You had me a little nervous there at first!

This is easy...

Keep doing what you're doing. You've been awesome with the no LB'g and not being clingy, etc, etc.

However, as sure as the sun will continue to rise in the east, he will once again say he's done, (frankly I'm sick of it...can't he be creative for a change? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> ).

I'm dead serious when I say you should prepare for Plan B in the meantime. He may make a sudden turn around, and hey, I'd be the first to hoop and holler and high five you if he did, but I just don't see it happening soon. From all accounts, you seem to be doing things right, but he's not there yet.

It really irks me that he says he doesn't think he can be happy with you, yet he's ALWAYS hanging around. Damn, he must really be miserable by now! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

I think he is such the perfect candidate for Plan B. If he thinks he's unhappy now, just wait...

I'll shut up now.

The update--just smile and shake your head.

H comes over Saturday hangs most the day and we go to lunch as a family -he leaves around 5. I then went down to visit my mom and end up staying there until about 10:30pm. During this time H calls about 4 times-the first to see if I would make zuchinni cass. for him Sunday--I said yes if you get zuchinni's because I was out. The last time he called was about 10:15 to see what we were doing.

Doesn't come over yesterday until about 3:30. Lists some things on ebay and changes the fuel filter on my car and during this I make zuchinni cass. Then I tell him that I will go take care of my horse and I give him a hug and he gets all offended. I asked if that made him mad and he said yes and I said why- because we aren't together. I said oh and it is okay to ask me to make you cass. take us to lunch etc and call me all the time.

I then left--fuming mad. Took care of my horse-came back and told him if he was done that i would appreciate it if he left--why he wants to know and I kindly explained to him that his behaviour was BS and didn't match. I'm tried pf you talking about we--must be the turd in your pocket and tried you asking my advice and approval on things if we aren't together.

He said he was planning to take some of the left over money that WE were going to put up to get a lawyer and see about getting OW to sign away his rights--they seemed scared because we have enough on her and her family to porbably get the child--horrible living conditions etc.

We then talked about us and he said we are just friends--that is all he sees us as--that he use to be jealous to think of me with someone but now he is fine with it because I'm unhappy and he wants to see me happy and that we could still be friends.

I asked what made him happy and he said his trucks that he builds and four-wheels and I said there is alot more to happiness then material things and you have no inner happiness. IMO also the whole friend thing and me being unhappy is just him trying to pass the buck with us working on it and make me leave.

I said you know three weeks ago you were full of energy and happy and busy-doing a ton of things--and then you crashed-I said I don't htink you were faking it--I think that you have ups and downs like most people and you take the downs as not being happy and needing to get out and find soemthing different. I told him that he need to deal with him first.

He agreed and said he would really do that before making a decision with us.

I'm not going to let him stop by all the time like he was and I'm going to ignore his phone calls--my a** it is just friends and don't get to pick and choose the benefits of a wife--it all or nothing.

Don't all think the friend thing is BS and don't you think him saying he wants me to be happy because I'm not with him is just him running from his responsibility and part in this whole thing?

I think it is a bunch of BS. I mean do you buy the just friends--I mean it seem that we may be just friends why we rebuild--hello a ton has happened.

Okay, maybe I should just go--maybe I should just give up and tuck my tail and go when my H says that he only sees as friends--I want more than that--or maybe that is part of the re-growth process. Part of me is so worn out that i just feel like I should give up. Yet part me says stay and try H hasn't gone anywhere and maybe it is time for PB.

You guys I don't know. I'm so confused--I love him so much and I want our family--I want it, I want it.

Then do what it takes to get it all back.

Do Plan B.

No guarantees you'll get it back, but at least you'll have tried. At least you'll have your answer.

Friends, schmends <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> ...it's a cop-out.

You're right albany, it's all or nothing. It's a M or it's not. He's your H, or he's not. He get's on board, or he doesn't. Fish or cut bait, etcetera, etcetera...

Find out...

Gets better!

