Now that OC is here doesn't it give OW the leverage she needs to keep WS in her life? The fact that he is also in jail doesn't help. He wanted me on his visiting list and the OW has OC and now he doesn't want to see me. Tried taking me off his list but couldn't. I haven't heard from him in a month now. I know this was all OW's doing. She is using this baby to her advantage. She even threatened him before she had the baby. All of a sudden "they" are his family? I wonder if OW will stay with H because he will be locked up for at least 18 months. I can't see her being without a man 18 hours much less all these months. But it doesn't matter, she has him right where she wants him. So now what?

Nope. I don't think so. They do play this see what we created stuff. But deep down inside they know who loves them and where they need to be. They feel oblagated (sp) to them. After all the WS did have a part in it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> But soon they will realize that the "fun" running around part ect is OVER! Now they go back to LIFE. They go back to being "dad" instead of mr great lover guy/girl. So I would say no.
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> Sunny D

They still use OC though. Right now OW is calling the shots. Is it "fog" for H?

Hi, Cyn....I just had a thought about this. I hope this will make some sense after I type it out. (still drinking that first cup of coffee)

Perhaps thinking about the OW/OC is giving your husband the "warm fuzzies" he needs in order to deal with the bleak picture of being in jail? Kind of a mental escape, if you will. So, I would suppose you could say that he's in the fog.

Once he's released from jail and gets thrown back into "reality" with the OW, I pray that he sees her for what she really is. Living with her probably won't resemble all those daydreams that he's having now.

Honestly, I don't really know what I'd do in your situation. I'd probably work on myself in the meantime. You've already got a headstart over the OW since you aren't manipulative and a drug user, so any other improvements you can make to yourself would be a bonus. Just picture his face when he gets out of jail and sees the new you, and you can tell him "This is who you threw away" and maybe he'll want to take a second look?

I'm still thinking about you and praying for you, even though I haven't posted much lately. I hope I've helped in some small way.

cyn,

I have read  many of your posts (& responded to some) so I understand your deep pain and hurt. With that said, I'm not sure how much of these posts get through your grief, but here it goes in any case.

As to your question:
Does just having a child with someone guarantee ANYTHING?

In a word..NO!
Take a look at the thousands of BS here who have children and their WS STILL cheated!
Indeed,  many of them STILL left them or even divorced them.
So NO, just having a child does not mean the OW has WON at all.
A child does will not keep a person if they want to leave.
IT is the primary relationship that is the factor of success or failure. Not a child.

In fact, if we examine your story, your H cheated on you Before there ever was the OC (or even the thought of one).
So the OC is not your obstacle.
Truly, the OW is not even your main challenge.

If we look back, There was something wrong in the M before either of these 2 persons were ever involved. So YOU must figure out what it was that your H went looking for. And then ultimately found.
If you haven't figured out what went wrong (especially YOUR part in it) then you'll Never be able to show him you've changed for the better and changed for Good.

Have you done this?
Have you then done the planning necessary to begin to show your H you understand your mistakes and HOW you are going to change them?

If this sounds like some kind of attack on you, it most certainly IS NOT!
On the contrary, it is a message that you can indeed get your H back.

I've read how poor of a person this OW is. I don't know if this is true or not, but if it is, then all you need to do is figure out what EN this "person" has been meeting and then  you begin to meet them yourself. (As you should have been all along).
So have you figured out HIS Needs and come up with Your plan to address them?

Unfortunately, I can't tell you exactly what your plan needs to be.
I don't know your H or what his needs are.
But you do (or you need to find out, like quickly).

I believe that YOU CAN meet ANY NEED that this OW is meeting.
In fact, I'm confident you can do it BETTER then her.
Question is: Do you really want to? Or is it easier to just not try and be a victim?
Because like it or not, getting to a recovery takes a lot (yes, a lot) of work and sacrifice on the BS part. Its never easy for any of us. Just a fact.

I hope your just not using the OC as your excuse to not really try or only give a half hearted effort. That would truly be a shame, were that turn out to be true.

Lastly, I also think that having your H in jail is a great opportunity for YOU to begin meeting those needs you weren't before. (while he is forcibly kept apart from the OW).
They are apart. He has nothing much else to do but think. 
YOU Still have access to him.
Why not put the "Best Cyn1018"  you can be, into the forefront of his thoughts?
He's there for about 2 years, Yes? 
Why not get a positive plan going and use every day of his incarceration to your advantage?

As to another statement you made:
Will the OW attempt to "Use" the OC. Most likely.
But you can't let that fact just make you give up. NOT if you really want this M.
Too many of your posts point to the fact, that you have already "given Up".
Since this seems to be your attitude, then you absolutely have NO CHANCE of ever "winning" or getting your H back (unless you choose to change your thinking).

In sports, Many a team goes into a game already defeated because they have no confidence of victory. This is the same attitude or "feel" I read in your posts.
YOU appear defeated BEFORE you even make an attempt.
IF the person posting these thoughts and questions is the same one confronting your H, then its No wonder that he is NOT responding favorably to your attempts to reconcile with him.
A negative, desperate and defeated attitude is NOT Attractive to anyone. This is not the way to get him back.
Sorry, but its true.

YOU need to readjust your thinking and come up with a much better plan then the one you've been posting previously.
AS stated by Arabesque, work on yourself first. This will adjust your emotional and mental outlook. Once feeling better about yourself, You will begin to see that you CAN move on without him (should it come to that).
Having a more self assured attitude is so much more appealing then a clinging desperate one.
If you change yourself, HE can't help but notice the changes.

It is possible to save this M.
However, the onus is on you to do the work.
YOU must Get a workable plan, implement it, and then stick with it. 
NOTHING here works over the short term. YOU must be prepared for the long haul.
Start with yourself (be prepared to Show him you've changed) and only then work on him.
Remember that YOU are the only one you can truly change and control.

If you really want success, then I wish you nothing but that in the future.
Take care

Hi Cyn,

Thank you for your response to my post. My WH could not live with OW because she lived in a shelter. But he did inform me that he spent all his time with her. I just wonder why she is so special that he wanted to spend all his time with her but thinks it is an effort to spend time with me. I guess they make us so angry that we are not fun to spend time with. It's so hard trying to be upbeat and fun when you feel so angry inside. I hope you and I can get the help to be that fun person our WS are seeking.

NOPE, OC does NOT give OW the upper hand.

WS does. It is all a choice by WS. They are the ones that choose to stray or stay.

H A ENDED when OW got pg. So it ruined it for her. He chose his originally family over making a new one w/ someone else & will continue to choose that. OW having OC has just shown MORE of why H chose to stay w/ me (us) & has made OW look even worse. She has tried to create the drama & idea that they 'share' something but really they don't.

It is all about WS choice if he wants to be w/ you he will & if not he won't.

Why do you cry over someone who sounds like such a LOSER? You have never answered that question & I have asked a few times.

He has maintained that he is a cheater, a liar, a possible drug user & now a convict? And you are crying over him? Why?

I wasn't aware a person had to be perfect in order to love them. This man was my best friend for over 13 yrs.. He changed completely when OW came into his life. I didn't know I had to defend my love for him to anyone. The reason anyone is here is because we were either cheated on or cheated ourselves. And besides, you don't know OW either! She has done this to others and more than likely will again. Believe me she's good at what she does! Wouldn't it be nice if I could just walk away, then I wouldn't have to be here in the first place. Maybe I'm in love with the man he used to be, but none-the-less I do still love him with all my heart. Read the other posts of how WS's can be cruel all for the sake of an A. Major fog! If I walk away I'm no better than he is.

And yes, I guess I don't have any self esteem left. I've known this man 15 yrs. and I'm letting some disgusting gutter tramp destroy my life. I don't know how to fight. How to compete with her or OC.

Also the books say it's sometimes hard for the WS to make up their minds. Torn between two worlds, well then wouldn't OC be a factor in the decision process? WS was planning on working things out with me until OW was conveniently pregnant, giving her the upper hand.

<small>[ July 13, 2004, 01:59 PM: Message edited by: Cyn1018 ]</small>

I am sorry if I offened you. I did want to hear something to explain why you are hanging on.

I think you deserve BETTER than this--wht your H is offering you whihc right now is nothing.

Ow is nothing & you are something but His choosing NOTHING! You cannot change him. I am the first to say....from experience that God is still in the miracle business & wants marriages to stay together.

But you have to have healthy boundaries too. It is perplexing to me as to why you would want someone who is so unhealthy & apears to be of such low qulaity.

Are you saying that he was a great upstanding guy all of your marriage UNTIL A started & then he suddenly changed his somplete character? There had to be a build up...a decline in character first. You don't just wake up one day & hop into bed w/ someone.

There was a crack in yoru amrraige somewhere & that's when it started 'leaking'. Eventually it all spilled out into this HUGE mess we have all foudn ourselves in. If we coudl have just fixed teh cracks to begin w/....we woudln't be here.

