by KrisM: I wish I could talk H into going away for awhile. I think that would do us a world of good.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> What!!??? Why wouldn't he? Is it $$$ or something else? You definately have to do this. If it is something that YOU want to do then you guys should do it. What can it hurt? Can you surprise him w/ a weekend get away or even just 1 night?

I'm sorry I forgot where you are @ w/ all of this. Is H @ home or living out of the house?

Either way, if it is something you would like to do then I think you should. If $$$ is the issue then have a yard sale and then go for just 1 night.

This site might have some creative ideas, well there is a forum w/ a thread titled "creative ideas" so yah duh. It's a fun site, if your "in the mood". <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> www.themarriagebed.com

Maybe you could bribe him in some way....... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Where am I in all this? Still in limbo land. H is still living in apartment. About a month ago, I called OW and brought to her attention all lies we have both been told. According to H, the phone call basically ended the A. Since then OW has begun to get a little nasty w/ H concerning OC. Briefly after I found out that he lied about taking OW away for a weekend trip, I felt I had had enough and was finished. However, some very good friends here made me realize just what I was fighting for.

I have since backed off and am waiting for H to make some decisions. I guess until he comes home or at least makes some effort, I feel there is not much I can do but be supportive and caring (Plan A). H is home everyday to help out with kids until I get home from work. We see each other alot and have had some good conversations. I don't bring up A or OW. If he wants to talk about it, I let him bring it up. Right now he seems to be a very angry person. Not sure what to make of that. Some days things look positive, but other days he will make comments that make me feel like he doesn't want to stay married. I think he has seen a different side to OW. He has even said that my phone call probably only helped speed up what was going to happen in the end.

H seems to have this attitude that he is some horrible person and that maybe he deserves to be alone. That maybe we would all be better off without him. I think he also fears that OW will cause problems with him being with OC. I have tried to reassure him that his family still loves him and that I am here to work out our problems when he is ready to make the effort. That is the problem. At this point he is not willing to try. Therefore, I don't think he would be too willing to go anywhere with me. Two weekends ago, I asked for a date night. H decided to stay at house and rent movies - which was nice. Sometimes I just think that he doesn't want to been seen with me, or he is afraid to spend time alone. I try not to read too much into things at this point. I know he is hurting. I just am not sure if he is hurting over problems in M or loss of OW.

Thanks for the post kt.

God Bless,
Kris

I just got an email from H and wanted to know what you think. I had emailed him a devotion earlier and told him I was worried because he was so angry. I told him he needed to turn to God for help with this. Here is his response:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I know I was cleaning and here lays the bible. I just don't trust what I
feel anymore. We have had some nice days lately. There is a part that
still wants to be else where. I find it hard to think about us doing things
with the oc, would be very awkward at your folks for holidays.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So, what do you think? Is there hope? Part of me sees things like this and says yeah we will be okay. But then there is the part that says he wants to be elsewhere (with OW). I just don't know.

God Bless,
Kris

Okay this is part 2 to another response I just received:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I just don't know anymore. (A friend) said people have figured out who dad is,
and part of me wants to be a part of this whole thing. I remember our 2 and
feel like I am missing out. Like I said I still have feeling for her too.
I feel I have gone to far away to come back. Don't know where I belong
either.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Any other thoughts? I think I just lost a little hope!!

Kris

One last email for tonight:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">a better marriage, I have been playing what if for so long with everything I
just wish it would end. I have days when you seem right and then days when
I feel like should stay where I am and let things fall where they do.
I am not in a fog over (OW) I have real feelings for her. I have been
terrible to both of you.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am so confused. What do you think??

Kris

WoW! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> IMHO, I think your H is getting a grip on some reality.

....Not wanting to "trust what he feels anymore", well that could work in your advantage because we all know that those wishy washy feelings are what got us into this mess. His feelings for OW will fade(as it sounds like they already are)......and fast, then his feelings for you will come rushing in to fill up that space/void. (that's all OW did, fill a need that he was missing)

He feels like he is missing out on his 2 BC w/ you. yah duh! He will miss out on them if he stays away and/or ends the marriage that is reality. If it's possible for you to mention that in a NON-LB way BUT w/ the idea that it does NOT have to be that way.

