I talked to husband today and asked him to ask about paternity and also about rights for me for visitation. He asked, why I needed rights? Can you all help me answer his question. I welcome opinions of Betrayed wife, Other Woman, or Wayward Spouse. I would like to understand where he is coming from.

<small>[ August 23, 2004, 03:23 PM: Message edited by: Genia ]</small>

Hey Genia - I'm thinking of you girl! I can't believe your H would not expect you to be involved. Blows my mind. Does he expect to keep his two little families separate forever?

So what are you thinking now?

My H and I talked about OC some this weekend. He says if he doesn't contest paternity and goes straight to the prosecutor and claims OC, then it won't cost him so much in legal fees. Can you believe that??? He trusts OW's word that there couldn't possibly be any other father. I told him what I felt about it, but who knows? I think I would want to know for sure - I want to know 100% for sure and I am not the one paying the CS for the next 18 years.

Blows my mind.

Hang in there!! Keep the faith!

Hi KrisM,

Sorry I changed the name of my post to more appropriately address my concern. My husband has finally agreed to paternity because I talked to his family and they put pressure on him. However, he does not seem to want me to go with him to pickup his child saying that OW will not let him have unsupervised visitation if I am present with husband.

With out a doubt the answer to your question is yes! The BW is married to the father and is the step mom to that child, BW should definitely have the rights to bond and love that child also. The OC is a part of the H and therefore a member of the family. I fully understand why OW would not want the W involved from a mother's perspective. If my H were to D me and M OW, she would be in contact with my kids. That would just absolutely drive me crazy. However, OW made the choice to sleep with MM, no matter what they may have been told, our H's were still M. That changes the definition of family in this situation. If the H chooses to stay M to the W, then the OC now has 3 parents in my book. As long as all adults cooperate and get along, there is no reason why all three should not be involved. Just my opinion!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> The BW is married to the father and is the step mom to that child, BW should definitely have the rights to bond and love that child also. The OC is a part of the H and therefore a member of the family. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I want to second what Kris has stated. Plus if you have children of the marriage, I believe they have a right to know their sibling.

Hello Genia,

I think the H would rather not have you around because of his guilt...his uncomfortability ( is that a word..lol) in other words he would be un comfortable having you around OW & OC...because of his guilt & shame for having an A to begin with...he doesn't want to deal with your emotions, so he would rather exclude u....but he needs to understand that this is new to you, just like it is new to him & OW. You are his BW, and he needs to respect that, and include u...he has the nerve to want you to accept this situation he created, so he needs to acknowledge your feelings & concerns as well...he is letting OW call the shots again, by saying that she will not allow him visitation...blah, blah, blah...why does he keep falling for that. As I stated before, OW is not going to stop MM from seeing OC...that is what she wants...she is pulling his leg, and he is letting her. My opinion only, of course. Don't let him bully you in this...he does not have all the right answers all the time....like I said, this is new to him, just as it is new to you.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by KrisM:
<strong> Hey Genia - I'm thinking of you girl! I can't believe your H would not expect you to be involved. Blows my mind. Does he expect to keep his two little families separate forever?

So what are you thinking now?

My H and I talked about OC some this weekend. He says if he doesn't contest paternity and goes straight to the prosecutor and claims OC, then it won't cost him so much in legal fees. Can you believe that??? He trusts OW's word that there couldn't possibly be any other father. I told him what I felt about it, but who knows? I think I would want to know for sure - I want to know 100% for sure and I am not the one paying the CS for the next 18 years.

Blows my mind.

Hang in there!! Keep the faith! </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Sorry to threadjack....tell your husband that if he goes to court has the DNA test COURT ORDERED it is a fraction of the cost. It really is in the best interest of ALL involved. I can kindof see where he is saying what he is saying, but in the long run it is best. If he gets attached if DNA is determened she can't pull that child away....and if it's nothis.......well you know.