So where were the 'cracks' & 'leaks'? What was going on......how were you NOT there for each other when you needed to be that started to give him tehopportunity or desire to turn to someone else?

if you can figure that out......then you can figure out what you need to change in you & you can start to work on that & THEN start to apply your new found knowledge to get your H back!
*********
*********
Lots of people can be in love w/ someone/ Abused children 'love' their mothers.....many abused women 'love' their H jsut as many abusers say they 'love' those they abuse.........doesn't mean they should continue thier relationships......whihc is why I asked WHY you would still want him. That is the point i ws trying to make.

i am really sorry if I offened you but @ least I got something out of you.......did youfeel that need to defend? Now use it on yourself & use that energy to defend what you had & fight for what you WANT!

Instead of woe is me how 'bout WOW is me!!!!!!! You are a great person.......your H is the jerk right now so throw that low self-esteem out the window & get moving! You can do it.

Of course I see my part in all of this. However that did not give OW the right to come in and completely destroy what she had no right to in the first place. Yes H was to blame but just because he offered didn't mean she had to spread her legs. She has her own husband for goodness sake. I honestly don't know what happened. I am only guessing at best. There is more to this puzzle than even I know about. When I find the missing piece I'll be able to rebuild.

Gen, FORGET about the crumbled pieces! Start baking new cookies! Better ones! You got to forget about the details and just start today and build a stronger, happier, healthier M! Leave the dirty pc on the floor and start a new one. And that doesn't mean with someone else, that means start a new, better relationship w/ the one you love. People change everyday. You need to remember the reason's people cheat and make sure you both fill those area's. Good luck!
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> Sunny D

Hi Cyn,

I tried to respond to you yesterday but could not get through.

I can totally relate to you. I met my husband when he was an active addict. He was very good at hiding this from me and showing me his charming side. I fell in love with my husband and am still in love with my husband. He has since become clean not for me but for himself. I think I helped him become clean when I kicked him out on the street. He checked himself into programs. I tried to deny my love for him because he hurt me so much but I still love him. My love for him feels different than love I felt for other men. When I am with him I feel whole and pure. Nothing feels dirty. I feel clean with him. I cannot explain it but it is like we are meant to be together. I do not think he will ever feel for other woman what he feels for me. He likes to have a good time with other woman. But his love for me is clean and pure.

I too feel H is my soul mate. I have never felt more comfortable with any other man in my life than I did when I met him. He treated me like I was made of glass. He was so sweet and kind. Everyone who knew us envied us. He did have problems however he never made those about me, that is until he met OW. All of a sudden I was dirt and she was a queen. It would be so easy to blame all of this on him. She was the one who pursued him. She got pregnant on purpose! That much I will stake my life on. She knew he wanted a child and that's all it took. I love him so much and it hurts so bad. I don't know what I can do and that's what is frustrating. This man has been a part of my life for 15 yrs. and I truly believed with all my heart that we had a bond that could never be broken. His drug use spiraled out of control when OW came into the picture. He started doing harder drugs and lost 2 jobs. Yeah, she's a good influence alright. I believe he will be going to a very extensive drug and alcohol treatment program while he's in jail. It won't help as long as she's in his life. I'll bet you anything she already has someone else that no one knows about. Her poor children will suffer. WS is in for a big shock one of these days. I can't wait. I would give my life to have back the man I fell in love with, I wouldn't give you 2 cents for the man he is when OW is involved.

I believe that the OW having my exWS's OC gave her an upper hand. She knew him well enough that he would never desert a child that was his. He and I had no children together...we each had two from previous marriages. And while he could have had a role in the OC's life without the OW, he wasn't sure she would take good enough care of the OC. He was 47, and she was 22. She came from an abusive background. Their child has Down Syndrome. Sometimes I think that the reason my exWS chose the OW is that she was young and easy to impress by very little. He just had to drive a nice truck and give her a few dollars now and then. He could be the big hero to rescue her from her awful past. I, on the otherhand, expected him to be an adult who accepted mutual responsibility for our life together...and sometimes that ain't so fun!

Heartfailure,

I am so sorry for your loss. Keep posting, you will get much support. My husband also went to a younger woman, 23. She called last night. She will forever be a thorn in my side. My husband talked to her in front of me. He knew better than to tell her he loved her but his voice was soft and sweet with her. It makes me so sick. She was playing damsel in distress. She had been in the hospital sick. Nobody cared if she lived or died. Anyhow he did get her number where she lives. I am gonna ask him to call her in my presence. He is concerned about the baby.

Cyn,
OW is using baby to get to my husband. I also know she got pregnant to snag my husband. My husband thinks I am stuck in the past. I keep telling him that it is the presence not the past that bothers me. Why can't he understand it is the OC I have a hard time dealing with and the fact that OW will forever be a thorn in my side as long as I stay with husband.