Here is what I posted about this past week-end. My h has a mediation meeting tomorrow over child support and I'm just sick about it. Everything is so fragile and uncertain for us right now, that the thought of the two of them having contact is just sitting well with me. We have sought advice from several different sources on the advisability of my going with him and all sources have said bad idea...bad for me, bad for the marriage and bad for the negotiations (my biggest concern). How do I deal with the necessity of the NC agreement being broken? How do I trust him to not talk with her or rekindle his feelings for her (we are only 1 month or so since he last saw her...if he's being truthful, and only 3 weeks from the NC letter)?

Here's my post and I'm open to any suggestions on how to deal with my fears...

Well the WHOLE truth came out on Saturday. I suspected my h (sorry_n_sa) was not being totally honest and turns out he wasn't. Things picked up again after she had the baby and continued until I discovered the affair. Their last physical contact was either Sept or Nov (he initially agreed to Nov in a slew of other things and immediately recanted and said it was sept, either way it bites...he had said it was only one more time last march and that was it since she got pg....now it was they picked up a few months later and continued and continued unprotected because that stupid tramp told him she had her tubes tied when she had the baby...so now I will live in fear of another oc for a while.) Everything he had denied doing with her was a lie right down to telling her he loved her. What hurts the most is the continued lying. I have email upon email where he swore there was not physical contact and it was a lie. I even had sf with him on New Year's after eliciting a promise that March was it! I feel like such a damn fool! I am ashamed to admit that I totally lost control after I found out, I went from beating on him to tearing up most of the momentos from our wedding. I told him that as far as I am concerned we have been divorced since he started this mess nearly 3 years ago. I told him he could stay at the house because I wanted his financial support, help with the house etc and what he has denied me physically for most of the past 2-3 years (I told him if he could do it without emotions with her, I could do it without emotions with him just to get my needs met). I told him if he wanted to be married to me he was going to have to do it over this time and do it right. That I was done trying. I was just so hurt and so angry. I'm right back to naseau, sleeplessnes etc. I feel like we went back beyond square one because of the new lies on top of the old lies. UGH!!!! How can he be so stupid to think that lying to keep from hurting me further (what he claims) would help anything? To top it off, she filed for child support and now that will all have to be dealt with. This all stinks so bad!!!! Tell me I'm not the only one who has lies heaped on lies...tell me old dogs can learn new tricks and that he can learn not to lie.

--------------------
Blessings,
Lori

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by hurting in sa:
<strong> Tell me I'm not the only one who has lies heaped on lies...tell me old dogs can learn new tricks and that he can learn not to lie.
--------------------
Blessings,
Lori </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">=^^= How did this tragic thread fall through the cracks and get over-looked?

Dear Lori...I am so very sorry that you are going through this hideous nightmare...and so sorry you haven't received any responses but your thread got buried somehow.

Everyone of us here on this iste have been through varying degrees of what you are going through now. All our spouses have lied to us, some have lied over and over and over again. Some have conintued their affairs and others have stopped cold but took a long time to emerge from the insanity of it all. Old dogs can and do learn new tricks..."most" of the Ws's usually don't repeat the offense.

There is a lot of recovery here on this site and some very successful ones at that. There are others who are new to all this like you are that are struggling with the same feelings of grief and rage and heartbreak you are feeling. But, it will get better.

We encourage newcomers to read everything they can on this site on how to begin rebuilding their marriage. Learn the MB principles, what they mean and how to implement them into your life.

You're still in shock and just trying to figure out how this all happened to you and your marriage. Keep posting here and let some of the others respond to your thread and start a dialogue to gain more clarity and insight. You've told us about the lies and deception, now tell us your story and give us a history of the marriage and tell us how many kids you have and some details so we might be able to help.

So many of us have been where you are now ...you aren't alone and we all understand the pain and confusion. Some of the others should be along soon.

