Albany~

I attempted to provide the link,(obviously w/out success) to Dr. Harley's column on Plan B in the Q&A section of the site. I pasted it here for you though, in case you haven't read it before. I apologize if it's being redundant, but I think it may help answer some of your concerns and questions as to what to do next.

Dr. Harley does address your concern of leaving H with good memories before moving to Plan B in his 3rd paragraph. I believe it's not too late to create warm memories though, without being a doormat.

I wish you well!

~ad


Plan B is for the betrayed spouse to avoid all contact with the wayward spouse until the affair has completely ended and the wayward spouse has agreed to my plan for recovery. In many cases, once an affair has ended, a betrayed spouse makes the mistake of taking the wayward spouse back before an agreement is made regarding marital recovery. This leads to a return to all the conditions that made the affair possible -- love is not restored, resentment is not overcome, and there is a very great risk for another affair. Without agreement and subsequent implementation of a plan for recovery, the betrayed spouse is better off continuing with plan B.

Since plan B (and plan A, for that matter), is extremely stressful for the betrayed spouse, I usually recommend that he or she ask a physician to prescribe anti-depressant medication to be taken throughout the crisis. This not only greatly reduces the suffering of the betrayed spouse, but it also helps keep a clear head at a time when patience and wise decisions are crucial. Anti-depressant medication does not numb the betrayed spouse to the crisis, it actually helps raise him or her above emotional reactions that would otherwise prevent clear-headed thinking. Why suffer and and make poor choices when anti-depressant medication can help ease your pain and improve your concentration in this time of unprecedented crisis?

While I have seen remarkable success by people using plan A and plan B, success is by no means guaranteed. The problem with Plan B is that the unfaithful spouse may not return, nor agree to the plan for recovery, even after the affair has ended. Separation in marriage is always risky because, "out of sight, out of mind." Unless plan A leaves the wayward spouse with the impression that returning home is an attractive choice, separation can become permanent. So before implementing plan B, you want to be sure that the last thing your spouse remembers about you is the care and thoughtfulness you offered in plan A. That way, the separation can help create, "absence makes the heart grow fonder."



As it turns out, most affairs end within six months of their seeing the light of day (being revealed to their family and friends), and almost all affairs end without leading to marriage. Even those few that end in marriage have only a 25% rate of success. That's because affairs are based on dishonesty and thoughtlessness for the feelings of others. That same dishonesty and thoughtlessness eventually turns on the lovers themselves, and the affair is destroyed by those same flaws that made it possible in the first place. What drives affairs is passion, not commitment, and once the passion wanes, there is nothing to help the lovers restore their passion. Marriage, on the other hand, especially with children, has many factors that motivate couples to restore their passion for each other after passion has waned. So when passion is gone from an affair, a wayward spouse is usually motivated to return to the betrayed spouse by all of these other factors. For most, it's a logical choice.

How do I leave warm memories if he won't interact with me or come around???


I really love you guys--right now you are all my lifelines.

Is it possible that H will never change and be who he once was.

By the way I don't think I mentioned that he left once before in May of 99--right have he had brain surgery for a brain tumor--he was 23.


Albany

Ok, time for a big strong Plan B. Get this separation done LEGALLY. Do not file the divorce papers. Get child support, etc. all set up. Get boundaries defined. If the house is jointly owned get it set up so that he can't just waltz in whenever he wants. Change the locks. But speak to an attorney on this. With his name of the deed or the lease, he would have right to come in whenever. Hence the need to set this up legally, so he can't come back and forth all the time.

Next. Start living your life. Go shopping, go to lunch with friends. Make sure your social calendar is full on his court appointed visitaion weekend. Get going. Go out dancing with a group of friends. HAVE FUN.

To me it sounds like he is just to afraid to face all he has done and wants to run away and hide from it all. Sorry, I know you love him, but what a baby. He can hide and cry he is "unhappy" all he wants. Guess what? It was never your job to make him happy. He has to find that in himself. You go and make yourself happy. Sure, you are going to be hurting and sad about loving a man who is in a messed up state. But guess what? You have done all you can. Short of throwing yourself at his feet, pleading and begging and swearing you will never hold him accountable for his behavior, he can do whatever he wants, as long as he comes home....... YUCK. Of course you don't want him like that. So move on.

He will be probably be angry. To bad. Until he grows up and faces all of his problems head on, he is never going to "be happy". At some point, if he is really afraid of losing you he will work it out with you and with counseling you and he can move forward and deal with the ow/oc together.

OR

He will cling to his "pooor me" attitude and hide from the damage he has done. In this case, every step you had taken to get yourself happy and ready to move on will serve you well. You will be prepared to move on with your life. You will have already staked your cs claim, etc in the courts so feel free to continue on with your life!!

