How many of us are trying to use the Principles of MarriageBuilding?

I know in my case, I don't use them as much as I should.
I have learned many tools to help in many aspects of my life, by reading these forums and reading the basic principles of MarriageBuilding.

I am curious how many of us feel we are making progress within OURSELVES using the MB principles?
We cannot improve our Marriages if we cannot improve ourselves. True?

I have read many vents on this forum in recent times... but few discussions of MarriageBuilder Principles.

While venting helps to keep the LoveBusting down, it doesn't help us to express to our spouses our Emotional Needs or to come to a Policy of Joint Agreement about how to deal with this situation.

Lets open a discussion of what we can do in all aspects of this situation (dealing with OC) using the MarriageBuilder's Principles.

Stacia

Well, I have to admit that I am not the best example of the MB principles. I try but I find it difficult at times. I think one of the reasons is because my H knows nothing about them and I find it frustrating trying to express myself and why I feel/act the way I do with regrards to our situation. It would be good if we both used them.

Probably the only one I am fairly good at is the EN's. I do try to keep those in my mind. If I am not caught off guard with a situation, I am ok with no LB'ing. However, when I am hit with something hard/bad I loose control. Example: Finding out he was in the labor room with OW w/o telling me first. Things like that make it so difficult for me not to LB. Then again, if H followed MB he would not have gone there, especially wihout my knowledge and the whole LB session would have been avoided. I think. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

I try to use them daily. So does H. He doesn't read this site, but still I've created a "MB monster" by talking about the concepts all the time and making him read from the books. The little $**t <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> has been known to tell me, "aut, you just major lb'd me...you better knock that off...".

If I were pressed to name only one concept as being the most important for saving a M I would say time spent together. I so believe in the 15 hr. p/w rule...15 hrs. being the minimum for a good M! More when times are not good in the M.

I believe it's crucial. All the other concepts will have an easier time of falling naturally into place, if this concept is achieved.

Kinda hard to lie and not be honest when you spend so much time together.

Easy to POJA when you spend so much time together. You tend to be more on the same page.

Easy to find out your spouse's EN's when spending so much time together.

Easy to FULFILL your spouse's EN's when spending so much time together. Heck, spending time together, having fun, etc...automatically fulfills a lot of people's top EN.

You become a united front, thus easier to discuss issues regarding OC.

<small>[ June 22, 2004, 11:50 AM: Message edited by: autumnday ]</small>

Must say I'm guilty of not reffering back to MB principles. Trying to focus on time together-just us--bad with that after we had our child and EN--wasn't meeting or really seeing H's--thought I was but they were different than I thought.

With the differences in our schedules, H and I barely see each other. We are both suffering from the lack of time together...

I am currently trying to find a babysitter/daycare to help relieve the pressure on H during the hours of the day that I am working, but I have run into roadblocks because of the costs!

Until I came to MB, I had no idea about Plan A or B... But when H and I separated during the early days of discover, I did modified versions of both.


Aut,
I wish I could get Mr Lee interested in MB principles... He doesn't much like me posting here, but he has definitely reaped the benefits of what I have learned here!
You'd think he would want to give credit where credit is due.. LOL

S

Being interested in MB principles and liking me posting here are two different things, because my H also does NOT like me posting nor reading here. Says he's worried I'm not moving on, and that I may be punishing myself or something.

Out of respect for his wishes, and also to be able to spend the time I mentioned earlier, I post almost exclusively when he's at work, (if I do when he's home, I do it when he's puttering w/ something in the same room). He does like it when I read to him some of the funny/lighter stuff happening on the EN forum.

Of course he much prefers MB to my former internet antics.

As far as the 15 hr. week thing, I'd encourage you and everyone to do whatever's necessary to do it. It is worth every dime you pay to a babysitter, and then some. Be creative and give up something else, to be able to afford a babysitter, (say...Sam's Choice instead of Mrs. Paul's <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> )

As far as Plan A and Plan B. I love them. They just make so much sense to me. I think they are concepts you can use in all types of relationships. I think a lot of people use them without even "knowing" about them. Heck, I had my DD use a Plan B on her group of snotty "friends" way back when she was in 4th grade! Don't ya know it worked too!! It's common sense stuff.

My H is not really into reading anything but we have done the EN questionnaire. He does not really like me on here as much as I am either so I also do it when he is @ work, so as to not steal time away from US.

The EN have helped me the most. Helped me to recognize when I am 'low' on something & realize if I am feeling low in an area, H probably is too.

I completely agree w/ the 15 hour rule & encourage everyone I know to follow it. We may not have 15 hours alone every week, but I really do try to make it a priority.

I have made 'get aways' a priority too. Even if the ktbunch is w/ us, but we are camping, we get more alone time together because there is no tv & no house to clean! lol

The main thing I have done is to actually make my marriage a PRIORITY, I am more united w/ H on our marriage. My main focus now is OUR marriage, not OC, not OW, not A, not ktbunch but our MARRIAGE! I think that if that is going well, the rest falls into the proper place within the marriage.

