Inspiring post Catnip. I hope things continue to get better for you and your H.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Still Trying:
<strong> N/c is a crock for the child.

=^^= NC is unhealthy for the child and does not serve the child if the WS is unhealthy himself (emotionally, physically or spiritually) and cannot offer anything to OC for financial reasons, geographical or distance reasons, marriage reasons or a myriad of other reasons that are particular to each and everyone's particular situation.

What is really a crock is discussing Contact vs No Contact here on Marriage Builders with Betrayeds who will rarely, if ever, agree with you since they are coming from and entirely different perspective and the OC is a source of horrendous pain in the early months after D-day. I suggest you take up the Contact vs No Contact issue with your former MM and his wife.

ST: It may make perfect sense to the WS, BS, and OW. But is it RIGHT for the child?

=^^= Maybe not...but then again, maybe it IS...depending on the state of the WS and the marital recovery.

ST: Jenny seems to think this thread is about her,

=^^= No she doesn't. And before you go beating up on Jenny, I should tell you that she has been here longer than I have and she has been successful in rebuilding her marraige after a huge double betrayal.


ST: Every other poster seems to be able to state their views and share their experience without being nasty. You COULD have done that too.

=^^= Perhaps she could have but you might have pushed a button. Let it go and try not to take offense. This topic is getting out of hand and probably should close since it is taking on some weird segways.

ST: Did you have the best of intentions towards your H's OC?

=^^= You know, I don't think it is the place of the Betrayed to go out of their way to insure "good intentions" because I feel the OW should be accomodating to the BW because she owes her something for intruding in her life if she knew the man was married...but then, that's just my POV and probably one that is not shared by many. I know Jenny pretty well by now and she would never have ill intent towards OC and that is all anyone can realistically hope to have under these difficult circumstances.


ST: It's a shame their father didn't believe so strongly about that while he was spending family money and family time with OW. Why was he so willing to jeopardise his children's future?? Leaving out one-night stands, most of these MM devote months and years to jeopardising their children's future. They plan, they lie to achieve it, they plot about "when" they are going to leave their families, but alas when OC enters the picture, suddenly the wife and children are IMPORTANT. The men are so full of **** - but we'll argue forever that they are only thinking of what's best for their children. Well, imo, they continue to be liars, because the only person benefitting is themselves. They HAVE hurt the wife and children, they HAVE hurt the OW and OC, and carrying out that planned hurt didn't stop them from doing it, so to use "hurt" as the reason for n/c is justification at it's finest.

=^^= You are right on nearly every point you have just made except for one...the last point where you say that they use that hurt for an excuse/justification for NC. I believe that when a cheater is engaged in cheating, all they are thinking is how exciting it is to live a double life and to get their ego fluffed by the attentions of another woman. Making empty promises and declarations of love and making plans are pure fantasy and just plain fun for them. When reality hits, it hits hard. When the OW announces the pregnancy, she throws ice cold water on the foggy fantasy and lover boy wakes up to the horror and realization that the A is a disaster and too much is at stake. As long as he can live the illusion that this is just fun and games and it can be called off at any time, he wants to keep it going because it serves him. When something as serious as an unplanned pregnancy happens with a woman who is not his wife, then the entire game shatters and becomes a huge problem. He knows his marriage is in serious jeopardy, he knows something of this magnitude is going to hurt his children, that anyone finding out about this horrible situation will lose all respect for him and he will look like an idiot...a careless idiot. Suddenly, the A isn't worth it anymore and there isn't anything he wants more than his wife and chidlren. But now he has to sit down to a banquet of consequences for his behavior. He feels and looks like a fool, he is remorseful and contrite. He's scared and with good reason. But, in most cases he had a willing accomplice that knew his marital status and was pretty stupid and selfish herself. The huge price to pay is No Contact because that is probably the ONLY thing the Betrayed Spouse will even consider for reconciliation to happen...so he has to make a choice and 90% of the time, that choice will be his wife and chidlren.

ST: It hurts to know that you are married to a lying sack of ****, but we all better get used to it. We know what they are capable of and stay anyway.

