Tigger I am asking nicely to please read my post as I wrote it instead of how you are interputing what you think I would say as I'm as "X" ow. It has nothing to do with the oc...it's has to do with the mm or xmm feelings about it. Why would he be there for the ow? He's no longer in a relationship with her right???? It goes back to my post that the bw sees it this way and the ow sees it that way and they both have valid reasons that the other can't and won't see so why should there be contact in the first place.

Hi Lonely,

You need to talk to your husband and explain how much this hurts you. If your husband cares for you he will care if he hurts you. Tell him you need to get visitation legal. You need a lawyer. You don't have much money like me right. What if you buy a service where you pay a monthly fee to save money on lawyers. I have never tried it, but it is worth looking into. I think my relationship is a lost cause. Husband seems to not care about my feelings at all and keeps saying OW will not let me around her baby. I guess if he keeps bowing to OW then she can just have him. I told him she was fat and ugly. He defended her and said she wasn't. I guess it will be his loss.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">gardenbunny posted August 20, 2004 10:46 PM:

If the H goes to the hospital for the birth, he is going to support OW. The baby won't know the difference!


needtomoveon posted August 21, 2004 12:00 AM:

Maybe not today it won't...but if the husband is going to be in the oc's life there is no reason why he should not be there, nor is there any reason why his wife should not be there. Again maybe not in the room as emotions are flying, but close by. We were not talking about if the husband is not going to be in the child's life.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

Ok, so maybe I should have shown it as I now have above. Gardenbunny says that if the H is at the H it is not for the OC but to support the OW and that the OC won't even know he's there. You replied with what I took issue with! I don't have a problem with the couple being at the hospital together, and if the OW is so insistant on H being in the delivery room, she should expect the W to be there as well. If she won't accept that, well then she should go through the birth alone or with her OTHER support group.

As for taking issue with you being an "x" OW, well, I could technically be considered one as well as being the FWS and the FBS as well. I guess the only "shoes" I haven't worn are those of the WH/OM/OC. So, what I was saying had NOTHING to do with you being the xow, but with the statement made to gardenbunny about "Maybe not today it won't...." because ultimately, what matters most to kids is the time spent with their parents that they can remember. That was what I was getting at when I mentioned you having the twins with your xH and then having your D w/out the xMM there. The thing is, if the MM and his W are rebuilding their M, and the xOW wants the MM in the room with her, then she should expect the W to be there as well. In all 4 of my deliveries, not once did I think that my support "team" was there for the baby, but for myself!(first and second babies were with my mom there, H was there for the last 2) So, I stand by what I said previously and here as well, NEVER is the MM/xMM there for the OC support, as that child will NEVER know the difference if MM/xMM was in the delivery room or not, but the support is for the OW/xOW! If the MM/xMM is in the delivery room and he is rebuilding his M, then the OW/xOW SHOULD expect the BW to be there as well.

Now, as for how the xMM should handle this is obvious. If he wants to rebuild his M, he needs to work w/his W with the POJA as to where/who/when/how to handle the OC's birth, with the W included! Ultimately, I feel that the xMM should NOT be in the delivery room, NO MATTER WHAT, but they can come see the OC when he/she is in the nursery, with his W by his side. Of course, this is all between the W and the xMM, not the xMM and the xOW.

I have a little more thoughts on this topic, but I need to get my D off to school and pick up Sailorman from the muffler shop. But, again, I stand by what I said about the support side of it. Support at the time of delivery is for the woman giving birth, not the child.

Being at the hospital for the birth is not a problem IMO... being in the room with the OW for the delivery is a big problem. I have been at the birth for a number of my family members and I have been the supportive person in my sister in laws delivery.... as well as having 2 c-section deliveries of my own. There is a major difference in being present and being support. If he feels the need to be present at the birth, you can go with him Genia and be present as well, together... a family unit welcoming a new member. However if he is going as a supportive person for the delivery, it is for the OW and should not be done. Being involved in the childs life is okay, but supporting the OW is not. My dad was at the hospital for all of our births, but was not in the labor / delivery room. During that time it was not allowed. I am not scarred or warped by it... I don't even remember it. My H was with me for both c-sections... he did not support the baby, he bonded and supported me.. After the birth your H will be allowed to hold the baby and bond.... and include you. The OW needs to have someone with her to support her... not your H.