Catnip =^^=

I don't know where to start...I'm 34, he's 32. We met when he was 17 (almost 18) and started dating after he turned 18. We dated for almost 4 years, then he joined the Air Force, we got married, and we moved 1400 miles away from our families. We had problems, but nothing big. When he left the AF and we moved home we started to struggle and fight more. We delayed having children because we started having problems in marriage and because I was diagnosed with PolyCystic Kidney Disease at age 25. It's genetic and I have debated knowingly passing it on to my children. So WE do not have any children yet. The ultimate irony is that in November, I thought WE decided to go off the pill (how's that for sucking..I'm on the pill barely getting SF, and he's unprotected with a liar---fist she told him she couldn't get pg because she was raped as a teen then when they started up again after the kid was born she told him she'd had her tubes tied....how stupid can he be?) and start trying (I was feeling comfortable with the marriage). Apparently I decided and he didn't fight (although he knew he is probably already a Father) because he figure he could avoid SF and avoid getting me PG. So it makes it even harder for me that his firstborn is not mine....but that tramp's. He had the A to escape the problems...I was nagging and critical and he was lazy an distant. We actually separated for 3 months (at my request) about 5/6 months (from what I can tell) after his A started (I didn't know about it though). When we reconciled and started MC, I found things to make me suspect an A and even suspect this woman (a former co-worker), but I never had concrete proof. Our MC even asked him several times and he lied to her. We quit the counseling about 9 months ago, because I felt like we'd hit a wall (well gee, the lies and second life, big wall). But, I thought the marriage was a lot better. What a fool. My h has also been seeing another counselor because part of the marriage problems stemmed from a little internet porn problem on his side, that counselor was clueless too.

Rebuilding trust is going to be hard. My h works in Law Enforcement and works grave yard shift. He sleeps during the day and he carried out the entire affair during his sleeping hours. Never his days off when he has contact with me, but on days when I thought he was home asleep. He'd go sleep (and do other things) at her house. That is a part of our life that will be very hard to change. How do you have accountability when someone is supposed to be asleep? Plus, the lies predate the affair, and that is going to be hard.

I love him and I know he is sorry. He's shedding tears to match mine. But I'm afraid of him. I'm afraid that he could cause me this kind of pain again and that stinks. Plus the person you love most in the world isn't supposed to cause you this kind of pain. It's messed up! BUT, I so needed to hear that lots of the WS's don't become repeat offenders. I have confidence that we will eventually heal from this (although I sure want off the ride NOW). But the fear of going through this again is almost paralyzing.

Thanks for the encouragement.

Dear Hurting

I know you are aware of the obvious trouble spots of how you and your husband got to where you are today, but all that can dramatically change if BOTH you and your husband incorporate the Harley MB principles. Did you start reading the material we talked about yesterday? You have to start there. Posting isn't enough because it can often take over and then the person who needs constructive help is just using the board to sound off. While it is important for you to vent, that's only a small part of recovery.

Read the information on this site to identify the tools and the explanations to learn how to implement them into your lives. You husband may or may not be enthusiastic about this, but if you do what you need to do, chances are he might follow suit.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by hurting in sa:
[QB]
I'm 34, he's 32. We met when he was 17 (almost 18) and started dating after he turned 18. We dated for almost 4 years, then he joined the Air Force, we got married, and we moved 1400 miles away from our families.

=^^= So you two have been married for about 10 or 12 years? There's another gal here (Tigger) who married her childhood sweetheart, too. They are military as well. I hope she comes along soon to talk to you because I wonder how much of the trouble you're seeing has to do with the "youth" factor and not having dated others.

When he left the AF and we moved home we started to struggle and fight more. We delayed having children because we started having problems in marriage and because I was diagnosed with PolyCystic Kidney Disease at age 25.

=^^= I don't know what that is but it sounds awful. How serious is this illness? Is the fighting partially because of your health problems? Why do you think you two fight?