=^^= Yeah. True. We do stay but we kind of have to if we have a complicated and long involved history and children together. There is too much at stake to just walk away from so much (especially if your husband is NOT a serial cheater) because of someone who is a stranger to us intruded into our lives...OC or no OC.
The irony of an A as opposed to an A with and OC is that people in A's usually stay in them much longer and stay fogged in longer if there is nothing traumatic to snap them out of it ...like an OC. Nothing snaps someone out of their fantasy faster than an OC. I think that is why pregnancy is the death knell to the OW...she gains a kid but loses the lover.

ST: If all adults DID do the right thing - that includes WS and OW - is there anybody who thinks n/c is still BEST FOR THE CHILD?

=^^= Someday I would like some OW's to tell me what exactly they expect from WS's and their BW's other than financial support. What does an OW mean when they say they want "contact" for their OC? What more do they expect from us? I'm not trying to be a smart [censored]...I truly want to know what more they want besides financial? Family dinners with the grandparents and the Betrayeds on Sundays? The OC and the BC having sleep overs regardless of what the BC's want? There are so many other people to consider other than OC or what the OW wants....so much to consider.

ST: That there is a possiblity for an OC means that our husbands don't/didn't care about the repurcussions on our children - THEIR children.

=^^= Sadly, I don't think most men even worry about or think about the possibility of an OC. They are just in it for the ego fluffing and good times. Most probably figure women today know how to prevent pregnancy and that theya re responsible for their bodies and to keep themselves from getting pregnant in the first place. It really is the woman's responsiblity to keep herself from getting pregnant. It IS her body, after all. Unless a woman lives in a cave away from modern civilization, there is no excuse for a "possiblity of pregnancy".

ST: But somehow, the OW is supposed to take greater care of his children than him............

=^^= Well, yeah, cause she's the mother and the primary caregiver and he is otherwise engaged in a marriage to someone else.

ST: If a parent lives a great distance away, then costs can be SHARED.

=^^= Tell our OW that...she'll laugh in your face. She doesn't want us near her or the OC...she just wants the cash, please.


ST: I would be interested to hear how you think divorced parents (let's say they divorced very shortly after birth) should handle custody of that child.

=^^= There is a world of difference between a child of divorced parents and an OC simply because there was probably a unanimous consensus to have a child in the first place, then the bonding, then the grandparent involvement, shared history, etc. When an OC is born of an affair, that means that there is a reluctant Betrayed Spouse somewhere suffering that child's existence in the beginning and it takes time to digest this horrendous news and much thought needs to be given to whether or not the marriage can survive contact. Anyway, I think we should close this thread because I don't think OW's should be discussing and debating Contact vs No Contact on MB with Betrayeds who have such a difficult time even facing the issue of an OC...very painful. This issue should be discusssed with the Waywards.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

I AM a BW, not an OW. Why on earth did you think I was an OW??????

You misunderstood my point about OW having to be more responsible to the MM's children THAN the MM himself. They're his children (from the marriage), so why should a stranger take them into consideration more than their own father???

needtomoveon,
My H didn't tell me for over 3 months of OW being pregnant. He said after that he knew it would be over between us and he held off until he couldn't take it any longer.

Ow was my friend. During that time I'd run into her and her Mom at the grocery store and OW would kind of get away from having to say hello to me. Her Mom didn't know as she was/is married!

Meanwhile she filed for divorce and her H fled to Florida. When I asked my H what had happened to them, he said he didn't know... We had stopped going out socially too... all that made me feel strange but I didn't know why either.

Here at home, H wasn't sleeping, he was seemingly weepy-eyed with me when I'd kiss him goodmorning or goodnight. One time he held me and said how sweet I was and why did I put up with him....before d-day! I was confused for a long time.

Our stories are so similar being all of us were married. One exception, I knew OW. I just thought I'd tell you what went on before d-day to let you think about what WS do before disclosing the A.

At that Starbucks, why didn't you go up to him to say hello? It's spineless that he didn't tell you hello yet you didn't say anything either.

Your H allowing you to remain on his insurance is compassionate. I remember you saying that before. We paid for 1/2 OW's hospital bill as her H didn't do a thing for her at that time.

