"Most here who have chosen N/C are doing BETTER than those who did."

If you don't have contact, how do you know you are doing better? Duh?

"Most who have chosen to allow their H to have their cake and eat it too have gone on to divorce."

Really?! I deal strictly in facts...not suppositions. This sounds like pure speculation.


"Most who had chosen C do not post as they have dissolved their marriage and no longer post here."

A marriage is only as strong as it was BEFORE the affair. If there were problems before....then the affair only amplifies them. Personally, I believe NC is a "cakeman" idea.
"Cakeman" has only to walk away from the "mess" he created. Maybe shelling out a few bucks along the way....but away he goes.

ent

Ent, did you seperate from H after dday,A/OC or what have you?

What did you go through before you became united w/H in his decision for C, etc.

Do you mind refreshing me, I don't remember?

EXCUSE ME, Ent
But "THEY" OW & MM CREATED "THIS MESS"
As it takes"2" to "Tango"!!!
As I keep saying OW ceases being a "VICTIM"
when she finds out MM is "Married", it then became her choice to continue or not.
My H's affair was only a couple of weeks,
when we were seperated and she as a "friend"(lol)
of "ours "said she was going to help "us", what H did is his fault also, however if your a "REAL FRIEND"
you help a person ,not take advantage of someone who is emotionally and psycolgically having promblems (H) as was the case with our ow.

<small>[ October 07, 2004, 08:17 AM: Message edited by: angels1966 ]</small>

Entwife, you need to get a grip.

The bickering on here is when to ow are whining about what the oc is called, or when the couple choses no contact and all. Really, what goes on in that marriage is none of ow damm business. GET IT. BW do not need to become doormats for the ow and oc. NO WAY.

The whole point I make is for the MARRIAGE. What is best for the couple and their children. The ow/oc are hardly a consideration in what they decide. HOW CAN YOU NOT UNDERSTAND THAT?

Or do you believe that the couple should inclued the ow/oc in their decisions? Get real. That is simply the dumbest thing I have ever heard. Why would a bw want or care what the ow wants?

I think your message sounds like "shame on any BW who does not consider the OW feelings...." or "what is best for the oc should come at any cost" You could care less about BW and BC.

Get real. These women need to stand up for what the want and need. They need to discuss THEIR MARRIAGE with THEIR husbands. They do not have to waste time on what ow/oc feel or think.

I think that is important for BW to know.

To ENT,

Sorry, u r definitely living on a daily basis in a "FOG".

...a marriage is only as strong as it was BEFORE the Affair....the affair just only amplifies them...

SO NOT TRUE....but, but, but, but.....
What kind of comment is that??? Why are u even writing anything here???? Yes everyone is entitled to there opinions.... We are here to deal with problems not create more. If you know in your heart that your answers are not going to help anyone, but only to hurt...do us all a favor, and keep them to yourself.

This is really getting out of hand.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So now you are going to attack women who chose to do what is good for them. By having contact with the OC?! I wonder where all the bickering comes from? HMmmmmmm..... </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">AND YOU are doing the same to us- attack OUR NEED AND DECISION for NC. Do you see the trend in most all of our lives here, in most all of the OW's lives, in real life-- MOST ARE NOT ABLE TO HANDLE CONTACT. Do you get that THE MAJORITY deal with THIS SITUATION the same way- THEY DON'T because IT IS TOO PAINFUL and CORRUPTS THE MARRIAGE for years to come after the A.

IF YOU Ent, feel that we are so wrong- and I know you do - then just keep getting and giving support THOSE OW WHO DO support YOU!! YOU FEEL it is okay when OW ATTACKS every other person WHO IS DOING WHAT IS BEST FOR THEM, as you say above!!!!

And IF YOU DECIDED to support your H in the contact issue- did it happen overnight- did you have to work it out and did H work it out HIS OWN AND YOUR OWN ISSUES on YOUR OWN TIME and in YOUR OWN WAY? Yes, YOU DID. SO ARE WE. Sometimes H HAS TO DO WHAT HE HAS TO DO-- and sometimes it DOES NOT UNFORTUNATELY BENEFIT OC.

