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LynnG Offline OP
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Aside from child support, why should a MM with a wife and children be expected to anything that will further upset his own family?

Do the needs of the BC not count for something? Why should the BC have to adjust their lives to accomodate an OC?

Why are the needs of the OC more important then the BC?

<small>[ November 29, 2003, 02:38 PM: Message edited by: LynnG ]</small>

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Lynn: I know you'll bash me for this, but no one has said that the bc needs outweight the oc needs. As mothers I think we ALL have our point of view for what is best for our child/ren. I have my point of view and it does not agree with yours, but on the other hand.....I HAVE accepted that my child will not have her bio daddy around. It's the way it is, and there is nothing I can do about it, so why cry anymore about it. WE all (bs, ow, bc, oc) have been affected by this in one way or another. I also don't agree that it's non of the ow business if the uh/xmm decides for nc. It is, BUT there is nothing she can do about it and that means to make the best of it, and yes this child can be raised nicely without the bio father. I also think it's best not to bring the ow attitude into the child about the bio father regarding that hurt so the oc can have a chance to later on in life hopefully have a great relationship with whom ever she chooses to marry. A healthy one. A mistake happened, and it was a bad mistake, but you can not turn back the clock. It happened. Everyone's life has been affected already. Just as it's the xmm choice for nc, it's the ow's choice to bring this child into this world. I'll tell you to Lynn, It was NOT just my mistake with the affair, it was also xmm's fault. Not all ow are sluts who are out for one thing and to ruin your life and take your man. A lot of uh/mm tell a lot of lies. If the bs is not smart enough to believe her uh, then what makes it's so wrong that the ow could be smart enough. We all know the smartest of women have been known to do the stupidest things when it comes to a man. I feel strongly that a relationship should be with the bio father. I can't expect anyone not in my shoes not to understand it, or worse in your shoes......but does not mean that I don't accept it and try and see it from you the bs stand point. I try to see that. I know if I were in your shoes I'd have to be a very strong person to accept the oc and what goes along with it. I think as pissed off has I'd be to pay child support to a child that was out of deceat, I could much better do that than see the reminder of my uh affair. But I also know the person that I am, and how I feel about kids, I would probally encourage my uh to see his child all of them. Would I stay with him under those circumsatances? Don't know. You see I've also walked in the shoes of a women who for over 10 years could not have kids. Out of 7 pregnancies I lost all but one. My twins. I have a different persective on life than someone who has not walked in my shoes. AND I'm NOT saying any of the mothers here don't love and appricate there kids life. I'm just saying that because of what I went through I have made choices that I probally would not of made over 10 years ago, and my thought process is way different. I think on that other post, both sides were taking it to the extereme to make a point. I surely know the difference of throwing a child away and what a parent does to give that child the best possible life. I would of killed to have someone give me there child that was unable to take care of it. Well not killed, but you know what I mean.

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***********edited*********

Oppssss! I KNOW you didn't mean to get so nasty as a "GUEST" on this board.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Justuss

<small>[ November 29, 2003, 09:40 PM: Message edited by: Justuss ]</small>

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The Duchess,

Which trash dumpster did you come out of? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Next time you're looking for a lover, make sure he is available. If he's not willing to play daddy with you in the event of a pregnancy, don't have sex with him. It's soooo simple.

Hurt that the kid doesn't have an active daddy? Well, IT'S YOUR FAULT, OW!!!

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****edited*********

Tsk,,,tsk,,tsk,,,,Another nasty slip!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

<small>[ November 29, 2003, 09:44 PM: Message edited by: Justuss ]</small>

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This situation doesn't apply to me (thank God) but these threads are a train-wreck that I can't help but follow.

In my not-so-humble opinion, if the OW had ANY concern for the well-being of their child/ren, they would put them up for adoption so they could be raised in an in-tact, two-parent home.

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*****edited******

Sorry gardenbunny,,

Had to delete your response. We can't feed the trolls,,they don't deserve a response... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Justuss

<small>[ November 29, 2003, 10:05 PM: Message edited by: Justuss ]</small>

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Lynn

In my case, this XOW, and I mean X never again, doesn't expect anything from MM or his family.

We both made the mistake to bring a child in this world. We were both married to others and planned a child togehter. Its even worse than an accident.

MM family knows abouth the kids. He told them. I had nothing to do with it. MM has no bio children with the W and the 3 step kids are grown and moved out. MM also is not on the BC, my H is. My H knew the truth and wanted to be put on it. MM has taken me to court for rights to the kids, he lost. He also knew if he won, he would have had to pay well over $1000 a month in CS. I still did not persue him.

In my case its the MM causeing problems. I let him be. Its been over for three yrs and he is still trying to get me. Using the children.

I agree that when the A happened, I wasn't thinking right. Call it selfish you want, I was in a terrible state of mind, completly beat down by my H. If it was possible to ask Xmm he would admitt he was the one who persuded me. I broke. I truely wasn't thinking about my familes needs.

As for aborting the kids or adoption. Like I stated the first child was planned. Stupidly. My H took her in as his own and loves her dearly. As for the second child. He was conceived on the last day of my A. When I found out I was pregnant I was devistated. I did look into aborting him. I couldn't do it. My H was pissed. I also didn't tell XMM. When he found out he told my family and my H family. In the end my H wanted to be on the BC. I told him it wasn't nessecary. The children are now 5 and 2 1/2. My H loves to death. Our 3 other kids know the truth, but I don't think really understand.

One thing to point out. Yes my H is a wonderful man to even consider and take these two kids in as his own. Even wonderful to still want me after having a 3yr A that produced two children. But this is about as good as it gets. He has had numerous affairs before I had mine and after. He also has a OC who almost the same age as my oldest OC. He has been both physcially and verbaly abusive with me. Right now I pray every day that my marriage can be saved. I know I made a mistake, I have asked for forgivness and I know I will never repeat it. I'm doing what it takes to try and make my marriage work.

Ok, every one can go back to bickering now

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As for my H XOW with his OC, what did she expect from my H? She expected what most OW expect. Him to leave the family. When he was living with her she didn't even want him to pay child support or see the kids. After he came back home, she played her games with him. He could have had the birth covered by his insurance, but she didn't want anything to do with him since he came back home. Didn't even tell him the baby was born.

9mths later she finally contacted him and asked him if he wanted to see his son. Her hidden motives were $$. In order for him to see OC, he had to bring money. Then she went after child support. And stuck it to him good. H had to pay for all medical bills from the begining of the pregnacy, child support from the day OC was born and her legal fees. 4yrs later she is still playing games. Trying to force OC on H family. She still hasn't got what she wants or expected.

One of her expectations for my H was him being a better father to OC than he was to his other children. I did get to say "I told you so", with a big smile on my face.

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My take on this is that if the MM does not leave the marriage, OW are mad. Then, if he chooses no contact, OW assume it is the wife pressuring him to it. That was not the case in my home. We talked about it, and we decided that contact would be to damaging to our own children.

And while we did do everyting legally possible to protect family assets,we do pay CS.

So when I read here, I am rather surprised that OW are so upset at no contact. What I am wondering is why should their be contact? The situation has been unfair from the get go. Two people have caused this, and seem to expect everyone else to take care of the mess.

What I am looking for is does an OW really expect the MM and his family to bond with and help raise this child?

I know we will never agree. I see the OC as an finiacial obligation. Husband is ashamed of the whole situation that he helped create. He does see the OC as a mistake. The situation of course. Since he has never had a part of the life of OC, there is no bond at all.

What I am wondering is how can OW expect everyone involved to accomodate their child? I see over and over how people say "all the children" when in fact they mean OC. Truly, had the MM and the OW ever considered anyone but themselves, none of these children would be in this situation.

Thanks for the dialog.

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I cannot say for certain what the OW in our case really wants from us.

I know in the beginning, she wanted my H to marry her and to regain custody of her son. She had told her entire family they were getting married in April of 2001… The same month we reconciled. Her family had no idea that he was married already…

Now? Who knows? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> She left Lil Bit with us from July until Oct, only spending 6 hours with her during that time. Seems she wants her “freedom” back… She agreed to the change in custody. She agreed to greatly reduced visitation.

I don’t really care what she wants from my family. All I care about it taking care of my children, making sure they grow up knowing how much we love them. And that includes Lil Bit.

Not all OW’s are as … <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> I really have no word for it <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> … as the one in our situation.

As I have learned from posting on this board and in reading others, no 2 situations are alike. Thank God for that!
Each of us handle the situation differently… We do what we feel we must do for our families.

And that is what counts. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

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I have personally asked our OW that same question and haven't gotten an answer yet. I can guess though, based on her actions and things she has said.

I believe 1st and foremost she wants someone to "take care of" HER.("I'm just a single mom, I have no one to help me!")

After A, (and saying she wanted nothing from H & wanted NC) she went on to have another relationship that produced another C, that did not "work out", THEN she decided to file for CS from my H.

She wanted my H ("sorry, I didn't think you'd still be around!"....in the beginning, always requested H to come to visits alone, w/o W and BC, gave up when she realized THAT would never happen)

She wants CS ("sorry, I didn't know you had a bigger family!")

Wants to be "innocent vistim".("this is ALL MM's fault. none of this is MY fault!"

She wants OC all to herself BUT w/ plenty of CS included.("I think you should spend LESS time w/ OC)

SHE WANTS SYMPATHY!

Of course, if YOU asked her I'm sure OW motives would be "pure & innocent".

Do I believe she is out to ruin my life? Honestly, partly, YES! I know that may sound utterly ridiculous but I think it is partly true. She tried to steal from me and since it backfired and did not work out for HER, I think she is using what she can to make sure it doesn't exactly work out for me either. I know she is jealous of "me" because I have the husband, home, family and the "preferred" children and she has the 2 kids(1 who she will now only spend 1/2 her time with) w/ out a man.

I am living the "dream" while she has the "cold, harsh, reality" and someone has got to "pay" for that! It will be my H AND my BC and ME who pay. We all have to pay for her being victimized! She likes to paint her life as so hard and always compare to me how hard her life is and always point out how we should cut her some slack because she is only a single mom w/ 2 kids. She thinks I have the "perfect" life. That's how self-centered she is! She does not want to think of how much pain has gone on on this side of the fence, thanks in part, to HER! Everything is my H fault and she is totally blameless!!! She gets upset @ us for the decisions in her life that SHE has chosen. That irks me the most, to see someone take no personal responsibility for their actions/mistakes. hello!!!

I have tried to talk to her, sincerely, mother to mother, woman to woman, about things, it calms things down for awhile and then she reverts back to how much she is doing "for US" and loses sight of the main concern----OC---yep that is the main concern with regards to this situation, NOT BC.

As much as I want to advocate for my own BC, I can't try and get any where w/ her because OF COURSE she is not going to care about my BC. "That's NOT her concern!" SO I must take care of my BC and their well-being, myself, even though she also wants us to consider her other child from different man. So, there's just no reasoning with the insane. BS MUST be the advocates for their BC AND (many times) "care" about OC but OW will NEVER care about BC, only OC.

Well, to narrow it all down.....I think what OW really want is BS LIFE, at least the "dream" they think it is, and that is why they get so upset when they can't have it their way.

OW want the H, the family, the home, the preferred children and an UNDYING love that is willing to repent, work extrememly hard and even sacrifice to prove itself every day.

Of course, I don't think OW could handle all the pain we have to go through to get that! They are only thinking of themselves! OW does not want to do the hard work to earn it,that THIS kind of love requires, OW just wants to STEAL it from someone else!

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Kt: Although I can see some truth to your post, I don't see that it's that way. Maybe cause when I hear you say ow, I think of me. Before I met xmm I was taking care of my kids and home. I would be lieing though if I told you I never wanted xmm. Of course I wanted him, or I'd of never been with him for so long. But on the flip side, why did I want him? Could xmm have of mentioned he was misserable in his marriage and blah blah blah blah blah? If the wifes believe him why would the ow not believe him? Yes it's wrong, but it happened. I could care a less if he has contact with his daughter. At this point I don't care. I do expect him to pay support. My xh has to pay and together we made a child. Same with xmm. If he ever wants contact than of course his w and kids will be involved and that is what I have to accept graceiously in order to make it work. His kids are regardless if they are involved or not my daughters sisters just as my twins are her sisters equally. Under the circumstances though my kids will probaly be closer to her and accept her without judgment. That is expected. My kids are way to young to understand any of this and I have been split up with there dad since they were 3. Where as his kids are older 9 and 11, and he is still with his wife and big difference. How they handle it is up to them. But if they ever want to see there sister the door is open. Because I think of his w and kids is why I have not open this can of worms with him yet. I am however at a point that I've played xmm's game long enough and going to give him to my attorney. At this point he could affect the welfare of my other kids and the medical insurance of this child being born if he does not either take the test which he offered months ago to do or sign the voluntary paternity paper work. Which will also cost him money seeing he is legally responsible for half of all my medical expenses. I was more than willing to spare him those. Today's doctor appointment with my co-pay 200.00. I have another appointment Thursday. That's with insurance. If I loose that insurance cause he won't be a man, then I will ask him to pay half of all cost. So it's not just always the ow being a jerk. I can tell there are a lot there, but not all of them. Xmm has a big role in the jerk role too. By what I've read is that as soon as the w finds out or a pregnancy happens the xmm bails from the sence. That is his right....and his w does has a history, but he is part of the problem as well, and why should the ow have to fight for him to even take a dna test? Reality is a hard thing to face for a lot of men. If you read some of my past post then you'll know where I'm coming from too. It is not right for ow or bs or mm to use any child or expect anything less of any child. I agree 100%. Everyone needs to look at the whole picture.

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NTMO: of course you will not see it my way because you are not the OW I have to deal w/ in my life and my H is not the MM you have to deal w/ in yours.

I even know a former OW personally, who is my friend who gave birth to OC from this A she had. I highly respect her. I talk to her to get perspective. It doesn't help that much because she is mature, takes full responsibility for her part in the situation and is hurt to see the pain that I go through because she knows that she has been responsible for pain like that to another woman. Her "situation" has even ended up differently because the MM was one of "those", he chose to end his marriage and move away from everyone. (my friend went back to church after realization of pg and then ended her relationship w/ him and strongly encouraged MM to go back to his wife, that they made a mistake and were wrong blah blah blah, I highly respect her for that.MM chose to run away from everything instead of working to improve or repair marriage)

So I have perspective. But it's when only ONE side chooses to be mature and do the right thing that it just can't work out. Many BS are willing to take the risk and find out that OW is very uncooperative, like in my case, and apparently, many others. I can't change OW and resent going so much out of my way because of her uncooperativeness (is that a real word?). I could go on and on about how much I have done (just as she likes to point out how much she has done for "us")to promote relationship w/ OC. I try to focus on OC and NOT OW but it is very hard when there is so much opposition from OW and it is a strain.


(to change the subject a bit) I've read on a few posts around here, that it takes someone (a BS) who is "very strong" to be able to have C w/ OC.....I resent that. Does that mean BS who decide w/ H for NC are "weak"? I don't think I am any stronger than the BS who chooses to protect her own cubs and is not willing to risk thier pain and suffering. I think they are just as strong. I think I was actually not strong enough to voice my own opinion, concerns about my own C and put my foot down. I regret that. I am accepting the current situation and have enough self-control and maturity to act like an adult but I don't like to see my C suffering.

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I talked to my H's OW when I first learned of the OC. I asked her what she expected.
She told me she wanted him to be the same father to her dau that he was to my children, the children of our marriage. I told her that was ludicrous, how could he do that living in another state, 700mi away. He would never be able to tuck her in at night, read her stories at bedtime, go to school meetings, etc.
I told her best she would get was support. She learned the hard way. He refused to do anything but CS. There a couple of times I tried to contact her, but she refused to work with me. So she is on her own.
She felt he should be the one to pu the child etc., but I have always arranged the children's schedules, but she wanted only contact with him.
I wasn't going to tolerate that. Their relationship was over, she could deal with me, mother to mother.

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KT:
That I can understand about a mother taking care of your childs emotional needs. Oh to well I can understand that. If she can't be women and "mother" enough to put her child's needs first. I think when people say that it takes a strong person to take on the oc, I don't think (at least I don't think) they are saying the other are weak......but I can't imgaine doing it myself, but I would. I took on step kids and that was hard enough. The mere fact that it is a consent reminder of the affair. But it does take a nitch or something like that to take it on. I think more of a selfless heart? Is that a better word? Lets face it, we are all selfish when it comes to our kids and I think that is because the love we have for them. I still cry (and there 5) when they get shots at the doctors. I know everyones' situation is different too. I guess what gets me upset is when I hear the stories about the xmm hiding money to pay as little as he can etc., and all. I guess because I look at me and how I look at things and how I've done things. My xh is suppose to pay me more than he does between our pensions and cs and all, but all I take from him is child support and ask him to pay for 1/2 of the girls day care. I don't want him sitting at home with them broke and can't do anything with them. That's no life, or can't do anything himself. I plan on doing the same with xmm. I don't want his life savings....I just want him to help feed and dress his daughter. I also expect cooporation in return though....so I guess you can say I'm giving up to have peace in my life. I know without a doubt that if xmm ever comes forth and says I want contact his family will be involved.....and so be it. That's my daughters extended family.....I even hate that word...it's her family. If he's married and his wife is her step mom and she has to respect her as well. No matter how I feel about her. No matter how much I want to scratch her eyes out.....I have to show respect in order to teach my daughter to give it. If my xh gets someone new in his life it's the same story. It's just hard for me to seperate the two situations from my kids stand point. I'm very sorry your ow is a royal pain and has caused so much. If someon is going to have kids under any cirucumstances they have to put that child's needs first in every way shape and form.


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