I posted this on another thread but I have moved it here because I would really like to hear the opinions of the OW on this board.


In my case H BEGGED OW to have an abortion or put the child up for adoption. He made it PERFECTLY clear that he did not want to parent a child with her. So are you telling me that now he should simply shrug his shoulders and say OK, if you want me to parent this child, I will. Even though I made it PERFECTLY clear I didn't want to.
As far as the old argument that if he didn't want children he should not have had sex. Why do we hold men to that standard and not women? If a women decides for whatever reason she does not wish to be a parent then she can abort, put the child up for adoption and in some states drop the child off at a "safe" location and walk away no questions asked. Then we all say what a selfless person she is or she was in such a difficult situation that she had no choice and no one will ever think the less of her.

But if a man says I am not ready to parent this child, I didn't want this child and he walks away he is labled a SOB. I am not just talking about MM, I am talking about ALL men.
SOMEONE PLEASE EXPLAIN THIS DOUBLE STANDARD TO ME !!!
If a person should not have sex if they don't want children, then do not we, as a society, need to remove the option of abortion and adoption from women or at least give the same option to men?

jt,,,,,, i don't think that if a man walks away he is necessarily a sob. that man only needs to meet his financial obligation to the c. no more.

and yes there are to many double standards in pregnancy, adoption, abortion and just plain old who is the most needed parent mom or dad.

jtigger,
Same thing my H said to ow.

She's MARRIED.

She knew me.

I think everything should be taken into consideration when cs is asked for.

Laws would have to be too defined to do it any other way, so we have to take it on the chin I guess.

My H did have oc here briefly one time.

It was when oc was a month old.

My H couldn't bond...said it was surreal...our son cried and later told us both it was because he had no feeling toward oc. Cold fact. True fact.

Son knew ow and despises her and her other c's and always did, thought they were spoiled privlidged c's....

Ow made things impossible....did not want me or son involved...said if H couldn't be a fulltime dad to forget it......we did.

It was the best for all involved mentally and personally.

If it is hard for an ow to read this then I am sorry... it is MY story and it's true.


Today we are healing and loving again. Today we share a daughter-in-law and granddaughter.

Today we thank God for HIS power of healing and bringing us together again even in the throes of divorce.

We pay CS as required. Nothing more.

BTW, our son said oc is not a sibling. Had oc been from a previous marriage or a marriage after ours, he may feel different.

Apologies to Crazymum. Different circumstances require different reasons.

So jtigger, I just don't know what is right.

I do think men get raw deals.

It's the power of the puss* POP...women get to have it all with that one. Remember the childhood joke? With one of these (vagina), I can have all of those(penis) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

love
Debi

Gem, your post did not insult me. Like you said we all have different circumstances. It's to bad she was not adult enough to put her child's needs first and because of it being an affair, if your h has contact, it's going to be with his entire family. I've said that all along. It's just the way it is. Personaly, If xmm came to me and said he wanted to see his child but not with his family, then I'd be mad. Why? Because he would be doing it behind there back which means he is sneaking around to see his daughter. Which means that if he makes plans with her and the W has other plans for him, he's going to hurt his daughter. It would never work. Either he's open about it and they decide to see her, or they don't. End of story. No in betweens.

JT, I know it seems as if it's not fair. But really who is it fair to? Some women just can't do through with an abortion or adoption. There are things that are not fair for the oc in this too, but it has to be accepted and dealt with. I've never said that a man should not have sex if he did not want a child. What I said and meant is there is always that chance. Unless of course one of them have been surgicaly fixed. I use to say I'd never get pregnant without the help of drugs and Invitro. Well, I was wrong. Boy was I wrong and I'll live with it for a long time. But it's what I feel right with and can live with. I told xmm that it's his choice not to have contact, but he was not totally off the hook. We both did it together. We both made the mistake. We both had the chance to make sure we had protection. Awhile ago he had asked me if I ever got pregnant from anyone if I'd abort, after laughing for awhile (cause he saw what xh and I went through to have my kids) I flat out told him NOPE, I'd never have an abortion. It won't happen. So he knew long before I got pregnant I would never do it. He begged me too, to get an abortion and I said no. When that time was up, then he asked me to put her up for adoption. I did consider that for about 3 weeks without him knowing it because I needed to know if I could do it without him harping on me, or being nice to me just in order to get me to do this. I even called a few agency. I don't feel right doing it. I told him no. Even though I have mixed feelings about him not being in her life for my child's sake, I know I have to accept this. It's just the way it is. Just has he has to accept I'm not getting rid of her. I know this has been lenghtly, I'm sorry but you asked a question. I hope maybe you can see this openly on the other side. I can totally see the bs side, even though I feel some are extreme. I can see it though. I posted it in one of my post. The point in matter is, I could take the easy way out but I'm not. I feel xmm is taking the easy road out, which I know alot with disagree with me. Cs is a far cry from being a daddy. But it's the best he or I will do. I'm capable of giving a loving home, and have a desent job. I do believe that he is loosing out on her too. I do feel it's his cross to bear. Bottom line we both made the mistake. We both consented to sex. We both knew I was NOT using bc. We both took that chance....and yes we were both selfish.

Gemini

No apologies needed. I have stated many of times that these situations are diferent for all. No two are alike.

Its very weird for me here. I am a BW whose H has an OC. So I do know and understand the feelings from all here. But then I'm also a Xow with OC. But also different from the OW here. I haven't gone after Xmm and his family. Its him doing it to me.

I found out Xmm was at my fathers this weekend. Talking with him on how to get me to leave my H. My father dislikes my H and would like me to be with Xmm, same with my sister. Xmm visits her often also. I hate this.

JT

I don't believe all man are sob for not wanting to be a parent. Just like all women aren't up to being a mom. Sometimes it does work out for the best for the man not to be involved or the oppisite if the woman walks away. And as Pops stated, there are the double standerds when it come to the prengacy parenting stuff for men /women.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Ow made things impossible....did not want me or son involved...said if H couldn't be a fulltime dad to forget it......we did.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This was what it was like for my H and I with his OC. OW made it clear that in order for him to be a father he had to follow her strict guidlines. The kids and I couldn't be around and wanted him there all the time. She got really pissed and pulled visits when H couldn't work around her timeline. So he stopped visiting. After another yr went by we tried again, this time she let all of us come by. Then she would sit there and rag on H about everything. Plus you could tell H wasn't intreseted in his son. Hell, he's not to intrested in his kids from the marriage.

When it came to my OC, I did let Xmm take the kids to his home with his W there. But first we did visits in a park, Xmm, his W and I with the OC. It went fine for awhile then she started crap. I ended it. I tried again by letting him take the kids to his house with her there. Went fine for about 2 months then the crap started up again. Threats, accusing me of abusing my children. So I stopped it again. So now Xmm picks the kids up at my home, H is here, takes them for awhile and drops them back off. Xmm Wis unstable, she has a history of mental illness (long before the A) overdosed on meds when the kids were there once and threatened to kill them. This is my reason for XMM w not to be around.

M,
For the record...ow was using the pill and oops! told H because he was ending it, she was stressed and forgot! oops! oc!

There are lots of lies to be uncovered in affairs.

That's just it...they come uncovered and all hell breaks loose...eh?

I really feel sorry for ow's c's because they too had a brutal life for these past 3 years with everyone knowing who mom was pregnant with to their dad leaving town. At least he's back in town now as his brother passed and he's taking care of family business....but near his kids again.

Whose to say? Ow's H may move back in with her and they can repair their M too! We hope so. H and I both.

Blessings M....hope you will rise as tall as BeenThereDoneThat... She's an exemplary example of raising a wanted oc by herself with new H!

love
Debi

Crazymum,
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

Thanks for understanding.

I pray for your H and you to become the two people you should be for yourselves first and your c's after....

I think you have a huge plate to eat!

The apathy your H shows you is disgusting and XMM is far worse.

I hope the sophmoric ways of both of these men changes soon.

You married your H...are with your H....can you seek counseling to help you two have a seemingly normal life?

Do try the Harleys. Money is well worth it!

I wish you peace.

love
Debi

Thanks Gemini!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> You married your H...are with your H....can you seek counseling to help you two have a seemingly normal life?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I married my H when I was 18. Our first born was 3 months old and H had already cheated on me.

I am still with H, but we aren't really together. Its hard. He still wants to live the single life. Stay out and party as long and whenever he wants. H has been sleeping on the couch for 2yrs now. I couldn't stand sleeping in the same room with him, alcohol breath. Yuck. Plus that was the time of his last A. He came home asking me to watch OW children so they could go out. As for counseling, H hates it. Tried it before and he thinks there all quacks. He is right and everyone is supposed to follow his lead.

These days he comes home drunk 90% of the time. I get ragged on daily and accused of screwing around daily. Things have been over with Xmm for 3yrs now. H forgets when he is raggin on me that he to made the mistake. What H really wants is me to be like I was before my A, I let him walk all over me then and I refuse to do it again.

I could go on & on about how much of a jerk my H is. But for some reason I still pray that he might grow up one day and realize what he is missing out on with his kids and I. That we could be a happy family. But until then I feel like a single mom raising 5 children. I take of the kids & the house by myself. All H really does is hold the couch up on weekends and makes sure the TV is working. I don't let him drink in the house. The kids don't need that around. I'm doing my damnest to try and make a normal life for the children dispite the mistaks made by their father and I. i am attending church with the kids every sunday and even started bible study. I walk around a giant A on my chest. I need to learn to forgive myself for what I have done.

Sorry for rambeling. I have alot to get over.

<small>[ November 30, 2003, 10:00 PM: Message edited by: Crazymum ]</small>

Oh! Crazymum!

Try Al-anon. Please. For you and the kids.

I married H at 20. Didn't have S until I was 26.

We party sometimes too,but not at the expense of our child.

Why do you stay? I wonder how a human can take so much for so many years? <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

I'll pray for God to show you the path to take. He will show you in his time.

You are too young to not sleep with your husband...It must be so hard.

Hey? How about you doing plan A? You are married and should start telling him naughty things in notes....maybe he'll start to come around a little?

Maybe start by asking him for a date this weekend, Friday night....tell him you really want to meet up later on in your room....then meet him! C'mon girl! If he responds just think of the possibilities.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" />

Meanwhile seek al-anon. I have a friend who goes and it helps YOU!!!!

Sheese...Crazymum.... Peace.

love
Debi

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Why do you stay? I wonder how a human can take so much for so many years? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Lots of peolpe ask why I stay. I'm a SAHM right now. I think at the moment I can put up with his bull**** to be here with the kids fulltime. I grew up in a divorced home, didn't see my father much and my mother was either working or partying. I had to raise my sisters. I see how me being able to be here with my kids has effected them. Able to go to all the school functions, help out with girl scouts and youth group. To be able to know all their friends, and know what they are doing. It means the world to me. Plus it scares me to think how H would be with the kids if we did divorce and he had visitation. I had to quit my job due to H not watching the children.

As for Al-alon, I looked in to it before, just never took the step. I really should, having a alcoholic H, father and mother. Plus a few step-dads. Part of the reason why I don't drink. My two oldest girls attend the meeting right now in Jr high. To bad they didn't have that when I was in school.

As for getting intimate with H. I have a really hard time with it. Its all H wants. He's a sex addict. Plus not knowing where he has been is creepy also. I think if I knew he has been faithful, is trying to be a real husband and father, it would be different. But i just can't now. Also, years of having sex just to please him, especially with the yucky alcohol breath, killed it for me. I think I need counceling for that part.

WOW!
I had no idea how complicated some of these situations are! I was kept in the dark for 10 years about my H's A's with my best friend and OC.
It is good for me to read all of these posts, knowing others opinions and how they dealt with all of the problems resulting from A and OC is so helpful.
Oh my gosh, I am sorry, I just can't believe how much pain we all our going through. It makes me so sad.

Crazymum,
Start with al-anon. It helped my girlfriend (still does) stay married. I just know she finds it life saving....

You are doing all of the c's a good thing. A strong belief in God can save you in the darkest of times. Just believing and knowing HE is always with ALL of us is a life saving experience.

As long as you are doing the best you can with your situation, you will survive.

I do wish you a better life in the future. As I said before, you are too young to just give up on life or love!

love
Debi

You have one tough path to follow. I wish you would go to Al-Anon too. I also have a friend who is benefiting from it immensely.

The pain and upheaval we all live through is so different, yet the same. Pain hurts at our deepest levels, and yet you have been here reaching out to others in their time of need! Can't people be wonderfull!!! I hope you realize that your story and your strength have helped people that you don't even know!

Bless you.