Of course, who does he call about his crap day at work today--me. I called him to leave a voicemail that our phones are out at my work--the system overheated this weekend--102 and the air-conditioner went out. I just wanted to tell him to call cell phone if anything urgent happened--of course he answered and said I tried to call you awhile ago and they just rang and rang. I said why did you call-you tell you about this crap at work. He calls me back like a minute later and proceeds to tell me--good enough for that. Just a friend though and you know what part of marriage is about being friends like that.

I think the friend thing is just a cop out--wouldn't you agree--takes some guilt off him and allows him a scapegoat to justify everyhting right now I guess.

That friend thing is a load of bs and he needs to be called on it.

What he's doing is giving you an out so he's not the bad guy anymore. I hate to tell him, but no matter what, he's the bad guy in this - it doesn't matter who steps away first. There is no way if you leave that he's gonna be able to sheepishly toe the ground and mutter..."well, YOU left ME...."

Albany - the time is ripe for plan b - or at least a laying down of the law. No more coming over, no more you telling him to pay his bills, no more using your 'puter to post on ebay....he NEEDS a dose of reality. Seriously. AND NO MORE CALLING YOU AT WORK, JUST BECAUSE....what a load of bullshyt! He misses you and he can't admit it to himself. OY VEY!

Idiot. Why do they force US to be the bad guys? Because they are sick of the job....

So good to hear from you Nios.

I know the friend thing is a scapegoat or and out--I figured that out and how about I don't want you to be unhappy and so I can see you with someone now and not be jealous--BS. Gotta run touch back later after my lunch.

The friend thing just makes him feel better--Do you think that he truly can't figure out all of his feelings etc. I don't think he has forgiven himself because he said something last night after the friend conversation that their was a reason he left the first time and like that proves we aren't meant to be--can excatly explain it but he seems sure that it is too much amuck to make it work.

Doesn't he see how much he needs me--like calling me today about his crap day at work--but I guess that is what friends are for. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">We then talked about us and he said we are just friends--that is all he sees us as--that he use to be jealous to think of me with someone but now he is fine with it because I'm unhappy and he wants to see me happy and that we could still be friends.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Albany, Does your H truly understand the reason you are unhappy??? Does he know that you are unhappy because he is not home where he should be? That you are not interested in being with someone else?? It almost sounds to me that he is giving you permission to date so that he will not feel so guilty about what he has done.

My personal experience right now - I think my H is having a hard time dealing with the guilt. Sometimes I think he feels like he should stay alone to punish himself for all this mess. That he thinks that the kids and I would be happier without him. I also think he is afraid to come home because he is afraid everything will go back to the way it was prior to the A. That the changes I have made are to entice him into coming home, only to change into the wife I was before - the one that didn't meet his needs. I try to reassure him that he can trust me. But right now he does not trust anyone - not me, not OW, not himself.

I am not trying to threadjack, but I almost think maybe these are some of the issues your H is dealing with. We need to show them forgiveness, love and support. It is a slow healing process. As much as we have been hurt, our H's are hurt by this whole ordeal also. Just keep being patient and showing your love and forgiveness.

Another positive I saw is that H was going to hire attorney to deal with OW. He never mentioned anything about D, etc. He is not done with you. He is frustrated and is having a hard time dealing with his own personal battles. Give him time to deal with his issues and you continue to improve yourself into the best possible wife. Remember, part of being a wife is being a good friend.

Maybe it is time for Plan B. If you cut him out of your life and let him see you happy without him, he will see you in a different light. Instead of seeing someone who is constantly on him about moving home, etc. He will see you as an independent woman capable of functioning without him. Only you know if you are ready for Plan B.

Keep praying for strength to endure this. God will provide you with what you need to withstand this trial in your life. I truly believe that we will all be better people for this experience. Hang in there!!

