,

<small>[ January 11, 2005, 10:36 PM: Message edited by: Justuss ]</small>

just a note, not all ow are single and not all ow are the ones that made the move, there are om who are single and om who are the agressors. not making excuses for anyone, just wanted to open the last posters eyes, sometimes its two married people.
(and at 46 the last thing i wanted was another pregnancy (#8) but things do happen that we dont plan and we have to deal with them in a way we can live with ourselves, and i guess that does come out selfish to some,, but i did what was right for my life and my childs life, and now i am dealing with the consequences of my decisions. no blame on anyone)
full house

First, I can see that OW are on here, or their supporters, when they were clearly asked to NOT respond. Spouting all their "it is his fault" banal garbage.

Her point is, and she is right, is that once the child is conceived, and the father does not want it why should he be forced? Any woman can get an abortion at any time. Without even letting the man know, so she clearly is total control if there is a child or not. Others be dammed. I agree. It is wrong. But the oc is here and things being what they are, you can do other things.

Get a good laywer. Pay the CS, but plan your future carefully and legally. You can invest income in such a way that is not included in the application for child support.

As for suing the OW. Well, our law firm has a lien against her home. We clearly stated that she was never to call, write or in anyway shape or form contact us. Of course she did. Our laywers had to haul her off to court a few times. We sued her for legal fees since she was the idiot who couldn't obey the court order to stay away. She didn't pay the bill and now owes our law firm in excess of $5000.00 What a moron. They are now attaching to their tax returns and are going for a garnisment of her meger wages. I do not feel bad one bit.

She seemed to think that her and oc should come first. Wrong. She seemed to feel that the law was in place for her and her alone. Wrong. She seemed to think her status as mom to oc gave her all these rights. WRONG. She seemed to think that oc should be treated as a sibling and that she had all these rights as he was "family" wrong again. Her face when the judge told her that he was well versed in what game she was playing, as he had seen it many times, was priceless. Her lip was quivering when she was told that she needed to leave our family alone, that she needed to grow up and take her responsibility seriously and to quit blaming others for the choices she made in her life. That she was dangerously close to being unfit to raise a child with her irrational behavior bordering on obsession. She had come into court, always so sure she would win. She looked at child support as some type of victory. Not realizing that we too had rights. We had a right to a live totally void of her and oc. She now has leins against her property. Our law firm is big enough were it is not a hinderance to be out that money, but they are also not going to relent either. So, while I did not sue OW for her affair and the oc, I/we sued for legal fees and won. She never thought it was possible. As with many ow, she seemed to feel that everything was my husbands fault and that she was some victim, and that her child was the only one that mattered. She has learned many a lesson the hard way.

So, don't worry about immediate gratification. Your day will come, and she will get her just deserts in time. As you and your family have paid emotionally and monetarily, so to will she pay. But you can't create that, it will create itself.

Just ignore her, have no contact, get a good laywer and go and live your life. She isn't worth your thoughts.

Fullhouse, I just want to say that you and pops have shown how things can work out. Even if there is no contact, things can work out for everyone involved and everyone involved can heal and go on with there lives.

ftbs,,,,,,, you hit the nail right on the head with this comment, "Women are just as responsible as men for birth control'. both parties are equally responsible.

since both parties know what they are doing is wrong and obviously know that their A partner can't be trusted, they each should be useing some form of birth control on their own.

in our case i had a vasectomy and asked fh to have her tubes tied. she didn't think it was necessary at the time. had she taken that individual step to assure no more pregnancies as we BOTH had decided we wanted no more children then we would not find ourselves here.

ots,,,,,,,, i read here that you never wanted to be a single mother. yet on your other post you made it quite clear that you have been one with your 10 yo for some time and that you don't need any MAN in your life because you are so strong and independent.

you talk about how you have been a faithful birth control user since you 1st was born and that it was just a mistake that you forgot this time. that you didn't want to get pregnant but you are very excited about it.

