OW had my daughter 6 years ago, and is finally letting me see her started around Christmas. The conditions she set excludes my W and until I can afford an attorney it will continue that way. My W and I have been having problems since before this and have exploded them even more. Now she is ussing my son to pull me in one direction, while the OW uses my daughter to pull me in another. I have tried to set boundries, but to no avail. I am feeling very pushed and pulled from all sides, with no escape. I have even discussed seperation from my W. It is very obvious to me the other woman wants me back full time in her life, however I have not let her pull me back in. I let my W know every move of every minute of everyday, so she feels secure but that hasn't helped. I have had extensive discussions with the W every night for weeks with no solution. I am out of idea's totally.

All_ears:

You need to rebuild your marriage first, and it's clear that you need the help of a professional. My best advice to you would be to contact the Harley's for phone counseling (888-639-1639 for appointments)---you should do it alone, if your wife won't participate.

At this point, I think it's best to have no contact with your daughter or OW. You and your wife need to rebuild the marriage to a point where you and she are in love again, and where you both have a set of behavioral skills that will nurture and protect that love. I think it's good that you've been honest with your wife about where you are and what you're doing, but your wife is never going to feel secure with you going over to this woman's house when she has designs on you---and when you're expressing your love and devotion to your wife in terms of discussing separation.

If you are paying court mandated child support to this woman, then you need to get back in court and get visitation arranged to something that you AND your wife are mutually enthusiastic about (the Policy of Joint Agreement---one of the cornerstones of the MB principles). I'd be interested in what solutions your wife HAS come up with---let her express how she would like to handle this situation.

If your 6 year old daughter does not know you as a father, then I think you (and she) can afford to the time to get your marriage straightened out. Fail in this, and you'll screw up both your kids.

I think if my husband started having contact with his OC without my involvement, it would make me crazy and unreasonable too. If he allowed OW to have the all power, control the situation and call all the shots while showing such enormous disrespect for me after her part in the destruction of my marriage and happiness, I would be outraged and insulted. If my husband does what OW wants by disregarding me, his wife, I would know that I do not matter to him. If he allowed this woman who has no right in our lives do this, it would prove he isn't man enough to tell OW that unless I am involved, there will be no contact.

The marriage and your spouse and your healing/recovery take precedence over everything. If your wife felt safe and secure in the marriage and believed in you once again, she might be willing to accept contact...but not at the expense of her marriage, her home, her family. Since OW is apparently being difficult and making unreasonable demands, it is your obligation to set OW straight and take control of the situation. As long as your are paying support, actively involved in your child's life, it isn't any of OW's business whether or not you child is around your wife. This is just something OW will have to put up with if she wants her child to have an involved dad, because it isn't OW's call, no matter how unbelievably nervy she is.

Think about it from a wife's perspective and put yourself in her shoes. Let's pretend this is your life and your marriage and you are happy and deeply in love with your husband. Suddenly, he becomes detached and distanced from you...you're not sure when this started but you "feel" something isn't right. Months later you find out he not only had an affair, but that there is a child borne of that affair and your whole world comes crashing down around you. You know you will never be the same, but you want desperately to turn back the hands of time or to reconnect with your husband, You even do something that threatens you just to make him happy and agree to contact with the OC. Then you learn that not only the OW refuses you to have contact with your husband's child, but that your husband is going along with it!

Here your life is shattered and your spirit has been through the worst possible thing that can happen in a marriage, but you acquiesce and go along with contact only to have this woman you don't even know make all the rules and demand that you not have contact with the child...that only your husband can see the child. How incredibly insulting! After all this strange woman has put you through, changing your life forever and then procedes to continue stealing more of your life from you for the next couple of decades, while emptying your pockets in the process, it's obvious she wants all the privileges and none of the obligations. In fact, you aren't even allowed to be involved. I mean, who is she? Who is this woman who doesn't even belong in your life dictating how it's gonna be?

You sound as though you're not that crazy about your wife anyway so perhaps you should do her a favor and get out of her life so she can find someone worthy of her. Not someone who will go along with what OW wants while disrespecting his wife. It's the ultimate insult to your wife and to your marriage and it's no mystery to me why she is reacting the way she is. Any woman would be the same way...in fact, most of us here have reacted just as your wife is reacting...and with good cause.

If you DO want to save your marriage, tell OW that you and your wife are in recovery and that the two of you have entered into a Policy of Joint Agreement where neither of you make any decision without the other's enthusiastic approval. Meanwhile, let OW mull it over whether or not she is willing to allow you to see the child under YOUR terms and while she is mulling, you and your wife concentrate on each other's Emotional Needs and cater to each other and make each other feel safe and loved and become ONE. There is strength in numbers. Once you and your wife are well on the road to recovery, you will be able to offer your child the gift of a stable loving environment without angst; otherwise, youa re just hurting your child by incorporating him/her into a dysfunctional unhappy household where YOU are responsible for the turmoil.

Your wife is deserving of your loyalty and to be your first consideration and priority, to feel safe and secure. Your child deserves to spend time with both you AND your wife in a normal, happy and harmonious home and you have the power to give this to both of them. Don't worry about OW or what she wants. She is playing a destructive game. She might call your bluff and say you can't see you child at first, but she will change her tune when the courts order visitation. The decisions will be taken out of her hands legally and there will be nothing she can do about it. Not only that, but if OW is playing these destructive games, it says an awful lot about what kind of a person she is and that she isn't considering the negative impact on her child or thinking about what is best for her child.

It sounds like OW has her own agenda and you might be flattered that OW has you in her crosshairs, but if you go there and abandon your wife and children, when the realities of all this hits, you are going to snap out of this illusion and wonder what the hell you were thinking. But it might be too late.

Perhaps, you will have to put further contact with your child on ice for a short while since you feel so pulled and unable to stand your ground with OW. Let the courts handle it and take yourself off the hook.

Don't let her pull your strings like you're some helpless puppet.

<small>[ January 09, 2004, 09:33 PM: Message edited by: catnip ]</small>

It is OW like this and situations like these that cause many BS to say absolutely NC and maybe even say OC or ME!

Don't use the lack of $$$ for an attorney as an excuse to let OW call all the shots, control your life and ruin your marriage. Check your state for legal-aid office or a family law facillitator. They will help you file all necessary court documents for free to get court ordered visitation. OW has absolutely NO right to tell you who your child can have contact with while she is with you.

Give your wife the security she needs and she won't be so freaky. Also, no disrespect to your wife but she cannot keep you from your children with her either.

Thank you all for your advice. I am currently contacting assistance for legal help to resolve this issue with the OW. I have had long discussions with the W over the weekend to work out our other current issues. Hopefully the other issues will get worked out as well, as we have implemented the joint agreement policy. I have been working on the issues on my side with regards to making my W feel more secure in our marriage, and she fully understands the issues I have with her. I am going to sit down and discuss the issue with the OW of our daughter tonight and let her know my course of actions that will be taken. I have thought about doing this at our house, with the W present to ensure she apart of all the discissions.