Genia, that childs has every right to know the siblings. You too for that matter if you are staying with him. You are apart of his family. She has a right to know her father's family. I kind of agree with Kriss that he is trying to keep you guys seperate. As well if he is getting his rights through an attorney or court order, unless you are "unfit", the ow can't keep the child away from the father's family. It can't happen. She can't force supervised visits at all. Only the Judge can do that. He is there from the beginning and I don't see a reason why she would have that. Maybe the first few weeks she will not want the child out and about though. I know I would not want my child away me when she was first born. I stayed home the first week and then the second week she went everywhere with me if I had to go. I did not want someone else to have her. My sister was staying with me too and I still her. It's just the mother thing. I know I will get blasted for this, but I can see her not wanting the child away from her the first month. I took my child to work with me (I started working again after 2 weeks with a c-section had large attorney bills to pay and was not receiveing cs yet). I don't know what your husband tells her or her personailty. I would think that your husband would be thinking about this before the child is born and discussing this with her and maybe getting the two of you meeting each other and all so both of you won't be feeling so uncomfortable. She will be harmonal and all too.......so I'm surprised if you and h are staying together that the plans and all have not been made with ow. jmho.

Hi Kris,

I really hope your husband will do an DNA test. I wonder if buying a DNA test is the cheapest way to go. I think the cheapest test I found on the internet was $175.00. That is still a lot of money for me. I may have to borrow the money. I looked on the internet at the standard visitation schedules judges usually write. For babies under 12 months it states visitation for 3 hours in home of child. How unrealistic is that. Can you see OW inviting BS in her home? I did read of one case on this forum. I somehow do not think my OW would invite me in her home. It does seem ironic that she won't bury the hatchet when she was the one who came in my home and stole my husband for sex. She took sex from me that I should have been haveing. Yet she does not want to share the child born from that sex with me. She took my joy and she does not want to share her joy with me. Since my tubes were tyed, I had offered to my husband to adopt a child but he wanted one of his own. I guess he got one of his own his own way, but in such a way that it seems I have no rights to share in the joy of this child. It seems so unfair. If I was expected to sit in the car outside while he visited with the baby inside her house, that would be too much torture for me and enough to end our relationship. I love my husband too much to allow her to get her fangs in him again.

Hi Gofigure,

I think the truth of the matter with him is he is scared of OW. She has the upper hand. He is now dealing with his ex on top of everything else. She just recently decided to sue him for child support. This child is 7 years old. She has not allowed him to see his child because she does not trust him around her child. See he was on drugs when he was with her. He was on drugs when we first got together. Husband has rehabilitated himself. He is not as bad as he was. He beat on her, but he does not beat on me. Now I think he fears if he does not do everything OW says he will not see this new baby either. I also think he wanted a baby sorta to replace the baby he lost. I remember when Husband and I first got together him crying over his son. He was talking to me about how ex won't let him see his son. He stated, I am going out of my mind.

<small>[ August 24, 2004, 08:04 AM: Message edited by: Genia ]</small>

wow, I'm so glad i was sent to this site. I two am victim of my Husbands affair .He's going to counseling, I need to but when I found out two weeks ago , it was a week after the baby was born. She called my H to the hospital (I knew nothing of the the affairat the time, it had been over for months)
My husband went, but did not see the baby as it has heart defect and one kidney that doens't function. Surprisinly he was sent home within 5 days. She has since called to tell him of future surgeries he must have. No paternity has been done but My H says he looked like our eldest son when he was born.

I think I should be part of visits . I don't think it should be anything about her. She made the choice to have this baby she wanted. Knowing my H was not leaving me or our 4 children.

I'm not heartless but if my H is worried about her being unconfortable well she and he made that choice. I have two older siblings that know about this and it;s not fair to them to have dad take on two seperate lives. Should we not treat this as a step=child??

LoriH

New member
Me 37
H 37
Married almost 15 years
Son 14
Daughter 11
Adopted Son 6
Adopted Daughter 5

Hi Lori,

I am so sorry to welcome you to this site. That had to be painful to find this out after the fact. I cannot beleive your husband hid this from you for so long. I think you should start your own thread and tell your story. Yes, you should be step-mom to this new baby. My husband is being stubborn and if he visits this new baby without me I will have to kick him out of my house. I own my house. Some WS fall trap to OW's threats to not let them see baby and want to visit in OW's home. Other women on this board have had this happen to them. I cannot and will not put up with that kind of disrespect. I fear my husband is about to try that on me. If he does, I will kick him out and OW can have him.

Genia,

normally I just lurk here and refrain from posting due to my "status" as the OW. However, I have read your posts and they struck a major nerve with me, and so I am going to offer up an opinion...with all respect.

