It has only been 2 weeks that my WH has been in NC with OW . He of course has been going through major withdrawals ,stating he wants to really try to work on our M but he just doesn't know if he can stick to this plan ,because He misses her and feels like he has to pretend she is dead.Went to MC last night and talked for a long time after, came to the decision that we both wanted to work on M.Today everything came crashing in again.OW called H to say she is pregnant.OW will be 19 in dec.was a former employee of ours ,knows our children ages 16,15,12.Now my H says he doesn't want to feel forced ,he didn't get the chance to try with us. I don't know where this is heading I am still in shock. I don't know where I want to be ,how can it work to recover a M with this added to it. I am so confused. He doesn't want to abandon her he says. I just don't know, it really does seem like a nightmare I wish I could just wake up.

Whoa!

Your H got an 18 year old former employee pregnant .... and your children are 16,15 and 12 ....!!!!

Gawd, what a mess.

What kind of man is he?

Here are his current choices:

1.Saving his marriage relationship with you and the relationship with his 3 teenage children.

vs

2. A relationship with a girl 2 years younger than his child who may or may not be pregnant with his child.

Do you have family members around to hold you during these very dark days ahead?

Does your WH have a father figure who can counsel your H?

I cannot imagine the terror you feel right now.

Get support from your family. You're gonna need more than WH can provide.

If the teens know about this, they may start acting out.

Get help and support. Your Mom, or sister or auntie .... or your father ..... ask for their support.

YOU speak to an attorney. See what you can do to protect yourself and your kids.

if she was a former employee, you might have an even larger financial disaster ahead of you .... sexual harassment ..... just keep on your toes.

Don't do this in isolation.

Get help.

I am so sorry.

Your H is a major fool .... don't trust promises he makes right now. He's lost his mind.

<img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> Pep

<small>[ November 12, 2003, 09:04 PM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>

You really need to talk to a lawyer about this. Maybe pre-paid legal. I just joined over my whole stupid situation my husband has put me in. You need to get someone who can protect you and your childeren. You dont know how this be headed down the road. Protect yourself. It sucks that people can be so stupid and selfish to the person that they were meant to be with forever. Never doubt your feelings and seek some help!
Good luck! My heart is with you!

Dear cmdp

God how I hate to read these new postings from Newbies (that's you). It's so heartwrenching to see another going through something so horrible as this is. But, you have come to the right place and we welcome you and will be here for you.

First of all, we have all been where you are right now. Most of us are into recovery, some of us for several years. But we all remember well those first hideous months/years. There are some suggestions and information that might help you get through this.

Read everything you can on this site. You need to understand that your husband is confused and might be distancing himself from you right now because he might think he is emotionally hooked into OW. If he hasn't had contact for a couple of weeks, then he will continue to go through a kind of withdrawal for another couple months or so. It usually takes about six months of steady NC before he can think more clearly and end the emotional attachment.

Some of the things you can expect is the distancing and moodiness. He might become hypersexual with you (and you with him) as couples often feel compelled to reclaim each other and their marriage this way. One moment he will be completely commited to you and the marriage and the next he will push you away and become indecisive about where his allegiance is. He really doesn't know how he feels, but he probably thinks way too much damage has been done to the marriage and that you will never be able to forgive him and that the marriage will never recover form a blow of this magnitude. But, he is wrong.

If you learn and work the Harley principles within your marriage incorporating the Policy of Joint Agreement (where nothing is done or any decision made without the other partner's ethusiastic agreement), lear and live the Rules of Honesty and Protection and immediately begin a whole hearted Plan A, you may be able to salvage the marriage, if this is what you want. The lion's share of the burden in recovery usually lands on the shoulders of the Betrayed Spouse inn the beginning...only God knows why this is true, but it is.

Another thing to consider is to not make any life altering decisions for at least six months after a shock like this because it might be something you end up regretting. Too many life altering events, out of your control, are taking place right now for you, so my advice is to hold tough because right now you are in shock, perhaps denial and you are completely raw and devastated. This is something you cannot believe could ever have happened to you and to your marriage and now you are living the worst possible thing that can happen in a marriage.

