FIrst of all Gena sorry for threadjacking your thread. Was uncalled for.

Pep said
quote:
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Originally posted by needtomoveon:
PEP Do you have an oc?????
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I donno, what is it?

Pep

Hmmmmmmmmmmm....really cute. So seeing you don't have an oc, you have NO clue what your husband may or maynot be thinking. What I had been telling Gena was that "this maybe what your husband is thinking. It's clear he too is not usieng the MB TOOLs. So all I was doing was saying this what he maybe thinking. It was nothing wrong I said to her, nor was it off limits. You seem to forget and it's with thinking that gets people riled up that yes HER OW does have some say so. Bottom line. Her medical care etc....Instead of nickpicking everything I say and being trollish over it, just leave it alone. I never said that she should NOT be at the hospital did I? Another thing if her husband is not going to bend on being in the room with ow, there is not a thing she can do about it. She can either join him or not. She can't force the MB tools on him. Just like he can't force things on her. He is being unreasonsable yes, but I never told him too.....so yes Peperband I was trying to help her. What good are you doing for her when you have never had a oc and have no clue what she or her husband are feeling. I know it is very hard to understand this concept, but some (not many) do feel an obligation to any and all of there chidren. Again it is few and far between. But they do. I have no problem with someone disagreeing with me, but I don't disrespect people (okay Lynn and I had it out but we have a truce) and I NO MEANS had that coming. Everyone has stating how they felt and it was going fine until you had to start putting me down and disecting everything YOU did NOT like because it was not what was best FOR YOU.

Pepperband has 3 P's. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Are you here to help Genia (and others) improve marriages using Marriage Builder tools?

Yes or no?

Do you believe MB can help save damaged marriages?
Pep

I had answered your question and then was not logged in still. I have to take my kids to swimming lessons and will be back after dinner to respond to your questions. I can answer it honestly and so I'll get back to you.

Hmmmmmmmmmmm....really cute.

Thanks! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I do try to make a joke now and then to break tension.

So seeing you don't have an oc, you have NO clue what your husband may or maynot be thinking.

Ya got me on this one ... coz I have "no clue" to what you just said! It makes no sense as written. You must have been rushed. Try again.

What I had been telling Gena was that "this maybe what your husband is thinking.

You can tell Genia what HER husband may be thinking? ... OK ... and how does this help her and her marriage? If his thinking is selfish and anti-marriage ... and basically disrespectful to Genia...?

It's clear he too is not usieng the MB TOOLs.

Yes... very obvious.

So all I was doing was saying this what he maybe thinking. It was nothing wrong I said to her, nor was it off limits.

Not off limits ... but probably not all that helpful when it comes to Marriage recovery.

You seem to forget and it's with thinking that gets people riled up that yes HER OW does have some say so.

No clue what you just said. Sorry.

In my opinion, an outsider has no business making decisions about another person's marriage relationship. I do not give a hoot about Genia's OW opinion of Genia's marriage.

Bottom line. Her medical care etc....Instead of nickpicking everything I say and being trollish over it, just leave it alone.

Sorry, do not get your point.

I never said that she should NOT be at the hospital did I?

This has nothing to do with the principle I choose to discuss ... which is mutual respect within a marriage in order for it to work.

Another thing if her husband is not going to bend on being in the room with ow, there is not a thing she can do about it.

Of course not. You are stating the obvious.

Genia does need to draw her boundaries of respectful behavior within her marriage and base her future on her H's willingness to fall within her boundaries.

If H does things knowingly that will hurt Genia, she has a decision to make.

She can either join him or not.

Genia has much bigger problem going on in her marriage than this delivery room decision ... and that problem is disrespect.

She can't force the MB tools on him.

Do you know what the MB tools are when it comes to recovery after infidelity?

Forcing tools on "him"? LOL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Are you being funny? I am asking Genia to use HER tools!

Just like he can't force things on her. He is being unreasonsable yes, but I never told him too.....

Are you OK? This is a very weird comment.

so yes Peperband I was trying to help her.

Are you encouraging her to use HER MB knowledge to solve her problems?

What good are you doing for her when you have never had a oc and have no clue what she or her husband are feeling.

I am not either of them. Feelings are not good tools for recovery. Principles values and ethics are.

I HAVE done an excellent Marriage Recovery of my own, and this is the experience I bring with gladness. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I know it is very hard to understand this concept, but some (not many) do feel an obligation to any and all of there chidren.

His highest obligation before God is to his WIFE.

Again it is few and far between. But they do. I have no problem with someone disagreeing with me,

Me either

but I don't disrespect people (okay Lynn and I had it out but we have a truce) and I NO MEANS had that coming. Everyone has stating how they felt and it was going fine until you had to start putting me down and disecting everything YOU did NOT like because it was not what was best FOR YOU.

I am speaking of principles to improve Marriages ... feelings alone are not effective. Respect is lacking and must be restored.

Pep

<small>[ August 26, 2004, 05:33 PM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>

NTMO

To make it perfectly clear (I hope)

I don't care a thing about your past.... XOW/XWW/XW ... whatever you used to be matters not. What you stand for right now matters MUCH.

If you post solid Marriage Recovery advice ... more power to ya, and thank-ya little gal!

And if you are posting advice to a wounded Married woman who needs guiding principles and useful recovery tools to fix what is wrong with her Marriage damaged by an affair ...

then why post about "feelings" of the OW?

It is not useful to the Marriage. It is not relevent to the Marriage. Basically, who cares? Not my business. Marriage recovery is what matters. Not feelings.

Feelings are not tools. Feelings have no intrinsic ethical or moral value. Feelings are neither "good" or "bad" morally. Feelings just "are".

The biggest decisions we make in our lives are better made with out higher brain functioning ... our rational mind and our moral compass.

Sometimes "feelings" pull us away ... drag us off course ... divert our lives off our "true North" our moral compass.

Focusing on OW or WH feelings will be a distraction for Genia. Looking there does not get the job of Marriage Recovery done. Feelings of adulterors are confusing and changable with the wind.

Better to map out a PLAN using morals, principles, self-respect, integrity and honor.... throw in some radical honesty ... and you just may have something!

Have a fun day!

Pep <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

Pep........this is stupid. I'm not even going there with you. You don't have an oc and you have no idea what your saying to me...you back and forth from gena to MB tools? Which one do you want?? One or both? Because I'm a guest on this board and respect most here I'm bowing out of this one with you. Find someone else to pull your games on. I was going to answer your question, but it is clear your just edging a fight and nothing more. YOU have a good eveing

MTMO.....wow...
I get your point.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
ent

NTMO,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> So seeing you don't have an oc, you have NO clue what your husband may or maynot be thinking. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">And you don't have a marriage you are trying to rebuild with YOUR H that has an OC, so you can't possibly understand that aspect of marriage building.

You are trying to give her insight into HER situation based on what you "think" the MM you were involved with MAY have been thinking, therefore what Genia's H MAY be thinking. Or the OW. As Pep said,,,totally irrelevant.

The site is Marriage Builders. And Pep (a member here, not a guest),, is trying to help her do just that, based on HER successful experience.

Newrly, that is not true. I am NO longer working on my marriage. I am NOT saying what my MM maybe thinking. I saying what a MAN maybe thinking. By what I understand (and could be wrong) Pep is too no longer working on her marriage....so that point is moot.

Sorry to jump in here.. but something is bothering me...

ntmo...
You are not working on your marriage?
Then why even come to a site called MarriageBuilders?

And saying that Pepperband is not working on her marriage?
She is STILL married thus CONSTANTLY working on her marriage! Any marriage having dealt with infidelity, whether or not it produces a child, will always require constant work.
For that matter, ALL marriages require work if the couple wants to STAY MARRIED. And the MarriageBuilders Principles aren't just for couples dealing with infidelity.

That being said,
Pepperband has tried to help Genia by encouraging her to use the MB Principles to improve HERSELF and HER side of the marriage.
I can tell you that in MY marriage my H doesn't think that the MB principles are worth learning, but he is using them even though he doesn't think so.
Sometimes it can take ONE to implement the Principles and then the other will follow when they see the changes in the other person.

So how is what you are saying going to help Genia improve herself or her marriage?

Kudos to you, Pepperband! (need an applause icon)
Thanks for injecting the Principles back onto the board. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

NTMO,

You missed the point....

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am NO longer working on my marriage </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">THAT is the point!

This is a marriage builders web site.

Ever notice your main disagreements on this board, as a guest, seem to be with the members (Pep and Lynn for example) that strongly emphasize the marriage comes FIRST?

Pep........this is stupid.

Sorry you feel that way.

For me, healthy respectful conversation over ISSUES RELATED TO MARRIAGE RECOVERY is not stupid.

That is THE REASON this site exists.

I'm not even going there with you.

OK

You don't have an oc

I have children that we adopted who were OC, abandoned by their parents... but so what?

OC visitation or OC issues are not my issue with Genia. At this time MARRIAGE RECOVERY comes first.

Unless Genia and her husband build a solid foundation on which their marriage can stand, their family will crumble. And THAT matters to me, to Genia, and to ALL MB supporters.

and you have no idea what your saying to me...you back and forth from gena to MB tools? Which one do you want?? One or both?

I want this board to go back to basics and discuss the tools available on THIS MARRIAGE BUILDERS SITE in support of Genia and her struggle to save her family.

The MB tools work, if not to save Genia's marriage (sometimes things are not going to work out), the tools can work to keep her from being sucked into the downward ~drama~ that is so destructive. OW "feelings" are part of the drama and are NOT part of MARRIAGE BUILDING ... and I encourage any MB member trying to save a MARRIAGE to ignore outside ~drama~ and concentrate on the marriage-to-be-saved.

