</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by lisaem:
<strong> Hi, everyone
I am new to the board. My husband had an affair two years before we were married. As a result of that affair he has a daughter almost 2 year old. Eventhough I am hurt that this oc was born. I could not think to tell my husband not to have contact with the child. when I first found out about the child i was angry and said that I never wanted this oc to enter my life, but as time went on i changed my mind. The ow let the child come around after she discovered we were married. and then stated she was relocating because she felt her child was in danger being around me because i was biiter she had a girl and my husband and i have 2 sons and i had a tubal and we can not have anymore children. Eventhough all of this i still incourage my husband to try to have some type of relationship with this daughter, but in our case the ow is making things very difficult. she won't answer the door on visitation days. she has told the courts she has gooten married and relocated 1,000 miles away, but she lives less then a mile from our home and we see her on a weekly basis. I beleive the child and the father deserves a chance at a normal relationship, but sometimes when the ow don't get what they were after they tend to make things very difficult. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Your absosulty right. All the adults have to be adults and your ow is not putting her daughters needs first. She has a father who is wiling to be a daddy to her and two brothers who could ask for more? I would do what you have to do to prove she is lying and get your rights back. she sounds crazy to me.

***First thing - I'm a BW without an OC in my situation***

Then you really have nothing to add to this board as you have no point of reference.
Until you have walked in our shoes the best you can hope for is to THINK what you would do in this situation. Until you are faced with this situation you have NO idea what you WOULD do and to claim otherwise is foolish.

Jtigger, don't get your panties in a wad. I am a MOTHER, who has children from a previous marriage and for a number of years had to deal with a father who abandoned them (and yes we were legally married before they were ever conceived). So I happen to think that places me with a great deal of experience in contributing to discussion about what is best for children (not best for me, not best for their father, not best for father's new wife etc).

So if you think you are better than me because your H had an OC with another woman, well you're better than me. You win. You get the prize.

Have you ever had to wrangle with anybody about receiving child support for YOUR children? I don't think the issue of providing love and financial assistance to your own flesh and blood has anything to do with who you are married to.

I don't think I would rebuild a marriage that had an OC in it - that's too much for me to cope with. But I think I would respect my H even less if he abandoned somebody he helped create because it was embarassing or not suitable. I could not force or threaten him to leave a child behind, because that is living in denial. Pretending you don't have that child out that somewhere when you know it is - that's disgusting behaviour and who would want to be married to somebody like that anyway? Hey kids, your daddy broke my heart and he still gets to keep me, your daddy made a child with somebody else and doesn't want to know about them on purpose - I hope you're paying attention to taking responsibility in the future for any children you may have.........

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Still Trying:
<strong>So I happen to think that places me with a great deal of experience in contributing to discussion about what is best for children</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

This is Marriage Builders...where the marriage comes first.

So where does loving and supporting a child you made, not make the marriage between two separate adults come first? Keeping in mind that there is no relationship with the OP. Pretending you don't have a child doesn't make it so.

Why can't you love and support a child, AND put your marriage first?

For me, I don't feel that my children and my marriage are competitors - they are 2 separate issues. The 2 aren't mutually exclusive to me - it's not a matter of choosing one or the other.

So do you think you should abandon the children borne of the marriage because the marriage should come first? How do you fit those children into the marriage?

No contact with OP is fine, it's essential. The affair still happened. The OC still exists. Why does putting the marriage FIRST (and by that you mean removing all possible evidence of an affair happening) change any of that?

I'm curious, really, to understand how a BS can rebuild knowing it's over, but can't rebuild knowing it's over and that a child resulted which they are well aware exists. What is it that a BS is afraid will happen seeing they are so sure the affair is over and that the WS wants only to be married to them?

Still Trying... Can I recommend that you spend more time reading other post. It's more complicated than that. You seem to believe its Black and White. Well, its not. It depends on the people involved.

Some cases its better for the OC and the BIO Parent to not have contact. And in some cases there are ways that both marriage and the OC relationships can stay intact.

There are so many dynamics. ie. Does the child live in the same area? Are the people involve stable? Or are they treating the situations like there is prize to be won?

I have seen so many different stories... that I agree that both parents support the child "equally" but I don't always agree with the concept that the OC MUST have contact. Its not always good for the children involve.

