And before anyone says that we as BS are also in the same boat.. believed our husband, etc...

WE had a reason to: he DID marry us. We DO have a whole life of love and family. We as BSs ARE BLINDSIDED... No lack of communication, unhappiness, etc. makes you believe he is cheating when there IS NO proof, no signs. Every marriage has periods of unhappiness/problems- does not mean you think he is cheating.

Its bad enough I know he slept with someone other than me-- GROSS, EEW YUK- let alone, accepting it and without protection- TRIPLE GROSS EEW YUK. We didn't get the CHOICE to veto the dirty bastage when he was cheating.

My H has been begging for a child for 5 years. Too bad he started that *after* we agreed when dating that we had a wonderful, young full house already... HOWEVER.. do you think I will do that? HECK NO !! Why, cause I could not call it BLINDSIDED if he decides to cheat again and/or leave or M falls apart. See- we CAN be smart women!!!! Even as a wife I say NO WAY buddy!

<small>[ October 04, 2004, 11:14 AM: Message edited by: giovanna123 ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by CheerfulLittleOne:
<strong>
His children with his W are his & his wife's responsibility.

If he had obligations to his children, then HE should have realized it and NOT started anything with me. It's HIS duty to take care of HIS children.

I can't MAKE him do anything. He CHOSE it. He CHOSE to be with me while he was married.

I did not plan the pregnancy. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I hear this from a few other women...... this is not exactly directed towards the person that said it but I wanted to add my .02

Good point MM has a track record of not taking care of his "children" SO then why believe him?

Why think he will take care of your child? I am sure he told his wife and children he would love to be with them forever and take care of them as well.

You knew that MM breaking up his children's home and family was not in the best interest of his children and that at that point he was a selfish person only interested in his own satisfaction at the time by commiting adultery-with an equally self serving individual.

And you chose to be with him while he was married you cant control him BUT you sure as hell can control YOU.
If you knew you would keep a Man from his children by spending those stolen moments with him that he should prob be spending with his children then you should maybe(morally) have felt that maybe a single man (a free man) would be a better choice for you.
So if he lets say stayed with you and and became part of you childs life but all of a sudden became too "busy" to be with your child more and more till your child rarely saw the "father" and you knew that he was off with another woman that he deemed more important that your child and she knew as well that he is spending all his spare time with her in lue of your baby(his own flesh and blood)HOW WOULD YOU FEEL?

I know that I would feel like CRAP and If I was that woman..once I found out I would cut off all contact with him WHY? because who wants to be with a man that would dis his own children for a piece of a$$.

If he easily disses his own flesh and blood at the drop of a hat then what the heck will he do to me down the road?

Just some thoughts I wanted to point out to any OW or OM for that matter. Things that would keep me from ever thinking about getting in any relationship with a married person.
Makes ya go hmmmmmmmmmm

well said Cordelia.

Thank you I appreciate that.
I just wish that people could learn from the mistakes of others, and try to give a rational point of view to consider.

"because who wants to be with a man that would dis his own children for a piece of a$$. "


Apparently a lot of women. Isn't that what this support board is for?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by CheerfulLittleOne:
<strong> "because who wants to be with a man that would dis his own children for a piece of a$$. "


Apparently a lot of women. Isn't that what this support board is for? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I see your taking offense......your not in the same catagory as a knowing participant in an adulterous affair, of a Betrayed Spouse that found out her Wayward husband was commiting adultery way after the fact.... after she and her husband had commited to one another before all in a ceremony to building a life together, creating wanted children, and making her choice to be with a single free available man that had no obligations other than her and thier children.

So when the woman or man that signed the contract(marriage cert) to raise a family and stay with one another forever, try to HONOR the commitment they entered guilt free and willingly it's not the same after all they didnt knowingly do it in secret or deceit.

(they are trying to keep the family they both promised to nurish and raise together intact).

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by CheerfulLittleOne:
<strong>I choose what's morally right for me, just as everyone else in the world chooses their moral standards. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Sorry, I don't think you can file "sleeping with married person" under "Moral Standards." <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

CLO, are you building a marriage or relationship?

If not, please go away. People like you are the reason I don't come here very often.

I have never really read these boards before. I only came here at the suggestion of another poster, as my marital woes are not the result of an adulterer but a pitiful man who is too lazy to try. That said, I'd like to add my $.02, if I may.