Whether his wife finds out by him (preferable), or by "mail", she's going to know....so sooner or later his bigger problems will begin and he is avoiding that big time with good reason, don't you think? He may still be shell shocked or like my H told me, he thought at first OW would abort and was hoping she would. (Not meant to start another war but telling what went on in our situation).

So there you have it. It may be what he's going through now.

Take it easy. Hope this helped.

love
Debi

You know.....there are opinions that every man SHOULD have C with a child he donated sperm for....okay whatever...then there are opinions that a MM should NOT have C w/ an OC from A (mine) okay whatever.....

then someone will offer their opinion based on experience that they tried C and OW was unreasonable ect and then C ended and then it's ok because "at least you tried".

HELLO....how many people have to TRY and devatstate their entire family "trying" and then it's okay to have NC? Why can't you just leave the people ALONE who AVOID trying because they are wise enough, after hearing about enough "failed tryings", to even risk hurting thier families?

Why even risk it?

Yes, MM took risks JUST AS OW risked producing a fatherless child. AFTERWARDS decisions and choices have to be made and everyone has consequences. NO ONE gets off free, NOT EVEN THE "INNOCENT".

Just stop whining about the choices that are made. The choice is made, be done with it.

"No one" wants to hear about how a choice for C hurts BC, but then why do we all HAVE to hear about how NC hurts OC. WE KNOW. It's a choice. We KNOW it hurts, BS have hurt the most and they are also INNOCENT. WE KNOW IT HURTS but that is life. It is a choice that was made and now EVERYONE has to live w/ it!

Gemini very good point. Why did I not go to him? Well, when he looked away I just thought You [censored] you can't even look me in the eye. And at the time I just thought it best to wait on the other side to get my coffee. When I left and really a day or two later was when I thought geez I should of gone over and talked to him. But it was to late then. I could see xmm doing the same thing with his wife. If they are even at that point yet. Not to start a board war but she is not very affection etc. Never has been. and yes, I know her, but we were never friends. They have always had two sets of friends in there marriage life. Your right about when she finds out and although I'm not looking forward to that day, I feel that it's the only way it will make him do what he needs to do even if it's a fight through an attorney. Mine is already set to go. Yes your right about my stbxh. Although as soon as I told him he filed so he would not have to pay for xmm baby. Granted he was right there. He had told me that if xmm comes forward he would keep me on but xmm has not. stbxh has settled down some though when I got my own attorney. He has realized that I have not taken from him since day one of seperation what I'm really entitled to and he has been better off as things are. I think it will be easier for me to get on with my life when all this is behind me. I do want a life and just feel that I can't bring someone else into it with all this crap not being settled. He on the other hand is living life as if non of this has happened. To be honest that does make me upset. I can't explain it, and it's not a vengenful thing, it's just that I'm stuck in limbo here and he's not. I've had enough class to not start problems and make havak in his family life and he has gone out of his way to make sure nothing comes easy for me. I also know that all decisions are his, and his wife has nothing to do with them. That is a good thing. If he would of done all this after she knew I would of blamed her. I know in my heart that men make there choices. They can tell there wives no, and they don't......we all make our choices. I know you probally did not want to hear me say that I would of blamed her, but it's the truth and at least my honest about it. To be honest, I think in some ways that if this would of never happened to me I'd still be with xmm and in the fog. I'd be hanging on to a pipe dream and getting into it deeper. In some ways I think God needed a huge boulder to fall on me to wake me up. I use to think he was the best thing on earth. That every word he said was the God's honest truth. Even with the lies I caught him in.....go figure. Thanks Gemini it was insightful.

Still Trying:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">N/c is a crock for the child.

It may make perfect sense to the WS, BS, and OW. But is it RIGHT for the child?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am a man raising my wife's OC. He will be five (tomorrow). He has never had contact with his biological father. His biological father pays us no support. This child is loved and cherished in an intact two-parent home, with two other half-siblings.

Is this right for this child? It seems to work pretty well. Is it perfect? Perhaps not. But it is certainly not a crock. No Contact is probably less harmful to a child, in the end, then a divorce would be. No Contact can allow opportunities for the child and mother---you seem to focus solely on the losses. Instead of whining and complaining: ask yourself "How can I ensure the best outcome for my child (my family), out of this less than ideal situation?"