<small>[ July 26, 2004, 10:26 PM: Message edited by: KrisM ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Doesn't he see how much he needs me--like calling me today about his crap day at work--but I guess that is what friends are for.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Forget it buster! When Nio tried that, I flat out told him I was not in the relationship for just friends. I cannot look at him EVER as "just a friend" and asking that of me was the same as trying to ask the sky to change from blue to magenta.

He needs to get it thru his thick skull that it's all or nuttin! I got a 2x4, you want I should use that to pound it in?

- Kimmy

I believe he is riding the fence. He gives you just enough to make you think 'maybe he is' then does what he wants to. He is committed to himself only. That "only be friends" line is to ease his guilt.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> What he's doing is giving you an out so he's not the bad guy anymore. I hate to tell him, but no matter what, he's the bad guy in this - it doesn't matter who steps away first. There is no way if you leave that he's gonna be able to sheepishly toe the ground and mutter..."well, YOU left ME...." </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is exactly what he is doing. The only way you can a 'friendship' can be established is if both parties want that relationship. He doesn't get to decide what level you TWO are at. I am so sorry for what you are going through. I get very angry when I read how the WS is trying to call the shots for the BS and tell them how they should deal with and react to these problems and issues. He is not considering you at all, he is only considering himself.

My H did the same thing but in total reverse.
He said that our problem is that we were NOT friends first (like he and OW) and that we never were best friends and that we needed to be.

He said we did not talk to each other like friends. I did go on to explain how very much we were each other's best friends and lovers. I told him that he was the most important person in my life, I would do anything for him, I have stood by him during medical issues, professional triumphs and pitfalls. I said if that is not a friend and a wife I don't know what is. Actually, I said it much better at the time.

So, perhaps change the tables on him. Tell him that it is important to be best friends to each other and build the love on that. Tell him why you consider him your friend and why that is important for a happy marriage. Use his defense out of this against him. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

The other thing I would do, is nicely ask that he knock before entering the home, to call before he intends to come over, not assume that he is invited to dinner, not to use your computer, not to ask you to help him with his ebay things. Avoid his calls. If you have caller ID, don't pick-up when it's him. Start doing things with you kids on your own or with a female friend and her kids.

My H did the same thing but in total reverse.
He said that our problem is that we were NOT friends first (like he and OW) and that we never were best friends and that we needed to be.

He said we did not talk to each other like friends. I did go on to explain how very much we were each other's best friends and lovers. I told him that he was the most important person in my life, I would do anything for him, I have stood by him during medical issues, professional triumphs and pitfalls. I said if that is not a friend and a wife I don't know what is. Actually, I said it much better at the time.

So, perhaps change the tables on him. Tell him that it is important to be best friends to each other and build the love on that. Tell him why you consider him your friend and why that is important for a happy marriage. Use his defense out of this against him. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

The other thing I would do, is nicely ask that he knock before entering the home, to call before he intends to come over, not assume that he is invited to dinner, not to use your computer, not to ask you to help him with his ebay things. Avoid his calls. If you have caller ID, don't pick-up when it's him. Start doing things with you kids on your own or with a female friend and her kids.

Just a few thoughts.

Hi Kris,

I agree with Kimmy, it should be all or none. You cannot be just friends. You are right he is feeling guilty. I am not sure what advise to give you but I feel for you and I hope you can get him to come around.
{{{{{{{{{{KrisM}}}}}}}}}}}

Trust me-it is more than friends to him but I think he says only friends when he is feeling down and is unhappy--that is how he justifies not being happy right now--is that we are only friends--but his unhappiness is from within and it isn't because of me or us right now.

He stopped last night to e-mail some pictures to a guy who bought a landcruiser that we owned with my parents. He played with our son for awhile and then I left and told him that I was going to visit my mom--she lives just down the street around the corner.

I said to him it is normal not to be happy all the time-but to think of the big picture and he said he would and he was realizing people just aren't happy all the time. He seemed to want some space but did give me a hug.

