This is a hard question to word the way I want it to come out, so I apologize beforehand if I don't express myself exactly the way I mean to.

My question is in regard to a first visit. I am in a situation right now where a first visit may or may not occur soon, and my child is a toddler.

I have read here, and understand, the BW position that contact should include both parties in the marriage. I don't disagree with that. However I feel strongly that in my case, I would like this first visit to occur only between my child and the father. I have no problem with his W attending any and all future visits, but I really feel strongly about this first one. The reason has NOTHING to do with her personally, none whatsoever. I have suggested to my lawyer a VERY public place, in part to ease any uneasiness she may have about he and I ever being alone (which is just about the last thing on the planet I would ever want...)

So anyway, I feel this will be a MAJOR adjustment for my child, and while the "rest" of his fathers family should also be included, at least at first I'd feel better if the initial meeting (even though bonding can't occur in one meeting) be between just the two of them.

While I respect and recognize his Ws role in this, it is still essentially he and I who must be able to parent this child. If we can't even be in the middle of a public place together, I have serious doubts that a healthy parenting situation can be achieved.

Anyway, I'm rambling....
I guess it comes down to this:
If the mother of your child was ABSOLUTELY no threat whatsoever to your marriage, would you feel comfortable with a first visit occuring as I have described?

Sorry, dont agree w. you. I AM A PARENT, I may be a step, but I am a parent. You and every other OW on this site might not agree. but frankly I'm tired of the Bull crap on meeting the father blah blah. OK you don't want me to be around your child you shouldn't have slept w/ MY H and got pg. Sorry cut and dry. Sin is punished no matter how or when. this may be the punnishment you receive you have to "share" a child w. another woman you has chosen to be a part of their lives. She didn't ask to be in your child life, but yes she made the choice! And might add, NEVER have I heard of a child abuse case where the BS hurt the OC! My post is not one of hate, but one of get over it! You have a child w/ a man and his wife! So now there is three. And yes, I think everyone can and does get along at times and yes people have to be flexable. Yes I don't see the Ow just handing her child over to a person BS that she doesn't know. Public place is good, and friends home, with everyone involved. But I don't think at any time the BS should be excluded from a child she wishes to have a relationship with. And beleive me she was there when that was conceived. You thought about her and so did the H! Oh and my H helped raise a step child for 13 years and never once did I tell him, you don't matter, what you think doesn't matter, and no you can't be around my child cause XH had a problem w/it. If the bs is soooo bad, get an attorney and prove it! Other than that, sorry you shouldn't have slept w/ a M man. Don't know your story, don't know if you knew, but should have checked or at least knew more about the man you chose to sleep with. This is no direct dealings w/ you. I know your concerns being a mom, but please see mine as being a step mom I never asked to be and someone want to exclude me from this child if me and H are willing to take into our home and love as ours!
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> Sunny D

Seeing that this meeting would be in a public place, I would suggest that you absolutely want to invite the W to the meeting. There's no reason not to.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">While I respect and recognize his Ws role in this, it is still essentially he and I who must be able to parent this child. If we can't even be in the middle of a public place together, I have serious doubts that a healthy parenting situation can be achieved.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It is essential that his wife and he be on the same page with regards to their role in this. If you have some issues with this in terms of not knowing if the three of you can meet and behave yourselves---maybe you should all meet and discuss the initial meeting event together, to take that edge off first.

The way you present it here, you will come off very manipulative to his wife. And this is coming from a guy with no real clue as to how women work---so my guess is your scenario would not be the best way to handle it.

Whoa Whoa Whoa!! Sunny!!

I didn't say I want to exclude her..re-read my post! And by no means do I think for even a second that she would mistreat my child in any way!

I just think that it might be overwhelming for my child...that's all. It's a lot at once. Yes, children adapt, and mine would too, if put in this situation, but my child is in that phase where he is aware of the world around him but not totally able to articualte his feelings on it, so I may seem a bit protective...

I asked for opinions, and yours is duly noted. Thank you.

If your child is under a year of age, he will probably either:

1. Mistrust all strangers
2. Love everyone

You're not going to do any damage whatsoever to an infant or toddler by including the wife here.

But you got a BW's reaction (in Sunny's)---so I think you had better adjust your plans to include the BW from the beginning.

There is no point whatsoever that the wife can't be there. If they are going to allow the oc into their lives, it is THEIR FAMILY that is accpeting. And the truth is, this oc has been discussed, all sides of the issue. I know it is a popular ow theme to think that the wife is demanding none, and the husband is begging for contact. I can assure you, it isn't like that. They have discussed pros and cons, and what the contact will do to their lives, their family and their future.

Asking to meet, alone, is one of the "drama's" that we, as BW refer to. Sort of personifies the desperate OW, wanting to play house, etc. They have been warned by friends, laywers, etc of the games the OW play. It is not BW insecurity of you, it is that they don't want the drama fest that is well documented on these very pages.