To those debating the C vs NC issue with StillTrying..

Keep in mind she DOES NOT HAVE an OC in her life.

She is BW visiting the P/C forum and basing her opinion and criticisims on how she would feel if she did.

And we ALL know what happens to those strong opinions and convictions when you are actually walking in those shoes.

I am an abandoned child myself. I know what the lifelong repurcussions of that are and the emotional damage it has caused me. I am always wanting to expand my world and listen to the opinions and experiences of people who are in a situation I am not in. Is that not a good thing? I am always questioning and searching in the hope of finding understanding.

Why can't the people who have n/c with an OC in their life ask me what I have experienced, why can't they take my adult views as being valid and listen to somebody who struggles with feelings of worth and value because of what adults did to her when she was too young to have a voice of her own? I'm your OC 30+ years in the future - why not ask me and learn and possibly save yourself regret and guilt?

I am also wanting to learn why an OC devastates the children from the marriage. I am a firm believer of children taking their lead from adults and are guided by their opinions and values. The financial side is a negative, but I don't see how it is "devastating", anymore than if another sibling is born unexpectedly. I don't see how a 3 year old or a 5 year old could care less about knowing they have another brother or sister in their lives. I have children from different marriages (they all live with me), but they don't consider themselves to be anything but siblings. My youngest one has always been completely comfortable with referring to my other childrens' father as "their Dad", she has not asked why they have a different father, she just accepts it. It was the WS who devastated the marriage, not the OC. The damage is done.

I think about my best girlfriend's children, say, - if something were to happen to her I would take them in a heartbeat. They aren't mine and technically and legally I'm not responsible. I didn't plan them in my life whatsoever.

Is it that you don't want to know that you have the power to help shape the future of your OC's life?

K, I admire you for the task you have taken on. Like I said before (not sure if it was this thread or another) - the people who did love me (as you are loving the child in your life) could not fill the void in my life that was of somebody elses doing. They provided, they loved, but there was a sadness inside of me always that I was worthless to somebody.

If nothing else, this thread is helping me to put some thoughts into words.

ST, I don't know if this helps, but.......xmm in my case is adoptive. We had many talks on the subject. He has two very loving parents that brought him up and he is very close to. He has always felt an abodment though towards his birth parents. He even met his birth mom a few years ago. She would not tell him one thing about his b-dad. He held high power or I think he's minister to be honest I get confussed, anyway....when I became pregnant and xmm said he wanted n/c with this child we talked about that a little I mean very little. He made the comment to me that his birth parents never came knocking on his door. I told him yeah, and you have these hang ups over it too....and his reply was oh well. So for whatever it's worth, it's just how people handle there own situation and feel they need to do it. I'm sorry that you have such hard feelings over it. I hope that I can raise my daughter to cope with and not have some of the hangups that you and xmm have.
Oh yeah more thing....I told xmm that he was following in his fathers' footsteps. That he needs to do something to break that chain. Some may think that is stupid to say, but I believe it. I know I'm going to do what I can do to break the chain from my part of it.

<small>[ December 28, 2003, 07:26 PM: Message edited by: needtomoveon ]</small>

needtomoveon,
Are you saying your H will not keep you covered by his insurance for baby's birth? When is that?

I understand you thinking MM wife would be the wrath of your bewilderment on how MM has treated you , but the fact she does not know proves my point on how MM react to a pregnant mistress....usually...the fantasy of love and happiness dissolves with a pregnancy.... it may be hard to read... and I know I'd be immensely hurt to read it...but it is usually true.

No matter how many years...no matter what he may have said...and affection may be his only complaint...and you filled that need....he still will be with his wife if she wants him back.

His wife will fill that affection need rather quickly.

He will then revel in her affection as he first did with you. The difference being is he wished it were her from the beginning...now that it is...his fulfillments will be appeased and they will struggle together to do what it takes to mend the damages leaving you all the way out on your own.

It is sad the way they lie those WS!

They want what they need and get it for a period of time, meanwhile, the op falls in love and falls hard. WS then at some time wakes up and is terrified of what he has done...I'm taking it from the mans mouth NTMO, he then wants out at all cost....back to normal...please forgive me...etc...

It takes enormous amounts of time for that to occur. Many sleepless nights and many tears for us also. The affair is one thing and quite enough thankyou.....then add a child and wham!!!! it is a mountain that is so hard to climb, even with WS help...it is almost inconcievable ... a bullet to the heart...that another woman could have, would have ,your husbands child...and he wants FORGIVENESS????

Now this part goes to StillTrying also...

So now we have N/C... and that child is you ...maybe as a young one you will accept an oc....when you grow, don't you think when you "get it" on the CIRCUMSTANCES of oc, you will come to your own conclusions? You will know right from wrong by then. You discover one of your parents made a baby outside of their RELATIONSHIP... would you want that for yourself? For your children? IT IS WRONG. and as KT put it, we all suffer the fallout.

I'd hate to think K is investing his love and life to the oc and the oc will still grow up missing something...then guess what ST? WE ALL WILL FOREVER "MISS" SOMETHING!!!

We can only go on as best we know how. I pray daily for God to show me his way and I still falter a lot....but I know God understands me and all of us here!

HE has shown me so much with my H and I.

Someday if you all have q's I promise to have my H at my side to answer you as he has me.

His heart aches for oc... not that he'd try to include oc....just hates what he did to us as much as what he did to produce oc! Incredible?

No! He wants him and I to be at peace. Our son to be at peace. Oc to be at peace... Heck...ow to find peace and leave us alone.... NTMO, he has a heart....only to save his marriage it may not include what you need or want or feel.

Now I hope your H will allow you the insurance to have the baby.

BTW why would he let you off easy? He considered you to be "his woman" and you've sacrificed your H for a man who will never accomadate you... What do you expect right now? What have you done to begin to help HIM heal?

Nothing? Only thinking of you and Jr?

Something to think about...we all have feelings...we all bleed when cut....some deeper than others...

love
Debi

NTMO OW used the "don't let baby grow up without a daddy, you know how I felt" and it was guilt she was using on him as her Dad died when she was 8 and I heard all about it, and her hurt, and her this, and her that,..... has nothing or maybe something to do with why these things happen....

<small>[ December 28, 2003, 08:07 PM: Message edited by: gemini1 ]</small>

Gemeni, I totally agree with what you said about the fantacy etc. I totally see that. That is why I said I am so glad he (xmm) did this before his wife ever knew, that way I could NOT blame her. It it all his doing. It may of hurt more, but at least I saw it for what it was. No more fantacies. And your right, I'm sure he wished he had that with his wife. I have thought about that alot. I have really come along way in my thinking since I became pregnant. As far as my husband letting him off easy....we've been seperated for 2 years. The only reason we never divorced was because I have nerve damage in my neck and can't get other health insurance. In exchanged I told him I would not take my entitlements of retirements (he's retired from one union and on his way with another) until the divorce was final nor would I ask him for any alimony which I'm entitled to as I was a house wife our entire married life except the last 6 months, and that I would not push him to take off work on his weekends with our kids, I'd just keep them. And if he waited until my time period was up to where I could get health insurance I would not ask him to help pay for the insurance. Right now he is getting off pretty cheap and he can see the kids when ever he wants or does not want. I don't force the parenting aggrement on him. He has to work, and whatever. Yes he was hurt when I got pregnant, but I think it was more of an ego thing. You see we tried for 4.5 years to get pregnant. We went through years of drugs and IVF (invitro) with miscarraiges and end result our twin girls. Even though all the problems were mine, the first words out of his mouth was when I told him, "and we tried all those years?" And no, he can't stand xmm. I had introduced them awhile back before A ever started. When A started husband was gone almost 7 months. He's been dating and moving on too. I will say I did hurt him when I asked him to leave but we had no marriage and "I" had been working on it for to many years....long before my girls were born and it only got worse. He wanted to play married, not be married, if you can understand that. Anyway that is the readers digest version of my marriage. Just to let you know, I totally understand what you were saying about xmm. Thanks

Thank you NTMO and Gemini for sharing your stories.

For those BW's and BH's who have decided with their WS's that n/c is best for their situation, how did you arrive at that decision.

Was there many agonising hours spent weighing all the pros and cons, or was it a fairly swift and quick necessity. I realise that there would be a sense of urgency where pregnancy is involved because time keeps ticking away and options are lessened as that time goes on - it's not like you can suspend it for a year while you get your thoughts together. It was all I could do to survive after dday, let alone make decisions like that - but then again it is probably different for the WS.

I still harbor a lot of anger and resentment towards my WH, and I apologise if that comes out towards BW's. Really my anger is at the person (people) who caused the mess, but I also try to think how I feel in relation to being a child with issues of abandonment. I am trying to be a voice for those children as well.

As usual, there hasn't been a WS with an OC post here yet, has there?

well there was Tony but I think he got scared away. Can you really blame them for not posting? That would require them lifting their heads of of the sand.

needtomoveon,
My goodness! Except for the invitro, you sound like OW in our case a little.

So you worked on your marriage for years? How about if you did the things you did for MM to you H? Where would you be?

I know you think all is lost but have you even tried again for the twins sake?

Ow here does not force the visitation thing with her H either...he just came back from Fla. after his brother was killed in a motorcycle crash this past March. To help his Mom and family business (bar) his brother owned. Funny...he is back and his kids are thrilled... my sisters D is in ow's sons class at school and we "hear" things ya know?

Honestly H and I are hoping her and H reconcile and stay married in the true sense of the word...for all their c's!

I wish you could step inside your H's shoes a brief moment, not too long, and think what he must feel... have you talked? Is all lost? Even after the twins? If so I'm so sorry all of the children will be alone for a while....without Dad.. Really I am sorry..

Praying you'll soon find a soloution to peacefulness...

StillTrying,
The decision to seek contact was made while I was emotionally unstable and H was in a fog thinking ow would be as wonderful as she was during the A.

I became stronger....the fog lifted... ow was demanding of my H and his time and the when's and where's of visits... She said at her home without me after ONE visit set up by me at our home.... It was awful...sorry.... it was awful for all of us and to boot, ow called H to tell us we had to bring oc home as I was unstable and she didn't trust me.

I would not hurt a baby....but it was a cover as she wanted the fantasy of H coming over without me to see their baby.

The decision was made after many breeches of the agreement we all had made....all were dishonored by ow....continous calls to H at will ... interruptions to our trying to sort out this mess and what we wanted in our marriage.. after a time...we agreed to stop the damaging effects and drop visitation and just pay her the "hush" money....

From that time on, it was unsteady... me not trusting... him getting calls and letters STILL...she didn't let go and to this day hasn't....it angered my husband to the point of wishing he'd never laid eyes on her. It showed him what she was all about....herself....

So now we go on together...scars of the past show up like a bad stitch job from a plastic surgeon who botches a job... it will never leave us but taught us a particularly good lesson....To never wish for what you THINK you want because you may get it in a way you don't like.

The N/C was to end the insanity of ow and us being together in our lives and it is as ugly as an x- who you want no part of...only worse...

We both agreed the best would be for ow and her children and H to have a chance at peace WITHOUT us. Her oc will not suffer as oc has many family members who accept and love oc.

Our wish is oc doesn't turn out with ambivilent feelings like you have. Sorry but instead of worrying about what you do not have...look at what you do/did have. How sorry I am that your parents must feel they were not good enough!

I am more sorry for them. They did the best they could and loved you and all you do is think about someone who may not have been able to be the person you wanted.

Hey....all of us here have one of those! H is laughing at that...It's true eh?

Peace and prayers you find some kind of acceptance in life. It's all we can all wish for...peace and acceptance.