I know it sound scary and you are afraid. Don't be. Anything would be better then letting him come and go at will. He says all he has to do now is get used to you with someone else? Ah, what a loser. But, don't do it quite yet. Get your bearings first. Get strong. Get your confidence going. Looking for a man to use as "see I have a guy" weapon will blow up in your face.

You take it one day at a time, get strong. And see what happens. Right now he KNOWS he can walk on you. He knows he can move his stuff back in next week and you will be there helping him carry it in. Wonder what he will think when the big safety net is gone?

Go take care of you.

How do you do legal sep.--is it expensive--will state handle CS as they do for divorce--that what they do here in Oregon if that is how you want it handled.

House is in my parents name--not in ours--H had to do bankruptcy for his business after his brain tumor. He has no claim to the house.

Albany

Dear Albany,

Yes, pretty impossible to create good, warm memories when he doesn't give opportunity. I guess what I meant, is when there is any type of interaction before Plan B, try your best not to love bust. I know it must be terribly difficult, and sucks that you have to be the one to take the high road, but try to keep your mind on the goal line...restored marriage.

It is a difficult balance, letting him know he canNOT walk all over you, yet be loving in your approach.

Keep the faith, and take good care!

<small>[ March 19, 2004, 12:24 PM: Message edited by: autumnday ]</small>

We both have gotten so bad at love busting--me when it is going so badly--I have forgotten how it use to be between us sometimes.

So I will turn on the charm and act as if I'm fine with it all and maybe he is done and hopefully by acting positive it will help me even if he is done.


Thanks again--keep the advice, thoughts, encouragement and hope coming you guys.
Albany

If the house is in your parents name, wala, change the locks!!! He can't just waltz in and out.

As for the Legal Separation. Yes it will cost money. However, most states have a legal aide division. Speak to them. Speak to the DA. Call around and speak to Divorce Laywers about all of this. The more you know, the better off you will be. Are you close to a law school? Call them and ask what to do, who to speak to about a legal separation. In anycase, by serving him, lets him know you are not going to be on stand-by while he has his hissy fit about the mess he has created. If he freaks at the separation papers, CALMLY tell him that you are doing it to secure financial support for your child in the event that oc is his.

Just keep your cool. And for gods sake, change the locks so you are free to have a pity me cry without intrusion!! Everyone should be allowed privacy. Him walking in at will would really tick me off.

I hope you coming here and venting and knowing we really do care about you helps. We don't even know each other, and I care. Imagine how much your friends care? Let them be friends and let them help you. Let them take you to lunch or for a swim or a hike or whatever. You make sure you find time in the day to pamper yourself and let your mind relax.

No, you shouldn't act as if you're ok with it all, because there is nothing to be ok with. Hence, another reason for Plan B, letting him know he cannot have his cake and eat it too.

Just try to keep the bad emotions about it all as separate as possible from your manner toward him. I'm not too good at this, and I sure don't want to steer you in the wrong direction. These are just some of the things I've seen and heard on here that ended with good results.

Actually most of my friends tell me to give up--he isn't worth it--they can't relate like you guys can.

You guys are my inspiration.

I really truly love him and my family.

I really really want to work but I don't know if he will allow it to even if he wants it too deep down.

Albany

Okay I know that I'm probably boring you all but has anyone had things go this far or get this out of hand and still have it work?


Are we sure it isn't to late??


Albany

Not boring in the least.

Yes there have been marriages that have gone as far south as yours has, and are now restored.

Check out the Recovery forum, Plan A/B forum, even the Divorce forum, etc. Many people on the brink of divorce have found their way back. Some even found their way back, after divorce.

There is hope, but there is a lot of work involved.

Only you can decide if your H is worth it, and if you want to try to restore your M. You are blessed to have such good friends to be looking out for you. Their support and input can be so valuable, but in the end, it is your life and your choices you will live with.

I think he is worth it--I'm just really scared that this is it and that plan B may not work and it is too late.

So tonight when he drops our son off do I not see him and stay in the living room until he leaves or do I see him and act rather charming and totally not upset by the situation?

Albany

E-gads, like I said I'm not too good at this.

However, from what I've read, since you are not officialy in Plan B yet...Tonight is a great opportunity to have a pleasant,(plan A type of) interaction with him. Don't be phoney about it or lay the charm on too thick, where he may take it as sarcasm, but be calm, pleasant... Let him see you cannot be rattled no matter what idiotic, foggy thing he may say.

Wish him a great time with your child. It wouldn't hurt to ever so carefee like, make mention of your wonderful plans for the weekend! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> Hey, you may want to be dressed up nice, make up on, hair done, all set to go out for the evening, BEFORE he arrives. Be kinda in a hurry, because you have places to go, people to see... Then actually go out, do something for yourself, as Lynn says!!