..Doesn't "know where he belongs"....?? According to the WORD of God, he belongs in his marriage. That is a simple one, you can only be blessed when you choose to get back on the right track and do God's will for your life.

I think that you can start to be encouraging to him to make the right decision and to come back home.

How about saying things like, it will be so nice when you are back home and you can tuck the kids in bed...or something to that affect. OR the kids can't wait until you are back home to tuck them in again. OR they are looking forward to the day you move back in and can tuck them in again.....whatever, I am trying to make it sound as positive as possible and not like a demand.

I would say those things in an upbeat way, almost like you KNOW he is gonna come back. I really think he will start to believe it himself and it will start to happen.

I would say things like, your planning to cook his favorite dinner, in celebration when he moves back in. You can't wait for him to return and you 2 will be able to have a private celebration....whatever works.

You can be coy, flirtatious, friendly, upbeat, encouraging, whatever works for you and your H.

You can guarantee that OW was doing ALL these things to get H and you can do it too. Use what you have and remind your self how to use it. It's not tricking him or something, it's what you really want and what you should really be doing anyway.

You can make him want to be back w/ you and kids. Encourage kids ot draw himpictures of all of you, as a family, tell them they love him, make him cards saying how much they miss him, whatever. Let him know that he is needed & loved by everyone.

Yes, if C is chosen it will be awkward and abnormal but if it is what he wants the......he has every right to it and there is some experience here (w/ me) to set you on a good legal course of asserting those rights to get it. If he wnats to be invovled in OC life---NOONE can stop him, he has rights.

The comments he is making makes me think you have more hope because he is sounding more realistic and less of the fog/fantasy-like dreaming.

As a Christian you can remind him of his salvation and how there is nothing irrepairable or unforgiveable to God. Remind him of David or whoever from the bible that he can relate to right now.

We are human and God expects us to act that way. WE all know that. God knew all of this and He knew that OC would be concieved and born, for what purpose?, even I am still struggling w/ that, but I know God knew and planned OC birth.

You know your H so you can use and say whatever you think he would respond best to. I think you so far, have a good grip (and some very good self-control) by not bringing up OC & OW unless he does and that is probably helping him to see/think clearly on his own.

I think WS all go through the "it's too bad to be forgiven" stage, @ least I know my H did. Even though we need all the reassurance, they need it @ that point. We get ours once they are back and committed to the marraige completely and then we have our whole lives to get it.

Keep reminding him how much you love him and you can't wait until he moves back in so you can celebrate.

(personally, knowing what I know now, I would show him something "cute" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> that I am saving to wear upon his return when we have our personal celebration!)

Is OC born yet? If not then your focus need only be on CS for your kids and getting H back into the home. C/NC can be dealt w/ later.

PS: about it being hard/awkward for your parents...yah it might, at first but if you have good parents, they will take their cues from you. My parents have been unbelievable w/ OC. They act normal and just accepted what was. They treat OC exactly like BC, the good and the bad. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> I'd be more concerned w/ BC feelings about this then the adults in the situation.

I think you are doing great and keep it up.

kris,

I totally agree w/ KT, I think your H is maybe feeling a lot of guilt & confusion over all this -but bottom line is he is not ready to walk away from your & your children.

Keep doing your best plan A & reminding him how great things will be once he is home! It may seem hard at times but I think your H will definitely come back to you & your M will be stronger than ever! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Like I told Albany it ain't over til GOD says so! And our GOD hates divorce.

Thanks kt - You have given me alot to think about and work on.

There is one part of H's email that I interpreted differently then you and it really worries me.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">(A friend) said people have figured out who dad is,
and part of me wants to be a part of this whole thing. I remember our 2 and
feel like I am missing out. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I don't think H was referring to missing out on our kids. I think he was referring to missing out on the things he experienced with our kids with OC. I think he wants to be a part of this pregnacy and bringing up the baby as he did our kids. But that means that he will then be choosing to miss out on the lives of our BC. He can't have it both ways - he can't be a fulltime dad to all three.

I talked with H tonight. He just keeps saying that he quit on us and that he went too far. He feels that there may be no turning back. Says that he dreamed of a long time about leaving - even before A. That was a real boost for the self esteem. If that is how he feels, then I am not so sure there is anything I can do to stop that.

