I have been lurking for a while but decided to post when I read your list of unreasonable behaviours on another thread. My H's ex-OW has done just about everything on your list but, surprisingly, so has his ex-wife.

My H has an OC that we have contact with. I also have two stepchildren (boy and girl) from my H's previous marriage. Reading your list was so familiar. I experienced these types of power plays in the relationship with both of the mothers.

Since it is rather unusual to have both step children from a previous marriage and an OC, I thought I would share my experience hoping that it would help you understand a bit more.

In conversations with me and my H, his ex-W brings up their marriage. The difference that I see is that with an ex-W, the relationship is long over and the person is no longer a threat. While, for the OW, there are lingering feelings of -- he formed a relationship with her while we were married, something he could do again. I think that is why we are more sensitive to remarks from the OW than from an ex-wife. The ex-OW does it because she sees it upsets you. Kill her with kindness -- let her know that there is nothing she can tell you that you don't already know. When the game doesn't get the response expected, it will stop. (And where is your H during these references - he should step in firmly and put some perspective in this.)

The scheduling games, collecting money but not really wanting "dad" in their life, breaking agreements -- this all happens with the ex-W too. I think that some women whose relationships did not work but are left with children believe that, as the mother, their feelings and their rights are much more important than the father's. Sometimes I believe I only disagree with that statement because I am living with the father.

If the shoe was on the other foot, and my H made promises to me about a future that he did not fulfill, then ran off and left me with a child, I might behave the same way. It's not that I would deliberately try to make things difficult for him, but at the same time, I would not make it easier and I would take the attitude that I have to look out for myself, just the way he decided to.

Time spent on holidays, birthdays, etc. I believe that holidays should be spent with the mother. I know I would not want my children spending Christmas Day somewhere else. This is a very tough thing but I think it comes with the break-up of the relationship. Neither party can have everything. In my case, my H and I have a home and children together. The ex-OW has only her daughter. I would not feel right about taking her daughter away from her on holidays.

My H's ex-wife has bad-mouthed him and made the children feel disloyal to her for loving him. She has told them that he "left them". There is no way to deal with this type of thing. We let the kids know that we care about them and love them -- sometimes adults say harsh things about each other out of anger. As hard as it is, we never, ever, bad-mouth their mother to get even.

The one thing that you wrote that your H should have addressed firmly and quickly with the ex-OW is her telling your oldest BC that MM does not think he is his father. That comment would have received an immediate threat of no more contact.

Your children have to be fully protected as well. No one has a right to say such a thing in your child's presence, not even to preserve the relationship with the OC.

My H and I broke off contact several times over the type of behaviours that you described. They are irritating and disruptive. But, if you really want what is best for the child, you learn to ignore them. I don't even get involved with his ex-wife -- he has to do that on his own. And, I take the same policy with the ex-OW. You should not be saddled with the responsibility of making things work out when you did not create the problem.

It helped me also to look at things from the ex-OW's point of view. Whether it was right or wrong, she probably thought that she would have a future with a full family. Some of those impressions are definitely given to OWs by our husbands. Then, the men get scared, jump ship and run. As bitter, and angry, and hurt as we are as wives, so are OWs. It sounds strange, but I feel a certain kinship with the ex-OW because we were hurt by the same man.

I was quite angry with my H for the way he treated OW. In his case, he never meant to have anything more than affair but he led the woman on because that was the only way she would agree to the sex. So, she thought that his marriage was on the verge of collapse, he was no longer intimate with his wife, and divorce was imminent. I am sure that is just the tip of the iceberg of lies that he built with this woman to lead her on. It shocked and hurt me that he would go that far for his own selfish reasons.

I hope that none of this post is offensive to you. I just hate to see contact lost over these meaningless mind games that adults play. I was trying to give you hope that what you are experiencing is normal when the emotions have not yet settled among the adults.

No contact may jolt the ex-OW into thinking about what she has done. It certainly worked in my case and this time around contact is much better -- not without bumps -- but definitely better.

Whatever happens finally, I hope is right for you and your family. I just wanted you to know that the types of problems you are experiencing are inevitable when there is a breakup whether it is a marriage or an affair and a child is involved.

Good luck to you.

Thanks for your personal response. Let me fill you in on some things so that you can understand some more of what is happening here:

(And where is your H during these references - he should step in firmly and put some perspective in this.)

I completely agree. The way he has chosen to handle these specifics is to ignore OW & act as if she is not getting to us. Personally I would prefer a more--putting her in her place @ that direct moment--type of handling it. I would prefer that he set her straight & say these things are NOT true or whatever. Instead, in those instances he says, Let's go, & it makes sense why; the kids are around, doens't want to argue in front of them, doens't want to make it worse, blah blah blah BUT it has left me feeling UNdefended & alone. kwim? SO I see my only recourse is to defend me self---not physically.


The difference that I see is that with an ex-W, the relationship is long over and the person is no longer a threat. While, for the OW, there are lingering feelings of --

Well, the A & 'relationship' w/ OW has also been long over (7 yo), but we did not meet OC until a littel more than 2.5 years ago. I think OW does have some unresolved issues about it though..but seeing as I am still here & w/ more children you would think she would get a clue!

If the shoe was on the other foot, and my H made promises to me about a future that he did not fulfill, then ran off and left me with a child, I might behave the same way.

I can also appreciate that..but there were no promises made or implied, 'assumed' by OW probably, but never made or implied. Pg was completely 'unplanned', BC was being used. Yes, I don't doubt it was scary & painful for OW to be left in the lurch----but also-step up & take responsibility for the fact that you were sleeping w/ a MARRIED man & you knew it! But I think those personal issues & resentments are FAIR to have but I don't care--take it up w/ your own therapist on your own time & leave us & OC out of it.

My H's ex-wife has bad-mouthed him and made the children feel disloyal to her for loving him. She has told them that he "left them". There is no way to deal with this type of thing. We let the kids know that we care about them and love them -- sometimes adults say harsh things about each other out of anger. As hard as it is, we never, ever, bad-mouth their mother to get even.

I agree & same here. Technically, I think OW does not say anything now but her family does. We do the same thing: try to deal w/ it as best as we can & not react as low as them. We do not try to 'get even'.

The one thing that you wrote that your H should have addressed firmly and quickly with the ex-OW is her telling your oldest BC that MM does not think he is his father. That comment would have received an immediate threat of no more contact.

I completely agree. OW was trying to get us to have less C @ the time soooo...I am still bothered to this day by how H handled (or actually did not handle) it but to his credit I think he was just shocked. That is the one thing, of all the things, I still hold against her, in my heart. It was not true anyway--but no matter--the damage was done which I think is what she was hoping for.

You should not be saddled with the responsibility of making things work out when you did not create the problem.

I do not feel saddled. I have loooong gotten over feeling responsible to make this situation work. I actually feel frustrated by the knowledge that there really is nothing I can do to make it work since I am not doing anything to prohibit it from working. My hands are clean, OW & H will have to answer for this someday themselves.

I hope that none of this post is offensive to you. I just hate to see contact lost over these meaningless mind games that adults play. I was trying to give you hope that what you are experiencing is normal when the emotions have not yet settled among the adults.

No I am not offended. I do not think it is meaningless though. Not when it is a continuous state of things. OC is over 6.5 yo, time to suck it up & wake up to reality.

No contact may jolt the ex-OW into thinking about what she has done. It certainly worked in my case and this time around contact is much better -- not without bumps -- but definitely better.

Maybe & I would hope so...but just before summer we let the therapsit know we were completely done because of these games & she let OW know. OW reacted that she didn't want OC to not have a dad-------& yet......here we are.

@ the same time I am thinking it is all for the best---OW wants control & w/ us out of the picture she gets what she wants & we can get the peace & harmony for our family that we want. Now H says we are completely moving away, out of state, & part of it is to avoid this continuing madness.

I apprecaite the encouragement & you taking the time out to post this.

I am glad your marriage is recovered to this point for you & H & OC.

sincerely,
ktbunch

KT,

I can see why you have grown so weary of your situation and just decided to stop contact. I could not have done it without my H being on the same page as far as how things with the OW should be handled.

You said:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The way he has chosen to handle these specifics is to ignore OW & act as if she is not getting to us. Personally I would prefer a more--putting her in her place @ that direct moment--type of handling it. I would prefer that he set her straight & say these things are NOT true or whatever. Instead, in those instances he says, Let's go, & it makes sense why; the kids are around, doens't want to argue in front of them, doens't want to make it worse, blah blah blah BUT it has left me feeling UNdefended & alone. kwim? SO I see my only recourse is to defend me self---not physically. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My H and I talked at length about the way he seemed to "defend" the OW in the beginning, openly by words ('she's not really a mean person ... grrrrr...) or by the absence of words -- (like your example, 'let's just go.")

I found out that he felt very guilty about what he had done to her, leaving her to raise a child alone, and he walked very carefully on her feelings. I was like "Excuse me, I have feelings too and you have also done some pretty bad things to me!"

When he started to understand that part of being committed to the marriage meant defending my feelings as well, things got a lot better.

My H is a huge conflict avoider. He would rather switch than fight. But, he learned to pay attention to what the ex-OW would say and to tell her that she was out of line. Aside from sending a strong message to the ex-OW that she was expected to act respectfully as well, it was a great confidence-builder for my own ego.

You said:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My hands are clean, OW & H will have to answer for this someday themselves. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Completely agree. You cannot make the situation right, you can only open your heart and home and see what develops. It is sad that the OW is not understanding what a wonderful opportunity this is for her child to have a father in her life and to have wonderful experiences with your family.

Again, whatever is best for you and your family is what I hope happens in the end. Thank you for your reply and clarifications. Good luck to you and your family.

<small>[ August 13, 2004, 10:12 PM: Message edited by: HappyAgain2004 ]</small>