I believe your husband is still trying to maintain 2 seperate lives, which in essence maintains the affair. Perhaps not physically but all the same, if he excludes you, then he is maintaining the secrecy. It soundslike he has not cut ties, the emotional ones. What I see in your posts is my xMM before it finally ended, months after the physical affair was over. He continued to try and please both of us, and to do that, he had to keep us seperate. I know it was hard on him, torn between his loyalty to his wife and his sense of responsibility to me, his pregnant exOW. The main difference I guess is that we had a three year relationship, and he thought he was still in love with me. I doubt that was the case in hindsight but he was torn nontheless. He inssited on being present at the birth, even though I thought it was a bad idea. He arranged to have visitation in my home, without his wife, etc. In the end, it all came crashing down around him and he had to finally chose, not just with words but actions.

If I put myself in your shoes, I would say you have to make him chose, have to make him back up with actions his choice to remain in your marriage. If he wants contact then you have to be included, in all decisions. Now, if I put myself in the OW shoes...and this isn't a stretch for me...then I would be terrified of the "joint" contact. Not because I want him back but because turning over your very young child to a woman whom you have seen as your advesary (right or wrong) is scary. What if she tries to hurt the child, not saying you would but these are the thoughts that go on...just being honest. It is my opinion that no contact is best, at least in the beginning, so that everyone has time to heal, deal with their overwhelming emotions. I was completely irrational during the pregnancy, but now a year later, I am beginning to see things in a different light. Contact still sacres me, but in my case it isn't in the cards anyway.

She doesn't hold the cards, nor does he...you have the power to effect change in your life. You can chose to live with his actions or not. Take a stand, make him back it up. I have a feeling you will be pleasantly surprised. Maybe he is waiting for you to force him into action because he is too afriad to do it himself. Men who cheat are classic non confrontational people, perhaps at this point he just isn't strong enough...be his strength.

Hi Twilight,

He insists on visitation. He says she would let him have the child for visitation, but not if I tag along in the car. If I came in the car, he would be forced to visit in her home. I have given her no reason to fear me. I met her. We hugged as two women who had been deceived. We said let him choose. Then she proceeded to see him behind my back after he chose me. I have always been nice on the phone when she calls my house and asks for my husband. What else can I do to gain her trust. My only stance would have to be to let him go if he insists on visitation in her home.

Genia,
I am so sorry that your going through this. I truly have the gut feeling that your husband cannot be selfish in this manner. It's only going to tear you apart. Boundaries and choices are going to have to be mapped out between you and your H. There can not be he(H) wins you lose or she(OW) wins you lose. As I see it YOU did not ask for him to have the affair or the baby. Your respecting HIS choice to be part of the childs life HE must respect YOU for accepting the outcome and making the best of it. It is not the childs fault. But, if she(OW) has to make all the demands it is not fair to you or your H or your children. Your H must make the choice to not have support other then finacially (if he really wants to be just with you), until she(OW) is ready to accept you and your children or it may be until the child is old enough to make his/her own choices.

Contact alone is only going to make you bitter, and is not healthy, also your children also should have right to know there half sibling.
She(OW) made the choice just as your H did to get involved with YOUR marriage. SO she (OW) must accept now the choice SHE made has concequences. It is not right for you to just accept all. YOU did not do this.

I only wish I could be strong enough to get this through to my H. I love him more then words can say and my faults are that I'm very forgiving. And out of fear of losing him , I can not set the boundaries as such becuase it is always the same (" well then were not going to make it Lori")

It's very painful, but my prayers are with you.

TWILIGHT,

Thank you for your insight as the OW. It was very hard for me to read your post as this is all fresh to me, but it was helpful. I feel angry, becuase I would never get involved with a married man. i view this as sacred and a drawn line. AS a young adult I was decieved once but when I was told (never having a physical relationship with this person) I stopped all contact. I drew that line even though my feeling I thought were strong at the time.
I do however RESPECT that you stepped away after he made the choice and are respecting him and his marriage. Someday maybe you will feel comfortable to let him AND her into your childs lives.

