ktbunch you told me to:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Set aside a specific time, like an appointment w/ H to "discuss" "issues" on your mind. Set a time limit. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Ok tomorrow is the day, 11:00 - 11:30 a.m. is the appointed time. I have soooo many things I want to bring up & so little time. My question is should I start with asking the major quesitons about OC visitation & limited contact w/ OW or let H not feel pressured by starting with issues only relating to us? I think I pretty much know where to start but I am looking for some advice.

Last nite I went to happy hr. w/ a girlfriend to celebrate her promotion at work, got in about 11 p.m. H was home & a little not happy about me being out drinking wanted to know who I was with & where, he never questions me, but I told him I was interested in someone else last month & that is sticking in his head. He has been better at home with me more attentive etc., but this morning I asked him about us spending Sunday together & he said he'd get back to me. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

That ticked me off a bit, but I didn't let him know it, if he has no time for me on sundday I am gonna not be happy & have to try really hard not to LB. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> I feel like I am walking on eggshells with him with this Plan A. It is not easy at all.

Any thoughts.....

Well, coming form a girl who can't even bleach her hair correctly...LOL...I don't know if I am one to really advise......

But I would go w/ whatever you feel most comfortable w/.

H is playing some games. The games we play, you have fun, I'll act jealous. I have fun you act jealous and it's all just a distraction from the REAL issue @ hand.

Just stick to the plan and don't let the pettiness distract you. Whatever you want answered the most---whatever is most pressing on your mind.

I would think--just off the top of my (orange w/ blue streaked) head-----that a C/NC/OC discussion would take WAY longer than 30 min. so you might want to save that one for another calm time when you can actually put in the time you need.

If you have faith-start working it. Pray and read your bible now to prepare your heart for tomorrow. You need the peace and self-control to not react w/ the old bad habits so that something new can be acomplished and a line of communicatin can stay open instead of being shot down.

I am a great communicator but my way of communicating makes me an expert on how to LB my H. SO I know how hard it is to change these old habits to fit the style of our H. My H style is a LB to me but we're both learning and working on it. It takes time to break the old habits.

If you can start communicating w/ the knowledge of what works best for BOTH of you then it will be better and easier for the communication to go BOTH ways instead of just "in one ear and out the other".

Ask whatever is most important to you right now. Then sit back and LISTEN to the answer---that might be what determines what ? will come next and it might lead in another direction entirely.

Let us know how it goes.

and RELAX, stay calm, and breathe.

KT,

Thanks, what is most important to me right now is the OC visitation issue, but I think I has better wait on that & maybe concentrate on the "us" issue for tomorrow at least. I have an excerpt from an email that was sent to me, (see below) I plan on giving that to H tonite to read before our talk tomorrow. Lord knows I need to meditate upon it too & read my bible more, focus on my relationship w/ God more that the current situation w/ H, that will help me a lot too. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

The game playing is not what I intended at all, but if it gets his attention, can it hurt? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />
I will keep you posted on what happens tomorrow.

Excerpt - The Joy of Facing Forward
Sadly, too many of us spend a whole lot Of our life looking at where we've already been. You know, dwelling on the past, rehearsing those past hurts, and past slights, past injustices.

And we can spend a lot of time looking backward - not just at things that have been done to us, but at things we've done. We keep rewinding those past failures, and past sins, and past mistakes. We can't seem to ever close the chapters that are already behind us. So, they're not over for us because, well, we keep dragging the past into our present and our future.

Isaiah 43:18-19 - God gets right to the bottom line: "Forget the former things; do not dwell on the past. See, I am doing a new thing! Now it springs up; do you not perceive it? I am making a way in the desert and streams in the wasteland." Stop looking backward - focus on the road ahead God says. Why? Because the past can't be changed. So, focusing on what can't be changed can only lead to paralyzing self-pity and shame and bitterness, despair, and depression. Focusing on the past is a recipe for hopelessness.

And God says, "If you keep dwelling on the past, you're going to miss the whole new thing I'm trying to do in your life!" This isn't living in denial - that means you've never faced the ugly things in the past, and frankly, there's no conquering them until you face them. But if you just keep dredging them up over and over, you're missing so much of what God wants to be doing in your life now.

That may require forgiving someone who wronged you - not because they deserve it, any more than you and I deserved Jesus' forgiveness. You'll do it because Jesus commanded us to follow His example and to release that person by forgiving them - leaving them to God to make it right, committing to treat them, not the way they treated you, but the way Jesus treated you. Closing the old chapter may mean claiming forgiveness for yourself, for the sins and failures you continue to replay. You stake everything on Jesus' promise - "I will forgive their wickedness and Will remember their sins no more" (Hebrews 8:12). If you've been to Jesus' cross with the sin of your past, it is no longer an issue to the One who died for that sin. Who are you to keep unburying it over and over?

