I'm not sure about any laws in England, but I know here in the states there HAS to be a thrid party to witness the swab. Tojo you said that she had cvs and they did the dna that way. I know the labs I've called and looked up on the net have all stated that a thrid party had to witness my swab as well as the father's swab. Unless a witness was present (doctor nurse lab person) it's not worth anything in a court of law. There are home test out now but there still has to be a witness. The courts are very firm on this. In fact only a hand full of states by what I was told will even consider the home test even though there still has to be a thrid witness. Was your h there when the cvs was done? She had a witness there. The doctor who did the cvs. Did your h have his swab or blood done in a lab? That would be his witness. It is serious and the courts won't play games. Also I was told by a lab that some states won't recognize the cvs or amino because they consider a fetus a baby until it's born. YOU do however have rights to see and be a part of that child's life being married to your h. Without hassels as well. Good luck and keep us posted.

TOJO

Let me get this straight, the OW would only let your H see the OC in her home and expected him to stay there for 10 hrs?? I'm sorry but this is coming from a BS/OW that is wrong. The OW must be delusional. There is no way that he should be forced to stay there in order to see the child. And you being his wife have every right to accompany him and be part of the childs life unless she can prove with out a doubt that you are a danger to the child. Which I highly doubt.

I'm starting to understand why so many BS think that the OW is so evil in these situations. So many OW try to use the kids to control the XMM. It is just so wrong.

Hi thank you for all your replies and questions, I will try to answer them as I go:

M:-

Yes H is stupid (in my eyes) for giving her money before DNA test positive but he see it as trying to help her and see that if he can help her alot more if she makes things easy for him and OC re contact and bad mouthing. A previous swab of H DNA was given three years ago when she thought her first child was H. (the A has been going on for 7 years, even whilst she was marrried. Now OW divorced but not due to this). The DNA from this previous swab was apparently used. However I came across some files while I was doing A research and saw H gave DNA in NY when we were there last. Perhaps that was sent and used with the CVS results?

I hope she is lying and it is not his.

Thanks for the point of cases and assests gained I will speak to my solicitor. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

OW is worried about money. SHe is just managing and that is because H is sending her some. Ibelieve he will continue to help her even if oc is not his. I'll cross that bridge if and when he comes to it. I will demand NC and no money.

If H does not want to give her money then he will go through courts with good lawyers even if she does make him accountable when it is not his. He will probably offer her a one off payment and that's it if her plans work in this area.

Is it normal to go from being so sad and crying to frustration and anger in just a few minutes?

Needtomoveon:-

I guess third parties were there for all concerned, certainly OW doctor. Last week the nurse/doctor taking DNA from H,OC,OW would have been the third party surely?

With regards to some courts not believing DNA from CVS, my H was of the same mind frame and wanted DNA taken from everyone when he was there and witnessing it. Can they mix up DNA results?

Is it weird for you to give adive to the BS when you were the OW? I do not mean to be rude and apoligis if you have taken offence to this question but I am just curious whether it has changed your perception of BS and OW in general.

Crazymum:-

Hi

Yes OW wanted H to be at her place. Used the excuse of other kids and all stuff being there and no one to cover/babysit whilst they talk. Poor excuse but one H went for. Did he feel forced? No I don't think so. If he really did not want to go to her place then he wouldn't. In some ways I guess I feel that my considerations are not important. Even though he says he has taken my demands into consideration and followed all but two - going to her place and having lunch. One thing in his favour he didn't stay as long as she wanted. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I am not a danger to the child but when I dropped him near to her place, she went mad and said to H that I would kidnap OC. Thanks but no thanks.

How do I get H to see what she is up to and that it is OK for him to take OC away from her for a few hours alone? He doesn't want to upset her too much in case she gets bad and denies all contact. OK we are speaking to an attorney soon over there regarding rights and access but H would rather have an amenable relationship with OW because of OC as he believes at end of day if there is animosity between parents then child suffers. He wants to avoid this.

He would be the same if I left, he would be very co-operative with me so he could have easy access to kids. Its just his threats of making it difficult for me that I worry even though I have nothing to worry about.