So WE do not have any children yet. The ultimate irony is that in November, I thought WE decided to go off the pill (how's that for sucking..I'm on the pill barely getting SF, and he's unprotected with a liar

=^^= There is an opinion on this site that if the two of you don't have any children together and/or neither of you have much invested into the marriage, then it is suggested to consider divorce and allow the Wayward Spouse to raise his child full time with the OW. This serves in two ways; not only does this let the child be raised by both bio-parents, but you are free to move on without the mess of dealing with CS, the OW and visitation, then you can pretty much start over relatively unscathed... except for, of course, the horrible heartache and loss. While this loss is deeply felt and takes a long time to get over, you do get over it. Some opt to do this and others stay and rebuild their marriage. It is entirely up to you to determine this of course.

she told him she couldn't get pg because she was raped as a teen then when they started up again after the kid was born she told him she'd had her tubes tied.

=^^= Is this a long term affair then? Does he have regular contact with the child?

So it makes it even harder for me that his firstborn is not mine....but that tramp's.

=^^= I know. I'm so sorry. If it helps at all, there are an awful lot of people here who are either infertile themselves or do not have a child the same sex as the OP (i.e. BW has all sons and wants a daughter but can't, yet the OW has a daughter), and even a few where the OC is the firstborn. Very bitter, heartwrenching pill, for sure. Lot's of lasting pain, lot's of triggers. That's why it is sometimes recommended here that if someone doesn't have children, they can cut their losses and move on and avoid the years of misery dealing with all the lifelong problems connected to OW, OC, CS and visitation and Contact. Even though this is Marriage Builders, marriage is not encouraged/recommended for everyone in an OC situation for obvious reasons, especially if they don't have kids themselves that need their parents together.

He had the A to escape the problems...I was nagging and critical and he was lazy an distant.

=^^= Sounds like you two weren't very nice to each other. How sad for you both. I'm so sorry.

We actually separated for 3 months (at my request) about 5/6 months (from what I can tell) after his A started (I didn't know about it though).

=^^= Did you see or talk to each other during this time?

When we reconciled and started MC, I found things to make me suspect an A and even suspect this woman (a former co-worker), but I never had concrete proof.

=^^= What made you reconcile? Who's idea was it to get back together? Did the other person want to reconcile?

Our MC even asked him several times and he lied to her.

=^^= They almost always do. My husband lied to our counselor, too. I think that they are in such denial at that point, if they are still involved with their OW, they are still attached and still have feelings for them, so they don't really care if the marriage works because in the back of their mind they are thinking they can just go off with the new person. Also, if he is involved with OW when you in counseling together, he might have just been going through the motions to placate because his head was somewhere else. My husband had every intention of leaving me and marrying OW and was pushing me away and actually being hostile and mean to push me away so he would be forced to leave, taking the burden of the exit off him.

I thought the marriage was a lot better. What a fool. My h has also been seeing another counselor because part of the marriage problems stemmed from a little internet porn problem on his side, that counselor was clueless too.

=^^= Sounds like your husband has some real problems in addition to dishonesty. Maybe you should ask yourself if he is worthy of you, or if he is worthy of of a chance at recovery...almost everyone is. That's up to you to decide.

Rebuilding trust is going to be hard.

=^^= Yes it is. Very hard. But, it CAN be done, but not without his enthusiastic involvement. He needs to do a couple things in order for recovery to take place.

1. Immediately cease ALL contact with OW. If he has visitation with the OC, then together, you must arrange for a third party to act as a go-between for pick ups and drop offs of the child, if there is going to be contact/visitation.

2. You and your husband must read the MB material and enter into a Policy of Joint Agreement (POJA) where neither one of you does anything without the other person complete and enthusiastic agreement.

3. You and you husband must take the Emotional Needs questionnaire and identify the areas where the two of you are losing sight of each other. Some people attend a Retrouvaille Weekend for a jump start into this. Retrouvaille has an 85% success rate. Check out www.retrouvaille.org for more information. You and your husband have to become in tune with each others' emotional needs.

4. Learn to avoid making disrespectful judgments and leanr and understand the Rules of Radical Honesty and Rules of Protection and the others. Focus on No Contact with your primary attention to each other for the first few months (it takes about 6 months for the WS to "get over" the pull of the OW) After that, if the two of you decide TOGETHER that visitation and contct are possible and will not hurt your marrige, you can decide together how to go about it.

5. Get an attorney and a DNA test. Before any money passes hands to the OW for support, you must get a DNA test since in some states, money changing hands is an admission of guilt. What if this child is not your husband's child? It has happened here at least four or five times.

6. He writes the No Contact Letter to OW. I'll explain more about that later.

My h works in Law Enforcement and works grave yard shift.

=^^= Well, that's predicatable. There are a lot of women who have gone through MB that are/were wives of cops or other law enforcement personnel. There are "cop groupies" out there and I think that this particular line of work is especially susceptible to affairs for some reason.

How do you have accountability when someone is supposed to be asleep? Plus, the lies predate the affair, and that is going to be hard.

=^^- All that can be incorporated into the POJA. In fact, once the couple has decided they want to stay together, the WS must reveal all his passwords for cellphones, call details and computer, etc. Until the BW feels secure, there will be little true recovery or trust. The WS must earn back that rust that has been lost and be willing to do anything to get it back. Sometimes this push-pull dance between husband and wife can last months and years before they enter into true recovery. It took my husband and me three years to get to the point where real recovery was happening. We went back and forth all that time; having good weeks and bad. On the brink of ending it all and then pledging ourselves to each other forever. It was tough. Real tough. Which is another reason why sometimes we encourage some people to move on.

I love him and I know he is sorry. He's shedding tears to match mine. But I'm afraid of him. I'm afraid that he could cause me this kind of pain again and that stinks.

=^^= I'm glad to see that he has some remorse, but if he is involved with OW or seeing her, he will cause you this pain again. You do have reason to be afraid if he is in contact. If he doesn't have contact, certain things need ot be done to ensure he won't contact her again. He has to write her a No Contact Letter formally ending the affair for good, instructing her never to call the house, where he works, his cell phone, e-mail, pony express, what have you. He has to tell her to contact him through his attorney or a third party with anything pertaining to the child (after DNA results are in).

I have confidence that we will eventually heal from this (although I sure want off the ride NOW). But the fear of going through this again is almost paralyzing.

=^^= If you have already decided to continue in the marriage and feel you will eventually heal form this and believe your husband is willing to do this with you, then immediately go into Plan A. this is something you do whether he joins in or not. Hopefully, he will get right into this and Plan A you right back. When this happens, it is a beautiful thing. That's why I suggested a boost from a Retrouvaille weekend as it is like a concentrated weekend of Plan A for BOTH parties. It really sets the stage for recovery.

I'll keep you in my prayers. Now, get busy...and read everything you can and learn all the things you need to do to begin the healing process.

Good luck

Catnip =^^=

I'm sorry I was starting to reply toyou the other day when my computer froze up and I hadn't gotten a chance to get back on here until now. What happened @ the mediation? DId you go after all?

lies upon lies? I've been there, still struggling with some. My H told me it was a one night stand and never knew about the pregnancy. A week before CS hearing (YEARS later) he "confessed" that it was more than a one night stand and it ended upon OW telling him she was pregnant. And that was just the beginning....

I understand your pain and confusion. I know it's hard and scary to put in the effort and take the risk. Having the OC and if contact is chosen, can be a rocky path. We're on it.

I still believe in marriage and honestly, I still believe in true love. I did go through that time of just being cynical of everything and everyone. I do want my H to change and in many ways he has, dramatically, for the better. But more recently I am changing MY attitude and (it's only been a few days lol) but it's really starting to help me.

I was/am afraid of being hurt/betrayed again also but I realized that I survived the worst already and even if, God forbid, this ever happens to me again, (not that I'm planning on it) I know I will survive again (my marriage might not but I will LOL)

I can't hide my love for my H (even with my bent towards cynism) and I don't want to. After dealing with what we have dealt with (A, OW, OC, lies lies lies) I think we can survive anything together. I am no longer afraid of being a "fool for love" (well, sometimes I am but not enough to hold back my love)

I write this to encourage you to let it all out. The GOOD, bad and the ugly. It can really get better. If you want to work on your marriage, and work on regaining your love one day you will find that it's not work any more. It's easy and comes naturally, it's romantic again.

