Hi...I haven't posted lately cause I have been in a bad place, which has no business here...but now I am terrifyed.

I did what they asked and handled things through my attorney. He was served the typical papers, asking to establish the father child relationship and asking for support and full custody...they asked for NC.

Well, I got his response yesterday. He is denying that the child is his. Denying that we had a romantic relationship, but just had sex a few times and it was not an exclusive relationship. (We had a long-term affair, very exclusive on my part). He has requested a DNA test...and this is what is freaking me out....should he turn out to be the bio father, then he will decide if he wants full custody.

WTF...where is this coming from. I thought he wanted NC. Why not just leave me be and move on? Is this a ploy to get me to disappear? What should I do? LynnG???

He has requested a DNA test
And he should. Do you just expect him to pay without proof the child is his?

and this is what is freaking me out....should he turn out to be the bio father,
Do you have any doubts if he is the father (as in did you have sex with anyone else within 2 months of when you got pregnant?

then he will decide if he wants full custody.
Is this what he said or is this what you think he meant?

He is denying that the child is his.
And you think he might try for custody because???

I have no doubt...I never slept with another man during the three years we were together...ro since for that matter.

He said in court papers that should the child be his, he will go after custody. I live 1000 miles away from him, if he wins, I'll never see her again.

Why the change of heart? We have had no contact since a week after she was born. He said he could not see her or me again and stay married and now he is saying that he didn't visit her because he didn't know if she was his. Did I mention he signed the BC, insisted she have his name and was there for the birth.

twilight,

What are the reasons that you would be legally incapable of caring for a child in the courts eyes? Do you have a record of serious drug abuse? Criminal activity? Physical abuse?

It seems to me that your MM is trying to scare you. What does your attorney say?? I have NEVER heard of a case where the father would get physical custody of a child from an affair WITHOUT either the mother agreeing to it, or being deemed a grossly unfit parent.

If he says that he will "pursue custody"---that is much more likely to mean visitations. Not sole physical (residential) custody. And there's no way you could be denied being able to "see her again", unless you've been deemed a serious (deadly) physical threat to this child.

Discuss this with your attorney. You're blowing things way out of proportion here.

BREATHE.............AGAIN............INHALE............EXHALE........... OK???

No attorney worth his bow tie is going to allow any client to start paying for a child unless there is 100% concrete, legal proof of paternity. PERIOD. This is legal advice cranking up and processing. Lets not forget the obvious here too, there are two countries involved. The USA, and Imigration looks very closely at these situations to make sure that you are not using this as a way to come to this country. Just the facts!!! This is all just legal mumbo-jumbo and there will be more.

The he said/she said is a moot point really. Once the test is complete there either is or isn't child support from him. It makes no difference if you say he wanted a child with you and he says it was just casual sex. It is an Affair. Everyone has their own views on what affairs are. His laywer is following almost standard OW vs XMM court documents. You will get "tainted" at every opportunity.

Him going for custody? Doubt it very much. This is also almost standard issue. They want no contact didn't they? To be honest, we played the "legal torture" of the OW too. I twisted the knife when I could, cause I was hurting. She was terrified we would take her son. I used to threaten her in the early days. I would flaunt that possibility to her all the time. Sorry to say, but I did it just to be cruel.

On the other hand, maybe they do want her if she is his???? Either way, this is what the laywer is for. If they are talking full custody, your laywer will know exactly what to do, so don't panic. This is why you have the laywer in the first place.

This is the start of the long, drawn out, legal process. It will grind along, you will win a few rounds, they will and one day, it will all be complete. Somehow it will all have been settled. Don't get false hope that you will get everything your way, nor will they. Things will be setteled in a fair way for both sides. Don't ever believe people when they say the "won big" no matter what side of the OC issue they are on. If he is the father he will pay, but he will not be broke cause of it. Nor will they not have to pay you anything. It will be done, legally, fair and square.

For the record, unless you are a drug abusing child molester, you will not lose your daughter.

Both parents have equal rights to see and be with that girl. Neither can tell the other they can't. The same laws that protect MM and his family in wanting to see and spend time with oc, are also there to protect you also. They can't just take her to punish you.

I do know of two cases where MM/BW fought and retained custody of the OC. Both OW had terrible reputations, were not at all quality parent material and the couple were able to gain full custody. You do not come across that way at all. So I doubt you have to worry.

BREATHE..............CALM DOWN.................Let the law handle all of this.

I admit, I am freaking way out. I never wanted to be his adversary, ever. If he wants visitation that's fine, although I would prefer him not to go down that road...yes I am advocating NC. I hatethis...I just want it over. So how do I go about the DNA test anyway...I am clueless.

Have your laywer set it all up. No need for you to be doing anything at this point. He has filed, and his laywer should be contacting your laywer to set this all up. Not a big deal.

YOU WILL BE OK. Just remember that.

Just by what I have read, you will not have to worry about contact with them in my opinion.

The whole EMR sets up adversarial relationships. It is part of it. At that time in our lives, H was deeply sorry and the whole child support issue, insurance, etc. was handled as a couple. He was not some cowed human, licking my boots. On the contrary, he was angry at that transpired, all the hurt and betrayal he had brought to our home and our family. He felt that since he wanted her to have an abortion, and she didn't, that her wanting child support was her way of trying to destroy us. So he did see her as an adversary. He was angry at her for getting 18 years of support for a mistake they both made, but that she choose to keep. He still feels that way. That she used the baby as a way to punish and make him "pay".

Anyway, don't worry about that. You just take care of your baby. Let the law handle the details and live your life. Enjoy your baby. Now that the laywers are engaged and papers are being filed, the train has left the station so to speak. Your laywer will let you know whats up.

Don't worry.

twilight,
I do hope all goes well for you. I must add that my H says the exact thing that LynnG's H says.

That ow gets to have a pay-back for keeping oc... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" /> ... She's the one raising oc with or without her H and that can't be too much fun.

I'm pretty sure his W will not want contact nor him for that matter.

Do as LynnG says and breathe....relax....you'll be fine. Give it some time.

I had to edit because I wanted to tell you that at first to hurt ow, I had H tell her we wanted custody. That was in my mixed up lunatic thinking days. You know? I was thrust into contact without time to consider it so I wanted my H to have oc alone then... thinking that was a sure way to keep ow away for good. After all the things she said and did, I wanted to have one up on her...BTW she was a friend.

Don't worry...reality hits soon enough and they will be discussing something else instead of contact and custody.
Debi

<small>[ November 13, 2003, 05:46 PM: Message edited by: gemini1 ]</small>

Are you trying to get CS? But you want NC?

NO court will take away your child, NONE! You can rest assured w/ that. If you want NC why can't you ask your lawyer about the MM signing away his rights to the child completely? You would not be able to get any CS but he would not be able to get C at all for visitation or anything.

If you think you wouldn't mind visitation then I guess it could be ok but do you really want to "share" your C for the rest of your life, only seeing your child for 1/2 of their holidays and having your child go back and forth? Maybe a parental rights waiver would be a viable legal option to end it all for both parties. I've only seen it done w/ fathers who were incarcerated but....maybe it is an option.

We had NC for the OC's 1st 4 1/2 yrs and now have C on a regular basis for past 17 months. (OW opened up option by suing for CS) It has been a regrettable decision for us and OW says OC is emotionally distraught over it. OW says OC having major dificulty adjusting to going back and forth although OC acts fine w/ us. (takes it out on OW when OC returns "home") Other's here have said it works out fine for them....

But don't be scared, you will not lose your C and if visitation is sought after and occurs, you will still get majority of the time.

Good luck. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I can understand your H's hating the OW if he did not want her to keep the child...not saying I agree but I do understand the emotion. My xMM was notorious for asking me to get pregnant and when I did, begged me not to have an abortion. What you call the fog, us OW's call dreaming out loud...and he did that a lot. I normally saw through it for what it was but not this time...I believed he wanted to leave...stupid hun?

I guess what I don't understand is why he hates me. I have done everything he asked, never gotten ugly, even though I truly want to at times. Have never ratted him out about anything...I just don't get it. I wanted to settle this peacefully and try to move on.

It is amazing how much someone can lie to save their butt...I never thought he had it in him...again, stupid.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by twilight:
<strong> What you call the fog, us OW's call dreaming out loud</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hi Twilight

That is so interesting to me to hear this POV because I remember my husband's bizarre thought patterns throughout and after the affair for about six months or so. I realized that he wasn't himself or thinking the way he normally did but I couldn't come up with any other name than the fog...but dreaming out loud was exactly what he did.

He would tell OW that he was going to get me out of our business (which was 50% mine) and hire her Dad and her BIL as employees and she could work with him every day growing the business like I had done for ten years. What was so absurd about it was what the hell did he think he was going to do with me? Kill me? It was going to get mighty crowded in that office because I refused to leave quietly...I had my life invested in that business and I wasn't about to walk away quietly on his whim. While he was playing big shot and impressing OW, he was killing our business and running it into bankruptcy. He also told her they were going to rent or buy a brownstone apartment in NYC and he was going to give her his brand new Suburban (but neglected to mention that I had made the down payment on it and it was a company vehicle). The sky was the limit...all this within a six week time frame.

He told me recently that the whole thing was a weird bizarre dream and he actually thought he was so much more than he actually was (delusions of granduer which is part of his disorder anyway) I said "You acted like you thought you were a big shot like Donald Trump". He said, , "No, I thought I was Donald Trump".

The tragedy about all this is that so many women are so stupid that they believe these MM even after a couple weeks and jump in with both feet without any consideration to the reality of it all or the man's children, marriage or wife. The wife becomes insane during this horrific period of time and all she can do is shift into survival mode....everything she has done to build here life is suddenly threatened.

I know your XMM's W said some horrible, horrible things about your daughter and I know your buddies over there are going to get all whipped into a frenzy over this, but I know she only said those things to hurt you and to hurt her husband. She doesn't want contact and I bet XMM doesn't either. I don't beleive you ahve a thing to worry about regarding custody or visitation. I think you are blowing all this out of proportion simply because you don't seem to have adequate counsel (which scares the hell out of you) and of course, you have that passport issue, too. But I know no one is going to take your child away from you.

Find yourself a great attorney and let him handle the issues so you don't have to.

Take care

Cat =^^=

F

twilight,,,,,,, the others have given you excellent tutor on this.


just wanted to say don't get yourself all caught up in the how serious was the relationship stuff. it has no beraing on anything now. your concern now is for your child.

good luck, pops

He hates everything about the EMR. You think he doesn't love his wife? Had he told you he loved her but just wanted to fool around, would you have? Or did he say bad things about her, which justied your affair? Well, I think his actions have proven he loves her. They, together decided that they want no contact. That means with you and the child. That hurt you. He had a choice to make and it was her feelings over those of you and the child. That speaks volumes for where his heart is at.

As for hating you? Well, my husband sure did. OW represents everything that hurt his family. Everytime you contact them for this or that, he will hate you a little bit more. It is harsh but it is true. They are healing their marriage and you are the outsider. He is mad at himself for causing the trouble at home, and hates ow for what she represents. As time goes on, and he and his wife are happy and strong, hate for you will turn to indifference.

OW had a nasty, near fatal car accident a few years back. Her family thought we should know, why is beyond me. When her sister spoke to him, his response was "sorry, but what are you telling me for?" She was a random victim of an accident, sad it happened by absolutely no concern of ours. Sorta like watching the news and hearing of some stanger in an accident. Sorry for them, but it doesn't affect you.

You are an adversary now. You were never to be known to his wife. Had he truly loved you, he would have left his wife for you. It isn't hard and divorces happen everyday. People do not stay for money or children. That is a falshood perpetuated by OW across the land to avoid facing reality. Now that she knows about you, and the fact that a child has resulted, he is wide awake at what he has done to his wife. She is the one he is concerned about and cares for. When she cries about the pain, he holds her and tells her over and over again that he loves her and that he is so sorry for everything. He is trying to win her heart back. Most OW like to think the BW is tying him up in the yard like a dog. Not true. Most BW yell DIVORCE, GET OUT, etc. It is the MM who is begging and pleading and wooing the BW back. Each time you contact them for this or that, he hates you. He hates everything about the EMR cause it hurt people he loves. And I am talking about real, open, honest love. Not the random sex and lies of an affair. But real, built on honesty and choice and dreams love. The love that is in the marriage. The love they had when they bought their rings, when they picked out their home, furniture, etc. The love that was there when they had their first holiday as married people. The nights spent cuddled up in front of the fire, watching movies. That is what he is remembering right now. And then, there is the affair, in all its uglyness, and dishonest and full of lies and half truths. That does not even begin to compare to what he could have lost with her, and he knows it. That is why you were supposed to stay a secret and she wasn't supposed to know. He just wanted to fool around. Big difference between love and an affair. So yes, he could very well hate you. It will eventually turn to indifference and everyones life goes on.

It's like a fire. By playing with matches someone burns the family house down. While the house is being torn down and rebuilt, the family has to deal with insurance companies, builders, plumbers, etc. That is on the mind of the couple as they rebuild. Once the house is rebuilt, life goes on and back to normal. New memories are made. Some parts of the houe are even better then the old one. Soon, the old house is all but forgotten. But everynow and then, when they hear or see of a house that was set a fire with a match, they remember. The spouse who played with the matches, will feel a bit guilty. But it isn't consuming anymore cause they are safe again. The fire just a part of their past.

You represent the fire. Once everything is taken care of, the EMR will fade from their lives and they will move on. Right now he hates fire for allt he damage it causes, even though he is the one who started it. Imagine the regret he is feeling?

I have been up all night soul searching and I have come to a decision. I am dropping the child support case against him. I am moving out of his condo and disappearing. I don't ever want my daughter to know he tried to deny her. I want to walk away while I still feel as if she was created in love, (in my mind anyway). I want to be able to share good things with her about her father and if i continue on this path I will not be able to do that. It will be a struggle financially but I will manage...I always do. There is however a problem, I called my government and asked how to get his name off the BC...only can be done with a court order, which requires a DNA test proving he isn't the father. I'm sure he would be willing to have her surname changed but I will not be able to erase him completely.

I want this over, now and forever. So, how do I approach this with them? What do I do about the condo, I really have no other place to go...do you think they will give me some time to get my finances together? I am done with attorneys.

twilight,

I would still have your attorney work for you, to the point of getting out of their lives and dropping the CS case. If you decide to go underground, there's the minute possibility that this could be used against you should this guy want to pursue a relationship with the child. Make sure that you have an agreement, and then get the heck away from him.

I wish that there was a win-win situation here, but I don't see one. Based on how he's reacting, I wouldn't want to allow him the opportunity to parent this child...

I wish there was a way to cut through the crap and find out what they really want. Their contact name they gave me perhaps? Should I call her? I have spoken to her in the past and she seems fairly neutral.

Call your attorney and tell him what you want. He will contact them and all will be over with.

As far as the BC, well that has to be done by law. He is on the BC and will have to have a test anyway, no matter what you want to do. You can't say "no child support" as the law will not allow that. What you can do is say I want $1.00 per month x 18 years or whatever and call it done. Or whatever amount and see if that will fly. A lump sum if you will. Then move on and never look back. But it has to be legal.

Of course he cannot be erased and if the A never happened you would not be blessed w/ your C.

Some good things come from all this pain. He keeps his marriage and wife, which will probably get even better than before, and you get a wonderful child to adore and love. In all the regret, I'm sure you don't regret having your C.

Yes, use the attorneys to make everything clear and legal. It will be hard to be alone but you will have a chance to rebuild your life and move on. It will be hard for him too but he will also have the chance to rebuild his life and marriage and move on.

It will be ok. You will be ok.