Crazymum you state you have been BS and OW?? Also that BS many times. I have since found out that H has had many A some running parallel. I get so angry, and think my life with him was just all lies. Does this pass? Can we get through this and build up trust again? He says the A are all over but how can I believe him?

Sometimes I look at how I am when he is not around and away on business and I find myself more relaxed and happier, not so stressed and happy. Does this mean that I would be happier alone with kids and dogs? It makes me wonder. i try and be happy go lucky so that he sees I am fun and wants to be around me but it is so hard when I am in so much pain and feeling so much frustration and anger. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

Sorry to get carried away there! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> and for the long post.

Thanks for the prayers and thoughts. You are all a God send, bless you. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Hugs

Jo

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Crazymum you state you have been BS and OW?? Also that BS many times. I have since found out that H has had many A some running parallel. I get so angry, and think my life with him was just all lies. Does this pass? Can we get through this and build up trust again? He says the A are all over but how can I believe him?

Sometimes I look at how I am when he is not around and away on business and I find myself more relaxed and happier, not so stressed and happy. Does this mean that I would be happier alone with kids and dogs? It makes me wonder. i try and be happy go lucky so that he sees I am fun and wants to be around me but it is so hard when I am in so much pain and feeling so much frustration and anger </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">TOJO,

Unfortuantly yes, i was/am a BW for many years. Then for some stupid reason I became a OW with a married co-worker. Nothing I say can justify what I did. And to make it worse I had two kids with the MM. Right now I have a feeling my H is having yet another A. But oh well.

I know how you feel when you say your happier when the H is not around. Things go so much more smoothly when my H is gone. Its like when he is around you can cut the tesion in the room with the knife. Its the same for the kids. They feel they have to walk on egg shells with him. Not a way to live, but I guess I have this crazy dream of someday him growing up..

As for the situation with the OW, maybe she has yet to let go of the fact that your H didn't pick her. I would definitly go for court ordered visits. Amicable visits are nice, but what's gonna happen when she gets pissed? As for having him come to her house to visit, there are nuetral grounds. When visits first started with XMM and his W, we meet at a park. If the weather doesn't permit then there are other places to go with kids. No need for it to be in the house without you present. She needs to get over the fact of him being with you and act like an adult in this situation. Good luck to you.

Is it weird for you to give adive to the BS when you were the OW? I do not mean to be rude and apoligis if you have taken offence to this question but I am just curious whether it has changed your perception of BS and OW in general.

NO it's not weird. I think I take myself out of it. Ya know what I mean?
I know what I did was wrong. I knew when I was doing it that it was wrong. I guess as a lame excuse but my only one it happend and we were both going through something and latched on to each other. I don't think anyone no matter who you are should be raked over. Fair is fair and that is it. I do have enough logic to know right from wrong and what happens in between. I've opened my eyes up a lot over the past few months and can't even believe that I had put myself in the position I had put myself in. Don't get me wrong......I was very very hurt. I was very bitter over this (maybe still a little), but I know what's what. I've always been the type of person who can look back and see something and know when someone is being treated wrong or not. Maybe it's the libra in me I don't know. I actually feel very bad for my xmm w cause she is going to be totally blindsided with all this. When she puts two and two together about when her h started leaning on her and such she is going to realize it's when I became pregnant and she is going to feel used. I don't like her......but no one deserves that. She totally does not have it coming at all. I have felt used by xmm and it is a awful feeling. I just pray that xmm comes to his senses soon and fesses up to her before it could be to late to save his marriage is that is what he wants. I know he's not going to be in my life that is not what I'm saying. I also don't feel it's my place to confront the situation with her or him. It's his cross to bear.
Your uh sounds like a very generous man. Wow 7 years. I thought my 13 month a was way toooooooo long. I don't really look at bw in a way or the ow in a way. I think without the titles that everyone is a person and has a story. Don't we all? In one way or another? I'm sure if I was with your husband it would be to weird though for me to give you advise <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" />
I hope it helps you though. Keep us posted.

Hi and thanks again!

OH is coming back tonight from business trip away. Kind of looking forward to it, and kind of not!

If he knows the results of the DNA test he is not yet telling me but the results should be anyday now. I'll keep you posted.

Yes he is generous - when there is something in it for him, otherwise he can be very selfish and self-centered. I'd like to say typical male but this is not the case as mb boards show!