You've been a slave to your past long enough. Let this be the day you claim a fresh new beginning from the Lord Jesus. Release all the darkness and pain of your past to the one who died to liberate you from it.
And focus on all the new things God is birthing right in front of you.

You'll be a whole lot happier looking at what's ahead of you than what's already behind you!

Well no good news. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Sat. morning before the "talk" H's cell phone starts ringing at 6:56 a.m., he had it on the floor in the bedroom, I was told he had it on cuz the baby is sick, has been sick all week. My response was that he should have told me, (we have had numerous fights about the cell phone being on 24/7), it would not have been a big issue if he had. OW is so stupid, you would not think she has 2 other children, supposedly OC has had a fever & constipation since last Monday. OC's dr. is my son's dr., I know the dr. would not have the child laying around feverishly hot & unable to poop all week!!

After that we did talk, he says he is gonna check into what happened with his court date for visitation, which I doubt he will. Nothing productive came out of the talk at all. Of course he asked me nothing, watched the clock like a hawk the whole time.

He insists that he is not leading a double life anymore & that I am self centered cuz his daughter is sick & I am complaining about the cell phone being on in our bedroom.

I once again told him if his daughter is that important to him he should be w/ her. I know I am not self centered, most women would have kicked him to the curb long ago. I understand his concern for a sick child, I am concerned too cuz if the baby is that sick for that long & her "mother" is not doing anymore than she is for her, I consider her unfit! And I really think she is using all these "times of sickness" to have H around more & of course he can't see it & doesn't want to. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

I have nothing else to say to him other than by notes, I asked him to leave & he won't so I do a plan B in the same house? Not possible I know but I am so TIRED!!!!

My only other option is to start divorce proceedings & have him removed by the sheriffs office since he wont' go voluntarily. I am not ready to do that mainly cuz I don't want to spend the $, why should I have to? Plus I don't have it. Also I still foolishly have a small glimmer of hope this can work, but I can't do it by myself. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

I don't know what to do anymore, this is going on a year of sheer hell & I don't know how much more I can take. My pastor preached about Faith yesterday & letting go of issues & letting God handle them, ignoring circumstances around you & trusting God totally, not throwing away a marriage based on what I see & how I feel. Sounds good - but try to live it. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Oh babygirl, I'm sorry.

Try to remember about the "talks", you are trying to establish new habits and break the old ones. This takes time. It doesn't happen over night and takes practice.

This was only the first time and H was probably on guard and on the defense so it takes time.

There is nothing wrong w/ having hope.

Maybe OW is playing games but there is nothign you can do to change that. Try to expect her games and then try not to let it get to you.

I completely understand all that, remember I am here putting up w/ OW games about OC too. I know it's hard.

What did you talk about? Did H give you any answers to the ??? you asked?

KT,

I am not even sure if we will have anymore "talks", I am so mad at him for being so stupid over this baby & the hoops OW has him jumping thru.

I asked him about visitation, he said he was going to see about it today, gave no reason for not looking into this sooner, he went to court 6 months for CS, never for visitation at all. So OC can't come over unless he sneaks her over! What a joke. I asked if he even wanted OC to be a part of OUR lives, he claims he does. I think he doesn't want to rock the boat w/ OW. He acts like he is scared of her. We also talked about time spent together & he kept bringing up the past & why we don't spend time together. (cuz i argue all the time)

He won't leave though, my question is why??? He doesn't want to work on us either, at least not as hard as he should, the baby has to come first, that is the way it is now so why would it ever change? If this was all new, I wouldn't feel so down about all of it, but after almost a year it just seems really hopeless.

Babygirl

Please don't give up.

I agree with KT--these talks and all this postive stuff is hard--look how I blew it this weekend--H was tense and then I fed off him and I was upset, hurt and then he fed off that and it got out of hand.

Don't give up--I'm going to MC appt. today--by myself--but for me.

Albany

He wants this all to go away thats why he is staying. He thinks if he ignores everything it will all fall into place. He is expecting you you to wear out and give up. It doesn't work like that, as you know.


You need more then 1/2 hour. I would say that you should hit him with the oc issue immediately as that is what is bugging you. As for sick oc, let him know that his mother should be taking care of oc and that since he lets this woman call 24/7, you expect him to at least give you 1 hour to talk.

If that doesn't work, then Plan B. I guess if this were me, and only my opinion, I would have him removed from the home. It is either work on the marriage or not. Time to grow up and deal or get on with your life. As long as he can, he will try to avoid it all. And you are letting him. Sorry.

As for the phone. I would find it and turn it off myself, all the time. I would also tell him that you consider her calling harrassment and you are going to press charges.