Thanks for your thoughts and advice. Keep praying for H and me.

God Bless,
Kris

kt - I wanted to ask you about how you told your kids about OC and how did they handle it. I worry so much about how this all will effect them. How are they ever going to understand at 8 & 5 that they have a new sibling and Mommy is not the mom? It confuses me. I really don't know how they will ever understand.

OC is not due until Sept.

Thanks again.

Kris

<small>[ April 28, 2004, 09:21 PM: Message edited by: KrisM ]</small>

First about H, as annoying as it might be, if that's what that email meant then I think H needs your reassurance right now that it is all repairable. I think he is just crying out and waiting for you to give him the excuse that he could/should go w/ OW to be w/ baby. Which is totally stupid. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

What? He's gonna go w/ baby and then miss out on your 2? That is just stupid and I would not be able to avoid LBing about that. You have more self control. They try to think they really can have it both ways-------uh hello--real life here, consequences.....it's one or the other just like the woman, one or the other. He can never be a full time dad to 2 families-IMPOSSIBLE--but he can salvage what he already has and then try to be the best he can be to the OC --just have to work WITH the situation instead of against it.

Last night I think my H got a little dose of this same kind of thing and felt bad too. I was talking w/ OC and she mentioned that her mom (OW) needed to have a H. And OC said that she told her mom, "I want a daddy, I want a daddy". Then I corrected OC that she has a daddy and OC said, but my mom doesn't have a H.

I know exactly what OC meant. OC meant that she wanted a daddy in her home, married to her mom. I explained that even if OW got married, OW H would NOT be OC daddy. I don't know if OC 'got it' or not.

I told my H and it kind of hurt him----the reality of it --and he was like I wish OW would get married then OC will have a dad, and I'm like well we know that will never happen and if it does it doesn't mean you can just walk away now, your relationship is established and you are her dad, nothing is going to change that now. But his point too was that it would be better for OC to have a dad in the home and so it would be better if OW ever got married and that man could be a "real" dad to OC. I just told him you have to make thebest of the situation you are in and be the best dad you can to OC in THIS situation.

I mean, there is nothing we can do about that now. We're here, duh! hello everyone! wake up! THIS is real life and this is what you deal w/ if you have C w/ OC. OC will have 1/2 a mom and 1/2 a dad, that REAL life!

This is all just so crappy!!!! for ALL the kids, which brings me to the next subject.......the BC.

So far we really only had to "explain" it to our oldest who is 11yo right now but was 9 when we met OC. In person he reacted like nothing. We had been separated because of this years before so we had a referance point for BC. We told him, remember when we lived w/ so&so and daddy lived w/ nana? This is why...blah blah blah, daddy did something wrong, pretended to be married (that's what we call people who have children or sex out of marriage) to another woman and so you have a sister, I don't remember the exact exact words but it was something like that.

BC was just like "ok" and had just a few ??? in the next few days after he thought about it, like how did dad have time to spend w/ this girl? (OW) which really meant how did he meet her and where, we told him it was someone he worked w/ and he saw her @ work and then he asked "how come I am 9 but my sister is 4?" yep, try explaining that one......... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

So on the outside he looked ok and treated OC very sweetly when we first met her. Then as time went on......BC #1, I can now see, became very depressed. He had insomnia for months, was very mood swingy, w/ outbursts of anger and severe frustration, crying, over what seemed like nothing.

The affects I have seen C be on my own children is one of my main reasons for advising NC to anyone else.

The 3 yo (almost 4) was 2 when we met OC and he had is own toddler issues too. He would go back and forth between "hating" daddy & "hating" OC. He would get extra clingy to my H & possesive of H when OC was around. He is better now but still.....he craves ALL of OC attention when she is here and gets his feelings hurt easily if OC ignores him or doesn't want to play w/ him. He tries extra hard to play w/ her by choosing OC (girl) toys, that he never plays w/ otherwise and gets hurt then angry when she doesn't want to play w/ him. This might sound normal but it's not, he does not act like this w/ his older brother. But these 2 (OC & BC#2) get along the best.

