notice that this has nothing to do with the kids...nothing. But as soon as I even allude to being unhappy, he says it's the kids. Uhhhh... no.

Oh, and btw, I am VERY thankful that their bio-mother has abandoned them. Their life will be so much less complicated and better because of it. I hope it continues and if not, I hope she is at least someone who will be good for them. The way she was, life would have been so very different and I believe worse if she had contact with them whether they were with her or us. Abandoning the children with us was the best thing for the 2oc, not the best thing for this marriage, but definitely best for them. And when they are old enough to understand, I plan to let them know that their mother allowed them to grow up in a more stable environment and that she did what she thought was right. Now maybe she just thought life was a lot more fun without toddlers, but regardless it was good for them and we won't talk bad about her. I'll put a positive spin on it anyway.

No aimee, we don't do MB stuff over here... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">In a MB sense, do you think I should lay it on thick for him and make him my knight and forget my needs and ignore when he does stupid things or when I have suspicions??</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Gosh, this must not be in the MB manual I have. You're asking if you should give unconditionally and lie to him. The answer would be "NO".

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am wondering if he gets his needs super met for a bit, then maybe he would wake up enough to be more mature and realize that he has someone who loves him very much and is willing to help him work through his money managing problems, etc.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I try this with my kids. They always want candy and toys, so I just buy them a ton---and then they won't want any more. Right? Nope. You're creating an unsustainable situation. Very bad idea. MB 101 says (even in Plan A), you only commit to changing your behaviors in areas where you will be consistent, for the rest of your life.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I don't think MB advocates me being a doormat, but how do I slap some sense into him???</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Nope, we don't like doormats in MB (other than on the front porch). And unfortunately, you can't slap sense into him (a LB that never works---they only get the slap part, and never the sense). You need to use the rules---Care, Protection, Honesty (a big one), and Time to see if he will slap some sense into himself. If he can't, then your options are really limited to a Plan B separation.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I don't know that I've ever done a really good Plan A cause I get so darned frustrated with the continuing craziness. But is what he wants Plan A??</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Remember that Plan A is for a limited time. You want to change your behaviors and negotiate a spouse from an affair. It can also be used to draw a withdrawn spouse back into a marriage.

I would suggest that you start working the honesty angle---without lovebusters. Bring up some of these concerns, and ask your husband for suggestions on how to solve them. If his suggestions suck, make some of your own. Use the good negotiation tools to do this (read Give and Take if you haven't), and use the POJA to come to agreement. You're going to have some challenges with an chronic-lying adreneline junkie, but you should be able to make some progress. And I see some of the same good signs that you do---so don't spin this as all negative on your husband.

Is your H open to counseling? Would he be open to counseling with Dr.Harley on the telephone?

Is your mind made up to fight for your marriage? Have you ever asked your H why HE married YOU in the first place or why HE stays? His answer might be worth it, if you can get him to be honest...

Have you got yourself tested for STDs? You never know?

It sounds like you are trying to do your best and to me, that's the best you can do. It takes two tho and it doesn't sound like your H has truly committed himself to be 100% in your marriage.

If you are committed, then that's half the battle. I don't know how to get the spouse on the same page if they refuse?

So I take it that the money you saved that he spent on lottery tickets was totally blown? And he couldn't understand your anger?

Would he ever agree to individual counseling? Sounds like his need for the big rush is beyond immaturity. Hmmm...

How are you doing? Are you okay???

NLW:

From your first post...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">By starting this kind of post you are contributing to the board being as it is today. Combative.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">And you would be making the board non-combative by those comments in your second post???

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

(Couldn't help myself---and welcome to the boards).

NLW,

I believe that's uncalled for. I know that sometimes a post can get lost when things like what happened this week happen.

Now, for Aimee, I believe that you got some awsome advice from K and BTDT. I, honestly, read your thread, and was at a loss as to what to advise. I think K hit it pretty good with Plan A and to watch out for LB's. You have been through so much, and to have the 2 OC for such a short time before your H was called to duty had to have been tremendously difficult. Then, to have your leg broken all at the same time! I would maybe look into having the military move you and the kids nearer to your H. If his time there is going to be more than 6 months, they will usually pay for it. Also, you could look into furnished apartments as well, if you plan to move back to the area you are in now. You could put your stuff into storage there. Just some suggestions. Keep us updated!

Tigger

Dear aimee2,
I'm not a psychiatrist, but your H is displaying many signs of adult A.D.D.

Perhaps you can search and read the test and see.

After that, I can see your needing "time off". All Moms' need a break.

Tigger4jdt made a great suggestion in asking if you can be moved.

K, with his usual MB knowledge, let you know about plan A and the LB'S.

All are good suggestions. I hope one at a time they start to work in your favor.
Sometimes talking honestly without yelling, may improve the situation.

aimee2 if it all continues to fall on deaf ears, I would consider plan B before you lose all respect or love for your H. He can't keep doing things to you if you don't let him. Maybe after everything else, you will have to try plan B.

Prayers of peace and a speedy recovery, also some time alone to do whatever you feel like.
XXX
Debi

No_Longer_Wayward,

"I'm just learning and taking notes."

Your post was deleted. To help your learning process, prior to posting, please review the MarriageBuilders Policy you agreed to when you registered, the General Welcome for New Builders and reread the note from the administrators at the top of this forum.

And hopefully your third post will be of a supportive nature and less antagonistic. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Nice going Justuss---now it looks like I'm sitting around talking to my imaginary friend...

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Nope K,,it was NOT an imaginary friend! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> I can vouch for that.

Just doing my darnest to help the wonderful STRONG members of this forum feel this is STILL their safe SUPPORTIVE haven.

And VERY appreciative of YOUR help, and the help of many others!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

<small>[ July 11, 2003, 04:11 PM: Message edited by: Justuss ]</small>

aimee2,
If I didn't know better in reading your description of your husband's behaviors around women, sex and flirting, I would swear that I was reading about an alcoholic or substance abuser. IMHO your husband has an "addiction". His "rush" comes from flirting and fantasy. Just like an alcoholic when there's never enough alcohol, there will never be enough ENs met from you, because you're not the problem. It would be like thinking that if I just gave my alcoholic spouse all the alcohol he wanted, whenever he wanted it, than our problems would be solved. Not!! Your wandering spouse needs to get help for his addiction before you have any relationship to work on. Right now, his primary relationship is with his addiction. No room for you and the kids. Others may disagree, but that's been my experience with an ex-WS. Good luck!