Get a plan ... is my mantra. Follow your plan.

Because I'm a guest on this board and respect most here I'm bowing out of this one with you.

You are a member if you have signed up. MY member number is 7644, what is yours?

My marriage is alive and well .... and I want Genia's to thrive as well.

The issue right now is her MARRIAGE .... not any issue dealing with OC, OW or other drama.

Find someone else to pull your games on.

I do not consider MARRIAGE BUILDING to be a game. I think this is very serious stuff.

I was going to answer your question, but it is clear your just edging a fight and nothing more. YOU have a good eveing

It is very clear that I think Genia's MARRIAGE is worth saving and more than that !!!! I think it has a good chance of recovery if Genia gets appropriate guidence!

Pep

<small>[ August 27, 2004, 10:03 AM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>

I am NO longer working on my marriage.

I am truely sorry your marriage did not work out.

I am NOT saying what my MM maybe thinking. I saying what a MAN maybe thinking.

I must draw your attention back to what you originally said ... You refered to what Genia's husband may be "feeling". You did NOT say thinking.

Thinking and feeling are both wonderful human abilities. And they serve separate functions that often cross over in the milieu of human consciousness. But, they are different.

By what I understand (and could be wrong) Pep is too no longer working on her marriage....so that point is moot.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> I work on our MARRIAGE every single day. As does my beautiful husband! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

OUR MARRIAGE is our joy, our foundation, our conviction to our family.

God bless ALL marriages!

Pep

I believe NTMO is a moderator at TOW. I could be mistaken, but her story matches up to one of them.

Hi Pepperband,

I appreciate your support of me. I love my husband to death. However, I have very little hope for my marriage surviving the cunning of OW. She is a very talented manipulator. My husband is narcist in personality and I am sure he enjoyed the drama of two women fighting for his attention. Now the reality of everything is setting in with OW soon to give birth. I have set my boundaries. I will inform husband and if he breaks the boundaries I will just kick him out. I can understand NTMO's thoughts as mother of her child and that helps me somehow to understand thinking of OW and WS. So I have learnt from both sides. Understanding OW thinking, however, does nothing to help me save marriage. Husband is the one I have to work with and if he falls trap to OW then I have no other recourse than to end this insanity. I cannot keep fighting a losing battle. It is damaging to my sanity and my dignity as a woman.

My husband is narcist in personality and I am sure he enjoyed the drama of two women fighting for his attention.

Maybe so.... but almost every single person acts the narcissist during their affair. The selfishness has to rule in order for the affair to continue.

Now the reality of everything is setting in with OW soon to give birth. I have set my boundaries.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I will inform husband and if he breaks the boundaries I will just kick him out.

See my other post on other thread. Make NO threats or declare ultimatums.

Plan A your butt off.

You state your feelings right now, coz you are in Plan A

I can understand NTMO's thoughts as mother of her child and that helps me somehow to understand thinking of OW and WS. So I have learnt from both sides. Understanding OW thinking, however, does nothing to help me save marriage.

EXACTLY .... compassion for OW is moot when it comes to YOUR MARRIAGE. A non-issue for your sinking marriage.

Husband is the one I have to work with and if he falls trap to OW then I have no other recourse than to end this insanity.

It is crazy-making, isn't it? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

I cannot keep fighting a losing battle. It is damaging to my sanity and my dignity as a woman.

That's why you need help.

What books have you read?

Pep

<small>[ August 27, 2004, 11:05 AM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>

I have read His Needs, Her Needs.

I tried to get husband to read but he thinks the books are crap because I ordered off the Internet. He does not like me posting to you guys and thinks you all are putting thoughts in my head.

I am burnt out, Seven Months is long enough and I feel like I cannot go on much longer. I feel a good Plan B would bring him back to me if he really loves me. I do not feel threatened by the OW. But she has been a convenient person for him to talk to. I know he would not last with her in a relationship. I do beleive however, his emotional attachment with her has damaged our marriage.

Genia....

Was there ever a time your husband was a respectful husband?
Did his morals and standards ever match well with yours before the affair and OC problems?

Love is not in question ... character issues have been raised by you.

What is your H's basic character?

Pep

Pep,

He has lied from the beginning to cover his butt for things he does wrong. He disrespected me from the beginning. I always made excuses for him just like I made excuses for my two husbands before him. I am used to abuse because that is all I know, but this is the first time I caught a husband cheating on me. I think my second husband cheated but I never had solid proof on him. I thought I caught him with solid evidence but he blamed his neighbor. So I have lived with abuse all my life but this is the first time I have had to deal with irreputable physical evidence that a husband has cheated on me. I know I should not deal with abuse either, but sometimes I think it is in the cards for me. I hope one day, I will wake up and have somebody love me and not abuse me physically or emotionally.

Genia, who abused you as a child?

Pep