So I don't envy that talk w/ your BC. I am very heart broken over what this did to my BC and what affects it may have on the younger 2 as they get older and realize the truth of the situation. I think my oldest still struggles but won't really talk about it anymore. He is mostly indifferent to OC, they still play together but it's not the same as w/ his other siblings. I feel there is a wall between the oldest and my H and I now. He has said, he knows it's not OC fault but still wishes OC was never around. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

And that kind of sums it ALL up.

I would NOT tell BC at all unless/until a relationship w/ OC is defineately going to be established.

<small>[ April 29, 2004, 10:26 AM: Message edited by: ktbunch ]</small>

PS: depending on if your BC is a "young" 8 or an older 8....one thing I would do different is to tell BC WITH the help of a counselor or therapist (a good one) so that issues can be addressed right then and there and even after if they come up. A nuetral 3rd party would have been more helpful.

We asked BC if he had any ??? at the time but he was just like "no". But I should have known because he(BC) is more of a "private" one so it would have helped us w/ a 3rd party who could be unemotional and thinking clearly.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I feel there is a wall between the oldest and my H and I now. He has said, he knows it's not OC fault but still wishes OC was never around. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">KT that is so sad, I wish more people would think before they create these situations & stop being so selfish, I know most OW don't care, if any do at all, about the devasatation they will cause bringing OC into the world, I know they don't care about the W & destroying her world - but if they only thought of the BC's & how they would feel if some OW did this to their family & BC's. Oh I forgot they can't get a man to marry them & have to try & take one that already is! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

Not to let H's off the hook - they need to stop getting caught up in the "so called passion" or whatever it is they think they are in during the A that they stop or are not using protection (yes I know condoms fail) no matter what OW says she is doing to not get pg. Of course if they were not having an affair at all none of this would be an issue, in a perfect world - right....

Things are not going so well at the moment. I am so tired of being the only one putting any effort into this M. I am getting nothing from H in return, and I am finding myself thinking that just maybe it is not worth the fight anymore.

Talked to H tonight and asked him to consider going to retrouvaille weekend the 14th-16th. He might as well have laughed in my face. Going for the weekend would have to mean giving up his precious softball/baseball games. Heaven forbid his marriage be a priority. I am so tired of being last on his list.

He says he is having trouble with the idea of having a baby with OW and not me. I tell him that I am willing to work at it and we will survive. He won't even give us a chance. I start crying, he says he has screwed up again. I tell him to just leave and go to his softball game. I will be fine without him.

I am just so tired of being the only one trying!!! He reads here sometimes and thinks I am crazy to buying into the hope of recovery. Maybe I shouldn't anymore.

Any advice, encouragement? I sure could use it tonight.

Thanks for listening,
Kris

oh D@!!!! I just erased everything I wrote! ARGHHHHH! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

Any way, is there a Retrouvaille weekend that won't coincide w/ his games?

H must have a high recreational need? yes? Have you both done the emotional needs questionnaire?

I am sorry I will write more when I have more time, since it all got erased!sorry.

There is not another Retro. weekend locally until Sept. I am not sure we can wait that long, and I am sure he will still be playing ball. Besides OC is due sometime around then so he will be occupied I'm sure. No time for his real family. We are not his priority.

Yes, recreational sports are important to him. Far too important if you ask me. I don't mind him playing every once and awhile, but 2 to 3 nights a week is a bit much. This is one of his complaints - that I don't support him enough by going and watching. I tried for awhile, but it is difficult w/ 2 little ones. Kids and I went to his first tournament of season. I'm not sure if he was happy to see us or not. I was trying to be supportive, but not much of a response. I don't know if it meant anything to him or not. I could have went to watch tonight, but I didn't know about it until he was leaving. Funny how he doesn't share his schedule anymore. Sorry, I am having a really bad night.

I have filled out EN questionnaire, but he has not. I didn't share mine with him, and did not push him into completing one. It was about the time he decided to move out. Besides, like I said, I don't think he agrees w/ MB concepts. I don't think he believes in anything that would help us. He seems to have his mind set that it is hopeless. NO EFFORT!!

Thanks for reply kt.

Talk to you more later.
Kris

Kris,

I am sorry things aren't going so well w/ H. Are you doing Plan A or attmepting to?

