Is it wrong to snoop in my H's belongings to ensure he is on the up & up? I don't totally distrust him but I am leary that he is not adhering to my requests...i.e. NC with OW unless it is specifically about OC. He gets very upset with me when I look at his phone records and his email. He has actually threaten that he cannot be in a situation where he feels like he is being watched. I told him what do he prefer....being without me & our child or being watched...so far he has choosed the latter. Since finding out about his A 4 mos ago, I have only looked through his things 4x. Each time I find something suspect that he easily explains away. Today I saw a text message from the OW where she says (and I quote)

"What do you care for. You act like I no longer exist. So you don't need to come up there. Let a girl have a little fun since you are unavailable to play with"

I did not see what he originally wrote that prompted this response (he is getting better a deleting messages, but her response was new so he has not had time to read and delete). What, if anything, do I interpret from this message. It does not really say alot...i.e. he's cheating. But it lends and air of flirting that I believe is totallly inappropriate. She is nonexistent in my opinion which I want him to communicate as such to her. I started to reply directly and say just that but I don't want to make this situation hostile.

So what do I do? Should I confront him with the knowledge of this message? Should I stop snooping? I definitely intend on communicating my expectations and that if he cannot conform than we cannot be togehter. Finding this stuff takes so much out of me. We were actually having good days and reconnecting. I don't want to ruin that by bringing this up.

I think its wrong to snoop. I know its got to be hard for you. It was for me. My H's A started on the internet and I found out about it by reading his old emails. When I confronted him about it, he was just as mad at me for snooping as I was devastated about the affair. I thought he sure had a lot of nerve to be upset with me about reading his EMAIL!! But the thing I learned in MC was that distrust is distrust. And dishonesty is dishonesty. Either you are an honest nad faithful person or your not. You might think that you are helping yourself out by making sure you keep him on the straight and narrow, but if he has been bothered by your snooping before then he is sure to be MORE bothered by it now. This isnt a time for you to be adding MORE distrust between you.

In the situation with my H, he told me that the more I snoop the more likely he'll feel justified in doing what he was doing before. He wanted my TOTAL honesty with him and vice versa. Its not fair to ask your H to be honest when your not. Just my little experience with that.

Snoop, and all you want. When your marriage is threatened by his behind-your-back actions, actions he is not willingly laying before your eyes and ears, then all bets are off.

He is contacting her. That is unacceptable. He doesn't want you to "snoop" because he wants you in the dark. That is unacceptable.

He has laid heavy damage upon your marriage and relationship... he needs to be an open book so that you don't feel a need to snoop. But if he is not willing to be that open book, then you need to do what you need to do to protect yourself from further harm.

Honesty has a place in all marriages, when it is an open two-way street ... NOT when one party is using dishonesty to destroy the relationship.

Snooping does not make you a dishonest person at all. It makes you an informed one. When you stop finding things that alarm you, I will bet it is when your WH has opened himself bare to all and there is nothing left to find. Until then, you are living with a liar.

Please protect yourself utnil he will willing to protect you as a husband should.

~ Snow

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Jess-Anne:
<strong> When I confronted him about it, he was just as mad at me for snooping as I was devastated about the affair.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Jess-Ann, I don't think what he experienced was at all akin to the devestation you felt from his betrayal. What he felt was anger because his little game was unveiled and he wasn't going to be able to play anymore.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Jess-Anne:
<strong> But the thing I learned in MC was that distrust is distrust. And dishonesty is dishonesty. Either you are an honest nad faithful person or your not.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Read my note above: snooping under the circumstances of betrayal does not make one dishonest. It makes them informed. I strongly disagree with your MC on this one, as would many MCs, our own included. If the WS is doing little or nothing to repair the damage and just expects the BS to grant blind trust... it is unreasonable. And foolish.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Jess-Anne:
<strong> You might think that you are helping yourself out by making sure you keep him on the straight and narrow, but if he has been bothered by your snooping before then he is sure to be MORE bothered by it now. This isnt a time for you to be adding MORE distrust between you..</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Actually snooping has nothing to do with keeping a WS on the "straight and narrow." The WS will do what they will. It is to give yourself the information you need to decide how to best protect YOURSELF and your family from the WS's contiuing lies.