Oh, and when he said it was wrong for you to think of yourself and not oc, tell him to grow up. Nobody wants to see a child sick. But that is ow problem.

I would plan B.

LynnG,


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> He wants this all to go away thats why he is staying. He thinks if he ignores everything it will all fall into place. He is expecting you you to wear out and give up. It doesn't work like that, as you know.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I definitely agree with you, he is about the biggest conflict avoider I know, & no nothing is going to fall in place, Ihave told him that for months.

I know I may be asking for more than I could ever handle but I have no problem w/ contact with OC. OW is being a pill cuz H lets her. Yes 1 hr. is nothing to ask for as far as time to talk & since the baby has been sick she has not called, the call on Sat. morning was a wrong #. I just have a hard time believing the baby is that sick for that long, I think it is just another game OW is playing to cause a problem in our home.

I know that he is getting away with murder here, & he doesn't want it to stop, I guess I wouldn't either if I was that selfish. Having him removed from the home would cost me $ at this point that I don't have & yes he does need to grow up & soon, he doesn't want to face the reality of what his & OW actions are going to cost him & if he doesn't shape up real soon he is going to lose me. I have to think about myself & be "self centered" for a change.

Plan B is definitely around the corner, but I can't really do a Plan B w/ him in the home. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />


QUOTE] [/QUOTE]


You need more then 1/2 hour. I would say that you should hit him with the oc issue immediately as that is what is bugging you. As for sick oc, let him know that his mother should be taking care of oc and that since he lets this woman call 24/7, you expect him to at least give you 1 hour to talk.

If that doesn't work, then Plan B. I guess if this were me, and only my opinion, I would have him removed from the home. It is either work on the marriage or not. Time to grow up and deal or get on with your life. As long as he can, he will try to avoid it all. And you are letting him. Sorry.

As for the phone. I would find it and turn it off myself, all the time. I would also tell him that you consider her calling harrassment and you are going to press charges.

Oh, and when he said it was wrong for you to think of yourself and not oc, tell him to grow up. Nobody wants to see a child sick. But that is ow problem.

I would plan B.

Last nite H & I talked for over 2 hours, he is awating a court date for visitation.

OC is feeling better so no more cell on 24/7. He says he doesn't open up to me like he used to, before A cuz I make him feel uncomfortable. What a cop out. I know that my demands, argueing etc. have put a strain on having a calm discussion about all this but a person can only take so much & I am about fed up w/ all this.

We talked about taking a weekend trip in May for our 8th wedding anniversary & really working on us. Counseling didn't come up but that is a must, that will be addressed during our next talk.

I don't want to get my hopes up since so many times we have talked & had a positive outcome & nothing changed, he didn't do what he said he would, & he can't understand why I doubt him?

So the saga continues for now. It is so hard to stay positive & have faith that this will all work out. I just pray that I am not wasting time w/ him. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

BG93,

I hope that everything has gone better in the past few days. H should remember and take into consideration that you are the one that has a lot to deal with. Finding a way to get him to realize that OW will use the OC anyway that she can to get closer to him or th just jerk you (BS)around.

This is a situation that will have to be dealt with very carefully. This is why I feel that no contact with OC is so important for me. I know that I could not allow these things to go on.

We ahve small children ourselves and upsetting our household for OW/OC would be a disaster.

I don't know what to tell you exactly because I am new to this situation, but in reading different links and websites I have found that H has to understand the problem. If H has no real clue as to what the problem is then he can not possibly change it.

This could possibly a life committment to dealing with this type of problem from OW.

Are you really willing to go that mile? Or better yet is he willing to go that mile to keep your marriage flourishing in the right direction? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Will be praying for you.

JT

<small>[ April 05, 2004, 12:38 PM: Message edited by: JT2 ]</small>

Hey JT2,

Thanks for the post. I did not have a good weekend at all, I am about to compose a Plan B letter to H. Can't take it anymore. Not worth it.

Yes I strongly agree with NO CONTACT ever!!!!! If this OC belongs to your H, I would advise pay CS & be done with it, let OW deal w/ OC by herself. If thats sounds cruel to anyone, too bad. Most not ALL of these OW's only have OC to break up some other womans home but trying to take something that doesn't belong to them. So if you value your marriage, nip this in the bud & let it go no furher. If wish I had of turned running two years ago!

Hey,

I'm so sorry about this weekend. I can only say that I feel it can only turn out bad for you if H has contact.

I have kids and a step son and I know that it would be detrimental to my marriage and to our children if we allowed another woman and her child to become a part of that.

I feel that it is not fair for my kids to suffer the consequences of my H actions and in turn it is not fair to me.

That would be a slap in the face everyday. I can not live like that. I know it must have been hard for you to do it.

If H could be open with you about any dealings with OW and OC it might be a little better, but I don't see that happening. I'm sorry if I sound so blount (this is only my opinion).