It doesn't erase what happened or what is happening but if you want to keep your H, and like I did, want to have a passionate marriage not just a "roomate", it is possible.

It can all come back for you two and even better. It's hard to believe but it's true. Hope is not lost.

My H and I were married w/ baby @ 19, (now 30)also very young. Our immaturity and having much more responsibilities then our peers, I think, contributed greatly to A. And I wanted more children (@ that time) but knew we couldn't afford it and felt things were just not right between us to bring in another child but......there he is being irresponsible w/ OW.

It all hurts, H said he lied to spare my feelings and to try to salvage whatever he could of our relationship. I don't condone the lying (I detest it)but I can now understand and see it as his desperate attempts at trying to scrape together whatever he could to try and keep his hope for our marriage alive. There are scars but the wound is not so painful as before.

I hope things can work out for you two. You are not alone and it is not impossible. I have been right where you are and I know I am not the only one. I suffered many sleepless nights and nausea, loss of appetite, non-stop tears ect.

Beauty, truth and love can all be restored in your marriage.

Thank you both for replying...to answer Catnip's questions first...

I ordered SAA, His Needs/Her Needs, Love Busters and the workbook...I'm halfway through SAA. I'v read everything I could on the site. My H read about the POJA and PORA and was still lying about affair details...so I'm still scared. I can read and implement but he's got to do his part. You asked about the PKD (kidneys disease)...for right now it's not bad...I monitor my diet and blood pressure. But in 50% of cases your kidneys fail in midlife. This actually never enters our relationship. Our fighting is because I am a perfectionist with high standards and I'm very critical. He is kind of laid back and not the most motivated person and so we fight and I don't fight very fair. I tend to go for the most pain (very wrong I know and something I've been working very hard on). On the divorce and raising the child issue. The affair lasted about 2 1/2 years best as I can tell. But according to him his feelings for her never went much beyond friendship. He says he has no feelings for her and none for the child. He has been at their house every three to four weeks since he was born and according to my h he has not interacted with the child much at all. He says he's held him a few times when she needed to do something and needed hands, he does not think of him as his son. He said the OC was often asleep elsewhere in the house and he never saw him. He's never fed him, changed him, dressed him, bought him anything...etc. I've told him that if he had feelings for the OW, that I would divorce him and he could go be with them and raise the OC. But, he keeps telling me if I divorce him he won't have contact with her or the OC. He is saying that he does not want contact with the OC. He will pay what he is ordered to and that's all he is willing to do. He says he realizes what a huge mistake he made and that he will spend the rest of his life making up for it. He's even offered to work a second job to make up for the money he will deprive me of (in TX 20% of his pay, plus health insurance, plus back support for the past 1 1/2 years, plus half of unreimbursed medical costs....a lot of money). We weren't very nice to each other...something I'm deeply sorry for and so is he. When we were separated before, we still had regular contact and according to him he did not increase his time with her (weird to me). When I discovered the A in Dec, I kicked him out (gut reaction), I've always told him that an A would end our marriage and he had no reasons to believe otherwise, yet he did not run to her house, he went to his dad's where he knew he was probably not welcome (his dad true to form talked to him in the yard and sent him on his way, then he tried his sister...where he shared his neices room in a tiny trailer last time, and finally he ended up on the couch of a friend from work). Last time he moved home at my request...but also out of convenience. We spent the first six months in MC with me telling the counselor I wanted out of the marriage and didn't know how to let go. Then sometime after that I realized there was hope, that I wanted to be married to him and I recommitted (unfortunatley by then he knew she was PG and felt trapped in that other relationship in order to save ours...how convoluted). My husband is seeing a counselor on his own for his porn issus...he says the affair is related but he believes that now that he knows everything that he can help him. I hope so. My husband has many redeeming qualities if he can just get past the lying and the fear of my disapproval.

You gave a list of things to do...