Lori

Genia,

I agree with Twilight. I commend her for her post. She said alot of things that some of us may have been thinking, but really didn't want to say. I agree that the secrecy, hiding, and exclusion can only mean that he is still involved emotionally and or physically. We can understand the emotional part...but he needs to redirect those emotions to your marriage, and your needs. I think someone else also said that there is no reason for the MM to be at the hospital for the birth of OC, because the OC will not remember this, only the OW, and it is for her support, and nothing more. That is soooo true. Yes, Genia, you have to have some kind of boundaries for him to stop his foolishness...we give them (H) and inch, and they take a mile.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Genia:
<strong> Hi Twilight,

He insists on visitation. He says she would let him have the child for visitation, but not if I tag along in the car. If I came in the car, he would be forced to visit in her home. I have given her no reason to fear me. I met her. We hugged as two women who had been deceived. We said let him choose. Then she proceeded to see him behind my back after he chose me. I have always been nice on the phone when she calls my house and asks for my husband. What else can I do to gain her trust. My only stance would have to be to let him go if he insists on visitation in her home. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Gina: You do have choices. You don't want to be a door mat. Although I agree with some of what Twlight said, I also disagree with her on a few mute points....but she is further along (her child is older and been through more at this point?) in her healing maybe? Anyway, the point is, it seems to me he wants to keep you guys seperate. I'm sorry you guys hugged as two woman that were deceived...that was just wrong for her to be two faced like that. If your husband goes to court.......he can have custody with you included. How old is the child? That will determine how much contact you will have at first. Once that child is in your home you will prove (not for her, but because of who you are) that you are not going to hurt that child. She may still have her head up her butt as far as your husband goes. YOU HAVE NO CLUE what he is telling her really. Or has told her. So don't put all the blame on her yet. Put some of this on your husband as he has the power to change the situation. Ya know us OW speak of the xmm being a coward when it comes to dday with the ow/oc. Well in this case he is also IMHO being a coward with you. He needs to give you a chance too. Do you guys have kids together? I can't remember. It is really hard to give up that child at such a young age. I took my daughter to work with me for a couple of months after I gave birth. I have totally revamped my scheduled at work to accomadate my twins and baby. I'm loosing a few hours of work and pay, but in the long run I feel better about my decision and I can dye my own hair etc. It's just hard to hand your child over. But it is done everyday. I also know that if my xmm wanted contact I'd be sharing with his family. No if's and's or butt's about it. In fact my attorney without asking me first had set up visiation with xmm's attorney. I was like WHAT??? Then I realized hey he won't do it, but she told me Mary he can see her 3 hours a week right now. If you want it in your home I'll arrange it. His wife won't be there either so you don't have to worry about the stress of her....no just the stress of him..... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> but if he would have taken it I would have to abide by it or I'd be in contemp of court. Once the child gets older than she was included in those visits. It's just the way it is. I hope you can talk some since into your husband. BTW......a few months ago a BW that we all know and uh know came over to TOW and told us all that the BW will bath the child when they get this child to clean her of the stink of ow......and a few other stories. So you can't just think it's ow on this. When a ow hears that kind of thing, well what could she think. It all takes time and trust. Which is too bad as I would much rather communicate with a woman than a man about my child. Although that once again takes the ressponsiblity off the father and onto someone else.

Hi NeedtoMoveON,

Thanks for your point of view. The baby has not been born. I am sure it will be soon. I love my husband and I know he loves me. He does not want to take it to court. He just wants me to go along. He wants to take the easy way. If I do not agree, then I guess he will just walk out of my life. We have no kids together. Obviously, I love him more than he loves me but time will tell.

Hi Lori,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I only wish I could be strong enough to get this through to my H. I love him more then words can say and my faults are that I'm very forgiving. And out of fear of losing him , I can not set the boundaries as such becuase it is always the same (" well then were not going to make it Lori")
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I feel you sweetie. I am much the same. I feel so much love for my husband even though he disrespects me. Most people have a breaking point. I watched the move,"[censored] out of Carolina". Opps edited. I had the title wrong. That woman loved her husband so much she gave up her daughter for her husband. Very few women would have done that I suppose.

<small>[ August 27, 2004, 08:05 AM: Message edited by: Genia ]</small>

Lori,

it isn't a question of me feeling comfortable, he wants nothing to do with his daughter. He was present at the birth, held her, put her back in the incubator (she was very sick), walked away and never came back. Refused medical information, three times...which would have saved her needless tests, etc. He has threatened me repeatedly, even though I never try and contact him unless he contacts me...which I have told him to stop doing. Recently, as I am sure a certain very bitter TOW poster will point out, I emailed him, knowing my addy was blocked...but it was her birthday and I was hoping he would want to know how she was doing. A moment of weakness I guess. If he wanted contact then I would suck it up in my daughter's best interest. I hate the man, but he is still her father, and I know hatred lessens over time...

I wont get into why I got involved with a MM...it would just sound like justification anyways. Lets leave it at...it was a huge mistake, one I have learned from and am paying a very steep price for.