For awhile I thought having contact was best. I have now changed my mind.

First between Xmm and I, things went totally down hill. I now have my 5yr old in therapy from all the drama. Ended contact almost a month ago and things are going good.

H and Xow, tryng to have contact with his son, she is to busy playing games, using the kids. This past weekend she tried to attack me. H has no backbone, doesn't really give a damn, says he will do things when he is ready. I'm sick of my kids getting to know their brother then Xow pulling the visits. No more. I told him I no longer care.

All in all I now agree that no contact is best.

I'm beginning to think the same. All of these people try to do the right thing because of the children and one or all can't work this out. It to me a shame. So many children coming out hurt in the selfish act of adults. ! <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> Sunny D

I can see why, already I have been thru drama with OW - why cuz she won't grow up & do what is best for her child, would rather play games.

IF & thats a big IF, H & I stay together I can see her playing games even with a court order for V until she gets tired or finds a man of her own. She hates me for no other reason than H chose to stay with me & not her. Hello I was his wife way before she was thought of! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

It is really sad cuz the BC suffer & so does the OC as well as the BW when contact is attempted & the OW can't stop their stupid, silly games. Can't say I blame you at all for changing your POV.

Hi,

I feel for anybody having contact after reading KTbunch's thread. I am waiting for her to respond as to how OW can still manipulate when you got a court order. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> I feel so sad for her 4 year old who got attached to OC. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> I doubt I will stay with my husband mainly because he wants contact and is refuseing to take it to court. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

I have always felt that contact was a bad decision. It allows too many lines to be crossed. It does not define what is okay and not okay in the marriage. It leaves to many openings for feelings to get hurt and lives to be altered unnecessarily. I don't think it is in the best interest of the children. Yes they are innocent but that does not mean that God allowed them to be here to shake up lives either. They have their own purpose in his sight. OW have these kids to hold onto the MM, but maybe God allows them to be born to remind them of the choices they made or to give them a parting gift I don't know!

I do know that they have their own purpose and if it is upsetting to your hosehold then that was not the reason for their birth. God does not do things to make us unhappy. He wants the families to strive and flourish. Maybe the OW wanted a child so badly that he gave them one. That doesn't mean OC was meant to break up the family. I also think it is very sel;fish of our H to think that we should just accept this and move on when we did not ask for it.

How many of them would really stick around if it happened to them - I don't think my H would be around at all!!

So what makes them think we are going to accept it and move on - Because We Have Been For Years!!!

NO MORE!!!
THEY MUST BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE FOR THEIR OWN ACTIONS!!

They have to deal with it I don't - I tried and got shut out so now my H can handle it on his own - without the support of a wife and kids.

JT

What gets me is when contact is going on, why can't all act like adults and do what is best for the kids?

In my situation Xow lets H and kids see oc for a month or so then pulls visits. Then H gets a call on her wanting him to sing off on his rights. Then she is *****ing cause he isn't being a fahter to OC. This summer was the final draw. Having Oc over to our house, playing with his brothers and sister, next thing you know she is pulling the same stunt again. Now we are left yet again explaining to the kids why OC can't come over to play. My oldest(13) says she will see her brother again, Ow likes it or not.

I don't see why judges don't see this crap and do what is best for the child! If momma is too crazy to do things right, then she shouldn't have any. I don't like the idea of taking any child from its mother, but when these mothers keep scaring these children, how good is that? I think w/ more of this situation happening, the laws are going to have to change! They really are. If you cant handle the fact your XMP (person) is with someone else, then WHY put yourself though this with a child that DID NOT ask to be here. Oh they may say, God don't make mistakes and that is true, only people make them and the children suffer though them. Do you think God wanted a child to be w/ crack head or a HIV person, no not me. People make these mistakes! And why would you think that a person would act like an adult after acting so much like a teenager on a over load of harmones! When a woman is scorned there is nothing in the world like it. We don't like to think someone else was "better" than us or someone "loved" someone more than us. But the fact is some poeple are SORRY for their mistakes and thats all the other person was, and that would be hard for anyone to accept. You trusted (a person who lies in the first place) and gave them a part of you and now you have nothing left but this little "reminder", that you yourself had the power to have/or not, and yes sin doesn't go unpunished which ever way you choose. But the ones who have had these children as a deception tool is wrong and should not be allowed to use the child in that matter and maybe one day the judge will see this. Sorry venting again. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> Sunny D

Sunny,

I agree with you 100%.