1. Contact stopped the day I found out. He saw her at the Child Support office this past week, but said they did not talk, make eye contact noghting.
2. I'm reading the books and he's reading what I've printed out for him.
3. He pre-registered us for a Retrovaille week-end in February. We should be accepted. That 85% rate is encouraging.
4. Disrespectful Judgements...this will be my biggest hang-up. Unfortunately, on the no-contact it can't be avoided entirely until the Child Support issue is resolved. I do believe (okay 95% believe) that he has not seen her and does not want to. He is relieved that the secret is out. According to him, he would have ended this a long time ago if not for the fact that she' file for CS, I'd find out and the marriage would end. I'm inclined to believe him. He does seem relieved and we have an agreement that the ringer is on in the bedroom and he has to answer the phone even when sleeping and so far so good.
6. Because she filed for CS, he requested a test first. He goes today and she and the OC go on 2/2. Then the results will get mailed and if positive they meet together on 2/27 to negotiate the support agreement. After that, the state can take the money from his checks, BUT he has to put the OC on his insurance and they will have to work something out for non-covered medical expenses. I don't know they will be able to do this without contact, but I'm sure they can work something out. I'm still praying for a negative test, but I can't see her filing, knowing he'd request the test (He said so on D-day when I made him call for the DOB---long story, he was still lying, then he also requested a test in his NC letter).
6. He wrote the letter as a condition of coming back home. Told her it was over, that it was a huge mistake, that he loved me, always has, that I did nothing to deserve this and that the blame was all his. It was almost like a love letter to me. Then he told her was setting up a DNA test as he knew he responsibilities. His letter resulted in a "delightful" response from her on our answering machine...calling him the names I used, and telling him that she didn't want anything. So he cancelled the test and called a lawyer only to discover that we were at her mercy. But she didn't wait long to change her mind and file for CS, so now the state pays for the test (unless it comes back positive, then he pays) and now we'll know for sure very soon.

Thanks for all of the insight and support! Thank you both for sharing with me that this can be gotten through. That we can get past this.

I could have written this "It all hurts, H said he lied to spare my feelings and to try to salvage whatever he could of our relationship. I don't condone the lying (I detest it)but I can now understand and see it as his desperate attempts at trying to scrape together whatever he could to try and keep his hope for our marriage alive. " It sounds so much like us...I hope I can get to the point of scars and not a gaping wound. Right now it's bleeding still. Other than the passge of time...what can we do to heal the wound...mainly the hurt feeling and the sick feeling every time the movies are triggered and the jealousy of him with her? That is the hardest part. Loving him right now isn't...he's being a doting husband and we are connecting in new ways. But every time I think about them together it hurts and I can't seem to stop the thoughts. Any ideas?

Blessings!
Lori

ughhh!!! I know exactly what you are feeling/saying/talking about. As much as I hate hearing this I hate saying it but it is the truth: that it takes TIME. One day you just seem to arrive there.

I felt utterly tortured and repulsed by the idea of the A and it would come up randomly, always at the most inopportune moment. I really had to be careful of what i watched on tv even.

If you are religious or have any faith....I tried to fill my mind with scripture when negative, tortuous thoughts would pop up, trying to be counter active instead of letting it just eat away at me. Also tried to keep my mind busy with ohter things (tiresome, I know) so that the bad thoughts couldn't have a chance to creep in and recognizing potential triggers. Like for instance, for me, it was mostly @ night, right before bed at the end of a particularly draining day, I would feel weak and my mind would be weak. After recognizing that, I tried to take better care of myself or putting the kidlets to bed early sometimes, whatever works for you.

Sometimes there are main issues that are hiding in the depths of the anger or mental images that upset you. If you can try and focus on the real issues it might help also. Sometimes it's no longet the "fact" of the A that bothers me but something surrounding it.

It will get easier and your mind will be stronger. Hang in there.

I only have a minute as I am in school and have to hit the books. I just want to tell you that getting over the hard triggers, the sadness and the jealousy takes at least a year and sometimes two, but eventually they go away if you and your husband are truly and deeply committed to each other and to the marriage.

I am five years post D-day and I rarely if ever think about anything about OW or OC anymore, never feel jealous anymore, rarely feel sad or angry...unless we are forced off our normal day to day routine (ahhhh, boring normalcy...BLISS!) with her seeking money judgments through the courts just to be cantankerous....thus upsetting me. I deal with it and move forward.