I disagree totally with everyone who says that the H is equally wrong. He is way more wrong than that. He is the one who promises to stay true and faithful to us...never lie and never cheat. His trifling [censored] promised this in front of God and still did it. What kinda person lies to God? However I do believe that the OW are wrong as well. Wrong to us wives and very wrong to themselves. I will never understand why people would willingly set themselves up like that. If someone showed you a nice car that you loved, told you that they didn't really want it but have the option of coming back for it later. Would you still drive it know that there is a possibility that the original owner may be returning for it and you could quite possible have to give it up? It’s almost like trying to buy a rental. You know that it belongs to someone else but you still care for it and pamper it like it’s yours. Why would you invest time and money into that kinda situation? I know that they often say that it's over and nothing is ever going to change but wouldn't a wise or at least a thinking person want to make sure they have the deal in writing before investing?

This is coming from a woman who has learned her lesson. I was never with a married man but I got involved with a guy who eventually went back to his ex-GF. That hurt bad enough. I couldn't imagine having to go thru that with a MM. I mean you spend all of this time hating the OW (or I guess main woman in this instance) with him, only for them to tell (show) you in the end that she was a lot better than he let on. Now this woman who was a horrible lay, bad person, bad wife (GF), horrible mother, lazy, nasty, nagging ***** is put on a pedestal like she is as good as gold. The same woman you yelled "Get over it, he loves me now." to, now gets to say that to you. Now he does everything in his power to try to erase you like you were a bad dream. I'll never know why women do that to themselves.

Truth of the matter is these men are STILL married whether he and his wife hate each other and carry out a real life War of the Roses on a daily basis. I would guess a wise person would know better than to involve themselves in that madness. I mean you would never eat a cake before it's done baking. You wouldn't sample chicken before it's done cooking. You know that it will harm your stomach and could possibly kill you. Why would you think any less of your heart? Also if you would do this to another woman, whatever would make you think that you could have a happy life or marriage with him or anyone else for that matter? Karma is a *****!

Also I must say that I agree with CheerfulLittleOne when she says that we all chose what is moral for us. Let's not forget that many things (like fornication) we over look and condone; yet it is very morally wrong to have sex before one is married. I definitely don't agree with sleeping with a MM but as most of us don’t agree with that many others do not agree with the fact that most of us did not wait til we were married to be with our H. I think that is what she meant by that statement.

Cheerfulllittle one. You need to get out of the world of denial and face the facts. YOU got pregnant and it was YOUR choice to raise a child without a father. PERIOD. That man was married and already had obligations to his children. While it takes two to tango, those same two are not allowed to make a decision once there is a pregnancy. That is 100% the CHOICE of the female. So YOU CHOSE to have a fatherless child. You can whine and justify all you want, the bottom line was you were with a married man. Now if YOUR morals allow for that as ok behavior, then I don't see why you would have a problem with the MM walking away from the biggest mistake he has ever had.

Now lets talk about what the oc will learn. If our oc ever comes here, he will be told the truth. That he was the product of an illicit affair and that my husband didn't want to lose his wife and chose no contact. PERIOD. It is plain and simple and truthfull. Although I believe that the hysterical way that most OW act and the bittnerss they whine about will certainly explain things to them as they mature. It won't be hard for some 17 year old, in the throws of first love to figure out what mom was. I wonder what these ow are going to tell their own daughters when they come home some night with a broken heart cause their husbands cheated?

The MM owes child support and that is it. SHould they want contact, that is a choice too. However, the OW is never ever without blame for the child ending up fatherless. That is a choice.

And as for liars and whatnot. Well, yes the MM is a liar. But the ow is complicit in that also. Like I said earlier, if you allow a friend to drive drunk and he kills/hurts somebody, what does that make you? Or is that not your problem?

OW also have to get over the thought process on how the MM should be daddy to their children. Not ever considering the harm it could create in his family. If his children are embarrassed or upset by it then what? They are to be harmed more so oc feels better? Not bloody likely. Hard decisions have to be made. Lots of people get hurt. Two people are to blame. The ow does not have to look father then her own mirror when she wonders why her child is fatherless.

I have no sympathy for OW who whine about no contact, or how their child is a victim, etc. This is what THEY CHOSE for themselves and their child. PERIOD. Do you honestly think the MM should be thrilled to have an oc and that his family would really want oc to come and visit every other weekend? Can you really not grasp the fact that they choose no contact with the child cause of your usually, unrealistic demands? Can't you really understand just what you are to them? Do you not realize that their children see you as a whore? That while you play your games and whine, your child is growing up and someday, your oc will be older and the BC may see OC and call him a [censored]? Maybe that is "morally acceptable" to them to see your child as a [censored]. Is that horrifying to you? Do you not know that most people will see an ow who is comfortable with her morals as horrifying?