JT

Thanks JT! You know a friend told me the a devil does his work too! And can these children be a result of that? I do beleive that the devil works also and and MAYBE just MAYBE this might be his way of breaking up sooooooooo many FAMILIES. You know the devil hates marrage and with the times it is only going to get worst. More and more people are going to be looking for answers as a result of the devils work and I am so glad I found this place. Read Revelations. The world and people who make these choices are here and now. Ever present in our day to day lives. It is up to US to fight for God and what we belive in and I am ready for that challage.( I'm like KT I can spell just type too fast and dont' have spell check.) Over and over I see the devil trying his best to get into my life. I myself have chosen not to let him in. !!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> Now matter what! No matter what the OW does and no matter what anyone saids! I love the Lord, he gave me my husband and there is nothing the OW or anyone can say. I am only here to give glory to him and w/him I can not , will not let the devil take over my life. Oh and by the way I almost lost this post 2-3 times so the devil is really mad at me but I say BRING IT ON! I can not loose w/ the power of GOD !!!!
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> Sunny D

JT, did you mean what you said? really????? Did you hear what you said? I can agree with you on one point......God has a purpose, and we don't know what that is until it happens....but God does not make mistakes, nor does he give us children to punish us. As an xow I did not give birth to my child to hold over xmm head. I gave birth to my child because that was what was best for my family and what I felt GOD wanted me to do. Most xmm are not in the child's life so there IS NO WAY to hold it over there head. It has nothing to do with the child, and everything to do with ALL the ADULTS. If they can't come together for the better of the child.....even one adult can mess the whole relationship up. does not matter what title that adult has. Maybe the lesson is for xmm????? xmm and ow??????? Who knows........maybe even bs?????? Only time can tell. I agree that nc is best for the adults. In some cases as well the oc. I'm sorry JT, it just struck me wrong with that comment. NOT all ow are devils and out to keep your husband. And dangle that little baby over there head.

NTMO, No not all XOW are but most here are. Read the post. Most ow here and in our lives have made it hell. And what goes around comes around. If many of us had a OW how wanted to do what was best for the child, then we would have more people w/ contact. But if you read here, you will find this is not the case. There only a few that have contact and it is working. If KT's family can not make C work, well that saids that her OW has just taken her toll on KT's family. Is this far to the child, NO. But it is not at the hands of the BS and XMM not making the effort. So how many children have suffered? This is why that people here say that NC is best for all involved. But every case is different and everyone here I think has given it some kind of chance to work. I hope no one took me wrong saying that children are the work of the devil, but you have to know that A is a in the ten commandments and God did not intend for this child to bring the OW and MM closer! You can bet on that. Like I said God doesn't make mistakes PEOPLE DO!
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> Sunny D

What have these OW done that is so "unreasonable"?

HI NTMO,

I think you are reading JT's post from your standpoint versus her standpoint. You are getting on the defensive. Most OW do get pregnant to steal MM from BS. That was not meant for you if you are not in that category. I have a lot of admiration for JT and must defend her as to what I know she meant. She never said God made a mistake. My OW is very manipulative and has from day one tried to break up husband and I. We had a very close relationship up until she came into the picture.

They make a point of "NOT" getting along. They don't want us w/ their babies, when we have done nothing to show we would hurt or harm them. Oh it was / is ok to "share" our H, but hell no on the contact w/ these kids. And granted, you may not have gotten pg just for force your MM to crap or get off the pot, but ALOT have. Speaking from personal experience. I am a mother of two I had a lisened day care in my home for years! I am cert in child first aid, and CPR, which I might add that H would freak out if one of the children ever got hurt or where bleeding, and this woman who knew and was VERY hurt my H wanted to be with his family and home and wife over her, insist that she thinks I will harm this child. A child that has my H blood running though it? Now that is crazy. I have NEVER said a cross word to her and NEVER did I want something to happen to this child. H is the one who told her to have an abortion, not me. But I'm still the bad one for letting him come back to a home he longed for! So like I said a woman scorned is a very bad thing. And I think thats why most do make contact so hard to do. Just go back and read some post on contact. No, not every ow is like this and No not every wife is willing and loving and forgiving enough to handle a OC in her life, but God makes me be strong, and If you look at my post, when she was in the Hospital fixing to loose the baby, I'm the one that called people to pray for them, called my church, so I'm not a difficult person, and I can only hope that our OW gets some forgiveness from somewhere so we all can do the right thing for this child.
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> Sunny D

Menthe boyz,

If you want to know what makes the OW in MY life "so unreasonable" Sunny D summed it up best -

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> So like I said a woman scorned is a very bad thing. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Not speaking FOR ALL OW, but most if you read on this board are a TRIP, they are selfish B's who care only about their own needs & desires & the OC is used as a pawn in their sick little game to try & hang on to a man who was never theirs to begin with by having a baby for him & if that doesn't work there is hell to pay!!!

In my case OW was left to raise yet another child alone & my H came back to me & only me, not for his kids so -- that is a double slap in the face to her, so what else can she do now that she looks like a total & complete fool, be unreasonable about the baby being in our home cuz SHE is UNCOMFORTABLE w/ the baby being around me, which it total bullsh*&%. She is mad cuz after all her scheming, whoring around & having baby #3 w/ no man to help her the only weapons she has is the baby.

That is how OW IN MY LIFE is "so unreasonable."

Ok. I don't want to threadjack. I also don't want to start a raging debate. However I would like to open a true and honest dialogue.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Most OW do get pregnant to steal MM from BS. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Genia,
I have posted more than once in support of you, and I know you are going through an excruciating time right now, however, I must address this.

This statement is a complete fallacy. Period.

It DOES happen, and I'm not saying it doesn't, but I'll say this...I have been around boards for quite a long time, and NEVER, even on our private boards where we may be prone to be more open, have I EVER run across even ONE woman who fits that description. The simple fact is that no OW could "trap" a MM unless she poked holes in his condom. (though I bet it's happened!) In EVERY other situation, the H bears equal responsibility in a pregnancy. As a matter of fact, I HAVE seen the OPPOSITE happen, ie a MM who told the OW he was infertile, only to end up getting her pregnant. I have seen a couple of situations where BOTH parties PLANNED a child, but even those are few and extremely far between.
The simple fact is that I'd venture to guess at least %85 of these pregnancies are unplanned accidents.

However, I am fully aware that it is simple human nature to want to "blame" someone, and if you can blame someone outside the relationship, it makes healing with H much easier. I COMPLETELY understand how that ends up happening, but it ends up as false healing.
Healing based on an untruth isn't healing.

It sounds like some of you simply see the fact that OW had her child as being unreasonable. I was asking a specific questions, and "OW is a witch" really isn't a specific answer.

Let me address one topic that WAS mentioned. The BS being around the child.
I completely agree that it is completely unreasonable to try to keep the W away from the child. However, the H has a legal right to have that child around anyone he chooses, so why is the OW to blame? Is the H standing up for his parental rights and demanding he have his visitation in his home? He should be. So again, it's blaming OW when the actual party responsible is H. There is no reason for the BW not to have the same contact with the child her H does. But at what point? Is it reasonable to expect this OW to simply hand H the child at her doorstep the first time and let him take the child wherever? No. I don't think so. But arrangements for meeting in a public place for the first few visits is easy,a nd a good way to adjust. After that, yes, she is unreasonable if she tries to stop BW from involvement.


On the general topic of "OW is just pissed my H doesn't want her"...
How do you know that?
If you haven't heard her SAY it, or read a letter or email in which she states it or something like it, it isn't FACT. It is merely your opinion and one that may be totally off. Where does the info come from? Does it come from a H who is already proven to be a liar? If so, it is most definitely not a reliable source.

I'm not saying there aren't unreasonable women in these situations, and I don't support unreasonable actions. I support all of you building your marriages, but occasionally wonder what they are being built on, because it seems sometimes they are being built on more lies...