I'm giving him space-not calling him, etc. We were eating last night when he arrived--he noticed I believe that I didn't wait for him to be off work and I did not offer for him to eat with us. This weekend I'm going to a team penning with my mom (horse event) and it is only about 1 hour from where we live but I may just stay over night with her--they have a horse trailer with living quarters and our son loves to stay in it.

I plan on making him be alone--he doesn't want a D or it would be down by now--and besides the last time I signed D papers and he wouldn't and he is the one that had the D all done.

He needs some tough love I think--some fence sitting I think is on purpose and some of it I think isn't. I think he wants to be happy and doesn't know how right now and assumes it must have to do with me.

Okay so I told some last night in chat room a support thing came to H last night-OW sought out public assistance. Does have any info on it-just case number. So now he will have start dealing with that.

He was going to come by after work-i was not in the mood after the CS letter and told him not to bother. He immediately asked if I had plans--not jealous though <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Right!

I said no just didn't see any reason for him to come by. Should have said yes I suppose. Anyway I called him about something and that was it until about 9:30--he called to say he had just got pizza and was eating and going to bed and to tell me to have a goodnight. Okay! Interesting! Then he went on to say he would come over in the mornign to get stuff to ship for ebay and i said fine I probably won't see you then because I will be on my way to work.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> He then says that he is going to come over before I go to work to see me--okay why I wonder--I didn't think he would but sure enough he did. He got our son up and ready for daycare--H works graveyard tonight. Another interesting point is that he actually made a point to tell me to have a good day at work--never done for as long as I can remember. Not sure what is up with him.

No seeing him much I think is good-think being gone this weekend some will also be good.

good albany-now keep doing what you are doing, 180's or whatever--don't give in & don't push for anything.

ANd let him deal w/ the CS thing himself.

Hard for me not to let him deal with it--I'm the worry wart, pestimist(sp), etc. But i found it keeping me awake last night and said no--your life goes on and it isn't your deal right now--it is his and how he handles it will tell me more how I want to deal with him and I.

We will have to chat tonight online--what time do you usually get on?

Excellent Albany. I think the pulling back thing works wonders but you have to keep it up. Don't pull a LMF and give in too soon and easily.

That is so me LMF. I'm usually too easy. This time I'm doing well.

H was at our house when I got home tonight--he was a grouch-wouldn't say why-had a bad day though--at least I think didn't get through to IRS. He was on hold for 27 minutes he said-didn't get ebay stuff shipped and I think this CS letter is weighing heavily on his mind.

I tend to be a grouch to him when I have a bad day but at least I will say why I'm acting that way--he doesn't.

You know what I did girls-I just let it go and told him to have a goodnight--he didn't reply and I just turned away from the door and walked away--not chasing after him and trying to make it all better for him. You know why??? I have done that and I hav offered to be their for him through all of this and he pretty much in my opinion has said no--hasn't let me and I'm just a friend and he does'nt know if he wants to stay married because he is unhappy (DUH) He created most of it but. So back to the point I offered and he didn't accept so heck with him--he can go throught it on his own for now and be crabby and grouchy he-made this OW/OC mess he can deal with it.

I'm thinking it will give him a start when I don chase after and basically look for his approval after him being a grouch--he can sort the ****ty days out on his own because I'm just a friend and you can pick and chose your friends.

Tough love is what I keep tellign myself that I have to do--it is the only thing he seems to understand and frankly as you all said would happen my love for him and patience is dwindling and I'm starting to sorta not care or think about and figure I can start over if need be-resigned I guess--not my first choice but resigned that it could easily be reality that unfortunately my son may be raised in two different single parent homes.

This distance thing comes at the right time for me because I don't want to ruin the love I have for him--a good break for me.

We have all had bad days-happy inthe morning and grouchy by the time we get home--so maybe that is all it is but no stress over it like I would ahve done in the past.

I'm not so sure that I could get rid of him even if I wanted to! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ! HEck he has had plenty of opportunity to get the big D--also like to remind you all of the fact that he di the D last time and after we agreed on everything it was he who could never bring themselves to sign the papers--so I know that he knows that I can and will--proved that once.