LynnG I just wished you would stop saying and thinking that I've ever said that the kids of the marriage don't come first. I've never said that and would never say that. You have a way of twisting everything I say into a negitive way. NOT FAIR. What I said is the oc is no less important than the bc. If you don't agree than so be it, but stop putting down someone who does not agree with you. As well, I have every right to call xmm a lair. I have every right. You seem to think that all these woman can forgive the uh, but the ow there is NO room for forgivness. Again NOT FAIR. Even YOU have no idea what all he (your husband) told that woman who is a throne in your side with that oc. He can tell you anything you want to justify and lessen the hurt, but the only two people who really knows is him and her. If that oc would have never came you probally would of never known he was even having an affair. Who knows. The words you use to describe the oc and ow are vile to me. Again we can agree to disagree. I do honestly feel after reading everything I've read from you that you did things that if YOU were caught would of gotten your husband in awhole lot of trouble, so to me you were thinking of only yourself when you two did that. You have stated many times before that you don't feel the ow deserves anything from you. I agree, but the oc does from your husband. I think some of what you've done was plain out mean. That you did it to hurt ow but who it really hurt is oc. One day that child may come to your door and I hope to God that you realize that child has some valid reasons to have truthful answers from your husband. Not well I felt it was better to stay in the marrige and I have my own kids to love and be with. I had my own kids to play soccor with and etc. there was no time for you or enough love for you. You need to also take your blame in how the oc will feel. I will give you credit in the fact that you kept nc all the way through. At least you did not go back and forth and then at an older age when it's more diffucult to explain try and gain access to that boy. As for me wanting no contact with him...you don't have a clue why and I've only generlized why. You have no right to put me down and spew to me as you have about that. I know you think it is so unfair that a man should have to pay cs when he did not want a child. Well, how fair is it that a man can walk away but come back anytime he wants in and out in and out? For what ever reasons. It is in my court papers that xmm wants no visation with oc. But it also states that if he changes his mind he can have it. How fair is that? As far as what I did as being mean by having an affair with a mm. Please don't twist my words here. While I was in the affair I did not think of her. I only took mm's word about her and what I knew of her from before. She was never my friend. yes I was feeling guilty over the situation but pushed in the back of my head. People do make mistakes. Either you learn from them or you don't. Plain and simple. At some point you have to stop throwing it in the ow's face how she was mean. Especially when it's over and they know what they've done is wrong. It's just not fair. Just think your xow has raised her son on 60 something a week for almost 18 years and that is not even half of the cost to raise a child. You very lucky to get away with it and she never raised it on you....but I'm sure she did not have the means to do so, or the know how. She did not affect you one bit financialy. You should be saying wow, I'm not back in court every three years with her raising my husband cs. She has also kept that boy away from you guys. I'm sure at some point he started asking all kinds of questions and wanted to meet your husband. She has not done that either. So at first she created problems for you and your husbnad. Well, you nipped that in the butt. No matter what the reasons were for her doing it. You put a ro on her that will stay on her record for the rest of her life. She has to explain that if someone were to ever run her records for employment or anything else in that matter. You had the means to keep her away. You know Lynn I try and stay away from your posts as you and I don't agree in any way shape or form, but last night when I read your post to me and mitbz, I just lost it. I was already in a bad mood and I should of taken my first reaction and gotten off the computer. I did not though. I knew Justice would edit them and at the time I just did not care. For the record about contact.......please again don't twist my words......FOR ME I feel it's best.........for my daughter I don't. If I had to do it I would and I would be an adult about. I would however be in control of my duaghter. She is my duagher afterall. I am the one ultimely raising her. Yes her father would have a say so, and if bs was reasonable and respectful towards my daughter I'd take her imput too. I have always put my kids feelings first. Also to let you know about the part I said that I could not abort or put her up for adoption, that seems to be the answer for almost every mm and there bs. Especially when one has kids and are at a certain age etc., you make decisions that suit your family and all. Maybe it's not fair that the mm has no say so. That is just the way it is. It's a living life, not a dog or cat or doll for that matter. The fact is the mm had a part in it. Plain and simple. The only reason it's not fair to the mm and his wife is because it will affect them TOO for the rest of there lives. Lets face it, it affects everyone. And yes it was a huge thing in everyone's life. I can't say that one person really wins from this. I see the married couple making choices that is best for there family so I can ask you Lynn, why is so bad that the ow is wrong from making choices for her family? Maybe it's very unfair to the wife and there kids that he has to pay cs, but again I can ask you why it's so unfair for the ow to ask for cs? She is not asking for her......she's not asking for alaminoy she is asking for cs for that child whom mm help create regardless of who wanted that child. I know in my situtaion I was done having kids. I had the beginning and the end in one swoop with my twins. I had one year left with daycare expenses and I was done. I had started a new career and actually was breaking it off with mm. I had just told him 3 days before I found out I was pregnant that I could not do this anymore. I had to move on and have a real reltionship with someone who was not taken. Or sitting on the fence. He was like you have a date planned to dump me don't you. He had told me several times in the past he would never dump me, I'd have to be the one to do it. Well, as soon as he found out I was pregnant and he had no control over it, he dumped me. Plain and simple. Yes it hurt, but it was the best thing that ever happened to me. For the record, I feel the affair was a huge mistake but my daughter is not. There is a reson for her being here. No children are a mistake. And no I don't think God wanted me to get pregnant for xmm to leave his marriage and come to me. I knew when I saw the two lines it was over and he would freak out when I told him. I don't think God wants him to treat his daughter as he has, but that is not for me deal with only him. So I am asking you Lynn to please not twist my words that I write, and see what I write before you reply and say I wrote something I did not.