My H won't go back to counseling me & we need it so badly, but it is not important to him so I am going for myself. What else can I do?

I am praying for you still.

Oh what the hay! H works late tonight anyway so I've got time.......

Any way, I am sorry. My H used to be like this sometimes too.

So H is still living out of the house? It's hard to keep trying when you get no encouragement or feedback. I can't relate exactly since H was never physically out of the home, just mentally and emotionally. Which is worse?

I know it's hard to go to the games w/ little ones. My H likes to play paintball, (hasn't gone for awhile now though) and 11 yo goes w/ him so it's good bonding for them BUT he always wants me to go. ???? There is NOTHING for us to do there, NOTHING & w/ the little ones? they want to run around and get bored but for some reason he just LOVES when we all go!

I would try to go anyway. I know, you don't feel like being supportive right now but H is @ a weak place. Why not show him what he is missing? Go to the game, have the little ones cheer the loudest for daddy. You be the best, loudest, hottest looking, most supportive wife out there!

My H also used to play softball (so I can relate to that too) and not that many wives would show up, but the H were real impressed w/ the ones that did! I don't know why but men love their women to be there (wherever that is) to support them.

Pack whatever you need to satisfy the kids, lots of snacks ect, a ball, the stroller, blankets. Make a picnic out of it. They'll have fun. Then when that game is over and H has all that adrenaline coursing through his veins........where will all that energy go? To the hot woman who came there just for him. It might take a few games (for him to believe and trust you) but he will eventually see that you are serious and admit how much he enjoys seeing you there. After the game, go out for pizza or something or an icecream!

Don't complain about it, make home someplace he WANTS to be and he WILL start spending more time there.

Yes, I do think it's excessive, don't get me wrong. But right now your priority is to get him back. If you were not married and dating, you know you would take every opportunity you could to see your BF/lover. There was nothing that could keep you 2 apart (except maybe dad!LOL) So think of that.

You can do this. I would even get off the computer and go right now and surprise him (if theres still time) and bring him a pack of sunflower seeds and a giant bottle of his favorite gatorade!

Go for it! You can do it. Don't give up!

Well girls, I think I am done venting here.

I told my H about this site in hopes that he might find some help, good advice, etc. All he seems to do is read my posts and use my venting against my cause. Apparently, he has hurt me so much that he probably will not come home - my words, not his. He just reads about all the hurt and thinks it can't be fixed. Apparently, he can't see how much I love him and would do anything to save our M and our family. The family God intended us to have and raise together. Apparently he doesn't hear the words I tell him about how I can see it all working out for us and how we could be stronger in the end. I believe that with all my heart. All he can see is the pain. I guess I am not suppose to hurt. At least I am not suppose to turn to people who may be able to help. I guess I am just suppose to forgive and forget. At least forget. I can't forgive something that H is not sorry for. If he is, he is not telling me. Apparently, it is just better to take the easy route and walk away. Walk away to a new family and dispose of the old. Sorry Dear that is just how I feel - maybe I am not suppose to feel either.

Well, Darling, if you are reading this, I do feel. I feel love for you. And yes I feel the pain you have caused. But guess what? That pain would go away alot sooner if you would just help me. I am still filled with love and hope for us, but I can't do this alone!!

I am going to stop now before I start to vent again. I will just suppress the hurt, put on my happy face, and live life - whatever that means.

Thanks to all my friends here for all the advice, encouragement, and listening. You are the best and I wish the best for you all. I will keep reading, but I am not so sure I will post again. I don't want to cause anymore pain for my H. I would hate for him to read about the reality of life anymore.

God Bless you all,
Kris

Kris,

I am sorry that you feel like you can't post anymore, I hope that you don't.

If you have an email you would like to share we can talk that way. I just hate to see you go thru this alone w/ no one talk to who can truly understand what you are going thru.

Mine is: brenda4everblessed@yahoo.com

Take care, we will miss hearing from you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Kris,

I am sorry to see you go too. I hate that your H does not see that you love him and want him. If you didn't you would not be here in the first place. You could just move on a without even looking back.

Please keep your head up and know that you are loved and cared for here. If we can do anything please fel free to let us know.

We are all here for ou girl!! no matter what!!


JT