Hi,

MeNtheboys,

I appreciate the post you dedicated to me,luv, and others on Emotional abuse. I have to disagree with you on friendly terms. I know about this stuff because of some of what I have experienced in life. I was raped by a married man and I never once called his wife to inform her of what her husband did to me. I thought that would be too painful for her and I did not want to put her through the pain. A baby was born out of the rape. I gave the baby up for adoption painfully because due to circumstances I felt the baby would have a better life. My marriage fell apart after that in spite of counseling. The point I am trying to make is that I could have asked for CS and told her about the incident and brought pain to her but I did not. I think a woman always has a choice about whether to conceive a baby unless they are raped. There are too many forms of birth control out there to say oops! I got pregnant but I did not mean too. After divorcing my first husband at age 23 I did date a few men. I had this one guy who wanted to get me pregnant because he lost a baby. He threw my birth control in the trash. Do you know I went in the trash when he wasn't looking and hid it. I kept taking it. I do not beleive in bringing a baby into this world outside of marriage. I never have. So how can you accidently get pregnant by a man who you don't know is married. There are always signs that the relationship is not serious enough to have a baby such as why hasn't he given you his home phone, or why don't he bring you home with him. Why would a woman get pregnant by a man who cannot even do that? Shouldn't that raise questions in her head. And if he told her he is married? Hello? Is a baby suppose to be a joke. No, a baby is meant to be raised in matrimony and even at that there is the risk of divorce.

Trust me Genia, you and I have more in common than you may think. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

However, as to the issue of accidental pregenancy, the point is STILL that the "accident" falls on the shoulders of BOTH parties involved. Heck, my older son was the result of failed BC...I was married at the time, but it doesn't really matter. I can think of four people I know IRL who became pregnant while using different forms of BC (one being the Sponge right before they took it off the market)

Regardles of any differing opinions we may have now or in the future, I still wish healing and happiness for you!

Who's lies. Both in the A lie! The OW is living a lie and now when H gets so busted, because of the OC. I'm sure none of us BS think or feel that their H are 100% truthful in the story that is told to us about the OW. But when OW gets pissed and calls me to tell me even more lies, well who at that point do you hear? NONE! We are all grown and we are all aware of the hurt that yes TWO selfish people went to inorder to meet their own needs. Without thought to how would the BS, BC or OC feel in the long run. That goes back to people make mistakes, and yes we all have the free will to make our own mind on having an A , OW, OC ect. Just like we have the free will to stay M or not. And for a WS to have visits w/a child they didn't plan on having. BS's can not "make" their spouses choose NC, the do that very well on thier own. But the thing is that in most (not all) the OP knows that the person is M, did they stand up for what was right? No they didn't so yes they are just as guilty!! No I don't 100% blame XOW for the fact that my H slept w/ her, but she is no better than the other person in the act. Do both of them deserve to be forgiven? Yes, they both are. But to use a child as a result of such a selfish act has its own punishment. Everyone suffers, but there are those still out there bragging about being or waiting for the OP to leave their spouses. Where they lay their heads for most of the nights is where they want to be. And I myself have WAY to much respect for my mind, body and soul to be that kind of person. But then again, I do have a heart and I wouldn't do this to my worst enemy, but thats just me. God made me proud of what I am and what I am doing and who I've made a point to M and trust. No he is far from being perfect, but he is still the one God gave to me and for us to make a commitment to each other w/ ya know "that little pc of paper" At least me sleeping w/ my H I wasnt breaking the ten commandments. I will be judged for me and me only so I have to deal w/ my actions when that time comes. I must add in the OW stand point that if mine acted 1/2 as resonable as the ones that come here, then we wouldn't have a problem w/ being adults about it all.
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> Sunny D

Thanks for your concern for my healing. I was always raised that birth control was mostly the responsibility of the woman. The pills work most of the time, now they have patches and shots. I have made my argument so I rest my case.

PS: If you used BC and it failed I am not talking specifically to you. Some OW use no BC. I know that my OW used none. I have no idea why she wanted to get pregnant but she seemed happy about it. She definately uses baby to try and separate husband and I. And I think she will be successful even though I have fought it tooth and nail. I am always cordial to her. I have tried to fight her with kindness to WH and also to her.

<small>[ August 11, 2004, 01:42 PM: Message edited by: Genia ]</small>