Mary,

Without getting into this thing between you and Lynn---why are you posting on this site? You're not in a marriage, and you're not using MB techniques to further your marriage. You're not focused on MB methodology.

That's supposed to be what these privately-supported boards are about.

<small>[ August 12, 2004, 01:02 PM: Message edited by: K ]</small>

K, you just basically did. We allow bs and such on our site and don't ask them that unless they are being disrepctfull. This is between Lynn and I and probally because you did not like what I said to her your asking???? I'm sorry if I have invaded you in anyway.

M

I'm curious why you are taking Lynn personally?

Lynn's opinion is about Lynn - not you. I find it interesting you feel so strongly a need to defend Lynn's OW POV. Why is that?

Mary,

I've been here for six years. I have counseled with the Harleys, and one of the reasons that I stay (semi) active on these boards is to give back to the community.

Having stated that, my question to you would be why you are here? I don't care what TOW "allows" on their site. This site's primary focus is about working on marriages using the MB techniques. I do get bothered when I see posters who aren't doing it. I have issues when BS's here go on a giant "bit*h fest"---because it's typically not productive to healing a marriage.

But you don't have a marriage to heal. You don't seem to be actively working towards helping other's heal their marriages. When people dilute the goodness of these boards with off-topic chatter, trolling, bickering---it pisses me off. Out of respect to the Harley's and MarriageBuilders---I'd ask that you not continue posting until you feel that you can offer constructive, marriage-building advice.

Blah Blah Blah

Lynn is entitled to her opinion on this board. This site is for marriage building, she did what was necessary to rebuild her M. I love the way she stands up for herself. Not all W's lay down and take crap from another woman who is attempting to derail her life.

So sorry if all did not go according to your big plan, which is obviously what has you so sore. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

NTMO-

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Having stated that, my question to you would be why you are here? I don't care what TOW "allows" on their site. This site's primary focus is about working on marriages using the MB techniques. I do get bothered when I see posters who aren't doing it. I have issues when BS's here go on a giant "bit*h fest"---because it's typically not productive to healing a marriage.

But you don't have a marriage to heal. You don't seem to be actively working towards helping other's heal their marriages. When people dilute the goodness of these boards with off-topic chatter, trolling, bickering---it pisses me off. Out of respect to the Harley's and MarriageBuilders---I'd ask that you not continue posting until you feel that you can offer constructive, marriage-building advice. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I have to agree w/ K, & I have often wondered why you post here also. What do you really offer that is constructive to helping a BW deal with this situation in her M? The OW's POV? If you were still M & were trying to work on your M I could understand but you aren't so what is your purpose?

I am not trying to be mean, but with all the pain on this board I really don't need to hear from an OW crying about how she has been wronged or what she thinks is best for OC. YOU & that BW's H were wrong. My H & OW were wrong, do you think I want to hear her whine about CS, she is getting it as she should for her child, if any of HER other plans didn't work out it is not my fault or any BW's fault.

Do you post here to cause pain to BW's cuz some do on TOW? If so does that make you feel better?
This is supposed to be a place to heal & help others in a like experience, if you can't contribute to that I think you should do as K asks.

I have been lurking at MB for a very long time and have always had great respect for K's interventions. But, this time, I am not sure why he is interfering in this thread and, more than that, I don't understand why he is asking someone who is presenting a perfectly valid point of view to stop posting.

I am a BS and I fully agree with needtomoveon. Are you going to ask me to leave too? LynnG has her point of view and she is entitled to it. But, I think every one of you knows she goes a bit farther than that.