In my case the mother (OW) made it very difficult to have a relationship with the OC. She was very "out of control". We were damn if we do and damn if we don't. She was going to make this difficult. When my H refuse to have any contact with her; she took it upon herself to deny access to the child. So we took steps of getting custody. (Long story) But this was definately good for my H's son. Better our children too.

But it doesn't always work out this way. To have a long drawn out battle over the child its not good...sometimes its better to let go.

With Tony.... I hope he does come back and tell us his side of the story. He's not innocent either but neither is the OW. And if indeed its Twilight's XMM, then I only hope his W has got herself a good lawyer she's going to need it. My personal opinion; following twilights Story... she's very controlling and is unstable. She is so angry with this man that it out shadows what is the best for both her children. She wants to get even with this MM. And she does not care who it hurts. Guarantee this mother is going to fill this poor childs head with garbage about her father and his wife. Scary.

until i see this original "tony46" or whoever post some sort of reply i see no reason for anymore arguementative posts on this thread. i would also suggest the rest of you follow suit.
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

To the original poster and his question (if you're even real??)...

I, BW, have no problem with an older OC contacting H/us. No Contact was never because of the OC, only the XOW. (Now, if OC contacts us and acts as strange as her mother...! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> )

However, the poster should be in joint agreement w/his spouse on this topic. That's a healthy marriage.

Wiz, well you sound like a resonable person who has put the welfare of all children (irrespective of parentage) ahead of personality disputes, and I take my hat off to you. I don't think I would be able to do that. You should be quite proud of yourself.

Unfortunately, none of us can force parents to take emotional care of their children, and the only thing that can be enforced is financial responsibility. I agree entirely with you that if somebody doesn't want to voluntarily be a part of a child's life, then that child is probably better off not being in that person's presence.

I see many stories where the child was willingly created, only to have the man turn an interesting shade of puce when reality hits. The fantasy of love and babies and making something together is all well and good, and I too don't understand why somebody would willingly get involved with somebody who has not made any measureable attempt (lodge divorce papers, move out of the house, draw up a parenting agreement for existing children, introduce you as his partner to the world etc) to indicate that a former relationship is over first before bringing another human being into the situation. Seems like we all have the best of intentions AFTER the baby is born, but don't really plan out the details BEFORE it is conceived......This is true for many married couples, but absolutely true for people in affairs. I mean, what were they thinking?

We can all debate forever the wisdom (or lack thereof) of everybody involved in an affair, but the innocent party is a baby who did not ask to be brought into this situation. What does that baby deserve and what is that baby owed by it's parents and creators?

I guess I don't have to be in love with the father of my children, to love THEM, to provide for THEM and to sacrifice for THEM. Giving love and other opportunities (whether that be financial or time) are within most people's capabilities - it's not a rare gift that is bestowed upon only a few of us. As functioning adults, we are all capable to provide that for our children. For couples who have had "surprise" babies, do you love those babies less than the planned siblings?

I can understand lots of different things, but it doesn't necessarily make them right. Abandoning a child because it is an embarassment or shameful (and I understand that) is not the example I would like to teach my children about their responsibilities towards any human lives they create. Is that what we would tell our children to do if it ever happened to them? "Well Johnny, walk away, that child you made isn't legitimate and therefore not worth a single cent you earn".

Women have fought long and hard to find a way to ensure that men cannot walk away from their responsibility, and yet that's exactly what we expect them to do if it doesn't fit in with our circumstances.............

I think the issue is more about the wife's fears (and I can understand that) and hence her forcing him to choose her or the child and possibly threatening custody/visitation of existing children if he doesn't comply. Wives can be just as nasty and vindictive and use children to make a point. Is it a power struggle? Is it a control thing? If the H complies, how does that make the wife feel afterwards that she emotionally blackmailed somebody into abandoning a child out of fear of losing other children?

It takes a strong woman to relinquish control and sit back to wait and watch what happens, and be confident in the decision her H has made to stay with her.

I don't think the child should be punished for the gamble it's parents were willing to take. The father of the baby gave his wife's consent and agreed to gamble his other children's financial stability - that is not the fault of the resulting baby. It wouldn't be so bad if only the man were to be penalised, unfortunately, he drags everybody through the mud with him.

***Women have fought long and hard to find a way to ensure that men cannot walk away from their responsibility***

Actually, women have fought long and hard for reproductive equality. We still have not achieved that goal, we now have reproductive superiority.

Perhaps this post was started by a person who is simply looking to gain some attention?

if it was my xMM...then he has been out of town since his first post and not back until today. Perhaps that is why he has not responded. I am leaving. This is his place and I have no desire to share it with him.

Thanks to all who have helped me in the past. Good luck and peace to all of you!

Wiz...you know not of what you speak but I wish you well too.

Happy Holidays

<small>[ December 22, 2003, 11:05 AM: Message edited by: twilight ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Still Trying:
<strong>
Unfortunately, none of us can force parents to take emotional care of their children, and the only thing that can be enforced is financial responsibility. I agree entirely with you that if somebody doesn't want to voluntarily be a part of a child's life, then that child is probably better off not being in that person's presence.

I see many stories where the child was willingly created, only to have the man turn an interesting shade of puce when reality hits. The fantasy of love and babies and making something together is all well and good, and I too don't understand why somebody would willingly get involved with somebody who has not made any measureable attempt (lodge divorce papers, move out of the house, draw up a parenting agreement for existing children, introduce you as his partner to the world etc) to indicate that a former relationship is over first before bringing another human being into the situation. Seems like we all have the best of intentions AFTER the baby is born, but don't really plan out the details BEFORE it is conceived......This is true for many married couples, but absolutely true for people in affairs. I mean, what were they thinking?

We can all debate forever the wisdom (or lack thereof) of everybody involved in an affair, but the innocent party is a baby who did not ask to be brought into this situation. What does that baby deserve and what is that baby owed by it's parents and creators?

I guess I don't have to be in love with the father of my children, to love THEM, to provide for THEM and to sacrifice for THEM. Giving love and other opportunities (whether that be financial or time) are within most people's capabilities - it's not a rare gift that is bestowed upon only a few of us. As functioning adults, we are all capable to provide that for our children. For couples who have had "surprise" babies, do you love those babies less than the planned siblings?

I can understand lots of different things, but it doesn't necessarily make them right. Abandoning a child because it is an embarassment or shameful (and I understand that) is not the example I would like to teach my children about their responsibilities towards any human lives they create. Is that what we would tell our children to do if it ever happened to them? "Well Johnny, walk away, that child you made isn't legitimate and therefore not worth a single cent you earn".

Women have fought long and hard to find a way to ensure that men cannot walk away from their responsibility, and yet that's exactly what we expect them to do if it doesn't fit in with our circumstances.............

I think the issue is more about the wife's fears (and I can understand that) and hence her forcing him to choose her or the child and possibly threatening custody/visitation of existing children if he doesn't comply. Wives can be just as nasty and vindictive and use children to make a point. Is it a power struggle? Is it a control thing? If the H complies, how does that make the wife feel afterwards that she emotionally blackmailed somebody into abandoning a child out of fear of losing other children?

It takes a strong woman to relinquish control and sit back to wait and watch what happens, and be confident in the decision her H has made to stay with her.

I don't think the child should be punished for the gamble it's parents were willing to take. The father of the baby gave his wife's consent and agreed to gamble his other children's financial stability - that is not the fault of the resulting baby. It wouldn't be so bad if only the man were to be penalised, unfortunately, he drags everybody through the mud with him. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This has all been debated very well on another thread. You mentioned you did not have an OC in your life right? So it is very easy to try and see things so simplistically and very easy to spout off about what people should do. If every one was willing and able to do what they should do then there would never have been an A or OC in the 1st place.

MM do not choose NC because some BS is forcing them to choose that. It's not even THAT simple. Many things and people are considered when these kind of decisions have to be made. Every situation and family is unique so you/we can't simplistically decide what is best for everyone, only the MM & BS can make that decision and I don't believe it is made lightly.

I'm starting to think that "Tony" might have been a plant from the other board (because we haven't heard anything from him since his first post, nor has he responded to any of the replies to him) Maybe someone from TOW wants to start some high drama or stir things up due to the incredible amount of brand new "Junior" members suddenly jumping on the band wagon ramrodding their perspectives...like a big "tell off" session, or a soap box to mouth off their viewpoints. I can't say for sure...just how it looks to me.

I've noticed that there are a considerable amount of angry and bitter posts on the other board where it is often stated in the beginning..."I don't mean to start a board war, but..." that I am beginning to think this is exactly what they are trying to do...bait us. Thankfully, no one has repsonded, bit or got sucked into any of the silliness; because it is just that. Nonsense.

I don't believe this thread is authentic and there is a lot of overreacting going on over on the other side with deleted posts.

It's interesting to go over there and check up on the threads once in a while since they are here constantly and we need to monitor the absurdities so we don't waste time with threads like these.

So, everyone, have a very Merry Christmas and a wonderful and prosperous and healthy and happy New Year in recovery.

<small>[ December 22, 2003, 02:23 PM: Message edited by: catnip ]</small>

Dear Lord I do not even know where to start.

First off this twilight is NOT repeat NOT my former other woman. I went into her view recent posts and read some of her most recent posts.

The thread below told me all I needed to know.

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=35;t=003992;p=1#000004

The OC in my case was not born in August. I also have not broken NC much less made any threats. All communications go through the lawyers and a PO Box. There is also quite a few other facts that don't match.

As far as the whole NC thing goes I think ktbunch said it best when she said this decision was not made lightly. My wife never made any threats about taking the kids away. Take my word for it it really is in the best interest of everybody that I am not in OC's life.

My wife says she does not know how she would react if the OC contacted me at some point in the future. That is why I wanted feedback. We are also trying to decide when/if we should tell our own kids about OC. I also wanted to clarify I don't plan on droping into the child's life when its convenient for me. I don't plan to make contact at all. I also don't think I have the heart to reject her should she come looking for answers.

ember-

I would like to hear the reasons your husband gave for hanging up on his 19 year old OC. I don't think I could do it.

Catnip...the deleting is my fault...I swear I thought it was him and I didn't want him to read what I was feeling. So if there was any over-reacting, it is mine. I found the junoir member thing odd as well, especially since some of them claim to know my story rather well. If it is someone trying to stir things up, I don't think it is who you suspect, nor do I think it is anyone from here. I am still nervous about this whole thing...certain thing are just too coincidental for my taste.

ah well...Happy holidays all the same.

I do not want my husband to choose between me and the oc. If he wants that in life and I can't handle it, then I move on. (I have not said as much to my h as 1) so far he is adament about not having anything to do with the child and 2) I don't want to put on added pressure in what he is going through) I don't want the burden of making him choose. I have enough to handle without the guilt of denying him interaction with the oc.

****edited***** by Justuss******

WITH a "reminder"

MB policy...

"You agree, through your use of this service, that you will not use this BB to post any material which is knowingly false and/or defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, or otherwise violative of any law."

THIS is a Marriage Builders SUPPORT board.

Are you buillding or rebuilding your marriage or supplying support to those members here that are attempting to do so?

<small>[ December 22, 2003, 09:29 PM: Message edited by: Justuss ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by ImNotyou:
<strong> ***edited by Justuss***

Sorry. I had to remove the quote by INY It was just alittle too snide & nasty for a "guest" on this forum. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">INY

You are so cute when you're mad!

Of course I have both TOW and MB saved on my computer! Obviously, YOU do too! I'd be an idiot not to since some people are constantly trying to push buttons and start wars. This thread looked like one of them as well as the sister post regarding this thread over on TOW. Wouldn't it be foolish NOT to save it under Favorites when you have to monitor at least weekly to "take the pulse"? I think it is very important to read your threads over there and to assess the tide...forewarned is forearmed. After all, I know the TOW ladies have obviously saved MB on their computers as well from all the references.

It just makes good sense, INY...now take a deep breath, smoke a cigarette or have a beer and relax. I could have so much fun with you...you're so easy to tweak!

Hahaha

Catnip =^^=

PS I can't find the quote where I am directing people over there to over to TOW...could you help me out here? Thanks. Why can't you just be nice and respectful like Twilight and the others that come here?

<small>[ December 22, 2003, 09:34 PM: Message edited by: Justuss ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by twilight:
<strong> Catnip...the deleting is my fault...I swear I thought it was him and I didn't want him to read what I was feeling. So if there was any over-reacting, it is mine. I found the junoir member thing odd as well, especially since some of them claim to know my story rather well. If it is someone trying to stir things up, I don't think it is who you suspect, nor do I think it is anyone from here. I am still nervous about this whole thing...certain thing are just too coincidental for my taste.

ah well...Happy holidays all the same. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Not to worry, Twilight...Tony showed up and posted so we can all relax. I can see where you would get paranoid, however, there were certainly a lot of "newbies' no one had ever heard of before coming out of the woodwork on this and it seemed weird and I was suspicious that this was some kind of false thread and I didn't want to see anyone waste their time on a lunker.

Merry Christmas to you, too...