So get off your know it all crap attitude and take your plaintive wail to other sites who will coddle and agree with everything you want them to.

This board is for people in marriages who are dealing with oc and oc. What is best for ow/oc is a moot point here as they don't matter to what is best for the marriage and the family. Why is that so hard to comprehend? If a MM and his wife are going to stay together it is none of your business. That is THEIR choice. If they choose visitation with the oc THAT DOES NOT INCLUDE YOU. If they chose no contact with oc that is THEIR CHOICE. They, as a family do not have to make decisions with you in mind.

I feel sorry for oc's cause you just know that a day is going to come, no matter what mommy said, that the realization of what happened will dawn on them. Mom was obviously "morally challenged". How embarrassing. And yes, the Children of the marriage get to realize that dad was a jerk. But at least she was able to grow up seeing how me took responsiblity for his mitake and did right by his family. And before you start whining about how he "abandoned" the oc, yada yada yada, she doesn't see it like that. She is THANKFULL that she never had to deal with oc and the Jerry Springer aspect of it all. She does not know oc and does not want to know oc.

So quite looking through your "ow colored" glasses and realize their are two sides to this issue and yours certainly does not supercede the MM/BW/BC. NO WAY. The wife and her children are just as much victims as the oc.

Lynn,
I think maybe you have me confused with someone else.

The MM who fathered my baby said he WAS going to be a father to his child, then changed his mind after the baby was born. HE SAID abortion was NOT the right solution. WE made the choice to have this baby. I did not choose to have a fatherless child because the baby WAS going to have a father who played an active role. The father just "changed his mind" after the fact.

I don't recall writing anything pertaining to OC rights or OW rights. I would not declare such an opinion on THIS board (give me some credit).

I also haven't written anything about how MM needs to be a father to our child. I'm enjoying the NC. It's less of a hassle for sure. What I stated was that HE SAID he would be a father, then changed his mind later.

I also did not write one word about OC or OW being a victim. If you have read any of my posts, you would see that I stated that MY child is not a victim. You can claim whatever title you want for you and your children. My child and I are NOT going to play victims.

Also, for some reason, you are under the impression that my child will NOT be told the truth. What I said is that I will tell MY SIDE OF THE STORY. That DOES NOT mean I am going to lie. You surely know that there ARE two sides to every story. Your side of the story is true for you and your H. I can only give MY side of the story, which does NOT include WHY MM & W were not involved. Only MM & W can answer that if my child ever asks them. My side of the story pertains to the relationship between my child's father and I (The only thing that should matter to our child).

The fact is, my child will not be embarrassed for MY morals. I will have raised that child. There will be respect. My child will have RAGE for a man who walked away. My child will be an EXCELLENT parent after knowing what it feels like NOT HAVING A FATHER WHO CARES.

I'm not quite certain of your age Lynn, but check with the new times- Single Parenting is the way of America now. Independent, career oriented SINGLE MOM's are EVERYWHERE.

In ten years, all of your views on "[censored]" and morals will be in the history books. Look at society. Gays everywhere- that used to be WORSE than affairs. Now they can get married. Tattoo's on businessmen. Facial Piercings on your nurse. Sex shops next to grade schools. CONDOMS being passed out to sixth grade students.

Lynn, there are people out there that DON'T CARE if a parent is raising their child solo. Just because you do care about OTHER PEOPLES' morals pertaining to sex, doesn't mean everyone else in America does.

<small>[ October 05, 2004, 06:02 PM: Message edited by: CheerfulLittleOne ]</small>

The fact is, my child will not be embarrassed for MY morals. I will have raised that child. There will be respect.

respect for ???.... finish the sentence...

My child will have RAGE for a man who walked away.

How so? Are you saying you can turn-on your child's emotional responses like a switch?

My child will be an EXCELLENT parent after knowing what it feels like NOT HAVING A FATHER WHO CARES.

Usually, sadly, the opposite occurs. There is a much higher chance of early sexual acting out amongst kids who have no parent because there was never a marriage or a real relationship. Particularly if the child being raised is male and has no father-figure. And especially if the male child is being raised to feel "RAGE" about his situation.

Interesting point of view here, one that will not be too comforting to the child in the 3rd grade as he is making a construction-paper family tree.

You may want to rethink some of this, perhaps think of drawing your child a road map to a successful peace-filled life rather than a road map of rage. Why wish "RAGE" upon your child's mind? Why not wish peace and harmony instead?

Pep

I'm sorry Pepperband, I didn't quite catch how long you have been dealing with an OC situation?