It IS too hard on cakemen like your and my husband WERE- but some men are NOT ABLE TO emotionally deal with wearing a T-shirt right now that says "I CHEATED ON MY WIFE- HERE IS OW's AND MY BABY" And GUESS WHAT-- the OW DOESN'T HAVE TO WEAR A TSHIRT that says "MY BABY-DADDY IS MARRIED!!" Sorry, but they either lie and say its H or they say he's just "not around"... so THEY have no idea what a man goes thru who is TRULY REMORSEFUL AND LOVES HIS FAMILY!!!!

I AM PROUD that my H needs and wants to FILL MINE AND MY CHILDREN'S NEEDS FIRST. If OC's needs were being serviced at the COST OF ME AND MY KIDS-- well, then, OW WOULD BE PROUD that HE WAS SERVICING OC's NEEDS FIRST....

In your family, ALL OF YOUR NEEDS AND WANTS AND THRESHOLDS for pain matched up and were worked out- GREAT!!!!!! Not COMMONLY EVER THE CASE. I COMMEND and am HAPPY for anyone who accomplishes this!

Hello,

Gio123, u r right....I know for a fact that the OW in my situation doesn't let anyone know OC was conceived by a MM...no, she takes it to the next level,, by lying to anyone who will listen and that doesn't know the truth, ...she simply says, oh he is divorced, or he is separated from his wife, he left her.....the lies go on and on....this just proves how alot of OW's STILL HAVE HOPE of making there mess into a family with the very same MM. I think "some" of them feel this will erase the guilt and shame, by having their so-called prize at the end...the MM, leaving his wife, and getting together with them (OW&OC) so they can be a family....has anyone ever heard of Karma??? ...what about, what goes around comes around???....

Story:
I know a MM who decided to cheat on his wife. Him and his wife had 2 children...well, the OW got pregnant, and went on to have 3 children by this MM (he started living with her because his wife kicked him out after she found out about the OC...he never divorced his wife, and his wife didn't feel she should pay for divorce...another story))...anyway, the OW's family was totally against this...they begged her to leave MM alone
but she didn't listen...well the end of the story is??? Do I see any hands raised to answer this question????? This same MM, went on to cheat with numerous other women, and OW found out...caught him in there bed, in there home, doing the do!!!
So, she had to save face, and kick him out also...3 kids later....when will anyone learn.

Now...why did OW think things would be different with her? What goes around 'sometimes' comes around...I am not trying to be mean, I am just telling everybody to wake up.

Just my 2 cents, again.

I've got a karma story! In high school one of my best friends dad had left her mom for another woman. Her mom was devestated to say the least. Not long after she and I had graduated HS her step mom is pregnant, they have a boy. My friend is a bit shocked seeing as how she's in her early 20's with a brother 20 years her senior already. When the little boy is 3, her step mom discovers that her H has a 4 year old little girl with another woman. He comes home one day to see his clothes and possessions flying out of the upstairs windows.

Maybe she thought she was special and it could never happen to her too? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Ent wife, for someone who was betrayed, you sure hold alot of esteem for the OW and lots of contempt for bw. Wonder why?

LynnG,

I think I have been wondering the same thing? it just seems rather odd. All of this bickering has gotten everyone off of the subject of working on their marriages. If you are not involved in a M and have know idea how it feels to be betrayed by H with OW/OC then why post here.

The women that I now call friends are now gone from this site because of the uncomfortable feelings they have encountered. This is sad. They no longer feel safe to vent, talk, listen, advise, or just communicate here. I can now see why.

I thought this forum was to help one another and not judge the other for whatever reason. Different point of views are allowed, but why bash someone else fo their's or if it is not helpful why post it? What is wrong with you girls/guys this is suppose to bond us together not tear us apart.

I don't know about anyone else, but I am having life altering feelings and issues that I am scared to death of not making it through them in one piece. I don't need to hear this on a daily basis - it is not helping me at all. This site was my solace where I turned for comfort and help because there was none at home. Now you have taken that from me, and my kids. What about those who feel the same as I do? what about their families, this is not a soap opera this is their life - REAL LIFE!!

Stop it please! You may be hindering someone else who really needs this help - what if they are at the end of their rope - Don't you think this would be discouraging to them. How can we support, uplift, teach, and comfort one another if all we do is argue all the time. we are getting away from the real issues here and it is hurting a lot of people.

Wake up the name of the site says it all!!

MARRIAGE BUILDERS!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

If I can't get help then why be here?
JT <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

<small>[ October 07, 2004, 05:05 PM: Message edited by: JT2 ]</small>

Lynne G.
That's where you are wrong. My OW? I don't talk to her. H's job to deal with HER. But I also don't go out of my way to start problems. She stays on her side of the fence....I stay on mine. So far....so good.

H and I have worked on the boundary issues with OW. She seems to understand them now. Not at first which caused some trouble during the first month.

I firmly believe what MY family has done is the right thing for us. Not for everyone but for us. I just don't think it is right (in my opinion), for the OC to be discarded. My OC? She is a beautiful, sweet, slightly spoiled little girl. I have pics at my job at my desk of her along with my other children. When people ask....I tell the truth. Sure...H is uncomfortable. But he does the same also....tells the truth of OC's birth. Lying is what got him in trouble to begin with.

But amazingly? He has had so many people tell him of "their" stories. Be they BS, OW, and adult OC's. Most of them are incredulous that I have accepted OC as my own daughter. Why? OC was not anymore responsible for what happened than I or my children were. I guess I am blessed (lucky) to be able to do so. God has blessed me with calm and grace.

I don't try to start a fight with people. But I will offer a different opinion, even if I know I am going to get slammed. Because I believe it just might help someone.

ent

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by JT2:
<strong> LynnG,

I think I have been wondering the same thing? it just seems rather odd. All of this bickering has gotten everyone off of the subject of working on their marriages. If you are not involved in a M and have know idea how it feels to be betrayed by H with OW/OC then why post here.

The women that I now call friends are now gone from this site because of the uncomfortable feelings they have encountered. This is sad. They no longer feel safe to vent, talk, listen, advise, or just communicate here. I can now see why.

I thought this forum was to help one another and not judge the other for whatever reason. Different point of views are allowed, but why bash someone else fo their's or if it is not helpful why post it? What is wrong with you girls/guys this is suppose to bond us together not tear us apart.

I don't know about anyone else, but I am having life altering feelings and issues that I am scared to death of not making it through them in one piece. I don't need to hear this on a daily basis - it is not helping me at all. This site was my solace where I turned for comfort and help because there was none at home. Now you have taken that from me, and my kids. What about those who feel the same as I do? what about their families, this is not a soap opera this is their life - REAL LIFE!!

Stop it please! You may be hindering someone else who really needs this help - what if they are at the end of their rope - Don't you think this would be discouraging to them. How can we support, uplift, teach, and comfort one another if all we do is argue all the time. we are getting away from the real issues here and it is hurting a lot of people.

Wake up the name of the site says it all!!

MARRIAGE BUILDERS!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

If I can't get help then why be here?
JT <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Ent,

I guess I could see your point, but I want us to get back to the basics of helping one another that is what is important isn't it? I miss that - the comradery (msp?).

<small>[ October 07, 2004, 05:12 PM: Message edited by: JT2 ]</small>

Ent,

Sorry, I thought u were an OW making those comments earlier, not that it should matter one way or the other...nevertheless, I still would of responded the same way. I did not know your situation until u just posted it.

I am glad that u found it in your heart to do what u r doing. U have humbled yourself. Good for u! I just hope that everyone can find some kind of peace, and not denial, in dealing with these situations.