I can guarantee you she is not going to harm the oc, (another drama). Even considering that is another red flag for them. They are starting to see the hassles of dealing with you, rethinking the whole contact issue. And the list can go on and on.

That type of behavior is why so many peopele dont
have contact. It is directly relatedto the behavior of the ow. It isn't fear, or insecurity, it is the drama and the upheaval. It just isn't worth it.

I can see where it would be threatening to an ow to hand over a her child to the BW. Afterall, they are a family, a family that your child would be a part of, that you will not be. That would be hard. Afterall, we are all women. Remember that THAT women did not create this mess, this is the end result of the affair. So, while you are worried about your child, sadly that is part of the world you and he created for oc. Certainly not the fault of the BW.

Drop the drama and they hysterics and let them see the child. The drama antics will start a battle and read here what can happen. Contact abrupty stopped to protect the nuclear family. Guess who gets hurt? The children.

"If the mother of your child was ABSOLUTELY no threat whatsoever to your marriage, would you feel comfortable with a first visit occuring as I have described? "

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I think it would depend on any previous contact between BW and OW. If there have been hateful things said between them, it might not be a good idea. Of course, I am only going on my experience so far.
If things have been "adult" up to that point, then the BW might be more receptive to the first encounter.
But I understand your position on the todder issue. They are different from an infant. It might be overwhelming for them.
Why not see if BW would stay in the background so she could observe? I would have done that. But my OW specifically requested I not be there. But of course, I know how she still feels towards H.
Hope that helped...
ent

ps Sunny...you ok today? Yo

<small>[ August 16, 2004, 04:35 PM: Message edited by: Entwife ]</small>

It is all about the drama...

When I first discovered about the OC, I was quite devastated. I wasn't sure if I would stay in the marriage. So we both decided to work on the marriage together before having contact. A solid foundation was necessary if we were to begin this journey. There were so many other things happening in our lives. I was also helping my brother raise his two children after the mom abandoned them. CRAZY was not the word in what was happening in my life.

Anyhow when we were ready he called her and asked if we could bring the baby an Easter basket. She agreed! We were excited!

Immediately I fell in love with her on that first visit. She responded to me right away. Reaching out for me to hold her. OW did not look pleased. I understood her pain. The next visit we all agreed would be at a park.

The visits after that were painful. She would hover over my husband never letting him have a moment alone with the baby. Went as far as answering every question he asked the baby. At first I thought it was because I was there so I pulled back, nothing changed.

After the second visit where we had an awesome time with the baby, and she was responding well to my husband, she went nuts. She screamed about him trying to be father of the year. It was bizzare. He was being kind and loving. We have children so it came natural to him. She totally lost it to the point that she let the baby down and we had to calm her down. Hubby had to make a run for the baby for fear of her getting hurt by the swings. I held the baby. I begged her not to do this in front of the baby. Lets find a time to talk like adults, she wouldnt listen.

As the visits went on she continued her little digs here and there. At one visit she had her friend and her children come. Of course the baby wasnt focused on my husband she wanted to play with the kids.

Visits were going down hill fast. And we were controlled by her. When ever her scheduled allowed for husband to see the baby. I held back from telling her off so many times because of the baby.

Finally she didnt want me there anymore. She threatened that if I was there at the park she would walk away. I felt awful. Perhaps she was reacting that way because of my presence. I told my hubby that I wouldnt go, that he should go and be with his baby. He pleaded that he needed me there, I was his rock. And he needed to know that I was standing by him. OW would not hear it. Finally he said I want to see my daughter my wife will stay in the car. She agreed and so it went.

Folks it had nothing to do with me. As soon as he walked into that park. She bashed and bashed. Threatened about everything and anything. He was in shock. He realized that she was just going to make things as difficult as they can be no matter what...When he finally said I cant do this with you here anymore. You cant control these visits anymore. She became livid. Threatening that her lawyer was in the park (Yeah OK on a sunday afternoon) watching his every move. He was there for 40 minutes and all he got was bashing. All he wanted was to have a visit with his daughter. As he walked away, she immediately started yelling, Oh your walking away from your daughters life! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

He realized that this was not going to work. He needed visits with his daughter on a regular basis. And he needed them without OW intervening with the bonding process.

She doesnt want the baby to visit without her. Saying that she doesnt know us. How on earth can she bond and get to know him if she interferes with that? The baby will be fine. She will learn to trust and to bond by how he soothes her. That is how life works.

So now the courts will come into play. There is no way I will have my children around OW for fear of an outburst. They dont know about any of this drama. I refuse for them to witness any of that. We are tired of her drama. And you're right this kind of drama is what pushes many people into NC.

We will try till the end to do right by this baby. She deserves to get to know us and receive all the love that we have to offer her.