I do vent here to alleviate LB IRL, but......I also learn from other's situations. Even others mistakes, it reminds me of 'big fat duhs' I do in my own life so I should follow some of my own advice sometimes! lol that helps me alot, to put things in perspective.

SO I think this sight & it's principles, has reminded me of the fact & importance of making my MARRIAGE the priority here. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I have to say I have not followed many MB principles since discovering them. I printed out the EN ? but never shared it w/ H. My biggest problem tends to be LB's & DJ's. I would love to use POJA but have not told H about that either.

H is not a big reader, & would most likely not be too happy about me posting on this site so I have not shared this w/ him. SAA is lying on our nite stand in the bdrm., doubt he has looked at it either.

We definitely don't spend anywhere near 15 hrs. together a week I know that would help so much. May be too late for my M though.

Good topic, Stacia!

I printed out A LOT of info from this site and my dh surprised the heck out of me by reading it - all of it. I think it was the first time he's seen anything that a)described him and what he was going through and b)gave us tips on how to work through it without the blame game. We're still working through it together - and I must say we've kept the love busting down to a minimum - which has helped on both sides.

- Kimmy

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I am curious how many of us feel we are making progress within OURSELVES using the MB principles?
We cannot improve our Marriages if we cannot improve ourselves. True?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">How have the MB principles helped you improve yourself?

What have you been able to learn to take with you throughout your life and relationships with others?

How do you apply the MB principles to OTHERS.. not just your marriage?

S

Staci, I have read and go back often and read. Not everything is going to work for everyone the same. Even though we are in the same boat WS/OW/OC everyones is differnt. But you are right on one thing. You have to change yourself! I beleive that changes come within and if I'm not happy for what ever, and struggling with God. Then it will run down the line. The age ole rule, if mommy's not happy, no one is! And I've noticed in my life that is true. I had to come to a realization that the only man that truly will be by my side no matter what, is God. He makes me who I am and yes the principles go towards that. For you and your faith to get closer to God and let him have your life. Just like a no contact letter. Ok if H wants to end the A he will end it, weither it be by letter phone or just no contact at all. Don't sit there and tell someone who doesn't write to anyone to write this letter or its over. Thats what I mean by some exact things don't work for all. Even if there is a NC letter, we still are filled with free will. God gave us this, some people don't really need it, but we still have it and he wants us to learn how to use it. I think the support thing is a great thing. It has brought me closer to God and where I need to be reguardless what happens with my M. But I think the books and the priciples are what any M needs to survive in todays times. Open your eyes to the one God has givin you and love and respect them the way you want to be treated. SO often you get the children, the activities for the kids, and friends, family and even church and loose site of each other. Learn how to talk to each other again. So our spouses talk to us and not other people! Remember when you dated and met, talked on the phone for hours, even fell asleep on the phone, and after years of all the other people and stuff, you go to dinner and say two words to each other and then start fighting or get mad? I'm quilty, of everything I've talked about. But I am learning and reading and taking everything to mind and heart.
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> Sunny D

Oh Sunny - you just put into words what I've been feeling for MONTHS! D'ya know what I've been thinking about lately? What heaven is gonna be like - what I'm looking forward to the most. How odd is that? But see, I can feel it - I know my heart's desire will come true - I'll get to be with all my loved ones and best of all, I'll get to sit by God's throne and rest my head on his leg now and then and just watch the goings on with him (and this is the really weird part - all my senses will be attuned to Him - I'll feel him, I'll smell himm - pardon that one, but nearly all my fondest memories are tied to my sense of smell - the glory of it is overwhelming). I'll get to BE with him in his presence (sp?) - sometimes the promise of it is just too exciting!

But I digress from the topic at hand - oy! What I've learned. Well, I've learned how I behaved after d-day #1 - how I nearly lost my mind and myself. I've learned there are names for it - and ultimately, there are ways to work through it. Dh and I both would agree that while we thought we were doing the best thing for our family at the time, his profession then was not entirely conducive to maintaining a stable relationship - and I'll concede that though I won't excuse his behavior, I wasn't there for him enough. We've also realized that grief causes people do things they never would've thought they'd do (in addition to having the bars, we'd just lost my mother in law, and for a mother in law, she was a beloved woman, by us all <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> - I'll tell you THAT was the breaking point for him).

I cannot say that the Marriage Building process is what opened my eyes, or even taught me something I didn't know deep down...but it put into words what I needed to get across to dh - and honestly put it in a way that he'd grasp (not that he's a dolt - far from it, but he's def. a hunter/doer type person as opposed to a more cerebral/thinker type guy).

But in respect to others - you know what I learned through all this - not just MB? No assumptions. That's it. I cannot assume anything. I cannot assume that my marriage will work, I cannot assume/presume to make assumptions on others relationships. Nothing is guarenteed and everything is precious and to respect that for myself and for others is quite possibly one of the hardest lessons I've ever learned. I'm of the opinion (no assumption, tho <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> ) that if more people realized this and lived by it, there'd be a lot less angst in the world.

