Since some of you have been on the pop rock kick <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> , I thought this would be an opportune time to post this. Passion and true intimacy in marriage is an awesome and unbelievable thing!

I know I get a little carried away sometimes, with bringing posts over from GQ, but gosh, w/ all the traffic over there, so many good things get posted that we miss out on, if we don't venture over there!

The following was written last week, by one of the most respected and insightful members, if not, thee #1, Just Learning. He's always been tops in my book. I almost feel I'm breaking some copyright rule by copy/pasting it, it is that good! It's a long post, (even for JL), directed toward a FWW trying to find her way, and wondering if passion in her M is possible, because she's never known it in her M. It's a very worthwhile read and can be applied to many a marriage, even if not touched by adultery. Hope you all can take a gander, you'll be glad you did...

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BV,

Well, I can see this as getting clearer and clearer. I apologize if I get too graphic, I will try to avoid it,but what you said is exactly the key to this, not withstanding the reality of withdrawal, which you just have to get through.

You said
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Yes I do need to see H in a new light. It is the process which is scary though because even when I married H I never felt ‘passion for him’ in that area. I just never thought of it as being important.. We made a commitment to each other, served God together, raised a family together, and he is a faithful, hardworking, caring, and just about everything in one. Yet passion was never an issue or worry to me…
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That was YOUR fault. And I will tell you why, you very likely felt that a "good W" did NOT do certain things, a "good W" did NOT desire sex, a "good W" would NOT talk to her H about what she wanted, and needed in bed. He very likely felt that as your H, and a christian man he could NOT demand/expect certain things from you. You two neutered each other.


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Then…… 18/19 years later I get involved in an affair where suddenly feelings I have NEVER felt before all come out in the short space of a few months.
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Of course you weren't OM's W. You were cheating and therefore anything you wanted or he wanted was fair because you had already shrugged off the W role and were now a... You fill in the blank. Now sex was important,it was expected, it was used to express your feelings, his feelings. You never used sex like that in your marriage did you?


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Wrong feelings yes, absolutely, but such strong emotional passionate feelings, that it is now tearing me apart inside… How can I subdue them, erase them, re-channel them? Can they even be re-channelled to H??
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Oh the feelings are NOT wrong, but I would bet you have felt they were wrong within your marriage. You can rechannel them when you can see your H as a MALE, not as just your H. When you can see he NEEDS to have sex with you, he NEEDS to see you satisfied, he NEEDS to be satisfied, just as much as your OM ever did. He has very likely subjegated his needs to as not to offend his W. Do you know if he has fantasies about sex? I'll bet you don't.
You were a good Christian W, but you were not a good Christina ******, so you allowed yourself to enjoy it, you needed to enjoy it.

Am I getting close BV?


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It is a ‘feeling based’ thing. H could do the same as OM, but I am in despair now that the passion that came out for OM wasn’t there before with H, so how do I ‘make’ it there now???
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It would have been there if you had allowed it, if you had asked for your H to show you passion. You can "make" it there by deciding that sex is something that is good, that between a married couple anything goes as long as both enjoy it or derive enjoyment. You need to see sex within the marriage differently. Want an example?? Look at the list of your H's attributes.


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“One thing that your H cannot duplicate is the "thrill" of doing something illicit and wrong, of hiding something from everyone, of the US against the WORLD feelings, that are part of the fantasy of the affair. But, there is something he can give you that OM cannot, and that being made love to by a man that is devoted to YOU. He can do that when you are ready. Think about it.”

I think the key is as JL put it…. I am expecting my H to duplicate a ‘thrill feeling’ which of course he could not do.
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He cannot duplicate the "thrill of cheating", but he can duplicate the "thrill" of enjoying sex, uninhibited sex, if you will let him and tell him what you need. BV you start running around the house without panties on and let him know you are doing that, and I would bet the "thrill" will come back.


