Hi Everyone!

I was curious if anybody has an opinion on this?

How many are sick and tired of the OW screaming that her child is victim? I agree with that the OC is the innocent but so are the children of the marriage.

But more than anything, the OW takes absolutely no responsibility that she doomed her own child (99% of the time)to life without a father.

I have seen fathers step up to take responsibility and the next thing you got on your hands is an out of control /controlling OW. They make it impossible to for them to see the child. The fathers have equal rights to their children. They get hounded every step of the way.

Or you get a father that has made a decision to save the family he has already commited too and decided to have NC with the OC & just pay child support. ( I see this as no big difference than putting a child up for adoption)

Although I agree that the MM is equally responsible for what happened but where does the OW take her responsibility? WHY on earth would the OW doom their own children? They put their own children into this position. As mother I never dream of putting my child in this position! I am one of those that believe woman hold the power of conception... we give birth...

I have always wonder what they tell their children when they grow up? "I am sorry you were an accident that happened?" I was screwing some married guy? I always wonder if they ever tell their child the real truth? That they were screwing with a married man?? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />
Not for a moment did they even think about the innocent children that are already here! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

I agree with all said and am sick and tired already and it's only been a month. So sad, that people have no self-respect, respect for others and are incredibly selfish at the cost of a poor little baby brought into the world at the hands of most of the time out of the pure animal instinct and acts of "lust" not love.

Yes, what do you tell the child? Incredibly sad.

Stay strong.

I agree with you inanutshell. I am sadden that women would actually do this to their own children.

In my case we have custody of our little guy (well he's not so little anymore) but we took this route b/c the OW was extemely unstable. Our first choice ; if we had the power we would have insisted that she give the baby up for adoption but the crazy OW wouldn't even think of doing that. Thats what I mean about woman having all the power to decide wether to keep the child or give it up for adoption. The fathers in these position are not so fortunate to have the same equal opportunities to make a decision and when they do make a decision about it..they get nothing but hell ...no matter what they choose. Thats why in my case we decided that we are not going to allow her to have that kind of control over our lives.

Inanutshell..I am sorry that you are in this position... the best advice I can give you ..is get your ducks in order. Only you can control your end... in order to stand up to this woman... is have united front. And get your self a good lawyer.

Lynn is fabulous givng advice in this area.
wiz

Why would we "doom" our own children?

Some of us are told by MM that he loves the baby, wants the baby, will be a good dad to the baby. We are blindsided when he does the exact opposite because that is not how HE TOLD us things would be.

You can say we should have KNOWN we'd be left in the dust. Looking back, I realize I should not believed one word from his mouth. It's hard for us to predict this as final outcome when the man tells you he will be there for you and the child you share.

If he tells me he loves the baby and wants to be a good dad, I'm not going to see "doomed child" as part of that scenario when I am pregnant. In fact, I don't even see "Doomed" as part of my child's life AT ALL- EVER.

True, my child will not have a father. It was MM's choice to walk away. He told me he would be there for our child, and he's not. Sh*t happens. Adopted children have issues about their parents, there are children who's parents die, there are children who's parents divorce and they may not see one of the parents for years. There are also children who grow up in a two parent home that have issues.


My child isn't "doomed", my child is not a "victim". My child is happy, beautiful, wonderful and it's MM's loss. My child isn't missing out on anything right now and I'm going to do my best to keep it that way.

You can look at these children as "Doomed" all you want. I see my child as a beautiful blessing who will be loved and I will do my best to ensure a spectacular life.

Cheerfulone
Can I ask you something? Why would you have believed him? He's proven to be a lier from day one? Right? If he can disrespect his family/ his children this way..doesn't that say something about the "man"?

Also did you not realize that he had other obligations..other children? Did you not know that by you getting pregnant..somehow..in the long run that its going to affect his children...

Did either one of you even thought of the children that are already here? Yours and his?

I am not putting the blame on just one person..I am just saying that not only does the MM hurt his own family but the OW plays a big part in that too. They hurt the baby they are having and the children that are here.

Just curious though? What are you going to tell your child when they are grown?

Wizard, what has your husband told your oc? Just wondering. Granted you the child lives with you, but surely the child knows your not his mother right?

<small>[ October 03, 2004, 07:06 PM: Message edited by: needtomoveon ]</small>

I am a BW who just started posting on GQII. I am not trying to start any trouble, just asking a question that I think is being overlooked.

Wizard -- if you think the OW should have seen him for what he was -- a liar from day one -- why didn't you see him for what he was?

It was never up to the OW to look after you or your children. That was only your H's responsibility.

Cheerful is right on this one. Most MM tell the OW how wonderful it would be to have a child with them, how much they love them, yadda yadda yadda. Once D-day happens, they don't always tell the BW the whole story about the A. But, as you said, your H like all the other MM is a liar, so how can you believe what he tells you about his relationship with the OW? Plus, if he is trying to rebuild the marriage, he is not going to tell you all of the truth because he won't want to hurt you.

I believe that most OWs tell their children that "X" is your father. We had a relationship but it did not work out. That is really all there is to say. Married or not married -- does not change the basic fact that "X" is your father. And, whether or not your parents are married does not have to change the child's life.

It seems to me that some of the things you are laying at the OW's door, need to be laid at the H's feet.

"Just curious though? What are you going to tell your child when they are grown?"


That only MM can give a reason for his absence.


I'll tell my child my side of the story. That MM told me he was unhappy, that he told me his W was going to divorce him and she had kicked him out. That he turned to me- I did care for him and he cared for me (and our child). I'll explain that they ended up working things out and that is why he and I are not together.

But for explaining MM's absence in our child's life, it's ALL HIM. I can't and won't make any excuses for him.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I have seen fathers step up to take responsibility and the next thing you got on your hands is an out of control /controlling OW. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is the problem H had. He stepped up to help take care of his son, but OW wanted to be in total control of the situation. Everything had to be her way or no way. She got a rude awaking. She always told H that if he was ever to have visits with his son she would make sure it would be supervised, guess who is getting the supervised visits now??

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> . I am sadden that women would actually do this to their own children.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Right now OW is trying to take things out on H for H getting custody, but the only person she is hurting is her son. Oc wonders why he didn't have any clothes to wear, why he doesn't have his school supplies. Only because the mother and granparents wanted to stick it to H. Well lets just say Oc now has a nice new closet full of clothes, shoes that fit and a new backpack for school. All her little stunt did was make her look worse than she already did.

I forgot to address this:

"Can I ask you something? Why would you have believed him? He's proven to be a lier from day one? Right? If he can disrespect his family/ his children this way..doesn't that say something about the "man"?"


Very true. I did say to myself that I wouldn't let this get serious because he's obviously a cheater. If he cheated on his W, he would probably cheat on me. So DON'T GET SERIOUS. The rational side of me DID blare that into my head.

He told me he had never cheated before.

Then again, he told me a lot of things that ended up not being true. When you care about someone and resepct them, it's hard to fathom that they are lying to you.

When it came down to it, when I looked into his eyes I saw a wonderful man with a wonderful heart and soul who was in a tough situation. The "Lost Puppy Dog" syndrome if you will.

Then the d@mn dog bit me.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

<small>[ October 03, 2004, 08:45 PM: Message edited by: CheerfulLittleOne ]</small>

"Also did you not realize that he had other obligations..other children? Did you not know that by you getting pregnant..somehow..in the long run that its going to affect his children... "


His children with his W are his & his wife's responsibility.

If he had obligations to his children, then HE should have realized it and NOT started anything with me. It's HIS duty to take care of HIS children.

I can't MAKE him do anything. He CHOSE it. He CHOSE to be with me while he was married.

I was under the impression the marriage was falling apart and would be ending; that is what he led me to believe.

I did not plan the pregnancy.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by wizard:
<strong> Why would you have believed him? He's proven to be a lier from day one? Right? If he can disrespect his family/ his children this way..doesn't that say something about the "man"? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Exactly!!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by CheerfulLittleOne:
<strong> Some of us are told by MM that he loves the baby, wants the baby, will be a good dad to the baby. We are blindsided when he does the exact opposite because that is not how HE TOLD us things would be. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I’m butting in a bit because I have heard this over and over from women who have kids by men who “suddenly” decide that fatherhood isn’t in the cards for them. I know far too many women raising children alone who were never involved in EMAs and I see this a lot with single women who have children by single men who, once the stick turns blue suddenly opt out of fatherhood.

You say that he “said” all of these wonderful things about his intentions. I’ve heard friends lament the same thing about their children’s fathers. I always have one thing to ask – did his actions EVER back up his words?? Did he have a life or plans that said “I’m ready to step up and be a father to the child we created?”

Universally in my experience the answer has always been no. “He said he was ready and willing to father the child but NOTHING in his life – not his living situation, not his finances, relationships with his family, girlfriend – NOTHING could be looked at and viewed as “well yeah! This is a man ready to take on fatherhood!!”

Why are we so willing to go by what someone says – KNOWING that this someone is a liar to begin with – when there is nothing – zip, zero, zilch! – about his life that can privide one single shred of evidence to back up his words???

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by CheerfulLittleOne:
<strong> Sh*t happens. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No it doesn’t. Sh*t comes into our lives when we make decisions based on feelings instead of facts. And our kids have to deal with the fallout – and usually grow up to repeat the same bad choices that they watched their parent(s) make.

"Sh*t comes into our lives when we make decisions based on feelings instead of facts. "

Sure.

However, my feelings were attached to someone who LIED about the facts. I trusted him and that was my mistake.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by CheerfulLittleOne:
<strong> However, my feelings were attached to someone who LIED about the facts. I trusted him and that was my mistake. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Did you know he was a liar to begin with? If you knew he was married then odds are you knew this was a person who was comfortable with lying to the people closest to him - his wife, children and family. How can you trust or "be fooled by" lies told by someone you know is an admitted and flagrant liar?

"I was under the impression the marriage was falling apart and would be ending; that is what he led me to believe."
This statement really inferiorates me!! Even if he did say that, was it still morally right for you to sleep with him? Even if it he said it was falling apart, he is still MARRIED!!! I can't believe the people out there who don't believe marriage vows are sacred! I am not taking up for ws, he is equally wrong. However, ow seem to think that they can justify what they did by saying wh says things were bad at home , he was going to leave....blah, blah, blah...Heard it all before!! Not believing it. However, I do firmly beleive that one day all will have to answer for the judgements they have made, and he said, she said, won't cut it. That's why I am trying to make room for oc in my life, because I don't want to face the consequences of one day being asked, why was this child without a father, and a finger being pointed at me!

<small>[ October 03, 2004, 09:47 PM: Message edited by: yelodazee ]</small>

"was it still morally right for you"

I know that wasn't the entire sentence, but it's the KEY phrase.

I choose what's morally right for me, just as everyone else in the world chooses their moral standards.

"Did you know he was a liar to begin with?"

No.

By the time I realized that he lied to his W, he had me convinced that he wasn't going to lie to me, that somehow "I" was different.

Once again, my mistake for believing him.

My H's OW knew he was married and had children. Still it did not stop her in becoming pregnate. She wanted a baby.

She did not have any concern for my children or me. However neither did my H who's 2 mistakes ruined the way our lives are viewed forever.

I do not blame her for wanting a child as I did before I had mine, I do blame her for getting involved with a married man. I also blame my H for not making good decisions.

Lori

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Some of us are told by MM that he loves the baby, wants the baby, will be a good dad to the baby. We are blindsided when he does the exact opposite because that is not how HE TOLD us things would be. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">BLINDSIDED!!! WOW! USING THAT WORD IN CONNECTION WITH THE OW-- well thats A REAL PARADOX, JUST ABSURD. I got a laugh-out-loud out of that one.

Maybe in high school a guy tells a girl he loves her - they "fall in love" are "soul mates"-- he steals her heart, sleeps with her, then dumps her. That may be considered blindsided because they are immature and they follow their LUST and mistake it for LOVE. We are not in high school anymore!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Did you miss the class on WHAT A MISTRESS IS TOLD: He's leaving, she's leaving, he's unhappy, we are soul mates, we are in "love", its not just "sex".. Your believing that based on his DIRECT CURRENT SITUAION OF LYING TO WIFE AND FAMILY AND SNEAKING, CHEATING, ETC. makes you completely responsible for his lying to you also!! You are also responsible for not getting what you wanted out of it.

AS A WOMAN, did you also miss the class on: HOW TO AVOID GETTING USED, PREGNANT AND DUMPED by a man who has shown no SIGNS, just WORDS of his commitment to you.

Its sad that many OW suffer from issues or are needy/have low enough self esteem to accepted a MM as a sex partner! I hope having this child who is affected now, will help them remember from now on where taking the bate too easily or being too horny can and WILL get a woman. We DO hold the KEY to life as women! YOU SAY "NO" to men because they WILL take advantage!! They WILL easily and gladly sleep with a women who they do not love. Men will and DO OFTEN leave us holding the bag! when we sleep with STRANGERS OR WITH MARRIED MEN? Since when WERE men known for falling instantly in love with their side dish's or quick-lay's child. They are wired differently. They do not have the instincts we do, and do not have to carry the child. Its just the way life has always has been, fair or unfair!

P.S. WHEN I SAY "MEN" I DO NOT REFER TO ANY MAN WHO IS NOT WHAT WE WOMEN REFER TO "TYPICAL" LOL! SOME OF YOU ARE NOT ANYTHING AS I DESCRIBED SO PLEASE DO NOT TAKE OFFENSE! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

<small>[ October 04, 2004, 11:05 AM: Message edited by: giovanna123 ]</small>

I choose what's morally right for me, just as everyone else in the world chooses their moral standards.

cheerful those words exactly is whats wrong with society these days. There is plenty of people like you contributing to the downfall of the true meaning of family. Yes the MM has equal responsibility, and I dont expect you to try and convince these woman here that you've redeemed yourself, because you won't and you don't have too. You will answer to someone and that will be God, and you will get yours, if your not paying for it already. I think you did do your child wrong, I wouldnt say doomed, but let me tell you something.. Since I stopped living with my babys dad, and occasinally still I cry at night, because I feel so utterly guilty. I never did my bf wrong, I try to follow god's words, but I strayed I made a mistake by sleeping with my bf after not even knowing him more than a month, and he convinced me to have his baby. I have been blessed with a beautiful daughter and a good career, but still I feel so bad at times because even though it's her father that meesed up. I feel liek I cheated her. I cheated her out of having a whole family. if only I had really gotten to knwo what her father was about. So if I who have never been married and have a child...somewhere down there I know you have to feel that maybe you didnt doom your child, but your "morality" allowed this to happen.