Does anyone know of a counsellor in England london who follows the MB principles? H is not comfortable with my therapist and drags his feet on going.

Thanks again for everything to everyone. It is nice to know and is not so lonely when you know peope are out there having been in or are in the same situation.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Hugs

Jo

Hi Tojo,

To be honest I have no idea about any therapists in the London area much less if they are MB base....I am in Kent. But if I can make a suggestion maybe discuss your issue with Steve. Even with having to pay for the sessions and the long distance phone call it would be a) well worth it for you and your Partner and b) the costs will not be that awful. Currently (2 October 2003) the exchange rate is 1GBP = 1.63USD and I know a lot of phone cards out there where calls to the states are .2p a minute also OnTel is cheaper than BT. If you decide to find a therapist via National Health might I suggest you spend the first session really interviewing them and make sure they are at least pro-marriage.

I know what you are going through and I feel awful for you.

Lynng,
Did you not read where paternity was already established? They chose to have a second test done now that the child is born.
Calm down, your anger masks any good logic that you actually have. You present like a fish out of water.

Hi all

Well now paternity is definatley established as previously thought but hoping parying was not the case. 99.9996% chance of being the father.

How do I feel?

Anger, pain, frustration, wanting out, can't deal, wanting to stay . . the list is endless and all confusing!
When he got back last night from his business trip he kept asking me what was wrong told me I seemed cold and distant. I admit I was but that was b/c I didn't know if I really wanted him to be home.

Today I am still in mixed emotions.

I will talk to H about Steve, hopefully he will be more amenable to him than my therapist. Thanks for the tip! What is the number though is my next question? It kind of helps.

H is talking about how he would like our lifestyle to change - him be with me and the kids more, have fun together, not so much traveling on his own, and somehow if possible intergrate OC a little.

It all sounds great and I'd like to have the journey with him but OW and my thoughts of her and OC are stop me from joining him.

He told me he hasn't spoken to OW for a while yet in my A research I found he spoke to her two days ago!?! This makes me wonder even more what to believe.

Do I confront him with his lie or let it go until another time?

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Thanks for listening and being there

Life sucks at times! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

hugs

Jo

ToJO:
You are one smart women. One day (hopefully not) I may have to get some pointers from you. If it were me, I'd confront....but I'm known to be way to upfront with everything.....like you have notice <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />
I think you should think about what you really want go forward. Your uh sounds like he really wants to work on it, and that means honesty right? Good luck and I'm sorry for all the emotions

I agree. Honesty is the first part in rebuilding trust.

ember

tojo,,,,,, i have to concur on the confronting him with your new information. let him know that you will not be a party to someone that continueally lies to you.

the only thing keeping it to yourself does is eat at your insides knowing that he still is lieing to tou and wondering what else he is lieing about.

tojo,

Well, now that paternity has been definitely established, although the results weren't what your were praying for, you can at least start to make plans for the future. I think the not knowing, the waiting, the hoping and praying is so hard. Not that actually "knowing" is easy but it least you can start charting a course with the facts in hand.

All the conflicting emotions you mentioned are completely normal. The EMR is not the only rollercoater ride. Recovery (whether it be marital or personal) is full of dips and twists too. Two steps forward and one back. And just when you think you're on the smooth road, something will happen to make you want to throw your hands up in despair.

Which is why counseling is so important at this point. YOU need to be able to talk to your H and express your feelings, your thoughts and your fears. Check the counseling link at the top of this page or here Counseling Center for MB counseling with Steve Harley. I have heard wonderful things about their counseling service. The fact that your H wants to discuss future plans with you about a new lifestyle sounds promising BUT he has to understand that NOTHING will be possible without TOTAL honesty. I would confront him with the lie about the contact with the OW. NOT attack, not LB, not condemning,,just letting him know that I was aware of the contact and was hoping he could have been honest. Without honesty, there is no future together.

Tojo, don't expect too much from yourself right now. This is very hard and very stressful. Take care and be good to yourself. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Hi all

Thanks for your words

In tears right now, feeling lost. We are arguing. It feels so easy to walk away....I do wonder... <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Be back when I feel more constructive.

Thanks again

Jo