Hi Still Strong,

Thank you for your response. I have had four kids. Husbands were always with me and supported me and I know it is very emotional. They hold your hand when pains come and are really there to support you. My last birth, husband fell asleep because it was so long. My sister-in-law held my hand and supported me. She does need support, but I do not think husband needs to hold her hand but he just might. Or he might miss it entirely since he is in school. He did tell her he would try and make it though.

<small>[ August 25, 2004, 09:55 AM: Message edited by: Genia ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Genia:
<strong> Hi Still Strong,

Thank you for your response. I have had four kids. Husbands were always with me and supported me and I know it is very emotional. They hold your hand when pains come and are really there to support you. My last birth, husband fell asleep because it was so long. My sister-in-law held my hand and supported me. She does need support, but I do not think husband needs to hold her hand but he just might. Or he might miss it entirely since he is in school. He did tell her he would try and make it though. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">YOUR husband does not belong in the delivery room of a woman to whom he is not married ~unless~ he is the obstrician delivering the baby or he is the RN working the delivery room.

OW is not his wife. He is not her husband. This sort of contact between them (one of them naked and exposed) is way too personal and should not be a part of your marriage recovery.

I suggest to you Genia, that if your husband decides to attend the delivery after you have expressed your explicit wish he not do that ... your future wishes, desires, and needs will be met with an equal level of distain by your husband, and your needs will be disregarded by your husband many times over.

Your H will show you his commitment to your marriage if he makes your desires, your needs and your sensitivity to any situation dealing with OW and OC his highest priority.

If remaining in this second-priority position is comfortable and acceptable to you, your H will have no reason to put you into his # ONE priority position.

Pep

<small>[ August 25, 2004, 10:18 AM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>

Hi Pep,

Thanks for keeping it real. Maybe this should be the deal breaker, not the visitation issue. I feel you. You have made this very real to me. I was trying to ignore it, not think of it, saying to myself that this is just one event. That it would pass. I did not think of it in the light that it would cause him to disrespect me in the future.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I guess the only "shoes" I haven't worn are those of the WH/OM/OC. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Tig~

What about a BH? You haven't been one, but failed to mention it to me, have you? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

You know I can't pass up an opportunity to mess with you!

Hope nobody minds a little levity interjected.

Back to my little corner now.

Love ya!

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Thanks for keeping it real. Maybe this should be the deal breaker, not the visitation issue.

Sweets... the deal breaker (in my opinion) is the issue of disrespect.

Visitation is a ~topic~. That can be POJA'd.
Respect is an ~issue~.

I am not inclined to debate visitation. Focus on the bigger picture.

Are you getting a wife's due respect in this situation?

Pep

PEP,

I must agree with you on that note. ARE you getting the wife's due respect? I was definately not I was being treated like the OW - total disrespect! Do not fall into that trap. I think we all have come now to giving WH such concern and care during this situation until we are slighting ourselves and allowing a lot of mess to go on. Do not make that same mistake again.

The deal should be that there are no deals - either you do or you don't. Discuss the and handle the issues not the topics.

Issues fester and remain, Topics change!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

JT

Tigger I totally see your point. What I'm saying is what xmm/mm maybe thinking. You are absoulty right that the oc will never know or remember. This is probally a lame example but here goes. I have my kids in swimming lessons right now. I put them in the Ymca as they go to Kinder Camp there and it was easy as they were already there. When I don't have appointments I go watch and support etc. It's worked out that I have been able to leave work and we go watch them.....well I told the girls that I could not get out of my appointments on Monday and would not be there but would be there right after to pick them up........well one of the twins started crying and all through swimming lessons she was upset because I was not there. I go pick them up and the other twin says (as the one crying had already forgotten) hey she was crying today at swimming lessons so they tell me the story and I feel like total sh*t. I still do. I rearranged my schedule, and P*ssed my boss off to make sure I made those classes the rest of the week. She has forgotten it, but I HAVE NOT. I know it's a lame example but I'm tired and the best I can come up with right now. I am sorry about the statement I made about the "x" ow, but that is how I took your post. I know your story and the fact is you were able to restore your marriage and you were looking at your husband's feelings on the matter. I know you agree, but I think (hope) you understand that comment. I know me myself would not have his wife in the room. It's not about her......it's about my child. Again, I'm telling my thoughts as the OW/XOW. The only reason especially if the mm/ow are no longer having a relationship that would qualify him being in the room would be for his child. I stand by that. Not for the child's feelings but for his own. That is all I'm saying. And before you say I'm only thinking of myself, well maybe that is true.......but why would I want a woman in my room while I'm giving birth to a child or having a c-section that can't stand the ground I walk on? As far as there relationship......It's non of my business. He made his bed just as I did.........but if she is so uncaring of my feelings towards my giving birth, then why should I think twice about her feelings that her husband wants to see his child being born? Then again.........if I knew it was going to cause that much stress on my delivery why have either one there? Like I said before, it's about my child.......not him and not me. My child.

Pep,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Sweets... the deal breaker (in my opinion) is the issue of disrespect </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Funny you should say that. Last night, I told my husband. I am cherishing the moments with you because I do not know how long we will be together. He said maybe I should just pack my bags. I said, you don't have to, if you will just respect you will be OK in my book.

<small>[ August 26, 2004, 08:39 AM: Message edited by: Genia ]</small>

You know we could go on forever w/ this subject. I think it boils down to your M and how strong is it? What you decided as a team. Yes some people say they are not going to be there, and yes some don't for what ever reason. Hurt the W or comfort the ow. I may get totally blasted here but here goes. First don't like the idea of sleeping w/ a M man/woman, not my style, your choice. Staying M to a person who had, depends, how much does your family means to you, WHY are you staying, LOVE, MONEY, CONTROL, whatever. But you do have a choice. God gave us the will to hate and the will to forgive and the will to love. Weither you use it to the fullest is YOUR choice, and you will be judged for YOUR actions not H or the OW or BS, BW! OK maybe I have lost my mind, maybe I am comfortable in my M, maybe I put others before myself. Look up the word christian. What is it to you? No one else just you! Maybe I've just lost it. Yes I am human and yes I worry about H cheating again, but I will not live my life around it. Everyone knows there are many reasons why people have A and most not all involve a whole lot of problems in M or relationship. OK now we have thrown a children into this problem between adults. This child has your H blood running though its veins. What if (and I am big on those) but the baby comes out, takes a breath and dies? Why would you want your spouse to come back and say "you made me". Yes I cant make H do anything, but I can influence him to make the choice I want him to make. (If they truely love you and care and want to make you happy) I want him to choose what to do to complete him. If he goes into the room, that is his choice. Yes his. Will I be there, yes to support him and my family. Will I go into the room w/ her, NO. She doesn't need my support or comfort. But I'm beginning to finally after 15 years understand my H and myself. And I know him, when I had my child. Trust me he was there to see and hold that child! Yes he comforted me, but he wanted to see and hold what he had help create. I told him, he didn't ask, told me he would do what made me happy. I told him if it is something he felt that he needed to do, then I would not stop him or hold it against him. But that is me. I want to live my life w/ no-regrets, no chance of "what if's". Yes I do let the devil take over my brain, but he only gets to do it for awhile, before God takes back over,with praying and reading, and gets me back to where he wants me to be. But if H is in the room at delevery and it brings them closer, then so be it. It would have happened sooner or later anyway, so why not find out now. Thats my LONG 2 c. I'm not here to change anyones mind one way or the other, just my feelings on it. Don't ask for anyone to agree w/ me. Just another way to look at it and it all goes back to how strong is your M and how much confidence do you have in your relationship? And yes somedays are stronger than others, depending who you let control your brain!
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> Sunny D

Hi Sunny,

Thanks for putting that in perspective for me. I need to focus on how he treats me, whether he respects me. Whether he shows that I am #1 woman to him.

