</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">she did not feel like SHE was in control and she constantly needed information </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Okay, and how does "this plan" give her control ?

What is the desired result of "this plan"?

Not asking questions, accepting continued contact with the OW ?

Let me ask you...because I truly don't understand how recovery begins without NC.

To let M23B exhale, thinking her "plan" is working and the "FOG" is lifting could very well be setting her up for another heartache.

It's not M32B that's the issue here, it's D23B.

Have you ever really gone back and read his postings ?

He talks a good game. Let's just hope he casts this intrusive OW aside once and for all and gives M23B the decent chance she deserves.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am really sorry you feel there is ONLY one way to do plan A and if you mess it up too bad no more tries, somehow I just don't think that is what the Harley's had in mind </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So are you saying Mom failed at her Plan A ? I've read SAA, and although the Plans are not always clearly defined, I'm pretty positive NC is the first condition to be met.

I'm sorry. We just don't agree. And I hope to GOD I'm wrong..I hope 6 months from now I can stop in and say hey...SOM...I was SO wrong...I pray for that..in this case...I want to be.

Maybe look into getting a temp legal seperation order only on paper so that the Other woman doesnt get a lot of your Husbands money with a child support order your 3 boys will get the most and then what is left over can go to the OC.

Thats just somehting that may work you can ask your lawyer about it.
Maybe alimony as well.
in the long run you can use it if he does turn on you.

Hi M23B!

I have to say I believe that EVERYONE can successfully do a Plan A of their own sorts. What sounds good on "paper" may need to altered from person to person- couple to couple, as each relationship has dynamics/personalities/needs that differ. Not everything works for all involved, etc.

I think that M23B is doing what she has the strength to do- and doing what she is doing now TAKES SOOOOOO MUCH more strength than goind buck-wild with emotion and LBing, etc etc. I could NEVER on earth have the strength to kill them w/kindness and callous behavior of sorts. That takes control that I could not find. Hey,its been a short time and she isnt signing away her home for him! I think she is on full allert right now for his games.

If he does NOT agree to stay out of the delivery room by the time of delivery.. M2 PLEASE do not stay with him- thats when there just isnt enough Plan A in the world. Tha bad news is, that he should naturally FEEL he does not even need to be there or in contact..and he just wouldn't be. My H said he feels strange just being around her- unfamiliar w/her and would not even consider it w/her.... that is my hope, that her H will be clear enough soon,and do whats right cause thats how he feels, know what I mean?

Betrayed
I had a long post done last night when my one year old decided my laptop was thirsty <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

After a night to dry out I am back <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

BinNJ your DH and Dad affairs were approx the same length. NOT when D-day occurred but till
now. Imagine if your DH got his OW pregnant.
You would be dealing with a totally different situation.

As far as the NC in PLAN A <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />
I have read here for years, if every person here
tossed there WW/WH out for contact during plan A
the divorce board would be very busy, Don't you think? Off the top of my head Bob Pure/ FIM come to mind at the moment.

This was Dads first and only Affair.
FIM is dealing with at least 3 affairs
Dad wants the marriage to work, but has been "brainwashed" with fear by the OW"
"Your Wife will make your life hell forever"
"Mom will never love you the way I do"
"Mom can NEVER forgive you"
"you will forever be miserable"
To name just a few, not to mention the CONSTANT paging, calling, etc.

FIM's DH has already filed Divorce.
Dad does not want one.

Dad is not waffling anylonger. He know what he has to do and what he wants (MOM). He IS taking baby steps to get there, but the bottom line is HE IS MOVING in that direction.

THIS PLAN A is MOM's survival right now.
She has a wonderful sense of humor and is able to see the classic "fog sayings" that Dad spirts out once in awhile. She IS MOVING FORWARD and SHE is stronger, I THOUGHT THAT WAS PLAN A <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Betrayed you are not Dr. Harley, Nor am I. I think personally the golden rule should apply here.

You dont like Dad, I think Dad is a very intelligent, high energy guy, nice guy who got got up in a bad situation. Mom has decided to STAY with Dad and work through this situation.
That is the bottom line.

She needs support period

Hey Mom,

Hope to hear from you soon.
How did the infections finally turn out? No scars I hope...How is your NEW body?

I agree that something in writing is a GREAT idea so that the boys and you are taken care of.

Keep up the good work!! How do you do it...cut out the LB's...I still have problems with that?

StillHere - M23B's surgeries are da bomb diggety, if I do say so myself! I wanna tuck now! How do I get my ins. to pay for that?

Hey chica! Where are you??? Still at the ortho?

M23B, I would work on my marriage to what I felt is right. Don't worry about the Delv right now. Just work on making your M stronger and the best it can be. I've always said that Pa & PB rules do not apply to all. You change you and let God work on H. But him seeing that you are committed no matter what will help make a change. Not in a doormat kind of way but in you I am your wife and we made a vow and yes we fall sometimes but yes we can get up and make it better for all involved.
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> Sunny D