SO MeNtheboyz, consider what I have said here. Please don't do this to your child. In the end he will suffer.

This is a hard situation. You state you have no fear of the BW, then why not have her at the visits right from the begining?? I do understand that you want to make things easier for your child, but this is a screwed up situation to beging with.

Is the father initiating contact?

When my H was first able to see his son, he went to Xow place by himself. At that time I was so stressed out and out of it I didn't care. I know realize if I was smart I would have demanded to be there. I also know that the courts will sometime start out visits where the father can only be there.

I honestly believe your best bet is letting the W be there for the visit. Make the first kind gesture in this awful situation.

Prayers are with you

ME& boys. I didn't mean it directly towards you. You asked I gave my honest veiws. I know you are concerned about your child. I would be too. Just like if I got a D and the OW was w/ H and she would be seeing MY child every other weekend? Ok now this woman has tried to run me down in her car. H has told me should would love to kick my butt or kill me? Ok now do I let my child go? On the other hand, Yes I was mad at her at one point, yes don't like what she did to my family, but there is a thing called Jesus and I have dealt w/ my issues! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> But she hasn't. All of the brew ha over its "our" child and not yours, maybe true. I didn't conceive it, I didn't carry it. But not for one minute did I want something to happen to this child. Not for one minute of every day have I not thought about it! I have prayed for it and her and only want the best for all involved. (Just talking to the OW in general, keep in mind)Have you talked to the woman that will be your childs step mom? have you even thought to ask her? Cause I can tell you one thing, men don't face alot of stuff! Read the stories. I'm sorry if I sound short, but look at what you asked to do? And you read and post here often. What did you think you would get? I hope she is someone like me and the others that so want the contact to work. If she is you will be blessed! But you never talked to her and you don't know her. And you need to. She is "stuck" with making her M work making the contact work and also caring for her family along with the forgiving of a person she doesn't even know? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />
And if she doesn't want contact, then I would tell you to run like hell, myself! I wouldn't ask anyone to put their child in a place they where not wanted or cared for. Oh and even w/ all the crap the ow has pulled, I would let my child see her. Cause its not my D she has a problem w/ it me. And she will have to deal w/ that on her own. I thought about all of this today and what would you do if you had c and WS died? Would c continue? Or would the step mom ans siblings go forever w/o seeing them again? (don't want to change the thread but would you? )
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> Sunny D
Delighted to be here today! Really I am.
Delighted that he gives me life and love and hope
Delighted that we can all play nice
Delighted that God loves me and yes I am not perfect and yes I have alittle PMS going on <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

M&TBs~

It sounds as if your child has never met the father? Why put your child through a couple different introductions to his family when he can meet his father and step-mom all at once? It could be tense enough as is, why do it twice? True enough, it will be you and him making the "important" child rearing decisions, but she WILL be a vital part of your child's life if C proceeds. Why not start that C out on a positive note?

Besides, this is your first real opportunity to show the BW you mean no harm. Please don't squander your chance to show the BW a lot of goodwill. I understand you want your little one to be as comfortable as possible, but I believe there is one other person who also needs to be comfortable in this situation, (and it isn't you or MM), it's the BW. Step in her shoes for one moment...if you were her, how comfortable would you be, if you were left at home on your H's first p/u of OC alone w/ ow, no matter how public the setting?

I think you need to re-examine your motivations.

If you do this right, then not only will your son be fine, but you will have also saved everyone a lot of heartache.

~ad

speaking as a BW I agree with LynnG and Sunny,
It would be very helpful to the entire situaton to let BW be there,in the long run the benifits would by far outway anyhing else, that's how I feel.

mentheboyz,,,,,,, i must disagree with you when you said " it is still essentially he and I who must be able to parent this child. "

you see it is notand mm who need to raise this child but instead it you, mm AND HIS WIFE.

that seems to be the one thing that many ow, and om forget when these situations arise. they chose to have an A with a married person. THEREFORE if that married person stays in his marriage and chooses visitation then his WIFE or her HUSBAND will and should be an intregal part of any relationship formed between the parent and child.

at your childs age it may even be beneficial to have his w there. your c has most likely had limited contact with the male gender so she may help calm him/her down should he/she cry at the presence of a hew person.

and i beleave i understand the reason that you want the 2 of you only at the 1st meeting. it is probably due to your own insecurity about the situation. very understandable from any mom.

I disagree w/ excluding the W ---EVER.

M&TB:I Pm'd you.

just for the record: Th epoint I made whihc the poster below me is referring too but I edited out to PM was:

Children meet new people all the time. They are invited to a b-day party & there are boudn to be some strangers there but who ever asks everyone to leave so that they can meet each stranger by themselves so as 'not to be overwhelmed'?

Or the many children in daycare centers? Has any parent EVER asked the daycare to close for one day so that ONLY thier child can meet the staff, on @ a time & not be overwhelmed by all the other staff and kids there?

Of course not!

<small>[ August 17, 2004, 04:52 PM: Message edited by: ktbunch ]</small>

I honestly believe that this has nothing to do with the C, but everything to do with OW's grief & shame...she doesn't want to face the BW. She probably also wants to savor the moment of MM meeting child for the first time without the interference of BW. I agree with KTBunch, and her examples of other scenarios of your child meeting complete strangers at B-Day Parties, etc. I don't mean to sound harsh, and yes we all make mistakes, but M&Boyz you put yourself in this situation. You now have the luxury of dealing with MM and BW. Sorry, BW didn't choose you, you chose her...and her husband...believe it or not. You may as well meet her now, and get it over with, because she is going to be a part of you & your child's life now...unless she chooses not to be. Surely you can face this.

You now have the luxury of dealing with MM and BW. Sorry, BW didn't choose you, you chose her...and her husband...believe it or not. You may as well meet her now, and get it over with, because she is going to be a part of you & your child's life now...unless she chooses not to be. Surely you can face this.
*************************************************

Precisely...

We are thrusted into an extremely difficult situation and when finally we have accepted it and are willing to step forward and do the right thing, we are made to feel insignificant.

As a wife and a mother I am so essential to this family in every way. How the OW thinks that I will not be essential in the OCs life is mind boggling.

It saddens me that they decide to bring forth a child in this world already in a compromised situation but do not think ahead of the game. The "What If's"...Perhaps it is that most think the marriage will end and the W would be out of the picture. Do they even think about the children in the marriage? How they will be affected?

Thinking back that wouldve been such an easy way out for me and my children. I wouldn't have had to deal with all this added stress and drama. But my marriage was worth it. How many of you struggled with this situation? It was a huge internal battle for me. I knew that if I were to stay this is what I would have to deal with and Im dealing. By the grace of God I am.

Why couldnt they think ahead? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

As I mentioned earlier, I did ask for opinions, and whether or not I agree with all that has been written, I sincerely appreciate those who took the time to respond to me.

meNtheboyz….My opinion on this subject is this…

Should an OW want her MM to have contact with their child she must include the BW from the beginning of contact.

Why? Because the OW and MM want to raise their child together and the W is a part of the MM. Plain and simple.
The BW is definitely going to have her guard up for a while and if the OW excludes her at the beginning of contact it will only serve to continue to build on the distrust she has for the OW. Basically, it says to the BW that there are ulterior motives on the part of the OW.

My suggestion to you is to include her from the start. Make every effort to make her comfortable in this situation. When you can prove to her that you have no other motive then for your child to know his/her father then she will more than likely be more comfortable with the whole situation.

The OW in my situation didn’t want me involved at all. The Courts and the GAL told her that she brought it on herself by getting involved with a married man. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> To have the referee and the GAL tell her that was a shock! But I believe they wanted to shock her into reality because she DID have ulterior motives when it came to contact. Her main complaint was the H no longer called her. That is when the GAL bluntly said, “Get over it. It’s not going to happen. He isn’t leaving his wife for you. You brought this on yourself, not its time to grow up.”

I commend you for wanting to make the BW comfortable. Start that way and I am sure she will be.

My advice to a BW that is going to have contact is to try to be there from the beginning. I think it helps the WH to feel more like she is on his side and that they are working as a team.

Stacia

I to believe that the BW must be included from the beginning. There is no reason to exclude her from this process. If a marriage is to survive something as devestating as this, it has to be united. Your statement of who will be parenting this child is not accurate in my opinion.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> While I respect and recognize his Ws role in this, it is still essentially he and I who must be able to parent this child. If we can't even be in the middle of a public place together, I have serious doubts that a healthy parenting situation can be achieved.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You and the MM will not be parenting this child. You will not be a family unit with this child. It will be you and your h / bf / significant other... whatever the case may be, and mm with his wife united together as a family. This should be encompassed from the beginning. As a mother I can fully understand the feelings of protection you have for your child, however, I am a BW who met the OC for the first time along with my H. I have adopted this child into my heart and home. I think that the maternal aspects a woman presents to this situation of a MM meeting their child for the first time is beneificial in easing the fear and tension in this situation not only for the child but also for the MM.

My feeling is that you should allow the MM and his wife to get to know this child without you being present. I'm not trying to be mean. I just feel that a child will cling to the familiar if it is available and not interact as much with the unfamiliar. They will sit on your lap, not venture to the MM's, constantly look to you for the okay to interact. To me that will be hindering to the relationship of the MM and this child more so than his wife being present.

Amen stillstrong! I agree ! You said it the best! </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You and the MM will not be parenting this child. You will not be a family unit w/ this child. ! Amen.
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> Sunny D