What happened to me was that my husband had a very short A (6 weeks) and pregnancy resulted. My husband ended the A and came home as soon as he found out the XOW was pregnant. The shock and trauma of a pregnancy usually slaps the spouse back into reality and it wakes them up to the damage they have caused and it is often something they can't face because it effects so many people and they know what they have done is far worse than fun and games, and that what they have done has real consequences.

My husband came home wanting to work on the mariage on a good day, then suddenly thinking he should leave me and go to her because of obligation and guilt. Then he would feel obligation and guilt to me and our family and would change his mind. During this period, they are a mess. They are scared and confused and incapable of making any decisions because of all the people involved.

It took us a long time to get into a full and complete recovery because of other circumstances we were dealing with that hampered our recovery, but if we could do it, anyone could. We had so many issues and outside problems it was as if the gods were against our recovery, we looked far more like a lost cause than a possiblity.

Another thing to consider is to file for legal separation and for Child Support for your own children so that when and if there is an OC, your children will be protected financially. Until the DNA results come in, your husband should not pay any money as doing so could be seen as an admission of guilt by some courts.

Finally, it could be that this OW is not pregnant and it could be that if she is, your husband might not be the father. It has happened three times here that I know of where someone thought their OW was pregnant (and she wasn't) and that the OC was their husbands and DNA finally came back negative. It can and does happen.

I know this feels like the end of the world as you know it...and it is. But, it is not the end of your world or the end of your marriage..unless this is something you just can't live with. The GOOD news is that couples can and do recover from this (as unbelievable as it may sound) and often the marriages not only recover, but are far better than they ever were before. I know that sounds ridiculous that anything good can come out of this, but many here have found that their marriage not only survived, but thrives.

It is a strange phenomenon that on this particluar site, that the success rate of recovery is greater here than on General for people who are experiencing infidelity only. I think (and this is just my perspective) that one of the reasons is that discovery of a pregnancy throws ice water on any glamour and excitement and immediately destroys any emotional ties (real or imaignary) to the OP becaue of the huge trauma and destruction and impending doom. It just snaps people back into reality like nothing else can. Once your husband makes a decision of where he wants to be (my money is on you), he will eventually begin making an effort to rebuild the marriage with you. Until then, you will have a tough time facing these challenges pretty much by yourself...that's why this site is so crucial for Newbies at Discovery (D-day) because otherwise you would feel completely alone.

It is also recommended that you take some time to examine your husband's emotional needs (EN's) as well as your own and make an attmept to meet these EN's in each other to learn how to affair proof your marriage. All this informaiton is available either by reading everything on this site or reading Dr. Harley's books. To jump start this process, it might not hurt to consider calling Dr. Harley and making a telephone couseling session together ...it might help clear your head and his. He's so good at what he does and can reach people in their fog.

You have some hard things to think about even while you are grieving, but you have this site and all these people to help you through this. Let us know more about you.

God bless and comfort you

Catnip =^^=

<small>[ November 13, 2003, 02:49 AM: Message edited by: catnip ]</small>

cmdp,
Catnip pretty much summed it all up. Do read her words and try to find some comfort there knowing this can be a trying time but it is not without hope.

Besides the wonderful advice, pray for the way you should go. It will be hard but God hasn't forgotten you.

Please do not file for a divorce just yet, let things calm down. My attorney told me not to call her back for at least 6 months, or until I regained my composure about the shocking news.

Come here any time you want. We'll help you through.

love
Debi

Thank you all for your support. Just to fill you in a little more of my situation. Emotional attachment started right away when she started working for us Feb.2002 but PA started in Jan. The buisness we had was going under, it closed end of Feb. Left us in a big financial situation that is still not right yet. To let you know how bad, we might lose our house, we are working to save it but the bank can force us to sell to pay off the loan. My H was out of work for a few moths after buisness closed. All we have is debt right now, thank God I have a good job.I found out about this A in march,H said they only had sex once during that time but now that they wern't seeing each other daily it was driving him crazy. He left in May for 5 weeks ,to "sort this out"was seeing her then. H came back home ,couldn't leave me & kids. Problem was he always kept contact by phone. And as you now this can't happen. It didn't matter how hurt or what I said ,H was in denial. Ow ended up coming to see H in Oct at work ,then showed up at daughters swim meet ,where he left with her and had sex (which this is when she got pregnant) I found out he saw her because I had a phone recorder and had the conversation on tape. Confroted him, made him leave, in one week of not seeing me he told Ow they could not be together. Told me he really wanted to try, didn't want to lose me .Brings us to current NC for 2 weeks and now this She went to Dr, is definetly pregant. Told her Parents. They called my H ,called his work ,left a message that they wouldn't do buisness with a place that had a manager that got a 17 year old girl pregnant.(she isn't 17) Father threaten H to stay away will make his life miserable, get him fired no matter where he works. Ow still calling H ,she just wants him and needs him badly right now of course the icing on the cake is the babies due date, my H birthday! H feeling horrible(which he should) but he almost sounded suicidal last night. I know he created this mess, I do not hate OW ,I do not hate my H My problem is I always think of others and feel bad. I know she is scared I am too. I would be willing to even talk to her. I told my H if he really wants to be with her -go. He doesn't want to leave his kids and knows he won't be able to lose me. But he doesn't want to abandon her .I am willing to have contact with oc,but know it is too much of a threat to have contact with her. H is still in fog of A ,doesn't realize yet that it was just a fantasy. I really need someone to talk to who has been in this situation. I feel so desperate - everything is falling apart.Please help.

Plan A was designed for this foggy situation. No LB's. A truly trying time on BS with usually good results however it takes time and patience.

Please get some sort of counseling.

You have a tough road ahead of you until your H realizes what he has done and comes out of the fog.

Both of your emotions will not be in control right now. Your H is just as frightened as you. Plan A but do not agree to any thing you are not comfortable with just yet.

Prayer to you.

love
Debi

I have read Dr Harleys books and a few others.I have been doing plan A and honestly no LB's .The problem is first I guess we need to find out what she is going to do, but now that my H is talking again to her ,it is bothering me, all the rules seem to have changed. He says he can't just abandon her, her parents told her if she keeps the baby she has to leave the house ,they are pushing her to abort. But these private conversations are not right ,should I tell him he can talk only when I am present or not at all? how do the rules of NC apply now when he needs to know what is happening. How can he be truly devoted to working on our relationshop when she is still in the picture. I was going to talk to her ,I don't know if this is a good idea. I have been understanding ,maybe to much. Maybe I should just have freaked out and told him to leave. Some people I talk to think I should just walk away now, say I don't deserve this, can't understand why I would even want to stay, they say who cares about her look what shes done. Its hard to hear these things,they make me feel like there must be something wrong with me. I am not a hateful person, but I also do not want to be a ddormat. We do go to MC,( we both agree we do not connect very good with), I haven't called yet to tell him the latest. We also go to IC which we have both spoken to ourselves. We really need a good councelor does anyone have someone in the boston area they could recomend?

I certainly don't have any answers for you. Just wanted to let you know that you're not alone in having mixed feelings about your WS. I was the BS and my exWS got a 21 year old pregnant. We were both 47 years old. ExWS has a son from a first marriage who was 20 years old. My exWS, too, felt that he couldn't abandon this young woman and their OC. She had no home, no job, no family support, etc. Their OC was born with Down Syndrome. I did file for divorce early on because he just wouldn't be honest about what was happening. We tried to reconcile after the divorce. I met the OC and was able to love and accept him. Unfortunately, my exWS wouldn't leave the OW because "I can't trust that she will take good enough care of the baby is she's on her own." It took over a year for him to reach this conclusion after promising me multiple times that he was leaving her, loved me, never loved her, etc. He'd still be seeing me if he had his way, but I finally established "no contact". I guess it's fortunate that we didn't share any children together. That has to make it even harder for you! In spite of all this, I still was crying today over losing him. I really loved this man. I don't know if that makes us "fools" for loving men who betrayed us so deeply, or is reflective of the true depth of our love, forgiveness, and compassion. Please know that you are in my thoughts. Keep us posted on how you are doing.

What a mess. Personally, I think you are doing everything right. However, and this is a big no-no in the MB philosophy, but I think it is time for Plan B right now. I would tell him that unless he commits to you, he is to leave the marraige now. Stand there with a bag packed for him and explain that you understand the mess he has created, and you love him, but you are not going to have your life, or those of your childrens destroyed anymore by his actions. There is no reason to be mean when you do this. Then walk away from him. You are being used right now, since you are an obvious decent kind human being. The longer he uses you, the more anger is going to build and the tougher it will be to reconnect. I would be very firm right now.

Your children are at a huge impressionable age. You didn't state if they knew about OW yet. I would hope not. After watching a business go under, your children are probably already a bit nervous anyway. Don't push them over the edge. They have a strong, fair minded mother. Let them see they can count on you for their stability. Explain this to your husband, then kindly show him the door.

I agree with the attorney part. File for and get a legal separation to claim any income for your own children.

You be strong and take care of you and your children. Unfortunately, you don't have time to coddle yourself. You need to be proactive instead of reactive. They are jerking your chain and it has to stop. Her or you. PERIOD.

Keep posting here. You will learn alot. I hope you read through the messages here already. Don't be so quick to say what you will or will not accept. Your children, and their feelings will need to be addressed. They are at an age where it would be humiliating to have this in their lives. And you are the only person they have looking out for them right now. Don't make any rash decisions right now. The separation may seem rash but it serves two-fold. It protects family income for your children. It also serves notice to your husband that you are serious about this situation. He has to wake up and face reality. Right now he is just swinging in the breeze, letting her and her family run roughshod. Her father needs to be notified that he is harrassing your Husband and can face legal problems.

Right now, take steps to protect you and your future. You can Plan A, but still handle paperwork the protect yourself and your kids.

However, and this is a big no-no in the MB philosophy, but I think it is time for Plan B right now.
Plan B is a MB plan so it is right in line with MB principles.

I would tell him that unless he commits to you, he is to leave the marraige now.
This isn't Plan B, it's plan ultimatum (which is not a MB plan). Also, what do you mean by "leave the marraige"?

When you do Plan B you let the other spouse KNOW you still want the marriage.

Just to update OW decide she is going to keep baby,despite what parents say, she is prepared to leave home if she has to To answer some of the questions that were asked, my children do know about the A the girls are sick over it so I know if and whaen the learn about this they will be even sicker. My son is 12 and doesn't say to much .He and my H are best buddies, it would kill him if we got divorced. I remember one time,a few years ago, when we were tucking him in he said "please don't you and dad ever get divorced" . I am just confused and emotionally drained. I know i would like to keep our M together but I don't know how . Thanks for your support I'll keep reading but know I'm going to bed

I just need to vent a little. I really only told one person about this new bit of news ,so I really need to talk to people who have been there. My H has not said he wants to leave me ,he said he told her he can't leave me and his kids. I am just worried now because he is allowing her to call him. He has not called her ,partly because of her parents warning him to stay away. He says he will support her decision and help finacially(which is going to be next to impossible given our current situation).He can't abandon her he tells me . I want to know what that means. He said he can't tell her he cn't talk to her. Why do I feel bad for her??? Maybe because I know she is young and pregnant and to raise a baby alone, she is also someone I know, it bothers me that this baby is my childrens half sibling,that i once again feel robbed of something that was meant for me and my H to share in our M. I think sometimes if my H came out of his fog and saw that this relationship was wrong and wouldn't work, if he could only look at her like a daughter,for this is how she should have been seen as, that I could maybe even accept her. But I know this is crazy thinking. I sometimes think it would be better to just let him go and end this M myself. I cant' stand to think that he will start to go behind my back again and lie to me allover.I don't know how this will play out, will she become more and more needy? His guilt might get the best of him. Does any one have a situation where they see OC and Ow? or does this just not work? I can't stand all the questions and having my mind spin ,constantly on overload.

I have no advice and I am not sure what to say. you're in a rotten situation right now and your husband must be feeling especially guilty and obligated because she is so young.

I'm not sure what he means when he says he can't abandon her unless he is meaning that he must leave you and your kids and make a home with her and OC. But then, he would be abandoning three or four people with whom he has had a history to not abandon her. This is what gets me anyway with some OW's that post here and on TOW. They almost all say that the MM has "abandoned" them and their OC but I can't figure out how this can be construed as abandonment when they knew before hand that the MM was otherwise engaged in a marriage and obligated to his wife and their children. I'm not ever sure what else they want or expect because surely they don't really expect the MM to leave his wife and his children for just them and their OC when they have entered into their lives like a thief in the night taking from someone else something that is not theirs to take. I always find those statements about abandonment confusing and frustrating...it's like they think they have squatter's rights or something. And in your case with the girl being so young, he probably feels especially ashamed and obligated which makes this even more difficult. At that age it's like they have no concept of consequences, nor do I believe she was being calculating...maybe she was just looking to have some forbidden kicks without considering the impact on a whole family. And your husband...I don't know what to say about him. What do you think YOU want to do?