- Kimmy

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I had to come to a realization that the only man that truly will be by my side no matter what, is God. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Very true. There is NO ONE other than God that will be completely by your side.
If it weren't for the Lord, I don't think I would have made it as far as I have. He has been the main ROCK for me in this whole situation. If it weren't for the provisions that He provided for me to help me deal with this, I wouldn't have found this site, forum and so many wonderful friends to help me.

You are completely right. Everyone is different. No two situations are alike, only the basic elements are the same.
MB principles are guidelines. You have to be able to mold them and modify them to your situation.

It would have been useless for me to say that MB principles are the ONLY way to rebuild your marriage... because MB is not the only way.
How many couples have dealt with infidelity before the internet? Before Dr Harley? COUNTLESS!

We, those of us that are here on these forums, are honestly a small percentage of those that are dealing with this. And we, here on this particular forum, are an even smaller percentage of those that are dealing with an OW/OC situation.

I am glad we are discussing the principles. We really are needing to re-connect with them. We are here on this site, these forums, to learn from Dr Harley and from those that have applied his prinicples to their own situations and to give support and to receive support for the hard times in dealing with this painful subject.

S

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> How have the MB principles helped you improve yourself?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">They've been resourceful tools in helping me to realize the many things I was doing wrong. I still do a lot of things wrong, and I fall from time to time, but overall, I'm doing more things right. I think that's improvement.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> What have you been able to learn to take with you throughout your life and relationships with others?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">As the oldies know, the first thing I learned was the importance of RH. It was the most difficult principle to do, and scared the heck out of me, but it was the only choice. Everything after that was easy in comparison. Without it in a M, it would be like building a house without a foundation. Had I not been honest w/ my H, our life would not be what it is today. My H knows the truth, and YET he stayed, and loves me, warts and all!! Another benefit, I can look at myself in the mirror and not despise who I see.

Love can be restored! I used to think I'd never be able to "feel" love for my H again, because how do you make yourself love someone? Either you do or you don't. I was wrong. Love is an action. Once I began doing loving things for my H, even when I didn't "feel" love for him...the love started to come back.

Another eye-opener for me was that I was a "runner". When things got tough, I ran, but I ran in the wrong direction. I had stopped running to God. I didn't run to my H either, because afterall, he was usually the one that represented the tough situation. Instead, I began running to material things to soothe me...then eventually ran to the A. Now with the concepts I've learned and have embraced, and being back w/ God, I run to Him and I run to my H, even if H is the source of my anger, disappointment, or hurt.

I've learned to forgive others. I was the most unforgiving person in the world. If someone wronged me, forget them, finished, bye-bye. Yet the unforgiveness baggage was still there. I can't say I learned this so much from MB concepts, but from my H. I mean I always knew it...knew God commands us to forgive and all that, but it was something I always resisted. My H's gift was what really changed my heart. To forgive has lifted a huge burden off of me. It sucks to carry around the weight of an unforgiving heart. I believe to be unforgiving can literally make a person physically ill. It did me. Don't get me wrong, it's not all peaches and cream, forgiveness is still a struggle for me, but I've come a long, long way.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> How do you apply the MB principles to OTHERS.. not just your marriage?

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Like I said earlier, these concepts just make so much sense to me. Common sense ideas, nothing really unique or groundbreaking, just plain old-fashioned common sense. At least that's how I view them.

Take the love bank theory. Of course we tend to want to hang out with those who make the most deposits to our accounts! I've seen a dramatic change in my relationship with my teens, just by practicing the concepts that equal "deposits". I've learned the love language they each respond to the most, I've learned their top EN's, and I've stopped, (for the most part), LB'g and DJ'g them to death, and ka-ching, ka-ching...guess who actually wants to spend more time with old mom?

I could go on and on with other examples, but you get the idea. I like the concepts. My M is in a better place than it ever was, due in no small part to the practicing of MB principles. My other R's are better too.

Sunny~
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Just like a no contact letter. Ok if H wants to end the A he will end it, weither it be by letter phone or just no contact at all. Don't sit there and tell someone who doesn't write to anyone to write this letter or its over. Thats what I mean by some exact things don't work for all. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The NC letter is an "ideal" approach, but I don't believe Harley ever suggested a BS should tell the WS "it's over" if the WS doesn't use the NC letter method. If he said that, you'd have to point me to where you read it.

That being said, I, (and I know many others), did NOT end the A w/ an NC letter. I had lurked here before I ended the A, and also before I got P. (what an idiot) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" /> I knew the concept of the NC letter, and still I didn't do it w/ a letter. I did it in person, long before my H knew of the A. For lack of a better description, it wasn't a "strong" enough good-bye. om kept calling, and I kept answering for about another month or so. Then I finally made it clear to him it was over, but still, I did it over the phone and not with a letter. I wish I had done the letter, would've avoided the lingering month of C, seeing as once he realized I was serious, he abided. A proper NC letter makes things VERY clear to the op.

So, even though I like the principles, I have not followed all of them to a T. They are good, they make sense, but I do agree, one size doesn't fit all. Some of the principles can be modified, but others, not so much... not if you really want things to work out. JMO.

~ad