sounds like the makings of a good evil woman on a soap opera. you know the kind where the ow gets pregnant just to try and force mm to leave his w.
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

<small>[ January 13, 2004, 08:55 AM: Message edited by: pops ]</small>

Pops I see her more as being very defensive with your actions and making excuses for herself. As time goes by I have a feeling she will be in a different place than she is now. Could be wrong.....not everyone learns from there mistakes. In my first trimester (I'm in the 3rd now) I remember thinking and hoping that xmm would change his mind about the baby....not come to me and leave his w as I was already done from his comments about the baby....but just come around. As time went on, I knew differently and knew if I keep her It would be up to me and only me.......so my mind frame changed as well. Anyone of age I can't believe that they would honestly think any man married or not would drop there lives just because someone they slept with got pregnant. That is fantacy.

needtomoveon,,,,,,, you are probably right and i quess i brought this attitude towards onthesideline here from another thread and for that i appoligize. i quess i saw her more as someone stirring the pot rather then looking for the lost ingredient.

lynng,

Not all women believe that abortion is an option. Not any woman can have an abortion based on their personal beliefs, just because a man made law says it's okay.
Not everyone views abortion as a solution to these extra marital affair issues.
The affair may have been a flawed moral decision but adding murder (to those who believe that is what it is) to the list of mistakes isn't a solution.

<small>[ January 13, 2004, 09:21 AM: Message edited by: CeeCee68 ]</small>

Well, I know we are all going to disagree with the abortion issue. So noted. What the point is, is that the woman is the body who can become pregant, and that woman can choose whatever she wants. It took two to create the pregnancy, but once created, only one gets to call the shots. That is the whole point. The choice to have the child or not, lies soley with the woman. The man can't FORCE her to abort, but she can FORCE him to pay cs, etc. That is the point that is trying to be made. While I believe that abortion is sometimes the best way, I respect that others feel differently.

Lynn G. I agree with everything you are saying and I totally understand where you are coming from. You choose to have the baby then you choose to do it all on you own. I like the way you think.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well, I know we are all going to disagree with the abortion issue. So noted. What the point is, is that the woman is the body who can become pregant, and that woman can choose whatever she wants. It took two to create the pregnancy, but once created, only one gets to call the shots. That is the whole point. The choice to have the child or not, lies soley with the woman. The man can't FORCE her to abort, but she can FORCE him to pay cs, etc. That is the point that is trying to be made. While I believe that abortion is sometimes the best way, I respect that others feel differently. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

fortheboys,
First of all I wondered the very same thing right after d-day. After all ow did behind my back, she never said "sorry Debi, you were my friend and I also betrayed you". My H asked forgiveness from the start.

I also thought she was insane in the beginning to carry my H's child in front of her children and Husband and family and shamelessly.

I saved my bills from my STD tests and wanted to "sue" her because of my anger....I wanted her to feel SOMETHING.... H and I were feeling pain and it seemed she was going full force ahead in the wrong direction and needed to feel something hurtful too.

That was then and now I realize it was because of MY intense hurt, because of MY feelings about it all.

As time went on and H and I counseled and did an honest P.O.J.A. and his actions were of sincere remorse and he actually took my feelings into account on how we were to continue life together, those revenge feelings left me.

fortheboys, it seems you and H aren't doing anything as a team. He should never pay ow anything without it being documented with the courts.
I suspect your strong anger stems from your H not doing things together with you on such important decisions. He is acting independantly as he did during the A. Doing only what he thinks should be done and discounting anything you say or feel.

You need the Harleys for a couple of sessions even if you have to borrow the money. You have wasted too much time. You and H are on a slow ride to destruction without the necessary skills to help recovery. I say the Harleys because they know how to deal with each of you individually to help seek the answers you are so wanting to know.

Just know that I have been where you are.