It takes a couple years of steady normal stuff and a renewed, on-going, steadfast recovery before you will be willing to let go of your box of grief, jealousy and anger; containing triggers i.e. movies, songs, commercials, places, etc.; and don't forget the hurts-past and present, resentments and the all important record of wrongs. For now, it is comforting to hang onto that box and keep it ever present on the coffee table, nightstand, kitchen counter or where ever; handy enough to reach in and pull out your pain du jour for wallowing and venting purposes when you are feeling particularly confused and hurt. You'll know you've healed when you put it on the top shelf of your closet (waaaay in the back) and it has been there long enough, unopened, gathering dust.

Those analogies helped me get through my grieving process along with this site...and Retrouvaille! It is so Harley, even though he isn't connected to it.

I am so impressed your husband has signed the two of you up for a weekend in February. Their only requirement is that neither parties of the couple are currently involved in an affair or having contact with their OP and that neither party is using drugs or alcohol. Alcoholics cannot be actively using.

You'll be stunned at the jump start your marriage will get with this weekend. The best part is at the end when you present each other with your notebooks.

Good luck...you're doing all the right things. Watch those disrespectful judgments though...they can undo a lot of recovery if you give into them.

Hearing that healing takes time stinks. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I am actually marking the date off on a calendar each night and telling myself I lived through another day. I'm exhausted though. I'm tired of feeling bad so much of the time. Tortured and repulsed are such appropriate words to describe how I feel. I am kind of obsessive compulsive by nature, so this is more intense. It doesn't help that my h seems to have selective memory about some of the details and they keep changing or being remembered in new and inventive ways. And nothing comes voluntarily. I have to ask questions and I have to ask them just right or I get half of the answer. It's very frustrating! I can't make heads or tails about parts of their involvement, plus it's almost like there were two affairs. The one before he found she was pg and then when he started back up with her after the baby was born (almost two years ago). To hear him describe it....the second part was very much driven by fear and guilt. He didn't want to lose me and the marriage, so he continued to see her to not have her file for CS. It sounds believable. The pre pg part, he claims was a friendship that ended up becoming sexual. He claims that she was more like one of the guys, that he wasn't really attracted to her, that the sex happened because she groped at him and after stopping her once or twice, he gave in to his urges. Why he kept giving in for 8 mos or so is beyond him. Can he possibly be this dense? Is it possible that it was "romantic"? Is it possible that the sex was very one-sided, quickies, not emotional, not intentional? Or do I have "moron" written on my forehead? I found out today, that he was five miles or about 10 minutes from where I work. It's freaky. He was within two highway exits of my office when he was going to see her. Ugh! Talk about a new trigger. There is only one way to work and now I know he sometimes took that highway (two ways to her house, at least he usually didn't come by work) and I have to drive by the hospital where they met and started the a (she still works there, he doesn't). Two huge triggers...but weird things trigger me....seeing people kiss on TV, music, food (she's hispanic....I'm having the worst time eating mexican food right now). She resembles me physically (height, weight hair color, length...) She was in his car...I don't want to be now. I've questioned whether I have any control over this wallowing or not. Will that get easier with time? I hope so. It does help so much to hear that others do get past this...and that feeling jealous is normal...not just hurt or angry etc...I like the box analogy! I feel like it's this huge backpack and I pull something out to obsess about and then stuff it back for a while...but I feel like I'm carrying it around on me...I am hopeful hearing about how Retrouvaille will help. I have reservations about spending the money right now...I'm afraid to spend it on anything until we know what the CS damage will be...plus a lawyer and two counselors (his, mine and one will be ours). But I know we need to do this. The payoff will be there.

Thanks for the reassurance and the reminder...I may jump into the Love Buster Book soon instead of waiting to finish SAA. We'll see. I'm really having a hard time with that.

Thanks both of you!
Lori

All those triggers and lack of details, selective memory......are you sure your NOT me?

All the triggers are "wierd", that's just how it is at first. OW had short hair when they met. My H loves MY hair short and I had been wanting to cut it for awhile but after finding out that information....no way!!!! It took me a year and a half (and 2ft of hair!)to get comfortable enough again to finally cut it and having to go thru seeing OW get a hair cut every so often (not as short as mine is now though)

I had to throw away the clothes I was wearing when he told me. Had the car "thing", no longer have that car. I couldn't stand the idea of H sharing bed with me while being with her, made him throw away our mattresses. I used to get knots in my stomach just entering the city OW lives in, now not so often. (we have C w/ OC so we have to drive there often) I'm getting ready to pawn engagement ring and extra "piece" he gave me for b-day gift, just because he "loved" me, the same month he got OW pg!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Sometimes it's just better to eliminate the "triggers" altogether. At least what you can "control". I can laugh about some now, it's all so freaky. And everything has gotten replaced by something BETTER!

It gets better. Hey I'll even get a new ring eventually, or at least H will die trying to get a better (& bigger <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ) one anyway.

Yah very good "box" analogy. I'll have to remember that, I think my box is getting smaller. Or maybe our box is a limited size and you can replace the bad stuff with new memories because it can't hold everything, so you have to discard something negative for something positive. hmmmm...I'm gonna try that myself anyway.

I'm so glad I'm not the only one with the weird triggers. My wedding rings went to my parents house the day I found out...I told my h I'll wear the engagement ring again when he asks me to marry him again (too expensive to replace), but that I want a new band when we repeat our vows. For now, my very naked hand is sporting this cheesy little two heart ring he gave me for my 21st BD (I'm 34 now...) Harder still is the diamond earrings that I got this past summer for our 10th anniversary (the first REAL jewlery since my wedding ring) Now my anniversary seems so meaningless to me ... we took the weirdest tript to Las Vegas (our first real vacation together) we didn't have SF on our trip to Las Vegas, but she got it within weeks of our return. It all seems so fake to me. Could he mean those things he wrote in cards and such and still carry on with her. Thanks for reminding me that the triggers get replaced. The worst for me are actual physical...everytime he touches me (claims sf was very different with her, but that's so hard to believe), kisses me (claims only happened first few times they were in bed together that he didn't like and that she started it and that he gave her pecks good-bye when he left...hmm), tells me he loves me (claims she told him and he replied "I love you too" but that is was friendly not romantic and that he never said it first...hmm). Will my h stop being a trigger?

Wanted to bump this up, so you are not forgotten.

Catnip has done such a good job along with KT, I don't think I can add too much.

I can tell you the triggers lessen and it can be all over come. My H and I have come along way in 10 years. His affair was '92-'93.
The one thing that helped us was she lived 500 miles from us. I never met her and would not have known what she looked like except I found her letters to him and found pictures of her.
She was 23 and I was 39, that was rather disconcerting.
Good luck and don't give up. Catnip and KT are awesome with the advice.

Texasgirl

Thanks TX Girl. Unfortunately, we may have to move. Dallas has good opportunities for my h job wise and it's 5 hours from SA, so that would give me room to breathe. But it would mean leaving all of my family and I don't want to do that. After a really awful night Saturday night, we agreed on Sunday to make no decisions about jobs, moving, renewing our vows, etc, until the 6 month point. Things are so raw right now, I change my mind from mement to moment, depending on the triggers.....Saturday it was Chorizo...started to cook it for queso and remembered that my h said that OW's mom would make him Chorizo & eggs if they (she lives with her mom who knew he was married and didn't seem to care) fed him. Just started tripping all over the place. We were up until 6 am. Yuck!

Before you relocate to Dallas, check out Houston.
There are a lot of jobs coming open in Houston these days. We moved from the Dallas area to Houston. There was an article in the Chronicle about the job growth in the Houston area. Dallas suffered a lot from the computer tech setback. Check out both job markets before you move.
Houston is also only 3 hours from SA depending on which part of Houston and SA are involved.
Right now you are right, if they are supportive, you need your extended famiy. But don't let them know too much if they might find it difficult to forgive your husband his stupidity.
Take care,
Texasgirl