WS's who truly want to repair their marriages understand and accept snooping from their BS. Many even encourage it. Those who do NOT, who claim they feel the BS is being dishonest by snooping, are often those WS who have not given up the OP or are struggling to keep their "options" open.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Jess-Anne:
<strong> In the situation with my H, he told me that the more I snoop the more likely he'll feel justified in doing what he was doing before.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This "reasoning" is right out of the WS handbook. It translates roughly to: "If I make you feel badly enough about snooping, maybe you'll quit and I can go on and play as I want to."

Not picking on you Jess-Ann, truly. But a lot of what you wrote does not sit well with me. I'll say it again... until the WS transforms and is willing to lay everything out bare and for inspection, you are likely living with a liar who at best doesn't want to face the consequences of his or her own actions, and at worst, is still cheating on you.

~ Snow

TR whatever & jessanne---how about we look @ it this way..........it's not 'snooping' it's ACCOUNTABIITY.

There is nothing wrong w/ that. If H says he is not talking to OW then he won't mind letting me check his cell phone records.

I know a man who has NEVER had a problem w/ comp porn & part of it is he NEVER deletes his computer history until his SIL looks it over-------to hold him accountable--get it? He can SAY he's trustworthy ALL he wants--but we all know how much weight WORDS hold or else we wouldn't be here----he makes himself accountable to keep himself in check.

I think TR, the question you should be asking yourself is what are you gonna do w/ what you find? If you are unwilling to follow through on a consequence then don't look..but if you are willing to draw the line in the sand--then a confrontation w/ a consequence, is a must.

What is H gonna get mad about? Is he gonna say, were you looking through my things? then you say, YES I was. Don't you trust me? NO i don't. duh! What is so hard about that?

The burden of trust is NOT on the BS..it is on the WS to PROVE he/she is trustworthy!!!!!!!

It seems simple to me.

It's like after A many BS want WS to call if they are gonna deviate from their schedules, gonna be late ect. (which is also common courtesy) Is that too much to ask because WS might 'feel' like you don't trust them & get their feelings hurt? whaa whaa whaa puhleeze!

Dang right we don't trust them & w/ good reason! Eventuallly when the trust is rebuilt those check-ins become more & more unnecessary but out of love, respect & courtesy for BS, the WS continues to check in just to confirm to BS that they are STILL (& once again) trustworthy.

Do you get it?

TR--he has already broken your boundary--that was obviously NOT conversation about OC-----so what are you gonna do? Face it--he doesn't respect or believe what you say your gonna do so you better think of a consequence that you are actually WILLING to do & do it!

TR- you wanted to know if anyone could help interperet this message that OW sent to H in response to his...... I can. I read it and I understand 100% what OW was responding to. Its chrystal clear.

OW said:
"What do you care for. You act like I no longer exist. So you don't need to come up there. Let a girl have a little fun since you are unavailable to play with"

Here is what went down. OW told your H she was going somewhere that involves another man. She says "what do you care for-you act as I don't exist" H must have also said something about going "there"-wherever she was going that day - like he wants to show up to pee on his territory-letting her know he does not like another man sniffing around her. Then she says- "Let a girl have a little fun since you are unavalable to play with" As in- you are basically ignoring me for wife now-so let me have my fun w/another guy.

Pretty clear to me TR- no doubt. I'm good at this stuff and that was a pretty easy one.

Honey PLEASE do not allow yourself to get to that scary place where we put our head up our butts so we don't have to present H w/evidence.. so we don't "rock the boat" and "upset" them.. Dont ever allow yourself to look the other way and enable him. Like not to upset HIM! A bad sign is a WS who is IRRITATED and angry at being watched. A WS who is remorseful and NOT having ANYTHING to hide is very agreeable and happy to let you feel better by doing whatever you need to be secure!!! He is still emotionally stringing her along - as I can see from her response. He is not 100% through. Be careful- and YES you do have the right to snoop. He is already f'ing up as you can see by the text message. You better snoop TR- cause something is not right and you MUST know since he obviously is still being dishonest.