Prayers and love
Debi

LynnG - Can I ask what state you live in, because I certainly can't find lawyers like you have found to help you. I am getting no help, and the lawyers I have spoken to have treated ME like a criminal for asking questions to try to protect myself.
Debi - You are right, I am very angry that H is sending $ without a court order, but my anger comes from the fact that I don't want him to send anything. We are getting further and further behind in our own bills and the stress of that on top of everything else is making it very difficult for me. But this is one thing that he will not budge on, because he doesn't want to go to court and have to pay more or have this involve our kids. His name is not on the BC and he wants to keep it that way - if he is forced to take a paternity test than it will be on the BC and he will be tied to this mess for good. He is hoping that she will meet someone and move on with her life, and eventually leave us alone. I know that it is a long shot. I wish I could afford the Harleys, but its hard to spend even more $ when we are getting notices for not paying our bills because of this mess. I am trying to separate if you have read my other posts, but am running into some trouble.
LynnG - anyway I could contact you about my problems with the separation?

fortheboys,
I did read the problems with seperation...truly sad...

Was DNA done? Forgive me I forget what you said about that.

If you are sending money and it is causing you hardship can ow take a little less till you get caught up?

I hate to see this and it happens over and over here....

Try calling a lot of lawyers and ask for a phone consult telling your story. Explain your lack of funds. Perhaps you'll find one that will work with payment plan. This way you can do the seperation with legal counsel.

We used "our" attorney for cs. Ow and our attorney worked together with us and ow. However if something irked her she'd still call H. Was warned to leave us alone over and over again. Came to the point her attorney was going to drop her case! We did it without a court hearing and it went through juvenile courts without us being there as everything was agreed upon. It is auto deducted and sent through CS agency. We do get a quarterly health insurance bill. Wonder what the mailman thinks? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> It's addressed to H and has oc's name below that...no match whatsoever to our name.

It gets easier hon. I hated paying ow too.... all BS feel that way in the beginning. Truly you do begin to ease up on those agonizing feelings. There comes a day when it just isn't worth crying over spilled milk, you know?

I will pray for you fortheboys. I hate to see anyone in so much agony. I promise you that you will see better days...

I hope the money situation begins to turn around too.

love
Debi

<small>[ January 13, 2004, 02:48 PM: Message edited by: gemini1 ]</small>

What gets overlooked is that &#8220;getting&#8221; pregnant is a step-by-step process. Before the OW can choose to have the baby or have an abortion, she does have to go through the insemination, actually get pregnant, and then choose how to proceed. The MM&#8217;s choice came at the very beginning of this process, at the time he chose to sleep with the OW. In this day and age, you would be hard-pressed to find a man or woman who did NOT know that having sex can lead to pregnancy and it is your responsibility to protect yourself. We also know that once a woman is pregnant, the choice is hers. Whether this is fair or not is not the point. Until the law changes, this is the reality. Knowledge BEFORE the act severely diminishes any claim to unfair treatment. If I willingly go into a situation, with full knowledge of all potential outcomes, I&#8217;ve given up my right to protest if the worse case scenario comes to be. I KNEW what could happen. In the end, I have full accountability for my choices&#8230;.good and bad. This is true for anyone. Your choice = your consequence. There is no gender bias in that.

Just my 2 cents.

<small>[ January 13, 2004, 05:50 PM: Message edited by: ohbratti1 ]</small>

After the birth of our child and his OC, my H had a vasectomy. I thought he did it for me, so I wouldn't have to have all of the responsibility of birth control. But then he continued his A with OW. I don't know whether to be happy or sad.... at least there are no more OC to be worried about.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by CeeCee68:
<strong> lynng,

Not all women believe that abortion is an option. Not any woman can have an abortion based on their personal beliefs, just because a man made law says it's okay.

=^^= No one has ever said here on this site that all women believe abortion is an option. It was the WOMEN'S MOVEMENT and Roe vs. Wade, and the National Organization of WOMEN who pushed for Pro-Choice, Cee Cee. NOT men.