I don't know what to tell you except that I hope to God this girl gives that baby up for adoption or she is sealing her fate for life and that of an innocent child, unless the grandparents are going to be actively involved.

Your husband's only obligation would be financial if she were older and on her own but this one sounds like she is right out of high school.

<small>[ November 19, 2003, 06:02 PM: Message edited by: catnip ]</small>

In my situtation we see OC regularly, although it was not like that for OC first 4 1/2 years. We met OC 1 1/2 year ago. My 2 cents is to not get involved w/ OC.
It has been almost devastating for our entire family. Things are a bit calmer now but I would not trade the calm now for the insanity is has been this past year. My H and I both regret getting involved.

I had more problems w/ this situation this past year then I did with the original confessoin because now I had to actually see OW and OC regularly. (Ow was also younger than my H and I and claims that as part of her "excuse" but still, when I was 21 I was already married w/ a 3yo kid and being a responsible adult so age is no excuse. For your OW, well there are a ton of other 18 yo out there who are not acting so shamelessly irresponsible)

My 10 yo went through depression this past year w/ classic symptoms which I directly relate to this situation (mood swings, insomnia, angry outburst ect.) I also had major depression, anxiety, insomnia, feeling like I was literally "losing it" or "going crazy", I lost 25 (started @ 136 lowest point 117 @ 5'6) pounds and I had a very needy newborn to take care of and breastfeed plus a 3yo who flip flops back and forth from being "mad @ daddy" and "not liking OC". Oh and innocent OC, well, OW says she is not doing so well either since we are in OC life. Apparently, we are now responsible for making OC an "emotional wreck" by being in her life. (of course, she was already older when we met her, so this is probably true about the "wreck" part not the "our fault" part though!)

So if you get a chance to make a choice & you guys choose to have C w/ OC you have a loooong and bumpy road ahead of you!

I'm sorry another BS has to go through this pain <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

My H's A was with a young woman who was 22/23 yrs old, he was 39 and a father of 4, during A I became Pregnant with #5.
His excuse was she made him feel better about himself, younger, etc. He had been passed over for a promotion and saw his career in the Army drawing to a close and was depressed about that.
She made him feel good.
However when it came down to actually leaving me for her, he realised he couldn't do it. He was in this fog, thought he was going to have this new life with young wife, feel young no responsibilities. I told him, if he left, he would have to take our teen age sons with him, the eldest was 7 yrs younger than the OW. I told him that I wouldn't be able to control to anygry teenagers and keep them straight if I was a single parent with a newborn, a 5 yr old, and an 11 yr old. He started to rethink things.
With the counselor we pointed out that what ever personal problems he had, only he could solve them, he would just take them with him. She could not rebuild his self esteem, only he could do that. He was the one who was responsible for his happiness. He was the only one who make him happy. ONce he accepted that he re committed to our marriage and things are better now than ever. That was 11 years ago.
Catnip gave you some good advice. Financially I would file for separation to protect your children first, then you can resolve your marriage.
One thing that helps is to constantly reassure him that YOU LOVE HIM and YOU WANT THE MARRIAGE TO WORK. You inundate him with cards and messages that you know things are tough now, but you know the two of you can make things better and you want a life with him and your children.
You might see if the girl would let you and your H have custody of the OC if you are willing to take on the responsibility of a newborn.
I wanted to do that, but the OW wouldn't agree.
"If she couldn't have my H at least she would have a part of him" (Gag me )
Please keep coming back no matter how bad it gets. Stay strong we will all be pulling for you.

Texagirl

Thanks for your replies,sorry I haven't posted lately,been working alot. Sometimes I don't know how I keep going It is really getting tough, knid of just want to give up, I think that is what my H kind of wants because then he will feel that he won't have to decide, it can only be to be with OW. Lately the talking is getting frustrating. My H says he feels like he is backed into a wall, I am forcing him, where she will just accept what ever he does! He is still talking to her every day at work. I can not take it anymore. I heard a meesage on his phone, she says "Ilove you very much and you mean the world to me"I know they are talking about alot more personal things. He will not compromise.I said only talk to her when I am around,or we should talk to her together and let her know we are committed to our M ,we will help her with the baby, but all personal contact has to stop. I don't even think that is a good idea,but was willing to try it.He said ,oh she won't do that. I don't think he wants to do that.The mc even said what he hears is that H wants to keep both relationships. H says he can' abandon her , even told me he can't promise to make a commitment because he already broke it ,so he don't know what will happen. I am so tired, worn out. He doesn't think there is a solution. I am trying to figure one out. I even suggested for him to be alone for a while, NC with either of us. Am i supposed to be patient ,meet EN, forever ,I feel horrible I feel like I am forced to end this. I don't think he will fight to keep it going.Should I talk to her or her parents. It really should be up to him.

cmdp,
Tough situation. Contact must end to begin healing. Until then a strong plan A with no LB's and love him without question.

I would ask no more for NC as he is still lying and in the fog.

Hard as it sounds send cards and leave notes of how you love him and want you two to be together.
Ow will undoubtedly begin demanding things... do not demand! Repeat....do not demand....

Love him with your heart and soul.

If all else isn't working begin plan B.( after an amount of time you have pre-set... say 6 weeks...without a change in H)

Tell him you love him but need to start your own life because of his continuous lies. You love him ,but need space. Space to start to work on yourself...it's amazing what that time will do for you! You will no longer look needy but strong...You will and can do it!

Blessings and peace whatever you decide.

love
Debi

Gemini1
This has been going on for a while. I found out about A in March 2003,and was doing plan A even before I read the books. My H moved out for 5 weeks in may came back but contact by phone never ended. During the summer we went to MC,we have always gotten along good ,I was never nasty about anything ,maybe I was to understanding, obviously I did't demand much since he was lying to me still and saw her again in the fall. This is when I caught him and confronted ,stared a plan B, which only lasted 1 week and then he was back, started NC,only lasted 2 weeks when she called and told him she was pregnant. that was 3 weeks ago. She is only going to be 19 in a few weeks. She hasn't been demanding.I have been trying to be patient ,I have sent cards, left notes,played songs for him done everything but stand on my head! all this with nothing back, and he was always big into buying me cards ,flowers, always romantic. When I ask him about leaving he says he doesn't want that,he just can't say to her he can never speak to her agin. But I know that there relationship can not be platonic. There is always going to be this risk. I try telling him that she should have a chance to do the things a 19 yr old should be doing,going to school(which she quit already),meeting someone who she can have a life with, not the mess he is going to bring her into.He knows I am willing to stand beside him and face all the poblems together, I don't think he is ther by my side and i told him that. I feel at this point my love bank is starting to empty, Iam getting to upset, resentful inside and I know that's not good. I think if go to plan B now he will take it as I am giving up and he will definatley be with her ,which kills me. All these things go thru my head, picturing him holding her hand thru labor,all kinds of stupid thoughts,they devaste me. Maybe I am scared he will be happier with her ,I don't know anymore I just know I can not stand feeling horrible inside like this anymore.Our 17 anniversary is this weekend. We haven't really have had any problems sexually between us since this has happened ,but now I kind of feel used,don't know if I even want to be with him. I wish I could wake up from this nightmare.

If you think you must continue to be his safe place then by all means do it.

I know how horrible the nightmare is and wish the thing would end for you now.

I must warn you to not be clingy... do not LB...it does kill you inside but the results are usually good. Do not be a doormat either. Negotiate times to discuss things, then have times for just being together and try to enjoy things as small as an icecream cone together!

If your lovebank is quickly emptying, tell him you love him, tell him your desire to stay married, tell him to leave because his actions are hurting you too much.

Do not contact him after plan b starts. Settle a time frame before that. Say 6 weeks. Before he can contact you again, by letter, he must end all contact with ow. A lawyer will take care of things so you two can begin to work together again. If he won't negotiate anything and continues to lie, you will be better off learning to gain some strength and dignity before it's too late for you both. Plan b is to save what love you have left and start to work on making yourself happy.

Whatever you decide, Blessings!

love
Debi