But what good is snooping if you are not going to let the info out? You will stew and go crazy-it won't work trying to pretend nothing is wrong. You know what you are feeling is real- that he is still breaking his promise of NC unless stricktly regarding OC.

I am so sorry to say this- I hate to sound so negative but keeping this in is only allowing him to further disrespect you and to keep OW around in some way. (big hug TR)... Please take care and again, sorry for the hurtful interpretation of the text message.

<small>[ September 05, 2004, 03:58 PM: Message edited by: giovanna123 ]</small>

Tr821
Do you and he have the agreement that if OW contacts him, HE is to tell you?

Your husband should have no privacy when it comes to his communicating with another woman especially one he had an affair with.

I am glad your husband chose to be watched as oppose to be without his family. thats very positive but if you are not included in all communications between him and her then what is he hiding? I would pose that question.

I think he is trying , but by her text she is trying to bait him into refueling his interest in her.

Snowbelle,

Thank you for writing to me. I'm sorry I don't know how to put a quote in my reply but basically I'll just say that i was so shocked to read what other people said about this! I am definately going to bring this up at the next session with our MC. What you said is a real eye opener to me. A little shocking, too, because now I'm worried why my H reacted the way he did. Thank you so much for posting to me.

Jess-Ann,

Yes, please bring it up with your counselor. And think about any things that might have been making you feel uncomfortable, things that you have been "sitting on" because you felt that you just needed to "trust" your husband.

When you talk about these instances where doubt has crossed your mind, be aware of how your husband reacts. Does he roll his eyes? Tighten his lips? Fold his arms across his chest? All of these might indicate that he is unhappy that he is losing control and he will try to intimidate you so that you will back off. Pleasantly stand your ground.

Counseling should be a "safe" place to air these issues. If your H insists he has a right to privacy, respectfully disagree and explain why, that he has to "earn" your trust again. If the MC agrees with husband, get a new marriage counselor. Perhaps hire the Harleys, or interview different counselors and ask if they are familiar with the MB concepts.

My best to you.

~ Snow

Thanks to everyone for responding to my question and helping me through what I should do.

Just an update, I did confront him about what I saw and asked him what the intent of the OW's message was. He told me that it started with her text messaging him about going out and he questioned where the OC would be. She told he why was he concerned when he's not around to be apart of the OC's life. This was the first time that she's shown anger regarding his lack of presence. Needless to say he was shocked because he thought he would not have baby mama drama. He was not upset with me snooping and had decided that he could not protest to me snooping because he was the WS (however, he was still deleting messages so that I could not read them). I told him that I am going to make an attempt to stop snooping. I can't deal with the emotional fall out...i.e. how I feel until I decide to confront him. I gave him my expecations on how I expected him to conduct himself and that if he could not comply with them we could not make it together. I have told him that he can talk to the OW only as it pertains to the OC. Normally, there is not much communication (that I am aware of). He did tell me that the comment he made about the OC to the OW sparked a whole flood of emotions from her. Basically, she is unhappy with his lack of interest in her & the OC (although he is intersted in OC just not ready - as I am not ready to deal with V with OC). He attempted to try and explain the situation to her to eliminate drama (she threatened to not let him see the C)but I told him he doesn't owe her anything. She can't keep him from OC as we can get the court to establish V (right??).

Utimately, I want to do what's best to strengthen my marriage. I will not ignore obvious signs or things that make me feel uncomfortable. I beileive my H loves me and has made a choice to be with me. He knows I am not going to allow a situation to manifest where I am being disrespected. I want to work on our trust issues. He has shown a lot of progress towards being there for me in the way I need him to be. I hope that we can survive this...for us and our son.

Thanks again for everyone's comments....this board has been a great way for me to vent my frustrations without prejudicing my family.