Not everyone views abortion as a solution to these extra marital affair issues.

=^^= This is NOT an abortion debate, so self-righteous indignation won't fly here. Get off soapbox, please. This abortion topic is tiresome. It's only an option...and a well received option until recently...until the courts became more agressive to garner income shares for unwed single mothers. Now that the courts are more aggressive than the IRS confiscating income shares and distributing them to the single Mom's, the rate of abortion has dropped. It's more profitable to have and keep said child, not to mention the disturbing horror women live with who actually have had an abortion. I hear it is something they never get over. Plus, there is a debate about a link between abortion and breast cancer. Whatever the reason, it is a blessing that a thousand more innocent lives are spared than a few years ago. The unfortunate thing is that often money is the inspiration to spare that life. No one here is advocating abortion. I happen to be pro-life but I know there are others here who are pro-choice and I say, whatever blows your dress up.

The affair may have been a flawed moral decision but adding murder (to those who believe that is what it is)

=^^= I think it is murder too, but that is my opinion and it really doesn't matter here because it is a moot point because the reason why we are here is because an OC exists. Please do not chastise the Walking Wounded for momentarily wishes that the OC were aborted. It is a fleeting post discovery sentiment that fades in time. In fact, old Pro-Life me had a very unpleasant weekend five years ago struggling with my own paradox on the subject and wondering if I were really "true to myself" and my convictions and beliefs or if I only believed this way if it didn't effect me. Thankfully, within that year, I reverted back into my original way of thinking. But hideous trauma like finding out your spouse has fathered a child with someone who has no business in your life, someone you don't even know and someone who has no right to have your husband's child, suddenly gives birth.,...and then YOU get to pay for it all! So, no more moralizing about abortion because we have all said things we have come to regret while we are in the early stages after discovery and we are all entitled to feel this way, to say these things and to purge our rage and disappointment to get it out of our systems, because we all eventually heal and get over it.

</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by OnTheSidelines:
<strong> It's obvious to me that you're angry that OC exists.

=^^= Initailly we are ALL angry OC exists. If the tables were turned, you would feel the same exact way. It's universal...kind of like we all cry when we hear sad songs or watch sad movies, or laugh when we hear a good joke, or rage at an injustice. This is no different. The negative reaction usually passes in time for all of us.

However, OC didn't come about on it's own...your husband is as much responsible for the OC as the OW is. If he didn't want a pregnancy to occur, he should have worn a condom, just as if she didn't want a pregnancy, she should have protected herself.

=^^= Since day one, we have had new OW's coming here to our site and puffing up on this very topic and whine "what about MM??? HE sould have worn a condom...HE knows what happens if unprotected sex happens"...blah, blah, blah. Yeah? And we all know this too. So what? MOST husbands suffer horribly the consequences of their behavior within their own home and community. The suffering and contrition that takes place having to face your betrayed spouse and your betrayed children is something that rates with the top three most horrible things a man can endure, THIS being the first. We SEE our husband's remorse, we HEAR the words of contrition and pain, we FEEL their suffering, so we turn our cannons away from our beaten down spouse who is putting himself through hell and redirect our aim to the other half of this equation that is so bold, so determined, so unfeeling to the BW and BC who delight in our pain and who have no remorse and are picking our pockets and causing us to suffer enormous financial hardship. We are enraged those first few months...or year or two. As long as the court orders keep coming, as long as the garnishments keep coming, as long as the harassment keep coming as long as the OW never considers the BW or BC, there is no reason for the BW to agonize over the plight of the OW and OC. We get an awful lot of OW's coming here trying to make us feel guilty that their OC does'nt get the same consideration that their own BC get...as if they are entitled. They have already taken so much from us; it's stunning to us that they expect and want even more and have no regrets about the hardship their action have imposed upon us. So we get resentful and we want the OW and OC to disappear and figure out how to take care of themselves since they made the decision to screw our husbands to begin with, not protect their bodies, have and keep child and then pin the expenses on us! It is like being raped and having to pay your rapist for room and board and being forced into it. If you think about it in those terms and just reverse the situation and truly put yourself in a BW's shoes, then perhaps you would be able to see the resentment.