Every situation is different...perhaps your OW is cooperating with u & your H in your wishes in dealing w/ OC. Alot of the OW's are not as easy to deal with...they are demanding, and use the OC for whatever reasons they see fit...I am not saying that all OW's are like that, but some are. Like I said, every situation is different, with different outcomes, etc. That is why we have this board so we can share our experiences - good and bad - with everyone, and hopefully our experiences and knowledge will be instrumental in actually helping someone else.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
Originally posted by entwifejmr:
My OW? I don't talk to her. H's job to deal with HER.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Do you ever wonder if their romantic feelings could re-kindle with this unsupervised contact between former affair-lovers?

Harley firmly believes unsupervised contact of any sort has a potential increased risk of restarting the affair... even years later.

How have you and your H POJA'd this situation so your marriage is protected?

Pep

Defintely....he knows what I can and can't deal with. Dealing with her is what upsets me. Big Time!

No, I don't worry about them rekindling anything. He sees OW in a different light. She admitted to him she became pregnant on purpose. That was a HUGE turning point for him. Plus....hehe.....He's fixed....neutered....

That was so important to me. One of his 3 promises he had to fulfill for our marriage to become whole again.

ent

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
No, I don't worry about them rekindling anything. He sees OW in a different light. She admitted to him she became pregnant on purpose. That was a HUGE turning point for him. Plus....hehe.....He's fixed....neutered....

That was so important to me. One of his 3 promises he had to fulfill for our marriage to become whole again.

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What were the other 2 promises?

I frankly don't see how your H getting a vasectomy protects you from the possibility of his affections for OW rekindling. Care to make that clearer to me, so I (we, the rest of the board) can understand this as a POJA'd rule of protection from another affair?

OW admitting to your H that she became pregnant on purpose might turn him off to her, however, the mind of an unfaithful spouse has very little logic~ (duh)! It could also be seen as a love-bank-deposit ---> twisted WH thinking sometimes goes like this ---> "Look what a huge risk OW was willing to take. She must really love me a lot to take this risk." .... Disgusting? Yes. Possible senario ? Yes, unfortunately.

I'm not sure how you are going to manage the next 18 years and beyond never having to speak with OW. When the OC is older, won't there be social events that you may attend while OW is there too? Like ceremonies, etc.
Pep

<small>[ October 08, 2004, 10:22 AM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>

Seems to me that making your H get "fixed" has nothing to do with protecting your M from an A. Like saying "its okay, as long as you don't get anyone pregnant again"...

I know I don't look at OW scenarios as an "ex" situation. My H has 2 children w/his ex, and I have one too, and neither of us have never had any problem w/the other dealing with the ex. Besides, if my H talked to OW without me, it would just leave that little bit of chance for *me* to imagine things and possibly act out due to that overactive imagination. I never had the insecurity thing about xOW cause he already broke it off w/her about a month before he came back home. It was truly a short summer "fling" without the scary "I love you" stuff that others have to deal with. It is also a respect issue. I would want xOW to know that she will never have a convo w/H that I am not present for, period. Especially since in our one convo she kept ignoring me at first and saying "this is none of your business" Oh okay. So maybe its p*ssing on my territory? Maybe, but he actually loves to see me get the "he's mine" attitude! LOL!

I'm sick of the fighting too but I do like to understand what some of the OW think about C/NC and sometimes get their perspectives.

Ent, however, I feel spends to much of her time sucking up to the OW on that "other" board. Yes, I read there on occassion and it seems to me that her biggest concern isn't helping anyone HERE but impressing the women other THERE w/ her decision on having C. like she's a saint or something. I feel if a BS and WS choose C or NC together than thats all that matters. Just b/c you've choosen C doesn't make you a better woman or your marriage better than anyone else. Same goes in reverse.

Contact, like abortion or adoption is a personal choice to make. Aftering finding out Ent posted about something PRIVATE from her "club" of friends I will not trust her and will question her motives. Its not about her having contact or not or about having a difference of opinion but about being trustworthy with your friends. Not cool in my book no matter what to take something from HERE over to THERE.

Gwenie