Thanks for your thoughts though.

"Cheerfulllittle one. You need to get out of the world of denial and face the facts. YOU got pregnant and it was YOUR choice to raise a child without a father. PERIOD"

Wow...Lynne G. I kind of assumed you were the kind of person who would be "offended" by the idea of an abortion. Just my assumption of course.

What I don't understand is.....if you had the choice to terminate this pregnancy between MM and OW....would you do it?

Or would your beliefs keep you from doing it?

ent

Originally posted by CheerfulLittleOne:
I'm sorry Pepperband, I didn't quite catch how long you have been dealing with an OC situation?

This is the marriage-builders site. I am a marriage-builder. If I can help you with aspects of your marriage, it will be my great pleasure to do so.

We are happily married 23 years. We recovered from an A and have had 8 (almost 9) years of sucessful marriage-building since the A.

Our 2 teenage kids are both adopted. There are tons of issues that go with the adoption experience... and one of our kids experienced terrible RAGE about his birth mother. His RAGE was not healthy for him. RAGE takes a terrible toll on the body.

If you truely wish RAGE upon the mind of your child, then I think you need some counseling.

If you want your child to grow up happy and well-adjusted, please re-think this position about the harmful effects that RAGE has on a human body, mind, and spirit.

If it is actually your rage that you are experiencing, and have fantasies you'd like to pass that emotional baggage along to your child in order to punish the child's bio-dad, I beg you to reconsider!

I can see that you have suffered a terrible disappointment in life, but one which you can certainly recover from, and go forward to lead a good and happy life. But RAGE in your mind and heart will burn a hole inside of you. Please stop hurting yourself this way.

Do the best you can with your life, and live with peace in your home.

Pep

The fact is, my child will not be embarrassed for MY morals. I will have raised that child. There will be respect.

respect for ???.... finish the sentence...

I want you to really think about this ....

WHAT is it you would like your child to grow up respecting?

This is a very good thing, respect. WHAT values will you teach your child to respect?

Pep

I'm sorry CheerfulLittleOne, I didn't quite catch how long you have been rebuilding your marriage..

cheerfulllittleone......it's a lost cause they will never see your side....trust me been there done that.........HEY IT"S YOUR TURN GIRL!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> There very own sisters could be raising a child on there own and brag them up and down and turn around and say this to you. BTW.........I hope you don't mind me bringing this up........but her oldest son is in the GATE program at school......anyone of you guys hear of that? It's for the really really smart kids!!!!! And Peperband.............I'll finish it for her......just because she had an affair does not mean she has not learned from it and will teach her kids to do that. You knew the answer to that. She will explain to her child the same way you explained to your child and that you have forgiven there father and this is what a family is all about. Do you always have to think the worst of the ow? Your husbands were doing the exact same thing and JUST because the ow chooses to keep her child she is a worthless person who does not deserve to make new choices (as the mm did) and have a normal good life. PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!

And Peperband.............I'll finish it for her......just because she had an affair does not mean she has not learned from it and will teach her kids to do that. You knew the answer to that. She will explain to her child the same way you explained to your child and that you have forgiven there father and this is what a family is all about. Do you always have to think the worst of the ow? Your husbands were doing the exact same thing and JUST because the ow chooses to keep her child she is a worthless person who does not deserve to make new choices (as the mm did) and have a normal good life. PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!

?? whatthehellareyoutalkingabout??

I just offered to help her recover her marriage. If she is not married, then help her recover her relationship...
I pointed out an area where I feel she is dragging her anger and rage into the home to pass it on to her child... because this is what she SAID she was going to do!

I did not say any of the inflamatory comments you alluded to. (ie; worthless)

I asked her what she will teach her child to respect ... is there anything insulting about this question that is not apparent to me?

Respect for what? For education? For honesty? It is a question, not an attack. Get a grip on yourself, and relax a little.

Pep

Your right Pep you did not use the word worthless. But it came across as much in my eyes. It just seems that you have our children (i e you I mean in general here) doomed once we explain to our kids what happened. What gets me is you guys are always saying when you tell the child the truth. Well guess what someone else was invovled in that too at some point. And the truth lies on both people. Not just one. If you think your going to make a child feel any better by saying "I chose" my other kids and wife over you......as I did NOT want you.......what the heck is that saying? You just mentioned yourself about your child that has the problems coping with her birth mother. IT HAPPENS and you deal with it in the best way you can to teach your kids and show your kids you love them unconditionaly. Thats as parents we are suppose to do. Do you agree?