It doesn't make sense for you to sue OW for this child's existence unless you sue your husband as well.

=^^= That's the stupidest thing I've heard all day. Why would any BW sue her WS if they are reconciling and he is already in the throws of pain and remorse. He is suffering enough. You obviously have absolutely no idea what happens in a home after D-day. The BW barely has to do a thing in retaliation because the husband is punishing himself so completely. Besides, if they are in reconciliation, the BW is moving heaven and earth to meet his emotional needs and treating him with kindness and love to counteract the beatings he gives himself. One other thing you haven't considered is the fall from grace the WS experiences with friends, relatives and acquaintances who know about this...they never see him in the same light EVER again. Any respect they once had for him has been severly tarnished and recovery form that takes much longer than marital reconciliation, in my experience.
I tried to sue the OW and even flew to Texas to do this in 1999; maybe 2000. We found an attorney who told us to hurry because the laws were about to change and he was going to do it for free except for a token charge of $1500 to cover all the filings, court costs and office-secretary stuff. But, we couldn't come up with the cash at the time, and we missed the deadline. It wasn't for alienation of affection but it was for personal injury...MY personal injury. I had tons of proof the OW knew full well my hsuband was married and that he was acutely mentally ill and that she deliberately got knocked up with her intent to secure income shares and use my husband as a meal ticket. She was successful...very successful in her mission, and we were not. She did win this round, and that's OK now, but back then I harbored murderous rage for her and what she intentionally set out to do. She ruined my life (I know, I know, my hsuabnd too) but she didn't care...and THAT is what SHE is guilty of...that she just didn't care. She didn't care how this would effect an innocent wife or their innocent children. That she went ahead anyway knowing what she knew. But she had an agenda to fulfil and she was very successful. She knew how sick he was and didn't care. She thought he had money and was successful in convincing the courts we were rolling in it, despite obvious documentation to the contrary and our pleas for an audit through the courts to prove what we were telling them was the truth. It fell and has always fallen on deaf ears. She gets over 65% of my husband's net wages and we are just barely skimming by. She doesn't need all that money because she lives at home with her parents at nearly 40 and refuses to work. I know she spends all that money on herself since no kid costs $1500 a month...and we shouldn't have to support OW. How would YOU like to have over half your income garnsihed and redistributed to some woman you never met that intruded herself into your life and stole from you everything you held dear...and did it to someone she knew was sick?

Ask yourself this: Will suing the OW solve your problems?

=^^= In ways you can't even begin to imagine....you have no idea....

</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

LynnG... Keep on keepin on \O/ you go \O/ you are
just what the Doc ordered. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

<small>[ January 14, 2004, 02:15 AM: Message edited by: MALC ]</small>

Lynng, It's nice to agree to disagree.

Obratti, You've made an excellent point and I couldn't agree more.

The enforcement of consequences for a person's actions may not deter others from commiting the same act, but hopefully it will deter the person who has exercised their free will to take certain actions.

If these men aren't held responsible, I often wonder how many would be back out there having sex and getting their emotional needs met elsewhere? Maybe if they are held to a higher standard they will stop, think, and eventually realize that just because they can't become pregnant themselves does not mean they are given a free pass to do whatever they want with no consequences, legal or otherwise.

catnip, I won't debate with you but I will say this: I again brought up the "abortion solution" issue because it was discussed as a solution/option for "any" woman in lynng's post. She and I are in agreement that we disagree on that issue. I'm not on a soapbox, I am expressing my view. The last time I checked, I'm was entitled to it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />