Hello to all,
I just want to ask the women of this board (ow,mw,bw) if Child Support was not demanded by law in USA would you be more careful with your birth control choices and the men you have sex with, knowing in the end you could ultimately be solely responsible for that life? I personally don't by an accidental pregnancy from women, I believe that women either just leave it up to chance (no BC or don't use it correctly on purpose, like skipping a pill etc) and hope for the best in the end or they want the baby but know that the man wouldn't have the baby unless forced. I don't believe that a man should be obligated to a child he never wanted in the first place, even if he did not use birth control himself. Nor should a woman be obligated to a child she didn't want either and women ultimately have the final say on what happens once she gets pregnant. I'm all for adoption, abortion (but not as a BC choice) and this is not about where the COUPLE (M or not) agreed together, planned, wanted the baby together.
I personally am fighting the urge to have another baby "accidentally" but I know that my family is not ready for that yet. I want another baby so badly, I'm 33 and time is running out but I don't want to put the extra weight of a new baby on an entire family that isn't ready for it, just to satisfy my own wants. Since coming off the pill a few months ago I have to force myself every time I have sex to use 2 (more during the week of ovulation) forms of protection and it sucks big time since we have a very active sex life! But thats what responsible women do, right? I'm trying to do whats right by my unborn, not even conceived, baby and give it the best possible circumstances I can provide to come into this world with. Not the dark desperate act of an OW trying to get the MM during an A or the act of a hurt BW trying to fix the marriage damaged due to infidelity. (this is not directed at anyone here)
It makes me wonder am I the only woman who has these feelings and can openly admit it? If there were no CS laws, would women be more responsible for their birth control?

The reasons to conceive a child are so many. What are yours? I think yes the laws should indeed change. Too many W get out her and get pg just for the support and obligate a man who is just after a pc of the pie. I think men should he held liable also. Your child your choice, but NOT telling the man up front is WRONG! Most men if you told them, ok I would like to have another child. hey I know your M in all, but I need a little pc of you right here beside me when you cant be, BUT in the next 21 years you will pay AT least 151,000! I dont think they would take that pc of pie. Ya think? Nope dont think so. Hey its going to put your life though hell, cause you cant make up your mind anyway, cause if your happy in your M, you wouldn't be here right? WRONG, if its free (up til the pg) most, not all will take it. Problems in a M and being selfesh has ended up w/ alot of children not knowing their father/mother/sister/brothers ect. I dont think a child should be conceived in this way at all! Don't know really if you are a ow,bs, whatever but conceiving a child should be a joint TEAM effort, out of love and respect for the vows you have made together. And I always say God doesn't make mistakes, people do. I hope you dont.
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> Sunny D

Oh and to answer, yes I think OW would still have these children, cause alot of them are not money issues, money is a type of revenge thing. Hurt, lied to get them where it counts pocket book. So most woman would still do this. Alot of the ow just want to be involved w/ the mm life forever or like I said earlier, just to have a pc of the or try (like I was told by ow) to even the score, he stays w/ you cause of your C so I will make him choose. This is not addressed to all ow, just my own experience. I really think if you wnat to make a law, bring back the allieation (sp) of affection law in most of the states. Now if I knew I would be leagally responsible if I broke up a M, then bet you a$$ I'd tell him to get a D before he came to see me!
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> Sunny D

We've discussed this a little before but let's look @ it this way.......................

How many PROSTITUTES EVER get pg by a 'trick'? A one time stop for some guy 'just passing through' that the woman KNOWS she will most likely NEVER see again & will NEVER get any CS from........Now hmmmmmm....... how many 'accidental' or 'otherwise' pg's do they encounter?

I'm right there w/ you girl. I got pg 'accidentally' w/ my first child which means I was actually got pg on purpose----did I want to be? no, but I was irresponsible & immature & didn't even do anything to prevent it. So...there we were, 19 yo----our wedding (we were engaged) moved up real quick.

Forever after..you better believe I was CAREFUL. I did NOT have our 2nd child until #1 was 7.5 yo--why? Because I was making DANG sure it was a good time. Making sure that we were doing ok, our budget was doing ok & I was doing ok. See----we women CAN be responsible. I WANTED more babies & not so far apart but I'm NO IDIOT!!!!But that's just it--

RESPONSIBLE people don't go out & have A, RESPONSIBLE people don't have sex w/ married men, RESPONSIBLE people think of thier families & how thier decisions will affect everyone.
RESPONSIBLE people take responsibility for themselves!

OW was NEVER responsible in that manner.(& still isn't, I don't consider being on welfare, working 'part-time' 'because my-1-class-@-a-time education is SO important to me' <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> & letting the state pick up the tab---being responsible)

Actually H took care of the BC but OW ended up pg anyway-of course no BC is %100. BUT by HIM being responsible he was @ least making it perfectly clear that NO pg or child was intended OR wanted---oh but so what-says the LAW------ He's (which makes it 'we') gotta pay for OC no matter what. See how easy that is?

So NOW me, a MARRIED women, has to be MORE careful of her pg options because I & my kids will end up w/ LESS support than STOW because I actually decided to STAY married & ONLY have sex w/ MY H.

Intersting how that works hmmmm? Unmarried STOW can get full CS, (plus CS for another child she had exactly 2 years after OC, that child has NO dad either) but me & my kids get the left overs.
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I guess revenge is sweet------OW gets her revenge by 'making him pay', it's 'his responsiblity' & it certainly sweetens things for her doesn't it?
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Hey I think I see a correlation------Prostitutes get paid to have sex w/ anonymous man & no CS if they ever did get pg-------OW have sex w/ MM for free but get paid CS if pg------What do you think about that? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> Either way men gotta PAY!!!

ktbunch thats a really good one there.

observation of the prostitute/OW I think i respect the prostitute more LOL

Hi Gwen,

I tried to post to you earlier and got kicked off. I agree with you sorta. I think Child Support Law defineately needs to be changed at least in North Carolina. It states that child support is to be collected from both parents. That only children in household on childsupport are included in calculation. So this is a great opportunity for OW. All she needs to do is snag an unhappy married man, purposely get pregnant and she can collect from husband and wife. This is very unfair to the wife who has not slept with OW. The wife is the victim in more ways than one. This law is very anti-marriage. I am gonna look into ways to introduce changes to this laws. I do not care how many people I gotta call. We got to do something. This is so unfair. This law was probably created back when OW were ashamed to bear out of wedlock. OC used to be given up for adoption. Today their are no morals and OW proudly flaunt the offspring of Married Man.

Gwenie,

I have a question for you. You don't state whether you are M'd or not, yet you are asking about getting P on purpose, and that there are no "accidents" and what-not. Well, I am wondering how your M is? Or are you even M'd? If not, are you in a relationship where you are going to be M'd and you are looking for ways to Affair Proof your M? What support can you give to these women who are dealing with the CS/OW/OC in their lives?

Stirring the pot is not considered help. If you've not been in any of these shoes, how can you even imagine the pain that many are going through at this moment. It's like throwing into the faces of the BS how stupid the WS was having unprotected sex with the OP. Many of the BW's here are in the midst of some MAJOR pain, due to two people's selfish acts, and to rub it in their faces in such a way is wrong.

Everyone has their own opinions on "accidental" P's, and how they can or can't occur, but what these women and men need on this board is how to fix the problems that lead to the A and subsequent P in the first place! So, if you have some experience that will help them deal with where their M's stand at this moment, I'd love to hear it. Let's get back to the Marriage Building that this board was created for, and in so doing, maybe then we can get some of these unfair CS laws amended.

To answer your last question, NO, I don't think that would change a thing. It's not always the money that causes these OW to get P.

Just my $0.02

Some seem to treat their MM like a sperm donor with benefits (the main benefit being $$ until they turn 18). You don't get that extra with a sperm donor, now do ya? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

d

<small>[ November 28, 2004, 05:57 AM: Message edited by: baba2 ]</small>

My intention was not to hurt anyone here or imply that I was going to get pg with out discussing it with my H but that I want a baby badly now but know the timing is wrong. I wanted to share my feelings and it was my first post so maybe I assumed too much about this board. I don't mind, in fact I welcome the male point of view to my question. I was just thinking out loud maybe.
I will say that I should clarify my question by saying that there are probably a few (VERY FEW) real accidental pregnancies and that most of time I think the woman's subconscious knows that it was a deliberate pg. I'm not saying that a man should not be responsible for the children he wanted to help create but that why is it the law? I don't know why it must be a forced issue. I don't care if your M or not but having a child should be a mutual decision by both parties and I'm sick of seeing women using their bodies and babies like their playing a game of Chess.
I can't imagine not being responsible for my kids, neither would H. He wanted them, loves them, adores them and pays CS happily for them, he is a great Dad. However the CS for OC is not the same, he never wanted a baby with her (she said she was on the pill, which was a lie)and he never loved her. But now he will pay for 18yrs for a decision she made to get pg, just doesn't seem fair to me. I could go and have a child right now with any man willing to whip it out but is that fair to the man, to myself? or more importantly is that fair to the child I created? And then to make the other party pay for it for 18 yrs??
Don't really want to post to much information but I am a BW with an OC to deal with. I don't want to share the specifics of my H's A but the basics are that he had a brief physical (not emotional) A with a co-worker (real original), she got pg on purpose because she wanted another baby but her H is "fixed". I believe she was an ok person who made a terrible mistake, like my H did. On D-day, I went straight to the doctor's office for STD testing, followed by a visit to my lawyer's office, picked up my 5month and toddler at daycare, packed my bags and left. I divorced him and didn't look back, much.
3 yrs later, we've calmed down and are completely different people. I dated other people but he didn't and he was never with OW again, she tried to work on her M too but it failed and she is now D, my then xH wanted NC with OW or OC. My CS was filed before her's so her CS from H did not affect my children but it was a legal battle since she was married at the time of birth. xH and I fell in love again by last X-mas and are re-married with a pre-nuptial that states CS will be filed with the state for our children for 18yrs that way they are protected and all assets are listed in my name only, we still share everything and it is not like he actually pays me CS every month but its all on paper and legal so the kids and me are safe from anything in the future and the CS for OC does not effect my kids support. I would think the above statement would piss my OW and other OW off but its what I needed in the relationship and H happily gave it. Even though I love him again, I wanted to protect myself and our kids plus I will never trust him 100% ever again. We did counseling and it went great but I don't believe anyone should trust another partner so 100% completely that your blind to the fact that they are a human who makes mistakes! I'm not his Mom and I don't check up on him or have any other rules, if he wants to cheat again, he will and there isn't a damn thing I could do to stop it and it goes the same way for him too. My body and mind want another baby but our family is just now back together and needs more time to heal as a unit before we (thats H and I together) introduce another baby. I can prevent an unplanned pregnancies and still have a great sex life, I don't understand why some other women can't?
Sorry to say this, but I've been a lurker for awhile now and some of these marriages are just not meant to survive and some women need to be stronger for themselves and their families. But you have to use your head more than her heart to ensure your protection first and then listen to your heart. Also just want to add that its the actions of the WS that need to be watched not the words. If he isn't showing you remorse, love, affection, honesty, respect and a willingness to do everything in his power to make it right in your M, then let that be the hard and painful answer to your questions about the future of your M.

<small>[ September 21, 2004, 04:11 PM: Message edited by: Gwenieinabottle ]</small>

Hi Gwen,

I am so sorry for what you endured. You have come through very strong. Maybe you are speaking to me. I dunno. Problem, I love my husband very much and cannot imagine him not loveing me. I blame some of his coldness on us having affairs on each other. We are both hurt and angry with each other and I was hoping time would heal us. Yes maybe I need to let go, then I am also risking losing him forever. But I guess if he really loves me he would come back like your husband did to you.

Gwenie,

Thank you for sharing what you were comfortable sharing here. Now I can understand where you are coming from, and can reply based on that information. Now, as for your situation, you have done what you needed to do to protect yourself and your kids. You have re-married your H, and you have, in effect, used POJA from the beginning of your new M. I don't think that your statement of having YOUR children's CS still in effect, and considered BEFORE the OC's CS is offensive, and if the OW really wants to look at it that way, then they need to look in the mirror. You are taking care of your children, just as the OW takes care of the OC. You are one of the lucky ones who's CS for the BC comes BEFORE the OC! Unfortunately, there are many here who were blindsided, and weren't able to get their own CS before the OW filed, and so, due to the VERY unfair CS laws, the BC get less than what they are entitled to! Personally, I feel that the children of the M, no matter WHAT order they come in, SHOULD be considered first! Heck, in our case, as I'm sure you are familiar with the OW being M'd, Abbi is considered my H, especially since he never chose to contest paternity. If that's the case, the same consideration for the BC of the M SHOULD be considered first, especially if the OW waits a couple years, out of spite, to file CS, and the M'd couple have children between the OC's birth and the filing of the CS! Just seems unfair all together. But, that's also my $0.02.

Now, with that being said, I want to encourage you to work more on using the principles from this site in your M, whether you call them Plan A/B, POJA, LB(both love banks and love busters), EN, and what other things we have here. There is so much that you can use to help your new M to your H be stronger than the first one, and you can be happy, even with the "monthly bill" of the CS that does go to the OC. I think that you are well on your way there too!

As for wanting another child, have you really discussed this with your H? Do you know how he feels, and does he know how you feel?

And last, but certainly not least, Welcome to the MB Pregnancy/Child forum! I'm sorry for the rocky beginning with me, but hope that we can help you, and support you in any way we can.

Best regards,

Tigger