Hi,

The is my first post on this forum. Rather go through our history there is a recent post by myself (Is there hope?) on the Infidelity General Questions Forum which explains the current situation. I'm not sure how to put the link to that post here.

To summarize, my wife and I had been in recovery with N/C with OM for 6 months. OC was born Feb 04, and is dearly loved by myself. However contact was resumed to discuss OC. This led to a meeting between W/OC and OM which has led W to be confused again. All the feelings have come back and we are now back at stage 1.
At the moment she is still thinking about whether or not to give our M a chance. W realises that for us to succeed there must be n/c. But she thinks it is hard/impossible because of OC. How can her feelings for him fade without N/C.

W believes OM is genuinely interested in OC. For my part I am not sure how long his interest in OC would continue if he knew there was no opportunity to resume his relationship with my W.

We are looking for solutions and ideas how this could be resolved. Please Please help.

PR

PaleRider and Jill,

I read the history, and it gives me a headache. The bottom line is that you both have much work to do. Jill---to you I'd say that although there is hurt in the past of your marriage, to assume that a new life with the OM would be better or free of these issues would be incredibly naive. You've made many mistakes in your marriage (as has your husband), and you both will need to learn to deal with them and establish new behaviors conducive to a happy marriage before you can have a relationship that will thrive. And because you must do the work---you might as well do it in your current marriage, to ensure the welfare of your children.

I'm thrilled you're getting help from MarriageBuilders. I counseled with Steve Harley for about a year while my wife was having an affair (and she ended up pregnant with the OM's child---our third). The OM knew about the pregnancy, but my wife and he fought bitterly as the affair was winding down, and we have never had any contact with him since the child was born. This affair ended over six years ago, and our marriage is much better---so you can be successful.

As far as solutions to your current situation, what MB will teach the two of you is how to be completely honest with each other, to brainstorm solutions and negotiate safely and effectively, and to use the policy of Joint Agreement to come up with win-win solutions that preserve and build your love for each other. (There's the part about eliminating lovebusters and meeting needs too---but that's pretty obvious). The two of you will come up with a solution together that will work. This may mean cutting the OM out of the picture---because the child was born while you were married, it is presumed to be your child---he would need to sue for parental rights. It may mean that PaleRider would handle all contact with the OM should you decide to remain in contact (for instance, if child support and his parental status has already been legally determined). There are many other solutions to this problem---the important thing is to find one that you both are enthusiastic about, and come up with a way to execute it that protects your marriage.

And Jill, you should cease contact with the OM. Dr. Harley likens affairs to chemical substance addictions---and you can see why. You need to get clean again, and you will need to remain in no contact probably for the rest of your life, should you want your marriage to be successful.

PaleRider---your travel seems to be a major issue. I would suggest that you not take this latest assignment---brainstorm something creative that will keep you around your home, so that you are accountable to your marriage. You obviously have a weakness here, and you need to demonstrate by concrete behavior---not by mouthing some words---that you can remain faithful to your wife. The two of you will need to spend as much time together to rebuild your marriage's love.

Good luck with the counseling.

K.

Thank you for your words. Regarding the job, I do agree, but at the moment I feel like being between a rock and a hard place with that. I have to go away now for 5 weeks. However I will be working on a plan to reduce the future travel and also to take my wife(J) and baby with.
Regarding your other points about honesty, I can say that J is being very open with me. 2 days ago she shared her private diary with me. She did this of her own volition, I did not ask. I only wish I had seen it before. It has helped me so much to understand the inner turmoil she has and is going through. It just made me want to hug her and protect her from any more hurt.
We have agreed a way forward from this point. Basically, she will have N/C. We will work with MB.
We will have conselling. She wants to use the 5 week period that I am away to do some serious thinking. Then in February we will review where we are.
This is what we have agreed. Its fair to say that I am more enthusiastic than she is. J has many negative thoughts about the future. The lack of replies to our posts indicated to her that maybe people think we are such a disaster area that there is no hope for us. I'm just trying to be as supportive as I can.
I know she is struggling with her feelings. It cannot be easy.
I said in my earlier post that we had gone back to Square 1 again. On reflection that is not quite the case. Last year J, did not think she could love me again and had no desire for me whatsoever. However we had such a wonderful time together at Christmas that showed us both we can be very happy together. She fell in love with me all over again(her words). So yes we went backwards but not totally.

Have to get back to work now, so I must end my post. Its just so good to know that we are not alone.

Pale,
I wish I had some good advice, but I am in the same situation you are in, only about 1 year ago. My WW OC is due in March '05.

To me, it sounds that if you can make it this far, you can make it for much longer.

You sound like a good person and your wife has been trying too. Focus on the strengths of your relationship.

I would agree that NC is critical. Keep your phone handy and call. I would suggest doing things to make sure she knows you are in her life and that you can be a good, if not the best part of her life. It may be goofy or whatever, but when I go on my next trip (2 weeks) I plan on sending flowers and such.

Keep us posted.

PalerRider:

Often when dealing with the early phase of "No Contact", the Harley's will recommend that you and your spouse take as long a vacation as possible away from the hassles of your jobs, your family, and the OP. This is to allow the two of you to be each other's sole focus, and to help speed the recovery from withdrawal.

The fact that you're going away for 5 weeks isn't good at all. You can be successful in spite of it, but you're making the recovery process harder by your absence. I expect that Steve or Jenn will tell you the same thing. If there's any way to change your job situation, I would suggest that you look into it.

PR & J

Sorry I didn’t reply sooner. You are not a disaster area. I was slow to reply cause I was thinking I wouldn’t involve OM in any case. It’s unfortunate he’s in the loop this far in.

I have decided not to involve OM at all in out situation. I told W to tell him “assume I had the abortion you suggested.” (He may not have heard me if I told him cause there’d been my .45 screwed in his ear!)

Don’t involve him; do spend lots of alone time together! No Contact means No Contact! If OM doesn’t like that he can pony up the cash to pursue the matter. (and pay you CS)

Personally I don't anything from OM.
I love OC dearly, as much as my own children. I cannot imagine life without her.
On the other hand we are going to tell her the truth at the appropriate time. There has been enough lies. Honesty is required. Too many people know anyway to keep it a secret. Whilst my emotional side would want at times to deny OM anything, I have to recognise that there were 2 in the A and to completely deny him any part in OC life seems at times inhuman. But the main thing for me is that there should be N/C between W and OM. My W and I have to come to an agreement how we can handle the situation. Not easy!

Inhuman my butt!

Kinda inhuman to mess with a married woman! No?!?

The OM in my sitch. tryed to play that "such a shame OC wont know real father" crap. Go find your own girl! Shoulda left mine alone!

I don't feel the least bit bad leaving him out of the picture. He stole a lot more from me than that!

A little late to develope a conscience. OK to take another mans woman, but don't ignore the [censored] child? Makes me sick!

Palerider,
I am not sure how my situation will play out, I will be where you are in about a year.

My WW and I agreed (mostly cause I lb'ed my way into it, I hope it does not backfire) that contact during the preg is out of the question. At least unless we can come to some sort of agreement. Not sure if I would ever agree to anything, but stranger things have happened.

I do not agree with Painter. I do not know his whole situation, but the kid has done nothing wrong. I plan to let the OM be involved with the OC. JUST NOT MY WW. If I have to, I will drive the child to the OM house and pick him/her up. I will mail copies of the ultrasound (and the associated bills) to the OM. I cannot condone contact.

THe only way I could consider it, would be if I was there. That should be most uncomfortable. I do not know how it could work.

I plan on trying to keep the OM out of my WW life, not out of the OC life. I am going to pretend the OC was before we were married.

Good luck.

Best bet is no contact. I am a former WW, had 2 oc with Xmm, tried contact, pure hell. Been NC for 3 weeks now and it is a great release. No worring, less fighting between H and I.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">but the kid has done nothing wrong . I plan to let the OM be involved with the OC. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">OC's innocence is one of the top reasons why we DON'T have any contact whatsoever w/ x-om.

It is interesting to hear the different perspectives though.

I am mostly trying to stay away from these boards, so that I don't carry this habit into my new job. However, I read once in a while. I am an OC conceived of my mother's A. My Dad, the man who raised me, is the person in the world I am closest to. (I am also a formerly BW whose H has a child born of his affair.)

I advise that you do tell your child the truth about her conception, but a big part of the truth is not just that she has a bio-father who is different than her Dad, but that you loved her so much that her biological origins don't matter. One time I asked my Dad "How could you treat me like I was 'your own'?" He said "You are my own. I was there for your birth, the first day you walked, your first day of school. I walked you down the aisle at your wedding. I was there for all the important times of your life except maybe the least important--your conception. You are my own and no one gets to tell me any different--even you." I felt completely loved and accepted.

There is time for her to get to know her bio-father when she is a young adult. For right now, IMO, she needs a stable, two-parent family and in a few years she will need the truth about her conception.

We are a funny society. We say that adoption is good and noble, but we have this strong insistence on the need to know bio-parents. Some adopted kids, and some kids conceived of affairs, have a need to know the missing bio-parent, but many others don't.

MJ

Thanks for the replies. Mary Jane, thank you especially.
To Canthis help, my advice to you is something I have now learned from bitter experience. Don't leave it. You must agree with your W how contact about OC is to be. You must make a plan, both agree to it and stick to it. For me, we talked about it, but never came to any concrete conclusions and that in the end has only brought more pain to all of us.
I was the one in contact with OM. It was hard, but I was doing it for my W and OC's sake. My wife had/has intense feelings of guilt about depriving OM of his rights as a father, and also his parents. In my conversations with OM we went round in circles. Eventually he said he was pulling away, and wanted to leave my W and I to get on with our life. My mistake was I should have had him write it down, so I could show it to W. I also should have asked him to define more clearly what he meant ie did he even want to know when OC was born. Basically it meant my W had to take my word for what was said, and I think in the circumstances I could not be said to be the most unbiased person. Because of this, eventually contact was resumed as W wanted to hear from OM what he wanted. This has also led to conflict as to what was said between him and I, as he has told her that I said some things that I know I did not say.
So make a plan....

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> My wife had/has intense feelings of guilt about depriving OM of his rights as a father, </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I totally understand this. Xmm has no other kids. I felt guilty as hell keeping the kids from him. I wised up. He also used this guilt against me. Let Xmm walk away and take it as a blessing. Less drama in your life.