Most of all, SMILE <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> , (even if you're dying inside, he doesn't have to know it!).

I'll say a little prayer for you.

~ad

ps. This is just my 2 cents. I may be way off in my advice, if so, hopefully someone much wiser will be along to set me straight.

Oh shoot, Albany...dummy me, I read your post too quickly! I thought he was p/u son, not dropping off.

Still, you can use the same theory.

<small>[ March 19, 2004, 02:54 PM: Message edited by: autumnday ]</small>

albany,

I think that is good advice from ad, you can either be all done up, like you just got in, from a great dinner or something, or rush him out saying you have to get up early tomorrow to take your son on some outing or something like that, but even if you are, which I pray you are not, going to spend the whole weekend having a pity party - Don't let H know it!

Be pleasant, smile a lot, give him something to think about, oh why isn't she crying, looking sad, wanting me to stay & talk, & why is she rushing me out the door????

Sounds like a plan to me! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Babygirl93

Did you read back through all the posts since yesterday and read how it went last night???

Still think that there is hope???
He thinks he is all done.

I emailed you at your home address.

Anyway if you read this please reply--just wanted what you thought about last nights saga.

Albany

Albany,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Did you read back through all the posts since yesterday and read how it went last night???

Still think that there is hope???
He thinks he is all done.

I emailed you at your home address.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I did read over your post from how things went again, & yes I think H is in "a deep fog" & no I don't think that all hope is gone. Maybe he wants to think he is all done because it is easier to do so, he is most likely mad at you because he doesn't want to feel pressured by you in any way even though he is the one who helped bring this situation about.

During my 8 months of H living w/ OW I can't tell you how many times I made him "mad" & I thought that he would never come back - but he did. I know where you are right now, feeling like your heart will never mend, your world is in a shambles & it seems like nothing will ever be right again, & no it won't ever be the same again, but I believe it can be better & wiil be. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I didn't get your email, I am looking for it though. Hope you are doing alright.

albany~

Thinking of you. How did it go Fri. night? Have you made any moves toward Plan B?

Hope you are ok.

~ad

It is going well. Friday he arrived a bit later than he said but I didn't say anything---that was hard!

I was all dressed up and he wanted to know if I was just hanging out at the house with our Son or if I had plans--I said I didn't really know yet.

He kept asking and then he said well I guess it isn't any of my business.

I asked him to edge our yard on Sunday for me and he said that he would.

I said I had an appt with our MC on Wednesday afternoon. He made the comment that he was still going to see his IC--he acted as if he wasn't done.

Saturday morning he called and asked what I had done on Friday night--I said I had ran some errands and went shopping--then he said that he really called to make sure he could see our son Sunday evening after he got off.

When came over last night we were chatting and he had dinner with us. I said something about my parents who live within 1/8 of a mile of us noticing that he was working alot--that what they think anyway--he said well why don't you just tell them that we are having problems and that he isn't staying their right now.

He also asked me last night if I thought he was coming to MC appt. and I said no and he said that he wasn't because our MC told him not to come until he had seen IC a couple of times. I'm thinking if he was done then he wouldn't even then go to MC anymore.

So I guess it doesn't sound like he is done--does it to any of you???

I was charming lived in themoment and life was good--no arguements or demands.

Going good so far.

Seems like a little of Plan a & b.

Albany

albany, albany, albany...You just made my day!

This is excellent news. It may be a small, baby step, but it seems to be a step in the right direction!

You know what I like the best? That you took control of the situation. You didn't let what he said or did, dictate your response. It's so good to always remember that while we cannot control the other person's actions, we can control our own, as well as control our REactions.

Wow, I really need to dig up some old threads I found months ago about "Pulling a 180". I just think it would be so helpful to you.

Girl, you really got him thinkin' about what you were doing Friday night! I love that he asked on the spot, and then again on Saturday morning...ahhhhh, and then covering his tracks saying he really called about seeing his son. Love it!!

No, albany, he is NOT done yet. You keep up the good work, and hopefully he will NEVER want to be done.

Make deposits to his love bank, no matter how difficult it seems, and even if he's giving you diddly. Before long, you will not only be matching dollar for dollar to the OW, but more...much more!

~ad

Oh, and in the meantime, I would keep up the carefree attitude. Always be dressed up, and ready to go. May I suggest in the future... you tell him you were out doing something a little more glamorous than shopping and errands!?! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> (and then remember to actually do something glamorous, you deserve it!)

<small>[ March 22, 2004, 07:08 PM: Message edited by: autumnday ]</small>