You must soul search and decide what is best for you. It sounds like this makes H distant from you and closer to her, is this the type of marriage that you want?

I want to come first always or at least have our family first. That is the only way that I see to rebuild, we have no room for games and OW would surely play them.

Keep praying <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> If H could be open with you about any dealings with OW and OC it might be a little better, but I don't see that happening. I'm sorry if I sound so blount (this is only my opinion).
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That is the whole key right there, he seems to think this is a game, & that he has all the time in the world to make things right, but he doesn't.

I am done.

Take your time and search your heart for it is not easy. Make sure that you can do no more to help him. It is time for him to step up to the plate.

Just take some me time for yourself, to figure things out. Don't rush into anything one way or another.

JT

Jt2,

Thanks for your words of encouragement, I just feel like I have nothing left to give, without being a total doormat & a fool.

H is so deep in the fog he may never come out, & OW & OC are with him so he is just fine.

I am very angry w/ him & I know he thinks it will pass like all the other times. He has a whole year come 4/13/04 to have worked out visitation w/ OC if nothing else, & he hasnt' - why, I can only assume that no one is bothered by this current situation except for me.

So I am writing the letter, I will pray over giving it to him today, but I have a strong feeling if it is not today it will be before the end of the week.

BG,

I believe that you are strong woman and have put up with H's behavior because you love him and believe that it can work. but if you feel that enough is enough no one would blame you.

However you must make sure that this is what you want and can live with.

I have made several rash decisions and they have back fired on me.

H is not going to change anything unless you let him know what you are or are not going to tolerate. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

H has gotten use to you being so supportive that he expects you to no matter what. Your marriage is paying the cost.

Is your happiness the price that your willing spare?

Think about it this has been going on for sometime now has it not?

I am only playing the devil's advocate so you can take a clear look at what has been happening to you in your marriage.

Consider it!

JT

JT,

My first rash decison was to throw H out on D-Day, that sent him running to OW to live with. Maybe if he had never lived with her through pg. & childbirth, frist 5 months of late nite feedings etc., it wouldn't be so hard for him to let go of all the contact he has enjoyed w/ OC. I am not making excuses for his actions at all. He knows he is hurting me & he continues to do it, but he can only do to me what I allow.

will I be sad once he is gone, sure, but I know I can live without him, & life will go on, it is his loss. OW will never be the woman that I am baby or no baby, he will see that one day, it will be too late of course, but I know I have done ALL that I could to put this back together, so I will sleep at nite, more peaceful that I do now that is for sure. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Yeah you are right I have been going through this for too long of a time.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I know you are probably tired of hearing, "hold on it will get better" but that is what I am telling you, the same thing I tell myself everyday. You know it is not easy for me to say this to myself, I can't tell you how many times I have asked him to leave in the last year, asked him for a divorce, I have even packed his clothes, obviously he doesn't want to leave or divorce me & I don't want it either or I would file & have him put out.

Try to hold on Kris, go to those sites I told you about, they helped me on many a dark day </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hey BG93 - just giving you back some of your own advice. Don't give up too soon. Remember things are not done by our timetable, but Gods. Don't let your fear, frustrations, hurt feelings, etc get in the way of what you want. If its your marriage you want - then you fight girl!! Set some boundaries for that H of yours and make him stick to them.

I know you have been down a long, hard road. Your words and faith inspire me. Please don't give into the temptation to give up. We both know where that comes from.

I don't know what to tell you. This is all way too new to me. But keep the faith and pray for strength to make the right decision. God will not steer you wrong.

You are in my thoughts and prayers,
Kris

Hey Kris,

Thanks so much for reminding me of what I am fighting for with my own "words of wisdom".

I did give him a Plan B letter last nite of course he doesn't want to leave, doesn't want to give up so he says. We talked awhile & kinda left things up in the air. I am so tired of having the same conversations with nothing being resolved.

There are some things I refuse to put up with any longer & he knows what they are. I told him you say you don't want to give up but you are not trying either. My biggest LB w/ him right now is that I go through his things & I tell him when I do, well duh if he was honest with me I wouldn't feel the need to do that, do I feel good about it - no, but who wants to live w/ someone they feel they can't trust & is not honest?

I don't know what today will bring, he text messaged me this morning, just to say hello, has never done that, he knows I am done & ready for him to go. I didn't respond. All I want to hear from him is that he is going to court for visitation, cutting contact w/ OW unless absoulutely necessary, that he will spend more time working on us & including me in his time spent w/ OC & that we will go to counseling. If he can't do all of those things, he can leave.

Do I still love him & want my marriage to work, sure I do, but sometimes love isn't enough. I told him this is in God's hands now, I can't do anymore.

Thanks for your prayers, I sure do need them.

How are you doing?