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">BinNJ your DH and Dad affairs were approx the same length. NOT when D-day occurred but till now. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You&#8217;re right there, DDAY was within a few days of each other, but my FWH A was in progress for 6 months, my H was very emotionally attached to this woman, they spoke of M and having children together.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">As far as the NC in PLAN A
I have read here for years, if every person here
tossed there WW/WH out for contact during plan A
the divorce board would be very busy, Don't you think? Off the top of my head Bob Pure/ FIM come to mind at the moment.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You&#8217;re right, but I never indicated NC should be intact during Plan A, but it is a condition of reconciliation AFTER PLAN B. There is absolutely no excuse, reason, or &#8220;baby step&#8221; involved with NC. It&#8217;s clean, plain and simple with the OW. You just do it NC. Period. It doesn&#8217;t mean&#8230;I&#8217;ll go over and look at sonogram pictures and tell you after the fact And if his intentions were TRUE AND RESPESTFUL of Mom, he wouldn&#8217;t have gone FIRST, and THEN told her. He should have called her, asked her opinion about it, but he EXCLUDED HER.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Dad wants the marriage to work, but has been "brainwashed" with fear by the OW" </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">&#8211; This statement just doesn&#8217;t make sense, he either wants to work on the M or not, the OW has nothing at all to do with his desire or lack thereof to work on the M.

You keep missing my basic point, and it&#8217;s about NO CONTACT. The WS is never serious about working on the M while they are still having CONTACT with the OP. It is waffling back and forth while CONTACT is still being made.

THAT is my point. That is all I&#8217;m referring to.

If you can find ANYONE else that agrees it's okay for D23B to still have contact with OP, I'll retract my post, but he's still in contact, and THAT is the whole problem, it's always been the problem, and continues to be the problem.

Ok, this may bite me in the butt, but here goes. No contact w/ C with OC? How is that possible? I dont want to talk to the ow! I will and have but just really dont want to, she's not my friend and I am not hers. Less confortation. They have or are having a child together. No I dont agree w/ falling all over the ow everytime she goes to the doc app, or child goes to dr. But there is a child and IF you do contact w/the child there is going to be contact with the OP. I know OW call, but he tells me ! Thats the point. Is he hiding the fact, no he has to be honest. But by him being honest does mom throw a fit? Why tell? Forgiveness rather that permission thing there. I've made H confortable in talking with me about ow and oc. I proved to him he can be honest and I wont blow a gaslet every single time. And visa versa. Does he know when I am upset, YES! I tell him but it is talking about it and not shouting or yelling or calling names. Communication, thats what we are all working on, right? It makes your M better, stronger and more enjoyable. Like me being D and having a D , my H step D. Ok is it right for him to get mad when I talk to him? No we have a child and thats all we have to talk about. Yes I loved the man at one time, who's to say we're not talking about H or I could choose to sleep w/ him again? (NOT IN A MILLION YEARS) You just dont know and thats where you build your trust. My H went to the H and I was going to go and at the last min I backed out. WHY did he want to go, cause its HIS child and he had the need to be there and hold him. NOT HER. He was w/ me up until she was just about to have him and was there for awhile, held his son and left. And called me every so often to reassure me of why and what he was there for. I went shopping, and I was right across the street. Was the ow happy that I was going to be there, you know that one, but it didn't matter H wanted me there. I did let him down, but he understood after we spent time together talking. And even told me he wasn't going if I was not going to be at home for him afterwards. But it has to do w/ learning to be honest w/ each other. Making your M stronger and then you will find that the OW just dont matter anymore. I have realized I am more of a woman, mother, and wife than she will ever be. And I'm proving it everyday to someone that has become worthy of it! I may be all wrong and only time will tell, but this is the way that God has shown me to do this and its changed my life to get over it and go on with my life.
Just my 2 cents.
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> Sunny D

SD,
The OC is 6 months off from being born. There is absolutely no reason in the world for contact to continue with OP in the meantime. It's not healthy for a M that's trying to GET stable. And what if the unthinkable happens and the baby turns out not to even BE D23B ?

Going over to share sonogram pictures is not necessary, and it leaves M23B out.

For anyone that does find a way to have contact with the OC, and it doesn't effect the M in any way...GREAT.

But for right now, NC has to be initiated. I don't understand why it's necessary for D23B to continue to have contact with the OW right now. His priority should be his wife and his boys. Period. He'll have enough to juggle once that baby IS born, but right now, he has a lot of work to do AT HOME.

OW should not be part of D23B's time right now. That's just my opinion. I think M23B deserves some time and effort, consistently. D23B should be jumping over himself to try to make up all the crap he's put her through.

Betrayed,

Mom never did a serious plan A. Unless you call the constant 5th degree, anxiety and love busting a good plan A??

As far as plan B, Mom set up for plan B BUT she never could do it. She could never not pick up Dads calls (callerID), they continued contact all along. So there really never was a Plan B.
Mom just was not ready for it, she never got herself to a comfortable point to be successful at it.

First she needs to do a solid plan A one that she feels comfortable in. She also wants her DH home with her. Mom wants her marriage. Her and Dad are getting along and working together for their family.

As far as the US picture, she works at the hospital were Dad see's patients. That hopefully will change, but it really can't right now. I checked with my DH he confirmed what dad
said about walking from that contract. It is just not advisable.

I did not want to get into an internet battle with you Betrayed. I was just trying to point out that Mom needs support, NOT a verbal spanking at every turn.
JMHO

YES!!! Stressed Out Mom. I agree wholeheartedly with your ENTIRE post. Support, questions, suggestions, but no more holding feet to the fire, it is not helping.

StressedoutMom - thank you for being a lighthouse to my new friend. She is more grateful than you know for your support. (((hugs))) We're all a team here, you know?

- Kimmy