M, keep on going stong and maybe instead of worrying about MM, turn a little energy to your H. The results may astound you!

love
Debi

Debi, h and I are much better living apart than together. Our kids are much happier as well. One of the twins had a terrible stuttering problem and it was because of us. When we split I put my energry on her and she only stutters as we all do now. H even agrees on that. We were raised so differently and he just does not know how nor does he want to know how to play as a team. His whole family has problems with relationships and frankly it's just weird. He agrees to. That in itself is another very long story. I really feel sorry for the way he was raised. I actually put a whole lot more energy into h than I ever did in xmm. As xmm was married, I lived my life and took care of my kids and did what I wanted to do. Don't get me wrong, xmm was a huge part of my life, we were around each other to much, but I made my own decisions about my kids and life. He tried to control my life, but I figured he was not sharing my life. I never brought him around my kids even though they knew him from before the affair. I knew that would not be right. Ok the whole thing was not right, but you know what I mean. I did try one more time after I asked h to leave, with no luck. H does see the kids, it's just not consistant as normal divorced people have it. He does have a strange work schedule, but we all work with it. I have no problem letting my kids seeing him at all even at very little notice. They worship the ground he walks on as it should be. Xmm and I use to laugh saying that his w and my h should of married as they were more alike and him and I should of well........oh well. At this point my concern is my kids. I don't want my kids already in this world to do without because xmm is running from his responsibilities. But it's just one more thing I have to fight for. Thanks for the ear.

M Thanks for explaining.... and now I have to run. Work calls <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

love
Debi

ST,

Here's a perspective from the OC who had some contact w/Mom's OM.

CONFUSION!!!

Everybody's trying to keep this dirty little secret from exploding in their faces, while "Mr Selfish World Revolves Around Me" insists on sneaking contact.

ST, don't wish for the can of worms that never got opened in your behalf.

As a WS w/OC, I feel the same way the K does! In our case, xOM/MM was quite psycho! After D-day, he was basically stalking us! He even begged Sailorman to be able to talk to me "one last time"! Of course I didn't want anything to do with him, as I had been trying to get out of the stupidity I allowed myself to get into. Seeing as how xOM attacked my H on D-day, and his stalking tendencies, that was one of the major reasons to not even tell him about the P in the first place. We didn't want him involved in any way from that point on. One of the other major reasons was that we DIDN'T want to take ANYTHING away from his (then) W or his D! I say "then" because from another "friend" she said that she was going to D xOM after she had her "ducks in a row".

So, basically, our decission was made as a M'd couple thinking of OUR family first(for once!!!). Was it agonized over, well, whether to keep P or give the baby up for adoption was a long discussed topic. But, after having been through giving a child up for adoption when we were teens, my H(NOT ME) decided that we would raise the baby as ours!!!! Well, OUR little girl will be 3 in March, and we are perfectly happy with our decission.

There, you now have a WS w/an OC's POV. I am always willing to share my story, but also agree that these broad strokes doesn't help ANYONE in any type of situation. Also, maybe if you did go into a little more detail about your abandonment, it would be easier to reply! Many of these OC have never met or seen their bio-father, and many who do come here to lament being abandoned have had said parent involved from the beginning. I, for one, believe that there is a HUGE difference and don't judge, or pass judgement on those who've decided on NC.

Again, just a WS pov

Tigger

After discussing this, we decided that our family came first. No contact was the only reasonable choice for us. OW and her wants were not a consideration. We discussed every avenue and it was quite obvious that we would not have the oc in our lives or our home.

To much drama and fallout from that. Learned of to many people who tried and it failed.

ST: You keep saying what about the OC. We keep telling you over and over, the OC is one of many victims of this. But, the marriage and the nuclear family has needs, and those needs may not be what is best for ow/oc. That is a fact and one of many damaging aspects of the selfishness of the affair.

As for how contact would hurt the children of the marriage. How are they supposed to explain this visiting child? Why should they have to? Plopping a totally stranger into the family every other weekend is a disruption and would be confusing. Sorry, the family has to look out for itself. Most men think this out. They make the choice. There is not a woman alive who would say me or oc. That is just to simple. The couple talk it out and view it from each angle. When the decision was made, it was no contact with oc. OW did not like that one bit, but that was not our problem. We had a family to heal and her being upset was hardly a thought. OC, sadly was an innocent, who would never know his bio-dad. However, it was a difficult choice, but he choose his wife and nuclear family.