I feel all sad and mad.
Sad that this happened to me and mad as heck that my H and FOW (best friend) and her H kept the A and the knowledge of OC from me. This child has been a part of my life for nine years! She is my D’s best friend!

I feel more angry at my best friend than I do at my own H!! When the A began (10 years ago) I was going through a very hard time, I had suffered four miscarriages in a year, then, when I finally got pregnant with our D, I had terrible morning sickness, which I call all-day-sickness because I threw up all day long. I was not the most ‘romantic’ person to be around, if you know what I mean. I thought that FOW was the greatest friend on earth, she was there for me, helping me with school lunches for my other kids, and with dinners, driving me to appointments and to the hospital because I was so weak from being so sick. Well I guess she was helping out with a lot more than that!!

Three months after I got pregnant, she became pregnant as well. Her husband had had a vasectomy, I guess about a year or so before, but she just told me that the vasectomy ‘didn’t take.’ I had no reason to not believe her. I was so overjoyed that my best friend and I were going to have our babies together! Now to know that we were both pregnant by my H – well there are just no words to describe it, the closest I can come to it is, and pardon me for the vulgarity of it – is it is a total ‘mind [censored]’. I feel so sickened now when I even see a pregnant woman. I still have problems sleeping because my mind just spins and spins thinking about all of this.

My H says that before the A began, he would be driving somewhere with FOW and her H, and the H would take his wife’s top off in their truck. Then she would just sit there! I didn’t ask to know anymore details! It is just so sick! Over the years the OW’s H would come on to me and not just with little sexual innuendoes either! The man took down his pants and waved his penis right at me! I never did understand why my friend was never angry at him for this. My H seemed mad enough though. I feel like I was part of a big game where I was the only one who didn’t know the rules! I also feel like a terrible judge of character. I distanced myself from my friend’s husband , and I felt sorry for HER! That she married a man like that.

I also feel so mad that I was never told of this first A, because I allowed that woman to remain in my life as my best friend. I didn’t know she was a wolf in sheep’s clothing, and my H and her had a second A. I think of all the intimate, personal things I told her and oh, how I cringe now. And all the while, I never suspected a thing.

This woman has a terrible reputation now. A couple of years ago, she got caught sleeping with her H’s own brother. She is totally out of control. My H has become an alcoholic, he always liked to have couple of beers, but it got so out of control. Like I said before I think that 10 years of guilt may have lead him to drink like that. I know he is sorry for what he has done. This man never cries and for the past two months that has been all he has been doing,. He says he feels so ASHAMED. He is so sorry for all of the pain he has caused me. When I finally got up the nerve and had the control I needed to confront my best friend with this, she never said she was sorry. After about 15 minutes of talking with her I had told her I was waiting for something. She looked at my blankly and said ‘what’? I said I am waiting for you to say you are sorry… She apologized, but I don’t even know if she meant it. She just infuriates me to no end! And I have to be nice to her, I feel, for the OC sake.!!!GRRRRR!!!

Oh gosh, I could write a novel here, there is soooo much.
Thanks for listening to me, it helps me a great deal.
I still haven’t told very many people about this. I told my H that I didn’t know how I was gonna tell my Dad. My H says that he will do that. That will be so HARD for him to do. I hope it goes well.

Dear HIT,

You have suffered at least a double betrayl by your H and your best friend. I know that a few women on this site have been in your place. Right now, I can think of Jenny and Gemini1. I hope they come along with better advice than I can offer.

Are you and H in counseling? Can you afford it? Can you afford not to be? Although I haven't counseled with them, I understand from those that have that the Harleys are great, but expensive as they don't accept any insurance nor offer discounted rates on ability to pay.

Many of us were more angry that the OW. For some there is a violated sense of sisterhood, that somehow we expect women to be above this type of behavior. I was angrier at her (and at the OC briefly) than I was at him. I assume that it was safer to be angry at people I wasn't trying to maintain a marriage with.

I don't understand why you would have to maintain a relationship for the sake of the OC. Children lose best friends all the time. Families move and kids make new friends. Given the hideous betrayl you have suffered and that you have been kept in the dark, it seems to me to be a reasonable request of your husband that you move at least to another town to put some physical distance between all of you.

I too felt that I must be a terrible judge of character to not have known or even suspected that my H was invovled in a 7-year long affair. It was one of the most upsetting aspects for me. If I didn't know this, how was I going to keep myself safe in the future? Still haven't resolved it but don't worry about it as much as I did. Probably because H doesn't travel on business anymore and we are always together. Hiding an affair would be much harder for him now.

Hope you get more help,
MJ

Dear Hangin In There,
Maryjanes was right.

Ow was my friend. Oh we'd go everywhere with her and her H. Dinner and dancing mostly!

I remember so many things now without the time to say them....~sigh~

One time at her Mom's (she and her H have always lived w/her Mom), she took me to her lavish bedroom and asked if I liked a particular cologne and I did. She gave me the bottle and it was huge and expensive.

I know why now, she wore it and H told her she smelled just like me! Ruined that night...

Another time on New Years Eve we went early to her H's family restaurant for a drink before another party we had to go to. Before we left, H kissed ow "Happy New Year" very slight, but on the lips. I remember feeling a wierd sensation. Her H hurried to do the same but I turned my head and offered my cheek. I told H I felt awkward about his kiss to her but he made me feel I was acting foolish, after all I got to kiss him at midnight, didn't I?

Another time she said her H needed medicated because he suspected she was having an affair! I said I'd d-i-e if my H had one and with a smile she said I'd never have to worry about that because loved me and wasn't "that way". I agreed and I'll bet she laughed her butt off later.

Another time toward the end of the A my H well... needed viagra or something because he couldn't well...you know... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" /> and that had never happened before. I confidently told ow and she just laughed, and said all men do that from time to time! What a fool I was made out to be!

Later H said he couldn't do her either and the secret was killing him, she kept threatening to tell me, he was trying to keep peace and wanted out and THEN....she ended up pregnant.

It happened on her kitchen steps after crying and begging my H not to leave her... he said at the time he felt sorry for her <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> and they boinked. He thought she was still on the pill however he said HE FELT a strange sensation and just KNEW she'd get pregnant. Well the rest is history!!!!

Toward the end of the A knowing what I now know, she was mean on several occassions, made fun of a dress I wore to a wedding of a mutual friend..."How could you wear red? You look better in another color....I was horrified she said it....shared it with my H later and he said she can be a spoiled bit*h at times.

Then her divorce was filed and in our paper. I asked H what was up and he claimed not to know. We hadn't been out with them for about 6 weeks.

H explained that he didn't want to see them any longer as her Mom was angry that a spec house my H built using 1/2 ow's Mom's money and 1/2 ours, didn't sell for as much as they wanted to make...so...I believed him!

H kept the secret for almost 6 weeks and wasn't sleeping....then he told me and it was the most horrible thing I'd ever heard!

I kept saying why did you TWO do this? Why did you make me look so foolish? How could you be out with all of us together? What were you thinking?

I threw that perfume away and never wore it since. It was a favorite of mine.

Now three years later I no longer share as much as I used to. I used to be an open book with the girls. Never again.

Do you know that ow took many many things out on me? Letters she wrote would curl your hair. Things she said to me via our phone conversations after oc was born would absoloutly be horrendous. E-mails that were so filthy. She said she'd never stay with an H who cheated. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> She accused me of being unstable and said our son was mental. (Our son was hospitalized over this and I took anti depressants for around 6 months.)

I made the mistake of STILL being her friend when I told her what this affair did to us as a family!

She sent magazines for babies to our home with her first name and H's last name which I had to call and cancel. She sent photo specials for baby pictures from Sears and J C Penneys the same way. She'd drive by our home a million times a day shouting profanity to me giving me the middle finger soloute if I was out side.

She pushed into me when I was out doing my daily walk on day.(she drove to our neighborhood and parked in a nearby park parking lot to be able to walk past our home)

Ok, I've said enough. Whew! What a vent, huh?

It is horrible to be betrayed by TWO. My H took the brunt however, later on after d-day and during our counseling. You'll see Hangin'.

The fact that you were pregnant and your daughters are friends in no way implies you must continue to be "friends"

The further away from that situation, the quicker you'll recover, as long as your H is willing to make you feel safe again.

Mine truly has. Hope yours does too.

BTW, the Harleys are worth their weight in gold because they have seen it all and offer many ways to heal.

Do consider calling the counseling center.

I DO understand honey, I do.
love
Debi

Well, HIT, all I can say is that this couple, FOW and her H, sound like a couple of perverts. If she is sitting there totally unconcerned that she is half naked in a truck for all the world to see, including your husband and security cameras, and her H is shaking his wing-a-ding-ding atcha, maybe that explains why their daughter is okey-doke with the new revelation that her best friend is her sister. Sounds like there ain't no boundaries in that household.

As far as forgiving your husband and blaming the OW...that is universal. Primarily because your husband is the one who is ashamed, sorry and horrified while the FOW isn't the least bit contrite...she got what she wanted and apparently, that is all that mattered to her.

It took me three and a half years before I could look at a pregnant person, a baby and watch EPT test ads on TV. I am unable to have children. Tough stuff, for sure.

I hope Gem and Jenny will be along soon to help you through this double betrayal.

Has the FOW's "Flasher" H forgiven her and the A and accepted the daughter as his?

I'm so sorry you are going through this...it must be horrible to find out you've been living a lie for a whole decade. I was only out of the loop in my situation about two-three months, but it still made me feel like the entire time I was married to my husband was a huge waste of my time and felt like I was married to someone I never really knew. I guess we all have feet of clay.

I hope your husband's remorse will be like a healing balm to you and you will recover from this since he is so sincerely sorry.

Catnip =^^=

<small>[ November 18, 2003, 02:30 PM: Message edited by: catnip ]</small>

One thing I am curious about is; what inspired your husband to tell you the truth about the A with your friend and the OC? Did something happen...like a crisis or some pivotal moment or did the guilt just get to him? I was just wondering what compelled him to tell you about this. How long were the A's? Just curious...you don't have to answer if you don't want to.

Catnip =^^=

You allow your daughter in that home? How do you know he is not wagging it at her? They both sound like the "type". I would move and get away from them and the oc. Get your daughter away from these people and moving allows it to end in less confrontatinal way.

Why not let that anger out? Good for you. Yeah, your OW is a crazed perverted slut. Her husband is a perverted pig. You should be mad. They sound like people who do not value family and children. She obviously used you for years, and mocked you. Be pissed. Let it out. Don't sweep it under the rug. Could you do this with a therapist? Harleys? As for your own husband. Tell him to quit the drinking NOW. Cold Turkey. Or get him treatment. He can't hide behind the bottle anymore.

Go ahead, get mad. Your allowed.

I would also stop any interaction with the oc too. Sounds like your daughter was upset by the news. Lay off that for a while. Why should you have that reminder in your home? This is not a disaster that you have created. Invite other friends over for your daughter to play with. Go places her. Buy her a horse or get her riding lessons, skiing lessons, skating lessons, any activity that the two of you can take up to fill the time spent with oc.

I would not allow my daughter any where near people like that.

But you go ahead, get mad. Vent vent vent. You are entitled. Don't ever speak to that woman again. Period. Should she call the house, hang up. If her daughter calls, tell her it isn't a good time and hang up. I know it isn't OC fault. But come on. You have a right to some privacy and space here. Take it.

Your anger at your husband will come, to be sure. Right now, you are mad at OW. Well she deserves it. But cut off that trollop right now.

Do you have other friends you can talk to?

You have every right to be pissed at FOW. She was your bestfriend, probably like a sister to you. You had two knives shoved into your back, your H and FOW. It hurts beyond belief. Besides your H betraying you the one other person in your life that you could count on also betrayed you.

My H cheated with my BF also. She to ended up pregnant but miscarried and I didn't know it was my H till yrs later. The first time they hooked up we were at a party together. I was 8mths pregnant with our first child, a few days before christmas. H & BF were drunk and I insisted on driving home. H refused to give the keys so I walked. 6 miles home in the nice Michigan weather 3 in the morning. They never came looking for me. To busy screwing. Other times she would go over while I was in school, or have me watch her son. Nothing like babysitting for her so she could screw my H. Her excuse, wanted to show me what kind of jerk he was.

I'm so sorry you have to go through this kind of betrayal.

Hangin', I'm so sorry and of course it's totally normal for you to be more pissed at her right now. She crossed a big "friend" NO-NO!!!!!! Lied lied lied. My H also had OC w/X-bestfriend, pregnant at same times. What they did to you, the betrayal and secrets of everyone involved is cruel, cruel, cruel. Your feelings are completely to be expected. Fortunately we were able to move away while OC was a baby, while your story is so very sad and complicated, w/the kids involved, small town and everything....

You deserve time to yourself, just for you to process, somewhere you can let lose and be mad (smash old dishes or fruit), cry, nap, have a long bath, journal, exercise and take good care of yourself! Don't forget the basics under stress (easy to do)--sleep, food, water. I hope you have good counselors and other friends.

It has to be VERY hard to be supporting your children through this and not lose your own mind. Is your H taking any of the (emotional) load w/the kids?! You are right to get counseling for them, and the XOW is wrong NOT to get counseling, but there is nothing you can do about them. They sound really messed up.

God be with you.
J
in recovery 5y

Are you and H in counseling?

Yes, we have gone to counseling together. The counselor told us that H has to work on overcoming his addiction to alcohol first, and she immediately set him up with an alcohol counselor. He has cut down on the drinking but still hasn't stopped, he is under great stress from now having everyone know about this A and OC. I have made it very clear that he has to stop if he wants this marriage to work. My main focus was on when/if we should tell our children. I know we have a lot of work to do together and I have been reading over some of the concepts on this site. They seem pretty consistent with what our counselor is telling us. I live in Canada so I don't know if counseling with the Harley's would be an option for us, as our counselor is paid through our medical plan. We also see a counselor through something called the family enrichment program, our children our involved in this as well. I am trying to do all I can for them and myself.

Has the FOW's "Flasher" H forgiven her and the A and accepted the daughter as his?

Yes this seems to be the case. When I told his wife that I KNEW all about the A and OC, her husband called me up to thank me for thinking of the child, he says that he loves her as his own. I asked this man about his wife's flings and he just said to me "whatever makes her happy, makes me happy". It is a weird marriage they have. Right now her ‘best friend’ is another married man who she swears that she is not sleeping with. Ya RIGHT!

When I found out about all of this 2 and a half months ago, my first reaction was to move, but I have been told to not make any major decisions until the shock wears off. But YES I still do want to move, and now that this is all out in the open, my H feels the same way! We live in B.C. about 3 hours away from where there were lots of houses lost in this year's forest fires. I know my H who is in construction could get a great job there! However while I still live in this community, I am determined to live with grace and dignity, even though secretly inside, I want to run over this woman with my truck! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

What inspired your husband to tell you the truth about the A with your friend and the OC?

In the last few years I have had several people ask me about the OC and her resemblance to my H. Whenever someone asked me about it I would immediately go to my H and ask him about it. But he always just denied it. Deny, deny, deny. I had never had any suspicions about them. They never got caught. But of course this started a little seed of doubt. This summer my oldest daughter who is 15, made a remark about the resemblance. Well that was it, I just badgered my husband until he admitted it. And now here I am. I still can’t believe it. I don’t know how long the A’s were. I don’t think right now that I can bear to know. I didn’t find out about the 2nd A ‘till a month later and it devastated me. I felt the same shock all over again. I do know that it has been over for years.

You allow your daughter in that home?

When FOW told me she had been caught sleeping with her husband’s brother, that is when our friendship started to dwindle. My daughter has not been to her home since then, instead, her daughter comes over to play at our house. I guess it gives OW the chance to get out and do her own thing?! Whatever that is…

The OC has been a part of my life for nine years, it is hard to cut that off as I really do love her.
I have a lot of thinking to do.
I had a great big laugh when I read all of the nasty things being said about this woman. She IS DISGUSTING! This helped me tremendously! Thank-you!!


Thank you all for helping me through this. It is such help for me to know that this has happened to others and that all of you are surviving. Big hugs to you all.

<small>[ November 18, 2003, 07:47 PM: Message edited by: Hangin'InThere ]</small>

Hangin', I gotta say that under these EXTRAordinary circumstances, you're handling it GREAT!! You've done everything right as far as I can see from here and here's a big pat on the back! wow.

Good for you!
J