Genia,

I think that is a good idea. I think that you should look at how he is treating you and make your decisions based on that. He can say he loves you but how does he show it.

Always remember: LOVE is a verb (meaning it shows action); not a noun (a word)!

JT

Genia,

I agree w/ JT & all the others, if he is disrespecting you then you have to decide if this is the kind of M & life you want. That is a separate issue from the OC & visitation.

Also if he can keep you away from OW & OC, which it sounds like he wants to do, he will. In the meantime he is not working on your M & catering to needs of OW & OC???????

Not gonna work, you will be miserable, believe me I know.

Pray for guidance but don't continue to live like this for anyone's sake. Put yourself first!

Hang in there sweetie.

Originally posted by needtomoveon:
What I'm saying is what xmm/mm maybe thinking.

Don't care what someone is thinking. I DO care about marriage building ACTIONS taken, and recovery ACTIVITY after an affair has occured.

You are absoulty right that the oc will never know or remember.

This issue is MARRIAGE BUILDING ... not what OC knows or remembers.

I know me myself would not have his wife in the room.

What someone outside the marriage wants to happen is not an issue to MARRIAGE recovery and MARRIAGE building.

It's not about her......it's about my child.

And this site is about Marriage Building ... not about your child.

Again, I'm telling my thoughts as the OW/XOW.

Unless your thought are related to Marriage Recovery your thoughts are moot to someone's ability to recover a healthy marriage. You are of course welcome to express your opinion on any subject, however irrelevant to Marriage Building they are.

The only reason especially if the mm/ow are no longer having a relationship that would qualify him being in the room would be for his child.

If "being in the room" is a part of Marriage Recovery senario ... it is an issue to be POJA'd between the Married Couple, and any other person's opinion is moot.

I stand by that. Not for the child's feelings but for his own.

If you mean the husband's feelings, the man has a wife and if he is trying to recover his marriage , his wife's feelings take priority in this matter. No one else's feelings matter. they are married to each other.

That is all I'm saying. And before you say I'm only thinking of myself, well maybe that is true.......but why would I want a woman in my room while I'm giving birth to a child or having a c-section that can't stand the ground I walk on?

Why would you choose to do anything that you deem hurtful to yourself? No point to that, right?

Why would MM do anything he deems hurtful to his wife or choose to hurt his marriage further?

Man and wife ... a team approach! Sanctioned by God. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />


As far as there relationship......It's non of my business.

100% correct!

He made his bed just as I did.........but if she is so uncaring of my feelings towards my giving birth, then why should I think twice about her feelings that her husband wants to see his child being born?

It is none of your business all around. His feelings, her feelings, their couples problems are none of your business, and never were.

Then again.........if I knew it was going to cause that much stress on my delivery why have either one there? Like I said before, it's about my child.......not him and not me. My child.

That is exactly correct ... EXCEPT for one tiny detail ... it is HIS child too!

And making a baby with a married man invites his wife, her feelings, her decisons into your child's life. That is the result of deciding to go for "visitation". The OC now has a step mother, thanks to your decision to invite her into the child's life.

A married man has a wife. If the OC has visitation, the OC has another step-parent as well.

This site is all about MARRIAGE. The recovery and betterment of the marriage. All other issues are side-bar until the Marriage is back on track.

Pep

All I can say is AMEN - Pep!

Pep,

You always did get right to the point! I say AMEN too!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

JT