I did not ever want to be on this particular forum, everytime I looked at it since my H's affair started I cringed a little, but now here I am.

I found out that the OW is pregnant, they have been together a whole two months, and according to him they hardly ever slept together, and used condoms when they did. He has of course also looked me right in the eye many times and lied through his teeth on several occasions (and usually later on would contradict his lie) so really I don't know what is going on with their affair.

The thing is, since D-day, he has been pretty unwavering in wanting to end our marriage. Now of course even more so, I mean won't a woman with 4 children by 4 different men that dates married men and neglects her children be a fabulous mother for his child? I would be willing to raise the child as ours, but of course he won't hear of that, and he needs to put his OW's feelings first in any case.

I apologize for my sarcastic tone, but this really hits a nerve with me. We've been married for 5 years, and one of the main reasons I wanted to get married was to have a family. It was never the "right time" and eventually he just didn't want children. But in the course of a two month affair he gives his OW one.

I guess my point is, and my question is, should I even bother? I love him, and I know without a doubt that we would be able to give that child a more stable and nurturing home then his OW or him alone, or them together. That of course falls on deaf ears, whats worse is I would be doing it for the sake of his child, this is by no means where I wanted or expected my life to lead.

I just would really like some honest opinions. We are both 29. We've been married 5 years and have no children. This affair has been going on for 2 months (so he says). He is absolutely unwavering in his desire to end the marriage, and I've been planning on moving home to CA in late Dec. When I heard about this last night I thought it was pretty much a lost cause, and that's what I'm still inclined to think. However after speaking to a few people this morning I just have to ask if anyone sees any hope at all.

I don't want to end the marriage btw, I still love him, and would welcome that child into our lives, it's about him being completely inflexible about our marriage, and I feel everytime I do anything to try he slams a door in my face, I would think that THIS if anything would break through his fog, but it either hasn't or this is how he truly feels.

Sio,

I wrote you a very nice (long) reply last night that got eaten by the "not logged in" monster that lurks on this board occasionally... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

Briefly: you should try to get in counseling with either one of the Harleys (Steve or Jenn---appointments at 888-639-1639), or with "cerri" (Penny, SaveYourMarriageCentral, a trained MB counselor). The child is a complication that you might not want to deal with---you have no children of your own, and child support will be an issue that you'll have to deal with should you remain married. However, if you are in love and still want to give this a shot---it's far from hopeless. It just seems hopeless to you. Your spouse is acting just like millions of other spouses act when they're having affairs. You need a plan that will help you increase the chances of saving and improving your marriage.

I ask you why you think your husband has had an affair? If you can objectively look at your marriage---was it in a poor state prior to this affair, and how responsible were you for this? This isn't to blame you for the marriage---but rather to assess whether a Plan A attempt is the right approach for you. The MB system for ending an affair usually implements Plan A first: that is, a change in your marital behaviors centered around eliminating lovebusters and (perhaps) meeting unmet emotional needs in an attempt to negotiate your spouse out of the affair. If you think there are areas that you could work on that would have an impact---this is a great place to start. I will tell you that I spent 6 months in Plan A while my wife had an affair---it was difficult, and while I thought I was doing a good job with the program, I felt like I was having no effect at all. It was only after the affair ended (after Plan B), that my wife told me that a major reason she came back to the marriage was because of those efforts.

On the other hand, if you feel you've been the perfect (or darn good) spouse (as viewed through your husband's eyes), then a short period of Plan A is probably the best idea, followed by a transition to Plan B---a no contact separation. This is initiated by a Plan B letter stating your love for your spouse, the desire to work on the marriage, an illustration of some of the Plan A stuff you've done to address your shortcomings (if applicable), a request for no contact until the affair is over (due to the loss of love contact inflicts on you while he's cheating), and then a reaffirmation of your desire to forge a new marriage where you both are happy.

As far as you having the child and raising it as your own, I think that very unlikely unless the OW is willing to just "give it up". The best you would hope for here is co-parenting (or no contact---depending on your desires as a couple).

Get a pro involved, and soon...

Thanks for the reply <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I've been in Plan A since I found out about all this since last month, and I will be moving to Plan B on Thanksgiving weekend. I wish I could go now but it's simply not feasible.

The marriage before this started wasn't the greatest. We are more "best friends" then romantic and the last year apparently he has been very unhappy (nice to find that out after he already decides to end the marriage and starts an affair). In any case though, after tonight It's pretty much time for me to go whether my Plan A was long enough or not.

His OW called me tonight and threatened me with violence, and pretty much confirmed what sort of person she is. I have no doubt that she will wreck her relationship with my husband but in the meantime I just need to go and get my life going and if sometime in the future he wants a second chance he may get one but I won't be leaving with the idea of that, simply of getting my life fully under my own control again. I have no doubt he will file for divorce as soon as possible so he can marry her and "do the right thing" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> .

I still love him, I still think if given the chance we'd be able to save the marriage and make it better then ever. But, I'm pretty much done trying and if he wants another chance in the future it will be entirely on him.

I HAVE to go though, this woman sounds like a complete psychopath and I really don't want to end up getting shot or something. I know I can get a restraining order but what good would that really do? if she wants to she'll still harm me, the only difference will be that she'll have to deal with the legal reprecussions of breaking the restraining order along with murder or assault charges.

Sio,

I guess that the first thing I'd encourage you to do is to get out by the end of the month---being in a situation where you're fearing for your safety isn't a good idea.

Was your Plan A long enough? Hard to tell. The marriage was lacking romance, and that's impossible (almost) to restore while there's an affair going on (those emotional needs are being met by the OW). If there was no lovebusting going on, then I think you're in decent shape.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">but in the meantime I just need to go and get my life going and if sometime in the future he wants a second chance he may get one but I won't be leaving with the idea of that... I still love him, I still think if given the chance we'd be able to save the marriage and make it better then ever. But, I'm pretty much done trying and if he wants another chance in the future it will be entirely on him.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I take issue with this approach. It's the approach of losers. You really need to take a firm Plan B approach---leave on your terms, and let him know that you WILL NOT be "getting on with your life" (with regards to dating). That you do not want a divorce, and when his affair is done he is welcome to come back to the marriage. And not to scare you, but Plan A and B are much easier than recovery---so you will have work to do.

Getting away is a good thing. But waiting in a Plan B approach is not only good for your marriage, it's good for you. If you have love left for him, you probably will not be in emotional shape to attempt another relationship (dating) for 2 years. To pass that time, protect yourself and your marriage (and calll a pro to help you with the details). I've seen way too many episodes here where the BS was hopeless, left, started dating, and THEN had the WS return---it will force you to deal with your own "illict" relationship.

Now---I know that you haven't actually mentioned dating, so just take the above as K's Public Service Announcement. But Plan B is where you should be, so get yourself ready for it. Look over some Plan B letters on this site for inspiration.

What do you make of this? He says I'm his best friend, we are best friends, even in the middle of this crises. And he wants to continue being best friends. Granted there has been a lot of stress involved, and the occasional argument, we've still be able to maintain that friendship through this. Is that normal? I guess there is no "normal" really but it just seems like our relationship is a little on the odd side in comparison to what I've been reading on these boards. I realize that that it may come off as a typical cake eating scenario, and it may be, but he's saying this in terms of years from now, after he's married to his OW (yeah I'm sure she'd go for that but thats not the point hehe) and I've gotten on with my life. Anyway, that's just been a huge source of confusion for me since all this started.

Anyway, to address what you said about the plan B thing. You're right <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> and thank you for kind of smacking me in the head about that heh. I just don't think I've ever felt less wanted, and it would be sooo easy to just go meet someone else if for no other reason then to make myself feel a little better. I realize though that that would be terribly unfair to that other person and would also pretty much kill any chance at reconciliation if the opportunity arises. I do love my husband, and I kind of suspect I always will on some level regardless of what happens, even if we never speak again. I will be wearing my wedding rings till my divorce papers come, unfortunately though I think he will be filing as soon as he can <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> . It's also just been so hard because he's been so unwavering in wanting to end the marriage.

As I think back to that phone conversation with his OW, I realize I missed a few things that may be important clues. That woman kept repeating over and over that in one form or the other that he's her's now. She also sounded almost manic. She also lied a few times, Saying he's going to be "daddy" to all her kids...I informed her he doesn't really like kids (although I'm sure he'll love his own) and she just flipped telling me that my husband and her 4 kids get along great and he loves them! Well, I asked him about that and he told me he's met them once and his reaction was fairly typical of him...They're kids, his feelings towards children ranges from indifferent to annoyed.

I know that he right now wants to be with her, but for some reason she seems to feel very threatened and very insecure. I'm not sure why, obviously I don't know what goes on between them. I do know she is already having a difficult pregnancy, and while I wish no harm on that child I have little doubt if she miscarries they will split up, and even if she doesn't I know my husband is already thinking of the possiblity of single parenthood, and he told me she is too...so who knows. Two months into a relationship with a child on the way they are already having major problems.

I know that he has feelings for her, and wants to be with her. But at the same time he seems to be giving her mixed signals (the fact that we are still close friends and he calls me from work quite often probably doesn't help matters <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> ). I also think that once I'm gone and they try to be a "family" the reality of raising four other men's children will hit him like a ton of bricks...and then there are the numerous annoying habits he has that she isn't even aware of...Even if I were completely out of the picture I think it would probably fall apart within six months, and if she miscarries pretty much immediately. She is VERY angry that I'm still here, and that he's doing things to help me out, and that we're still living together.

Sio,

I'm going to start out my reply by referring to a couple of lines in cerri's signature:

Primary Rules for Infidelity
First rule of what to know when your spouse is having an affair:
Your emotions and your instincts will lead you in the wrong direction 99.9% of the time.

First rule of what to do when your spouse is having an affair:
Ignore almost all of what they say they want from you, how they feel about what you are doing to fix the marriage and any talk about the marriage, "being over, get over it."

Now, I think you're doing pretty well on "not following your instincts", and acting in a way that should help to save your marriage. I'm always happy to slap a little sense into folks around here---I still have the handprints from Steve Harley's intensive counseling myself... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

The second part of cerri's quote is the one I want you to focus on. You know that this affair is not sustainable. In fact, it would do good for your husband to leave you and join his "solemate" for a while, just to get a taste of fantasy-land full time. The affair relationship is bound to fail. You know it. I know it. Harley knows it. Very few survive, and this isn't one of them. I do remember thinking that maybe my wife was really "in love", and it would be better to let her go. Steve smacked that out of me---so I'll do the same for you here. You have plenty of hope.

Your husband is acting according to the Wayward Spouses Guide to Stupidity (vol 1) script is telling him to act. He still has obvious feelings for you (the best friends). He's going to find that the his new "girlfiend" won't live up to this. He's going to need to do that on his own (apparently), and you're not going to be able to educate him out of making these stupid mistakes for himself. When you transition to Plan B, you want to leave him with these impressions:

1. You still love him
2. You are committed to making the marriage work
3. The separation isn't for punishment, but to protect your love for him
4. You want him back when the affair is over, and you are committed to getting passion into your marriage when he returns

All good stuff. You need to be firm on the no-contact---but if you're moving, that'll help. You can have him contact you through an intermediary (who won't beat up on him).

I would be pretty upbeat about your situation, overall. I do think the separation is necessary and good for you---but I bet the affair will not last. My guess is that he won't make it to her delivery---and if he does, the first six months of caring for an infant in a less-than-committed relationship can be pure hell.

(And I still advise you to talk to a professional, rather than one who has been beaten up by them... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> )

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Your husband is acting according to the Wayward Spouses Guide to Stupidity (vol 1) script is telling him to act. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I KNEW there was a script! That's the one thing that just absolutely amazes me about this site, just seeing the same stupid things WS's all say and do over and over and over again.

Thank you very much for your responses and insights, I very much appreciate them <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />