I wanted to discuss your last post to Xray without cluttering up his thread.

You said:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Please bear in mind, this site is fantastic. Its positive, pro-marriage. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I agree. On of the best aspects of the MarriageBuilder philosophy is that it flies in the face of typical "reactionary" reflexes when confronting an affair, with a well-thought-out and researched "Plan" to attempt to recover a marriage.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">However, I do think people tend to abuse plan A/B and make it into something it isn't.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I agree here too---this is often a process of having people give advice on stuff they don't understand. Do you understand what Plan A and Plan B is about? The reason that I ask is that I know very little about your story, other than you moved rather quickly from "d-day" to divorce (3 months). Have you counseled with the Harley's? The reason that I ask these questions is that I really haven't seen Xray get bad Plan A/B advice here (although I see plenty of this bad Plan A/B advice on other threads). Plan A and B are used to negotiate the end of an active affair. I have used both successfully, guided by Steve Harley, so I feel comfortable in saying that most of the advice on this thread has been pretty solid.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I have a good idea what x-ray's dealing with. His situation is one that REQUIRES cynical appraisal. He does NOT have time to figure out his feelings.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm sorry that you do have an idea of what Xray is dealing with. I too, have lived through the same situation---but in my case, we are successfully reconciled and in a recovered marriage. I think this situation is one in which a professional, detached appraisal is needed---you don't want to let your feelings (emotions) rule your decisions in times like this. They will lead you down the path that almost everyone else takes (and that usually ends in divorce). Cynical isn't needed (it's an emotion).

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Look, his wife has maneuvered him into about the worst possible position. Does anyone really think OM will be out of the picture after she has his child?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I doubt his wife has maneuvered anything here. She got caught in some really stupid, selfish behaviors. It could be entirely possible that the OM would be completely out of his life (there are ways to ensure that, <evil laugh>). The bottom line is that it's next to impossible for us to appraise that---she needs to spend some time getting counseled by someone who has the marriage's interest (and Xrays) in mind.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">IMO a woman of character would have terminated the pregnancy, confessed the affair, and then would have wanted to work on marriage. Everyone makes mistakes, but this is a whopper of a mistake. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Agreed that this is about the largest magnitude mistake that one can make in a marriage. The issue of character is really irrelevant here---people in affairs act like addicts. In my situation my wife at this point was very similar to Xrays: couldn't imagine life without OM, didn't want the marriage, hadn't confessed, wasn't repentant. That may come in time. Xray needs a plan, and he needs a coach.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She will NOT give the kid up for adoption. If she were to terminate the pregnancy at this point, she'll blame you and never forgive you for it. Then you'll have a whole new set of problems/issues and possibly addiction issues in the future. You may as well have that swishy mars/venus guy move in and sleep on the sofa.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">We don't know what Xray's wife will and will not do. Wayward spouses aren't known for having very clear views or telling truth at this point in an affair. Xray should take everything his wife says (or doesn't say) as suspect. If he's interested in his marriage, he needs to be moving forward with a plan that takes that into account (while still moving forward with a legal plan that protects him). No one wants to see Xray end up with a failed marriage and child support. But a lawyer will be able to ensure that this does not happen. And frankly, there is little legally that you can do until the child is born (and paternity claims can be filed). This time could be used to Xrays benefit, if he truly wants the marriage.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She's put you in a lose/lose situation. My best advice is to act decisively, that's the luxury of not having kids to worry about.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">When I discovered my wife's pregnancy from the OM, I realized that it provided an OPPORTUNITY. Xray isn't in a lose/lose here---he has an opportunity to reach out to his wife with compassion and attempt to save a failing marriage. He may not be successful in keeping his marriage together, but by going through the process with a professional, I will pretty much guarantee that he will feel better about himself and what he did AFTER he heals (that's going to take a year or two). I've given advice to dozens of couples in this situation (and hundreds suffering through infidelity), and I have yet to have one of them tell me that they were sorry that they tried.

The advice we've been giving Xray is "decisive"---but not hasty. There's a difference.

lurking24---I hope you hang around here and continue to participate. But I'd also like to see you participate as much as possible in the framework of the MB advice. And I rarely single out new board members with this type of (unsolicited---sorry <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ) advice---I have a hunch that you have a lot to add, and I'd like to see you do it productively.

I'm 33, married 4 years, no kids.

I'd spent the last two years working full time and attending grad school. Last january my wife got a sort of promotion where she'd have to spend a week each month in another city with her boss. This was the first thing I failed to notice, she didn't get a raise with the travel and wasn't really making much money.

Last june. I'm done with school, excited about the future, wife starts having morning sickness announces pregnancy. I'm happy she isn't.

Wife's best freind drops by while wife out of town. Wife's best freind and I have a really bizarre conversion that ends with her sobbing and leaving abruptly. I think nothing of it for a few hours, then the message hits and I start vomitting.

Open her yahoo account. *in retrospect I should have gotten a good night's sleep and eaten a good meal prior*. I find out wife had at least a six month ea and a short pa. I rip house apart and find a box of affair memorabilia.

There was a HUGE amount of stuff in this box. Letters, cards, poems, songs. They had sex 4 times, there was probably 7 or 8 pounds of paperwork per sexual encounter, more like a part-time job than an affair.

At this point I confirmed the affair and noted a paternity issue regarding time frame.

Bear in mind I took everything I'd uncovered at face value. All the 'I love you's' etc. I couldn't process everything, including the fact that my ex-wife wanted the romance but didn't want the physical contact until he started really pressuring her.

I went to my mom's house and broke down. I took the rest of the week off work and saw a therapist and a lawyer. Wife was frantically trying to reach me but I felt I needed space. Based on advice and the fact that at some point I wanted to sleep and eat again, I called wife that friday and informed her I'd found out and was divorcing her. I told her we'd sort the paternity issue out separately at the appropraiate time.

Wife...assaulted her boss. Both were fired. OM was close to 50, married with 4 kids.

Spent another two weeks with her pleading to stay together (I didn't), I was living with mom by then and we had limited contact. Wife agreed to a quick divorce and decided to terminate the pregnancy ( our last act as a married couple).

There you have it. I've never felt comfortable sharing it as I was harsh and I feel my overall situation was...easier than what others here deal with (regarding kids and divorce).

I regret not being a better husband and have learned a great deal since. I don't regret divorcing her. Now I just want to have a firm grasp of what happened, I DO NOT want to be one of these people who leaves one disaster to start another (in other words, I want to fully lay my first marriage to rest without jumping into a disastrous second marriage like a lot of people do).

My ex and I both agreed our marriage was far from being a bad marriage. The problem was that her emotional needs and my ability to meet them were just too far apart.

Regarding x-ray.

This guy laid out his boundaries, reasonable boundaries. He drew his line in the sand. If his wife has other ideas, THERE'S NOTHING WRONG WITH CLOSING RANKS AROUND THIS GUY.

Paternity issues, imo, change the situation enormously. I respect your decision to stay with your wife K. In my case I just couldn't get past all the 'what ifs'.

I hope things work out for you (and everybody for that matter).

Lurking,

Your story is like many here very sad. I think you are very wise to address your issues remaining from the marriage. You are also correct that if they aren't addressed they are often carried into another marriage.

Let me ask you a question. If you had it all to do over what would you do differently? Do you still have any contact with exW? What is her take on all of this? Would she have done things differently? I ask these questions because one can often learn valuable information from the other party even if the other party is NOT someone you want to be with.

Whatever happens in your life, I hope that your past experience in marriage will offer you postive lessons for the future.

God Bless,

JL