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Why then do I desperately want this ‘thrill’ feeling and fantasy I keep asking and asking myself.
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Because what you want is a good thing. You now are admitting you are a sexual being, you just need to admit that your H is as well. What you want is what most men want in their marriage and don't get. It is what some women want that have a high sex drive want and frequently don't get. It is normal, it is not about OM in my mind. It is about you, and what you finally experienced, and you can have it with your H.

Look at this list:
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Husband stands for :

Reliability
Trust
Faithfulness
Hope
Security
Friendship
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I don't see Male listed here, I don't see sex partner listed here, I don't see horney listed here , I don't see lover listed here. Husband stands for these as well BV, you have just basically cut your H's b**ls off with what you feel is a good H. Hence you have gotten what you expected. You can have more, you need to ask for it, you need to tell him what you want, when you want it, or give him control and tell him you want to be not just his W but his lover. I am betting the day you tell him that, will be a day he will go to his grave remembering.


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Why is this ‘passion and thrill’ thing so important to me when H stands for all those qualities?
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Because you are a sexual human being and you should feel the need for passion, but you need to broaden the definition of an H, to include LOVER.


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OM and I (am sorry to express – please forgive me any BS reading. I do want to understand myself and come out of this…) had a sexual CHEMISTRY..
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You had a sexual chemistry because you were not embarressed to ask for what you wanted. You told him. You allowed him to tell you. You accepted what he offerec. You did NOT deny him. You were NOT a Wife to him.

Notice all of the "you's"? Well, if YOU do the same with your H, you will get all of that PLUS the love, and security of your marriage.


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I could have phys with H but the ‘chemistry’ isn’t there but feelings of a different kind ie fondness etc but no ‘passion’ or ‘chemistry’…
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You defined away the "chemistry" because you never allowed or wanted your H to be your lover. You have had a lover now, and you want that as well. Well, you can get it but you are going to have to tell your H what you want, you are going to have to show H what you want, and you are going to have to give your H permission to be your lover, you have denied him that for your whole marriage.

[quote}This is suddenly becoming quite a worry for me. If I don’t sort this issue out don’t you think it would be a HUGE stumbling block in a recovery?
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It will become less of a worry as withdrawal ends. It will become even less of a worry if you decided an H could be a lover as well. It will become even less of a worry if you ask your H to be your lover, take some risks, do some "scandalous" things :rolleyes" with him, and just plain have fun with him in bed. Become your H's lover, that is what you need to do BV. I am betting he will love it and after the initial shock, and concerns of what YOU think of him, you might find you have all of the lover you can handle.

BV, out of love, many of us spouses become what our W's/H's want, and out of embarrassment we don't tell them what we need and what we want, and how we want it. It is not a new thing, but if you start to tell your H what you need sexually, if you start to see him as your lover, and not just the guy that does the lawn and brings home the check. I think you will find the passion.

BV, we often blame our spouse for not having what we failed to bring to the marriage. YOu think your H is without passion, but it is your that brought no passion to the marriage because of your thoughts about what a "good W" and a "good H" should be.

In my mind, they should be lovers and darned good lovers, think about that.

Hope something I have said helps.

God Bless,

JL

Thanks for bringing that over ad. It's totally true.

Studies/statistics have shown again & again, that the most satisfying, successful & fulfilling sex life is one between MARRIED people, a H & W.

So why does society perpetrate otherwise? I don't know but I am glad that I have my H.

I've mentioned before.......if anyone (wives particularly) struggle in this area, here is a great book recommendation for this topic, Intimate Issues, also a very good web site, www.themarriagebed.com.

Thanks again ad. Hope everyone has a terrific weekend & maybe if you are struggling w/ something you should take this weekend to declare your independance from your burden & enjoy your new freedom! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Let the romantic frolicking begin! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />


edited to correct web addy.

<small>[ July 02, 2004, 12:55 PM: Message edited by: ktbunch ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Let the romantic frolicking begin!
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Too late! (hehehehehehe) Fortunately for dh and I *this* was NEVER a problem for us.... But I can understand how it could be for others.

- Kimmy, the pop rocks goddess