She makes accusations against others, she is disrespectful of others, and she has an enormous capacity to hurt other people, particularly those that are new to the hurt and pain. I don't think these are MB philosophies.

Some of the posters here have been posting for many years and they have not moved forward one bit in their healing or forgiving their partners.

K - correct me if I am wrong - I thought the most important agreements were between the WS and the BS? If someone wants to try contact and needs support why should they be told that no contact is the best way to go? Why should they be made to feel that they are some type of pushover or idiot if they want to reach an agreement with their H and not give him ultimatums?

When you have people in such a vulnerable and hurting state -- it is not fair to make them believe that there is only one way to handle this situation.

I have contact with the OC and it has worked. I have also forgiven my H -- true forgiveness -- where I don't need to bash the ex-OW or to LB my H to satisfy my ego. My life is better than it was before, communication is better and more open, and my marriage is better -- and the OC is included.

If some people start throwing down ultimatums, I can tell you what will happen -- some people will lose good marriages and some wayward spouses may end up being violent. Is that what people really want when they come to MarriageBuilders? To learn how to give an ultimatum and say "I will not negotiate - it's my way or the highway?"

If you want to censure people for not using MB principles, then at least be fair and censure everyone. I, for one, have learned a lot from the OW who post here and I don't see any reason for them to leave.

People who are afraid of their words should not respond just the way you tell them to ignore LynnG. I am not trying to offend anyone but I think that this board should be consistent and not just pick those they like, excuse everything they do and then pick on others because they are considered OWs.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

Originally posted by needtomoveon:
So I am asking you Lynn to please not twist my words that I write, and see what I write before you reply and say I wrote something I did not.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">For the record... I (not Lynn) reported your posts yesterday because of name-calling (which was edited out by Justuss)....

Are you using this site to improve your marriage?

Pep

BabyGirl93,

I just saw your post and wanted to add that I have gotten enormous insight into what went wrong in my marriage by hearing what OWs have to say.
That, for me, was the first step to healing.

I agree with you that, in the beginning, the hurt and pain is unbearable and you don't want to understand anything except your own pain. But, that is a very short stage that, if true healing is taking place, changes to a desire to understand what went wrong and, more than that, to prevent it from happening again.

A post on another thread, Entwife, asked the question why can't we all get along on MB? The sad fact is we were all betrayed in some way or another. Some OWs did not know the man was married. And, others knew but the MM was telling them a pack of lies like mine did. (No love in the marriage, blah, blah, blah).

Why is everyone so ready to label all OWs as deliberate home wreckers and not look at the role they may have played in the breakdown of communication in our marriages. That is the root of the problem -- learning how to express our needs and learning how to meet each other's needs.

Those who are new to the pain and don't feel able to cope with hearing what OWs have to say should simply not read it. I just think it is a bit over the top to ask people not to post because you don't like their message.

I would find it a shame if this station only played one record all the time.

Happy 2004:

You entirely missed the point this is MARRIAGEBUILDERs and needtomoveon is not MARRIED>
It has nothing to do with agreeing or not agreeing with anyone. TOW has a board so what possible reason could she have for posting here?

Hi KalGal,

I imagine she posts here for the same reason I read TOW and read her posts -- i feel you can't understand the big picture until you understand both sides.

When I am making decisions as big as the ones in my marriage, i want to do so with as much information as possible. So, I want to understand what is going on in the OW's head and this is the closest I can come without talking to my H's OW. Now, THAT, would be a painful experience because then it would be a description of actual events.

This way, I feel I can learn with generic input that is not so personal. I am sure that OWs also learn a bit about the MM and what he is going through by speaking with BSs.

There are other people on here who are not currently married and are trying to reunite with their divorced spouses. There are also people writing on here who don't have OCs. I have been reading a verrrrry long time...

****EDITED*******

And for everyone posting on this board using MB principles....I would venture to bet that at least half of the posts never even MENTION MB!\

ent

<small>[ August 12, 2004, 04:16 PM: Message edited by: Justuss ]</small>

But, I think every one of you knows she goes a bit farther than that.

I disagree with you . So I guess "every one of you" does not apply. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

She makes accusations against others, she is disrespectful of others, and she has an enormous capacity to hurt other people, particularly those that are new to the hurt and pain. I don't think these are MB philosophies.

Needtomoveon was edited for disrespectful name calling. Lynn was not.

Some of the posters here have been posting for many years and they have not moved forward one bit in their healing or forgiving their partners.

This is your 2nd post... WELCOME TO MB!

K - correct me if I am wrong - I thought the most important agreements were between the WS and the BS? If someone wants to try contact and needs support why should they be told that no contact is the best way to go?

Because it is a OPINION! And why not express an opinion?

Why should they be made to feel that they are some type of pushover or idiot if they want to reach an agreement with their H and not give him ultimatums?

No one can "make" anyone feel like an idiot without their permission. Particularrly on a message board.

When you have people in such a vulnerable and hurting state -- it is not fair to make them believe that there is only one way to handle this situation.

It is an opinion.

I have contact with the OC and it has worked. I have also forgiven my H -- true forgiveness -- where I don't need to bash the ex-OW or to LB my H to satisfy my ego. My life is better than it was before, communication is better and more open, and my marriage is better -- and the OC is included.

Good for you and good for your family! Congratulations!

If some people start throwing down ultimatums, I can tell you what will happen -- some people will lose good marriages and some wayward spouses may end up being violent. Is that what people really want when they come to MarriageBuilders? To learn how to give an ultimatum and say "I will not negotiate - it's my way or the highway?"

Actually, MB advises POJA. Do you know what that is?

Policy of joint agreement. Look it up.

But, sometimes "ultimatums" are given a bad rap. I like to think of "firm boundaries" as my bottom line. I have certain things that I cannot allow into my life for the sake of my sanity or safety... and they are NOT allowed. So, ultimatum and clear bottom line boundary might be confused in your mind. Are they?


If you want to censure people for not using MB principles, then at least be fair and censure everyone. I, for one, have learned a lot from the OW who post here and I don't see any reason for them to leave.

Marriage builders has a different goal than TOW. I suppose that is the difference.

People who are afraid of their words should not respond just the way you tell them to ignore LynnG. I am not trying to offend anyone but I think that this board should be consistent and not just pick those they like, excuse everything they do and then pick on others because they are considered OWs.

You think "this board" should be consistant with all 2 of your posts so far?

Again.... WELCOME.

Pep <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

<small>[ August 12, 2004, 04:08 PM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>

Hmmmm,,

HappyAgain2004 registered today Aug 12th and 3 posts all supporting the OW. Hmmmmmm <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

"Those who are new to the pain and don't feel able to cope with hearing what OWs have to say should simply not read it."

No, I'm sorry. This is a Marriage Builders Support Site!! meant to provide support and encouragement for those attempting to rebuilding and repair their marriage. OW have their own board where they are free to post anything they choose. This is not the place!

I must admit Pepperband, you do have a way of damning with faint praise. If that makes you happy -- I am happy for you.

Thanks for the welcome, although it is obvious you did not mean it... (I can hear you now -- oh gawd, this happy person, who the hell is she and why does she want to hear anything an OW has to say...)

Just speaking my mind, not trying to hurt anyone, sorry you could not respond in kind.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

Originally posted by HappyAgain2004:
I just saw your post and wanted to add that I have gotten enormous insight into what went wrong in my marriage by hearing what OWs have to say.

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">OWs know the intimate details of your marriage?

Really? How is that? What went wrong with your marriage that OWs give you so much insight about?

Even my neighbors and closest friends do not know the intimate details of my marriage.
Interesting for you that strangers know what went wrong with your intimate relationship.

Curious how this worked out for you ... care to share?

Pep <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

Nerlycrzy - check your facts. I did not post to support OWs since my initial post was to offer support and share my experiences with a BS.

I guess since I'm new, the sharks smell fresh meat. Go ahead tear away. As I said, I am not here to hurt anybody, just expressing my own point of view.

You claim everyone is entitled to that.

Happy the only place where there are unmarried people is on Divorcing or the PreMarriage forum.
What possible information could NTMO get from his forum which is for MARRIED individuals dealing with OC.

Isn't it amazing how you decide to register today of all days and isn't it an amazing coincedence that you just happen to agree with an OW. I just noticed that Nerlycrazy noticed the same thing LOL Either a troll or she was the OW in her H first marriage that would explain her support for the OW

<small>[ August 12, 2004, 04:25 PM: Message edited by: KalGal ]</small>

]Originally posted by HappyAgain2004:
I must admit Pepperband, you do have a way of damning with faint praise. If that makes you happy -- I am happy for you.

Thank you for being happy for me.

I am sincerely offering congratulations for recovery after an affair within your marriage. No small fete.

Thanks for the welcome, although it is obvious you did not mean it...

It is obvious you do not know my mind then <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

WELCOME to MB

(I can hear you now -- oh gawd, this happy person, who the hell is she and why does she want to hear anything an OW has to say...)

OW is not an intimate partner of my marriage. I am not interested in her opinion about my intimacy ... unless OW and I are both talking about our OWN marriages... then I am.


Just speaking my mind, not trying to hurt anyone, sorry you could not respond in kind.

Me too! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Pep <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />